EVs

[giant_mtb]

Not really- most autos coast without any engine braking. 

This is so insanely incorrect.  Try your own test...go 25mph in gear and let off the gas and coast.  Then do the same but pop it into neutral when you let off. Guess which version of events will coast further/faster.

Your guess will be the complete opposite of correct because apparently engine braking in automatica doesn't exist and the trans is always pushing you forward.

[CaminoRacer]

Some new cars do freewheel coast, especially in "eco" mode. Mine does.

[AutobahnSHO]

This is so insanely incorrect.  Try your own test...go 25mph in gear and let off the gas and coast.  Then do the same but pop it into neutral when you let off. Guess which version of events will coast further/faster.

Your guess will be the complete opposite of correct because apparently engine braking in automatica doesn't exist and the trans is always pushing you forward.

You're correct until low low speed. Which is what I'm talking about- 0-10mph.

[AutobahnSHO]

In 3 posts we have concluded there is added "push" by the trans, no engine braking because the trans declutches, and also shifting in neutral provides more stopping power

NOT more stopping power.

Going to neutral just reduces one source of movement. The movement you're trying to stop.

[Submariner2]

[giant_mtb]

You're correct until low low speed. Which is what I'm talking about- 0-10mph.

I disagree 1,000%.  I've gone down many steep hills in 4Lo in 1st gear (manually chosen on an atuomatic) well under 10mph because, guess what, engine braking keeps the speed down and I don't even have to touch the brakes unless navigating an obstacle. 

Who is shifting into neutral to stop once they're under 10mph because it's somehow "better?"

This is 2o6 "torque converter crawl" level shit.

[AutobahnSHO]

I disagree 1,000%.  I've gone down many steep hills in 4Lo in 1st gear (manually chosen on an atuomatic) well under 10mph because, guess what, engine braking keeps the speed down and I don't even have to touch the brakes unless navigating an obstacle. 

Who is shifting into neutral to stop once they're under 10mph because it's somehow "better?"

This is 2o6 "torque converter crawl" level shit.

That's completely different than a standard car automatic!

[r0tor]

Agreed on the always downshifting going down a hill and using engine braking... Be it my manual Mazda, JGC, or Alfa

[giant_mtb]

That's completely different than a standard car automatic!

...no, it's not. My automatic transmission is the same as anybody else's. An uncommon use-case (because 99% of people never touch 4Lo) sure. But only to demonstrate the point that automatics do engine brake.

You've never gone down a mountain pass and put it in a lower gear to save your brakes? Or wha?

[FoMoJo]

...no, it's not. My automatic transmission is the same as anybody else's. An uncommon use-case (because 99% of people never touch 4Lo) sure. But only to demonstrate the point that automatics do engine brake.

You've never gone down a mountain pass and put it in a lower gear to save your brakes? Or wha?

I agree.  When I accidently pressed the "downhill" button on my Discovery Sport instead of the "vent control" button, as I was pulling into a parking lot, it shifted into "low" and nearly launched me out of the seat.  Thank goodness for seatbelts. 

[Morris Minor]

Looking at the reader comments - he's changed nobody's opinion - haha.

You've Formed Your Opinion on EVs. Now Let Me Change It.
Frozen Teslas, unsold inventory piling up at dealerships, production woes—yet sales of electric vehicles still continue to rise. Dan Neil is here to address all your EV fears and doubts.

more...
https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/cars/youve-formed-your-opinion-on-evs-now-let-me-change-it-6c6fd1c1?st=fl3snyorlx8cfkp&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

[MrH]

Why is everyone trying to convince each other one way or the other?  Just let the market decide

I'll never understand these EV evangelicals.  The Bolt and Lightning forums are filled with non-sense like "how do we convince these morons that EVs are better?!"  It's the most idiotic tribalism you can imagine.

[Laconian]

(Non-paywall link https://archive.is/FicY0)

I thought the article was actually pretty reasonable? It wasn't a cultish screed. He acknowledges that there are issues and missteps, but the quirks are being ironed out.

Agreed about the EV evangelicals though. It's weird how much of people's identity they invest in their high-dollar purchases. I fully recognize Apples as offering amazing products in a lot of areas, but I can't stomach how the Apple fanbase and media looks the other way and enables the company's worst design tendencies. (Less so recently though, it seems like Jony's departure has allowed sanity to return to Apple's product lineup).

The more environmentally-minded should advocate for HEVs and PHEVs as much as they do EVs. It's crazy how much more you can get out of a gallon of gas with just a bit of battery.

[AutobahnSHO]

Agreed on the always downshifting going down a hill and using engine braking... Be it my manual Mazda, JGC, or Alfa

...no, it's not. My automatic transmission is the same as anybody else's. An uncommon use-case (because 99% of people never touch 4Lo) sure. But only to demonstrate the point that automatics do engine brake.

You've never gone down a mountain pass and put it in a lower gear to save your brakes? Or wha?

Yes, I've used "3" on a 5speed to maintain speed downhill.

Again, DIFFERENT USE CASE- at 0-5mph on flat ground your automatic is not slowing you down, but pushing you forward in idle.

