EVs

[Morris Minor]

I see the Rivian R1S as a direct rival to the Range Rover & the Volvo XC90. In the UK that's the gentleman farmer, wax jacket & green wellies crowd. And their preppie cousins in the US.

[GoCougs]

I'm not a camper AT ALL, but am in/near/passing those places almost every weekend during the riding season. They're not that far off the beaten path - 200-250 miles of range would be 3-4x what you'd need to get from to/from such spots and a nearby town w/fast charging. Shirley there are places that 200-250 miles of range wouldn't cut it, but IMO/IME the former is quite likely vastly more popular use case.

[AutobahnSHO]

Yeah, weekend campers don't want to drive hours and hours. But these things will be grocery getters and commuters first and foremost.

[r0tor]

Hell, most campers are at campsites what have power anyway

[Soup DeVille]

Hell, most campers are at campsites what have power anyway

Yeah, actual campers are.

What's been popular lately is a sort of "soft" overlanding; which is dry camping slightly off the beaten path. There's a big difference though between the sort of instagram image sold by the overlanding suppliers and the actuality of it.

[r0tor]

You mean social media is a lie?!?!?!  Wut

[Soup DeVille]

You mean social media is a lie?!?!?!  Wut

Well, what I meant was "advertising is a lie," but I suppose that also includes social media.

[AutobahnSHO]

Social media IS advertising.

[Morris Minor]

This is 1906. Two years-later the Model T appeared. By 1916 its annual run rate was 1/2M /year & cars had pretty well fully displaced horses.

So, 116 years later, I wonder where we are on the equivalent EV vs ICE curve.

https://youtu.be/sHkc83XA2dY

[veeman]

This is 1906. Two years-later the Model T appeared. By 1916 its annual run rate was 1/2M /year & cars had pretty well fully displaced horses.

So, 116 years later, I wonder where we are on the equivalent EV vs ICE curve.

https://youtu.be/sHkc83XA2dY

I don't think these are going to be equivalent curves or near equivalent curves.  Just guessing but owning a horse and buggy was probably much more of a pain in the ass than owning a Model T Ford and horse and buggy had a lot of limitations (range, speed, etc) compared with a Model T.  Limitations of ICE vs EV (more maintenance and costlier to operate) are offset by initial higher cost and the limitation of slower acceleration is minor. 

The main positive for EV is being beneficial for the environment.  That doesn't move curves as rapidly unless govt (i.e. like in Norway) steps in and forces it. 

[FoMoJo]

It's possible that the price of gas may change more than a few minds in respect to EVs. 

[r0tor]

https://youtu.be/w2W4LG9Vr1A

So my notes... It has the same environmental impact as an ICE car getting 22mpg and will take almost a week to charge on a 120V outlet.  At that rate a simple 50 mile round trip takes almost a day to charge at home.

Jason points out that this was a project to let GM take all EV development to the max.  It sort of scares me that they think this thing is an achievement - it's just a coal rolling style tribute to excess.  I don't find excess to be a particularly challenging design exercise.

[Morris Minor]

GM is walking dead. Mary Barra couldn't manage her way out of a wet paper bag.

The Corvette is interesting. But the rest is dead.

[FoMoJo]

It still resembles a dumpster on wheels.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Bring back Geo with a rebadged Prius that has a truck bed. Move over, Maverick!

[GoCougs]

This is 1906. Two years-later the Model T appeared. By 1916 its annual run rate was 1/2M /year & cars had pretty well fully displaced horses.

So, 116 years later, I wonder where we are on the equivalent EV vs ICE curve.

https://youtu.be/sHkc83XA2dY

Amazing vid - probably enhanced and such but even so dat resolution...

The Model T (or even the earlier Model A) was literally 2,000 years+ ahead of the horse-n-buggy affair. I think a closer analogy is more like ships (wind -> steam -> diesel -> fission) or flight (lighter-than-air -> gliding -> propeller -> jet) whereby there's a singular curve and then as tech advances the curve splits, and each split has life of its own. An EV equivalent to a Civic - $20k, 400 mile range, 5 minutes to fuel - is not even remotely possible with today's tech and it's been 10 years to get to this point. If EVs were a good idea across the board (cost, safety, economy, environmental, utility) government hegemony wouldn't need to force them into being. Obviously EVs work for some but for many, not, and that's probably how it should be left alone till "Mr. Fusion" comes along.

[GoCougs]

https://youtu.be/w2W4LG9Vr1A

So my notes... It has the same environmental impact as an ICE car getting 22mpg and will take almost a week to charge on a 120V outlet.  At that rate a simple 50 mile round trip takes almost a day to charge at home.

