EVs

[MrH]

I like the looks of the R3. Not sure it will ever make it to production though.

That being said Volvo has a very similar sized EV CUV coming out this year (or is it already out?), the EX30.

I had a reservation for an EX30 that I ended up cancelling.  It's really tiny.  I'm hopeful the R3 is a more usable size.

They also announced they're not going to proceed with a $5bn battery plant an hour east of Atlanta.

I think it's just a delay?  The R2 is moving to their Normal, Illinois facility, which makes sense.  There isn't enough demand for R1S and R1T to support the entirety of the plant.  I'm guessing they'll see how R2 demand looks and plan on making R3 in Georgia if they survive that long.

[SJ_GTI]

I think it's just a delay?  The R2 is moving to their Normal, Illinois facility, which makes sense.  There isn't enough demand for R1S and R1T to support the entirety of the plant.  I'm guessing they'll see how R2 demand looks and plan on making R3 in Georgia if they survive that long.

That was my impression of their plan as well, but if the R2 doesn't sell well it will be a moot point I think. I think they need to R2 to be a legit hit for them to stay in business.

[MrH]

That was my impression of their plan as well, but if the R2 doesn't sell well it will be a moot point I think. I think they need to R2 to be a legit hit for them to stay in business.

I think it's even in question if they get there.  R1S and R1T are awesome vehicles, but prohibitively expensive.  There's a lot of shoot for the moon kind of engineering solutions in them that are awesome, but overkill for most of the market.

The weirdest thing about Rivian is their insistence on not doing CarPlay and Android Auto.  I know Tesla doesn't do it either, but it strikes me as a strange strategy decision for them too.  I don't get it.

I know there's an opportunity to better integrate other aspects of the car into the infotainment when it's all running on the car's OS, but that doesn't outweigh the downside IMO.

With a Rivian and Tesla, your car's range and efficiency can be relayed to navigation to plan charging, etc.  But then you also have the issue that all your media consumption lives on phone.  So either you have to offer in car applications to replicate everything (Spotify/Apple Music, Podcasts, Audible, YouTube, etc) that has to constantly cloud sync to keep them all on the same page, or you just bluetooth your phone to the car, and now you're stuck selecting and managing all of this on your phone while driving.

I think I would prefer CarPlay.  Even that is getting better at communicating with the car.  There's an update I'm getting soon with the Lightning that allows charge % to communicate to Apple Maps.

[veeman]

Apple continuously updates and betters their CarPlay and I'm sure Android Auto is continuously updated and made better.  There's no way Tesla or anyone else can compete with that. I think they decide not to integrate with CarPlay and Android Auto in order to start charging for subscriptions for their in house inferior product in the not too distant future. Continuous cash cow.

I like to poke fun at my brother in law (big Tesla fan boy) that he doesn't have Waze on his Tesla IPAD screen and therefore does not know where the police officers lie in wait and therefore his navigation system is grossly inferior to the one I use (Waze via Apple CarPlay). 

[CaminoRacer]

I think I would prefer CarPlay.  Even that is getting better at communicating with the car.  There's an update I'm getting soon with the Lightning that allows charge % to communicate to Apple Maps.

BMW has integrated it pretty well. It will ask if you want to navigate to a gas station in Apple Maps if the gas light comes on.

[SJ_GTI]

I think it's even in question if they get there.  R1S and R1T are awesome vehicles, but prohibitively expensive.  There's a lot of shoot for the moon kind of engineering solutions in them that are awesome, but overkill for most of the market.

Yeah this could be true too. Even getting to mid-2026 is not a guarantee for them.

BTW you are right about the size of the R3 vs the EX30. The EX30 is about the same size as my Golf. The R3 is about halfway between a Golf and an R2.

Golf/EX30: ~167 inches long
R3: ~176 inches long
R2: ~186 inches long (about the same as a Model Y or BMW X3)

[r0tor]

A mom of one of my daughters friends has an R1S... I'm not a fan, their "minimalist" styling just looks cheap

[afty]

Clearly there's some business reason car companies don't like Apple Carplay and Android Auto.  It could be that they don't want to give control of their UI to another company, or that they'd have to share data with Apple/Google, or that there's a large licensing cost and they're sick of paying it.

[MrH]

Clearly there's some business reason car companies don't like Apple Carplay and Android Auto.  It could be that they don't want to give control of their UI to another company, or that they'd have to share data with Apple/Google, or that there's a large licensing cost and they're sick of paying it.

I don't think there's a licensing cost.  The excuse the OEMs have stated is that it gives away the control of the user experience and they'd rather have full control of that.  GM has openly stated that they want the reoccurring revenue from subscriptions.

Whatever the reason, I think everyone's lives are too phone dependent to not mirror in the car.  There are too many audio sources and communication methods that come through the phone that just Bluetooth isn't sufficient.  The battle is already over, they're just picking the losing side after the fact.

