EVs

[Morris Minor]

Think European supermini. Bolt EUV is incredibly spacious on the inside, even in the back seat, due to clever packaging. But you might need to flip down the rear seats from time to time because the trunk isn't big.
The Mach E is a completely different class of car.

It is a great shame that we look down on supermini segment cars & stigmatize them as something only for povvos.
When a rental car guy in the UK showed us the Renault Clio we'd been assigned, my heart sank, I thought we'd never be able to get all our stuff into the trunk. But we ended up loving the car.

Built on decent dedicated EV platforms, B-Segment cars would be perfect for US city & suburb dwellers.

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[AutobahnSHO]

Think European supermini. Bolt EUV is incredibly spacious on the inside, even in the back seat, due to clever packaging. But you might need to flip down the rear seats from time to time because the trunk isn't big.

The Mach E is a completely different class of car.

I would love AWD and panorama roof, if I'm not in a Miata. But yeah the M-E is a porker.

[Eye of the Tiger]

It's great that my electric bill has been around $100/mo higher since last year. This is a new "public benefits" charge to pay back the free electricity given out during the Covid pandemic (I didn't any of that), and to install free EV chargers in the homes of rich Tesla bros. This state is a fuck show.

[r0tor]

Hah... I guess ICE can out launch an EV after all

[565]

Hah... I guess ICE can out launch an EV after all

Yeah but only using launch control.  They must have done some editing in that clip because after launch control in the BMW engages once, you have to drive around for 6 miles before it will let you use it again.

Also the way the system works it's impossible to use like at a stop light for example.  The system needs several seconds to build boost and creeps forward a bit as it does, then you only have a short moment to release the brakes or the system will cancel out, so it's not like you can hold it there for very long.  It's only useful if you have a countdown you can anticipate, and even then it can be hard to time right. That's why the M3 jumped the start on the 2nd run.

[FoMoJo]

Just wondering...the Ionic has two motors, presumably about 300 bhp each, one driving the front and one driving the rear.  The M3 has 543 bhp driving both front and rear.  How much power is put to each wheel for each of these cars?

[r0tor]

Yeah but only using launch control.  They must have done some editing in that clip because after launch control in the BMW engages once, you have to drive around for 6 miles before it will let you use it again.

Also the way the system works it's impossible to use like at a stop light for example.  The system needs several seconds to build boost and creeps forward a bit as it does, then you only have a short moment to release the brakes or the system will cancel out, so it's not like you can hold it there for very long.  It's only useful if you have a countdown you can anticipate, and even then it can be hard to time right. That's why the M3 jumped the start on the 2nd run.

launch sequence on the hyundai isn't much better - plus then you need to use the NGB button since max power is limited to only a short burst

[GoCougs]

It's almost always been that ICEVs out launch EVs (60' times) at the same power/performance level.

ICEV launch control is based on (typically) storing up a lot energy and then quickly releasing/managing it to get the vehicle moving. EVs have no such energy build up and transfer - it's simply walking off the line.

But yes, modern launch control is useless in everyday driving. It's very hard on the drivetrain so automakers make it a PITA to use. Sadly, without it, turbocharged vehicles' launch are abysmal without it - sorta worthless really. 

[Laconian]

You think so? The EV6 and the G37 have very similar power levels but the EV6 completely curb stomps the G37 off the line. Lots of torque with just a tiny hint of wheel skid.

[Morris Minor]

With an EV you get max torque from zero RPM. ICE vehicles have bell-shaped torque curves peaking in middle RPM ranges. BEV curves are horizontal lines up to the high RPM before tapering off (due to back EMF in motors.) Launch control trickery is kinda like giving the fat kid a 20m start in the 100m track event... gassing up ICE engines to max torques before release

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[565]

Even though the Ioniq also has LC, EVs don't absolutely rely on it like that M3 CS does.