Jason points out that this was a project to let GM take all EV development to the max.  It sort of scares me that they think this thing is an achievement - it's just a coal rolling style tribute to excess.  I don't find excess to be a particularly challenging design exercise.

Oh, it's quite useful - the emperor has no clothes!

WtP are buying Tesla, not EVs, and GM knows this (see Bolt) and needed quite the clown show to try to break into the circus.

[Morris Minor]

Oh, it's quite useful - the emperor has no clothes!

WtP are buying Tesla, not EVs, and GM knows this (see Bolt) and needed quite the clown show to try to break into the circus.

This. I even saw a headline (paraphrasing) "Why people buy Teslas rather than EVs."

[Morris Minor]

Amazing vid - probably enhanced and such but even so dat resolution...

there are quite few videos now of this ilk on YouTube. Lots of clever compute power at low cost: frame interpolation, up-resolution, sharpening, noise removal, smoothing, colorization. It's amazing.

[NomisR]

https://youtu.be/w2W4LG9Vr1A

So my notes... It has the same environmental impact as an ICE car getting 22mpg and will take almost a week to charge on a 120V outlet.  At that rate a simple 50 mile round trip takes almost a day to charge at home.

Jason points out that this was a project to let GM take all EV development to the max.  It sort of scares me that they think this thing is an achievement - it's just a coal rolling style tribute to excess.  I don't find excess to be a particularly challenging design exercise.

I really feel this video though.  And I really feel that comment at the beginning of "Bro, I'm not an EV guy, but you gotta admit this is kinda cool".  The problem with it though is that it only have a 328 mile range, that's not nearly enough to do any type of offroading or terrain crawling.  Although I did notice that my mileage on average is better when I'm off roading than I am doing city driving with the GX though. 

[AutobahnSHO]

I really feel this video though.  And I really feel that comment at the beginning of "Bro, I'm not an EV guy, but you gotta admit this is kinda cool".  The problem with it though is that it only have a 328 mile range, that's not nearly enough to do any type of offroading or terrain crawling.  Although I did notice that my mileage on average is better when I'm off roading than I am doing city driving with the GX though. 

Very little wind resistance at low speeds.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Very little wind resistance at low speeds.

I think functional aerodynamics will eventually take even more priority over styling. Bubble cars.

[afty]

I'm starting to see Rivians driving around the Bay Area. Nice to see another EV company getting off the ground.

[NomisR]

Very little wind resistance at low speeds.

Consistent lower speed is probably better for the mileage than stop and go as well.

I think functional aerodynamics will eventually take even more priority over styling. Bubble cars.

Or Rocket Cars!

[CaminoRacer]

Rivians should be able to go a long long time off road if it's rock-crawling. Last time I was in Moab and rented an RZR, it barely used any fuel on the trails and we were out all day. Majority of the gas was burned driving on roads around town or flying down a dirt road like a trophy truck

[NomisR]

Rivians should be able to go a long long time off road if it's rock-crawling. Last time I was in Moab and rented an RZR, it barely used any fuel on the trails and we were out all day. Majority of the gas was burned driving on roads around town or flying down a dirt road like a trophy truck

313 range is still a bit sketchy though.  The GX has about 330 range when full and I feel like I could use another 100 or carry around an extra tank to be comfortable. 

[Morris Minor]

I'm starting to see Rivians driving around the Bay Area. Nice to see another EV company getting off the ground.

Yes it's good to see. VW's getting off the ground too. Lifted this from the Twitterwebs.

Total Q1 2022 EV sales by manufacturer:
• Tesla: 310,048 (avg of 3,445/day)
• VW: 99,100 (avg of 1,101/day)
• Rivian: 1,227 (avg of ~14/day)
• GM: 457 (avg of 5/day)

[CaminoRacer]

Lol hopefully Q2 is better for GM if Bolt production and sales are off hold

[GoCougs]

Oh, it's quite useful - the emperor has no clothes!

WtP are buying Tesla, not EVs, and GM knows this (see Bolt) and needed quite the clown show to try to break into the circus.

I should say that by "clown show" I meant entering into the fray of government EV largess. EVs probably have a spot, albeit IMO small - say 10-20% of the market.

I think most of us know how this is gonna go based on C4C, 2008 bailouts, etc. - untold billions will be poured into the US union shops, much if not all of it to be wasted.

[ChrisV]

Lol hopefully Q2 is better for GM if Bolt production and sales are off hold

Yeah, they started production again April 4th and the Bolts and Bolt EUVs have been getting to dealers where there is a wait for them. Sales figures should be up across the board, especially now that they are doing something they never did before: advertise them on TV.