And it's only going to get worse.  The next gen CarPlay is taking over gauges too.  And it will be better than whatever the OEMs can do and more integrated into everyone's life.

I like Honda's approach.  They just got their entire infotainment budget to the bone, and will just use Android Automotive OS + phone mirroring moving forward.  It's a waste to try and do it yourself.

[Morris Minor]

I don't think there's a licensing cost.  The excuse the OEMs have stated is that it gives away the control of the user experience and they'd rather have full control of that.  GM has openly stated that they want the reoccurring revenue from subscriptions.

Whatever the reason, I think everyone's lives are too phone dependent to not mirror in the car.  There are too many audio sources and communication methods that come through the phone that just Bluetooth isn't sufficient.  The battle is already over, they're just picking the losing side after the fact.

And it's only going to get worse.  The next gen CarPlay is taking over gauges too.  And it will be better than whatever the OEMs can do and more integrated into everyone's life.

I like Honda's approach.  They just got their entire infotainment budget to the bone, and will just use Android Automotive OS + phone mirroring moving forward.  It's a waste to try and do it yourself.

This (made in Thailand) Ford Everest we're renting has a lovely interface: nice big iPad display in the middle, cool driver display... all obviously carefully thought-out and debugged. But we've never really used any of it; all we want is the iPhone & Google Maps, which has done a fantastic job of getting us around NZ.

[SJ_GTI]

I had a reservation for an EX30 that I ended up cancelling.  It's really tiny.  I'm hopeful the R3 is a more usable size.

Saw some quotes from Jason Cammisa on TCL. Apparently the interior of the R3 is pretty cramped...smaller than a GTI. It still basically has the same front end of the R2 so all of the exterior cutdown is coming from cabin space.

It's still technically a concept though so maybe they could change that by the time it gets to production...but consideringly how much love the concept is getting I suspect they'll want to keep it as close as possible. If you need practical I don't think the R3 will be for you.

[veeman]

The R3 look reminds me of the old VW Rabbit, which to me is a good thing. I used to hitch a ride to high school in my friend's Rabbit.

As a daily commuter EV for @$37 grand I like it a lot. 

[ChrisV]

https://www.teslarati.com/rivian-illinois-incentives-r2-production/

Of course, Rivian still has commercial van income, as well now that Amazon is not an exclusive sales outlet. Amazon is still buying the vans and hasn't reduced commitment, it's just that Rivian is now selling to other companies as well.

[r0tor]

The R3 look reminds me of the old VW Rabbit, which to me is a good thing. I used to hitch a ride to high school in my friend's Rabbit.

As a daily commuter EV for @$37 grand I like it a lot. 

I think more of a Yugo personally

[r0tor]

How much cooler would EV powerplants be if they were made like this?  You could use regular transmissions, regular looking engine bays, and my best guess is if the electrified pistons moved some air - you could amplify it for some actual engine noise...

[AutobahnSHO]

How much cooler would EV powerplants be if they were made like this?  You could use regular transmissions, regular looking engine bays, and my best guess is if the electrified pistons moved some air - you could amplify it for some actual engine noise...

super inefficient.

[r0tor]

Ouch!!! The Hertz Tesla failure

https://fortune.com/2024/03/15/ceo-steps-down-prices-following-purchase-teslas/

[Morris Minor]

Ouch!!! The Hertz Tesla failure

https://fortune.com/2024/03/15/ceo-steps-down-prices-following-purchase-teslas/

I would not rent a Tesla unless I was already familiar with and in the ecosystem. If you are, it's easy to transfer your cloud profile to the car for the rental duration - super useful. But for casual users, no. Recipe for trouble.
I have enough trouble figuring out unfamiliar ordinary rental vehicles inside a dark parking deck. There's a mental checklist: adjust mirrors; switch HVAC from 60° arctic blast to auto 72°; turn radio equalizer from max bass to normal; plug in iPhone & get CarPlay working.

[AutobahnSHO]

Funny how my Pandora has become full of Hertz electric vehicle commercials...

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hertz-ceo-following-electric-car-184831915.html

[CaminoRacer]

Ioniq 6 lease deals through the end of this month are pretty tempting. Compared to the expected depreciation of my 330i, the SEL trim is probably the same 24 month cost to lease, and cheaper when you account for gas & oil changes.

I only have one slight issue - I'm on track to drive 15-20k miles/year with my current commute. I'd probably need to buyout any lease to get the $7500 tax credit without mileage limits.

[MrH]

Ioniq 6 lease deals through the end of this month are pretty tempting. Compared to the expected depreciation of my 330i, the SEL trim is probably the same 24 month cost to lease, and cheaper when you account for gas & oil changes.

I only have one slight issue - I'm on track to drive 15-20k miles/year with my current commute. I'd probably need to buyout any lease to get the $7500 tax credit without mileage limits.