C&D difference between the 5N's LC time and 5-60 time is like .3 seconds. And that's because they remove .2 seconds for roll out.  So the difference is .1 seconds.  Essentially no difference

https://www.caranddriver.com/hyundai/ioniq-5-n

Whereas for the M3 CS that difference is 1.3 seconds, if you add back in the .2 seconds subtracted from the launch time, that difference is 1.1 seconds.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a44899287/2024-bmw-m3-cs-test/

The M3 CS literally suffers a 10x+ greater difference in times without LC.

In the just floor it and go department, the EVs like the 5N or 3 performance will leave the M3 CS for dead off the line.

Also in scenarios where HP exceeds grip, EVs will shine.  That can happen when HP is outrageous, like that plaid vs sapphire vs chiron video.  Or it can happen when the road surface is dusty, dirty, or damp like the real world.

[GoCougs]

You think so? The EV6 and the G37 have very similar power levels but the EV6 completely curb stomps the G37 off the line. Lots of torque with just a tiny hint of wheel skid.

The G37 didn't have launch control .

[AutobahnSHO]

Hmmm, didn't see this coming. Electric trucks don't work as well as diesel?!??!!??!?!?!

https://ashland.news/states-new-electric-truck-rule-hits-a-big-bump-in-the-road/

[Laconian]

The economics don't work out for long haul trucking, at least.

[Morris Minor]

Hmmm, didn't see this coming. Electric trucks don't work as well as diesel?!??!!??!?!?!

https://ashland.news/states-new-electric-truck-rule-hits-a-big-bump-in-the-road/

Someone in Oregon's DEQ didn't think to think.

[AutobahnSHO]

The last week I've read reviews and watched videos. Bolt is number one my "next car" list. I really don't want to give up that Miata life though, so it's a tie.

Seems the only downsides to Bolt are crappy DC charging, and no sunroof.

We would keep other cars and Bolt would be purely local car, so no need for anything but home charging.

We have paid twice to get Odyssey's sunroof cleaned, so we're actually ok skipping that.. Moonroof would be great though.

[Laconian]

Bolt is a sweet car. There are many Bolt owners in my life and all of them love the heck out of their cars. It was a freak phenomenon that it blossomed out of GM.

Maybe sell the Odyssey? Your fleet could be a Bolt, the Maverick, and your (or a) Miata. Odyssey is a nice car for what it is, but doesn't the Maverick do it all now? The Miata's pretty well depreciated at this point and the price you'd get from selling is probably lower than your own enjoyment from owning it?

[AutobahnSHO]

Bolt is a sweet car. There are many Bolt owners in my life and all of them love the heck out of their cars. It was a freak phenomenon that it blossomed out of GM.

Maybe sell the Odyssey? Your fleet could be a Bolt, the Maverick, and your (or a) Miata. Odyssey is a nice car for what it is, but doesn't the Maverick do it all now? The Miata's pretty well depreciated at this point and the price you'd get from selling is probably lower than your own enjoyment from owning it?

Need Odyssey for disc golf work. Just barely fits all the boxes of discs. Easily twice the cargo area of Maverick. However, maybe I should look at a trailer?!?!?!!!?!?!!

[Morris Minor]

Bolt is a sweet car. There are many Bolt owners in my life and all of them love the heck out of their cars. It was a freak phenomenon that it blossomed out of GM.

Yes it's like Cinderella to GM's supersized ugly stepsister EV trucks.

What's its status? I remember GM announcing in 2023 that they were killing it after '24 so they could develop something on the Ultium platform. But I think Ultium has been sidelined or had a name change or something?

[SJ_GTI]

Bolt is done production (no more being made). Ultium is in full swing (Equinox, Blazer, Lyriq...and the Honda Prologue).

The cheapest ultium is quite a bit more expensive than the Bolt though, The Equinox can theoretically be bought at ~35k starting MSRP (less credits if you qualify). Its quite a bit bigger as well which some people would like, but others would not.

[AutobahnSHO]

I saw one of the videos claimed the Bolt was getting upgraded so would be not sold in 2024 but back in 2025. But I don't know how much I believe that.

BTW looked at trailers, they're all too heavy for Maverick. Odyssey stays.

I hinted that there's no real reason to get rid of Miata and wifey said, "NO" (to 4 cars )