[MrH]

None of what you're saying makes any sense.  It doesn't matter if it's "pushing you forward".  The amount of braking force required to stop an automatic car that's just idling is next to nothing.  Whether it's in neutral or drive doesn't matter.  It's just noise.  It's not any easier to modulate the brake.

[AutobahnSHO]

None of what you're saying makes any sense.  It doesn't matter if it's "pushing you forward".  The amount of braking force required to stop an automatic car that's just idling is next to nothing.  Whether it's in neutral or drive doesn't matter.  It's just noise.  It's not any easier to modulate the brake.

Haven't tried it yet?

[giant_mtb]

Yes, I've used "3" on a 5speed to maintain speed downhill.

Again, DIFFERENT USE CASE- at 0-5mph on flat ground your automatic is not slowing you down, but pushing you forward in idle.

I drive on hardpack snow/ice streets for months every year. Never once has shifting into neutral at such a low speed been a benefit or necessity rolling up to a stop sign.

If you think it is and you're somehow that out of control at 0-5mph on slippery roads, you should probably just stay parked at home.

[AutobahnSHO]

I drive on hardpack snow/ice streets for months every year. Never once has shifting into neutral at such a low speed been a benefit or necessity rolling up to a stop sign.

If you think it is and you're somehow that out of control at 0-5mph on slippery roads, you should probably just stay parked at home.

I used to as well, and agree with your last paragraph. Try it though.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Depending on where you live... free Biden Bucks for putting in a home charger.


https://electrek.co/2024/01/19/the-us-treasury-just-released-ev-charger-tax-credit-guidance-heres-how-to-find-out-if-you-qualify/

Sorry, I need more than a tax credit. I need a grant.

[CaminoRacer]

Whoa, what? I thought everyone qualified for that. I was gonna include that in my taxes this year, but the map doesn't include my street

[Morris Minor]

Sorry, I need more than a tax credit. I need a grant.

I was wrong - it looks like it's for people in the charging station business or making charging stations available as part of their businesses

[Madman]

Looking at the reader comments - he's changed nobody's opinion - haha.

You've Formed Your Opinion on EVs. Now Let Me Change It.
Frozen Teslas, unsold inventory piling up at dealerships, production woes—yet sales of electric vehicles still continue to rise. Dan Neil is here to address all your EV fears and doubts.

more...
https://www.wsj.com/lifestyle/cars/youve-formed-your-opinion-on-evs-now-let-me-change-it-6c6fd1c1?st=fl3snyorlx8cfkp&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink

Wow, Dan Neil has really drank the EV Kool-Aid!  And to think I've always had him pegged as a poor man's Jeremy Clarkson.  I wonder if he's really a true believer or if he's just too afraid of getting on Elon's bad side?

[veeman]

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/toyota-chairman-doubles-down-electric-111721568.html

Toyota chairman predicts peak EV adoption will be 30%.

I think he is correct.

[GoCougs]

Short range fleets + top 10%ers living in the 'burbs? 30% is probably on the high side but it's something like that. If it does pan out Toyota will look like an hero, esp. that the other automakers went deep on EVs.

[r0tor]

The stench of desperation...
https://electrek.co/2024/01/24/stellantis-slams-italy-for-not-backing-evs-putting-fiat-at-risk/

Tavares has steered Stellantis to 100% BEV in a few years.  Fiat is doomed.  They are a small city car brand heavily dependent of Italy. 

He can't comprehend that BEVs are not the answer inside a city where you can't charge the damn things and they will discharge themselves eventually with limited use... But of course wants to blame lack of Italian subsidies rather than poor product planning.

[AutobahnSHO]

The stench of desperation...
https://electrek.co/2024/01/24/stellantis-slams-italy-for-not-backing-evs-putting-fiat-at-risk/

Tavares has steered Stellantis to 100% BEV in a few years.  Fiat is doomed.  They are a small city car brand heavily dependent of Italy. 

He can't comprehend that BEVs are not the answer inside a city where you can't charge the damn things and they will discharge themselves eventually with limited use... But of course wants to blame lack of Italian subsidies rather than poor product planning.

Ouch.

I don't understand how some companies stay alive.

[AutobahnSHO]

I saw the GM Hummer for the first time today. Green. Looks like it's trying to appear huge but probably has the space of an FJ Cruiser. Driver appeared pretty much what I imagined- balding white guy in his 40s with his arm hanging out the window.

[r0tor]

New BEV only Porsche Macan... Massive price increase and doesn't really look like an SUV anymore, but I guess that's the reality of EV design needs

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a46525326/2024-porsche-macan-ev-revealed/

[veeman]

New BEV only Porsche Macan... Massive price increase and doesn't really look like an SUV anymore, but I guess that's the reality of EV design needs

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a46525326/2024-porsche-macan-ev-revealed/

I agree they're too expensive.  ICE Macan is entry level to the Porsche family and these are priced too high for entry level Porsche.

[GoCougs]

Nobody is buying an EV that isn't Telsa. Beyond the sales collapse, no automaker is making money on these EVs, even if WtP were to buy them.