Yep.  The mileage I put on my daily alone is too much to ever consider a lease.  I don't think I like the idea of driving for a couple of years knowing I'm going to buy it out at the end.  I think I'd rather just lease it, then immediately buy it out.  There are some methods for doing this is if you're insistent on getting the tax credit

[CaminoRacer]

Yep.  The mileage I put on my daily alone is too much to ever consider a lease.  I don't think I like the idea of driving for a couple of years knowing I'm going to buy it out at the end.  I think I'd rather just lease it, then immediately buy it out.  There are some methods for doing this is if you're insistent on getting the tax credit

Most Hyundai/Kia dealers are doing $7500 off anyway, so it probably isn't necessary to lease just to get the tax credit. BMW might be the one I'd have to do that with, if they won't do $7500 off an i4.

[r0tor]

Most Hyundai/Kia dealers are doing $7500 off anyway, so it probably isn't necessary to lease just to get the tax credit. BMW might be the one I'd have to do that with, if they won't do $7500 off an i4.

Why wouldn't you just negotiate the purchase price at $7500 off and then add the extra $7500 lease incentive?

[ChrisV]

And it's only going to get worse.  The next gen CarPlay is taking over gauges too.  And it will be better than whatever the OEMs can do and more integrated into everyone's life.

This is the reason OEMs have been dropping CarPlay. GM doesn't WANT Apple taking over the entire UI and every screen in the car. Tesla defintely doesn't want that.

[veeman]

I like Apple CarPlay a lot because I haven't found any OEM auto company navigation system nearly as good as Waze (especially for pointing out where speed cameras and police cars are). It's also very convenient to listen to my audiobooks and make phone calls using Apple CarPlay. There is also zero learning curve when getting in a rental car for me which has Apple CarPlay regarding navigation, audiobooks, and making phone calls. 

When I drive my 2019 Infiniti QX60 which doesn't have Apple Carplay, I just use the screen on my phone for Waze and Audiobooks. In the future if most cars don't have it, I think I would get one of those really large iphones and use the iphone screen to use Waze.

[ChrisV]

I like Apple CarPlay a lot because I haven't found any OEM auto company navigation system nearly as good as Waze (especially for pointing out where speed cameras and police cars are). It's also very convenient to listen to my audiobooks and make phone calls using Apple CarPlay. There is also zero learning curve when getting in a rental car for me which has Apple CarPlay regarding navigation, audiobooks, and making phone calls. 

When I drive my 2019 Infiniti QX60 which doesn't have Apple Carplay, I just use the screen on my phone for Waze and Audiobooks. In the future if most cars don't have it, I think I would get one of those really large iphones and use the iphone screen to use Waze.

I'm with you. The current implementation of CarPlay is great. I've retrofitted it into my '13 MINI Cooper and into my 2007 Class A RV (where I can actually run the RV Life app that gives me nav specific to trucks and RVs, listing (and not using) roads that the larger rigs can't operate on (like low overpasses and such).

GM's new setup is actually Android based so Google maps and Waze still will work on it, but they won't use the CarPlay environment as Apple requires control of all screens, gauges and the like.

[MrH]

I'm with you. The current implementation of CarPlay is great. I've retrofitted it into my '13 MINI Cooper and into my 2007 Class A RV (where I can actually run the RV Life app that gives me nav specific to trucks and RVs, listing (and not using) roads that the larger rigs can't operate on (like low overpasses and such).

GM's new setup is actually Android based so Google maps and Waze still will work on it, but they won't use the CarPlay environment as Apple requires control of all screens, gauges and the like .

I've heard that claim, but have yet to see any proof that Apple is requiring control of all access.  It seems Apple will takeover which screens the OEM allows.  They can decide if they want it taking over the gauge cluster or not.

Without Carplay, the options are: bluetooth (so I'll need to take out my phone to make any meaningful selections anyways), or all your audio sources don't sync with the car and you're using the car like a second phone.  Both of those suck.

[r0tor]

I hope the integrated CarPlay approach is better thought out then the Android Automotive systems in Volvo that disables Android Auto functionality and requires you to log into a Google account just like your phone in order to access the apps... Which makes the common practice of sharing a car in the family a complete clusterfuck.

Such a nice car... Such a f'd up infotainment

[CaminoRacer]

I hope the integrated CarPlay approach is better thought out then the Android Automotive systems in Volvo that disables Android Auto functionality and requires you to log into a Google account just like your phone in order to access the apps... Which makes the common practice of sharing a car in the family a complete clusterfuck.

Such a nice car... Such a f'd up infotainment

They allow Carplay now, so do they allow normal Android Auto too?

I remember being annoyed at the infotainment in the Volvo I rented until I figured out the profile thing. (I didn't log in, just made sure the main profile was always active)

[r0tor]

They allow Carplay now, so do they allow normal Android Auto too?

I remember being annoyed at the infotainment in the Volvo I rented until I figured out the profile thing. (I didn't log in, just made sure the main profile was always active)

Nope... From what I understand Google created a way to allow AA in the newest version of Android Automotive, however Volvo has not updated the software in the cars to the version that allows it