*Renamed: $10large small SUV?

[Payman]

My car has less than 76K miles.  The interior has fallen apart in a manner I have not seen since mid-80s Chrysler products, and I've encountered or heard of others of the same vintage with the exact same issues (headliners coming unglued, paint on buttons bubbling up and falling off, etc).  It has numerous electrical gremlins that I just deal with because the cost to chase them down and fix them isn't worth it.  Again, an internet search shows a number of these that I've experienced being fairly common.  I don't know about you, but in the winter time I kind of like having a rear defroster that I can turn on and not worry about it burning the fuse out if left on for more than 90 seconds.  In less than 10K miles with this car, I've put more money into fixing non-corrosion related shit, plus all of the issues that I'm not bothering to address because they are inconvenient but don't result in a failed inspection or inability to drive the car, than any other vehicle I've owned, and I've run vehicles with far higher miles.

I also have a profound problem with the way VW builds their cars.  Their design for repair and maintainability is poor.  I've got a coolant level sensor that's failing (get bogus coolant warnings any time it's under 10F).  I looked into what it takes to replace it.  You have to replace the whole @#$%ing coolant reservoir if the sensor goes bad because it's molded into the reservoir bottle.  My windshield sprayers failed a couple of years ago.  I popped the hood and found that the line from the pump to the nozzles, which instead of being made of a rubbery material, was made out of a brittle, convoluted plastic tubing that's prone to breaking, had snapped at the hood hinge point (internet search showed this was an EXTREMELY common problem across multiple generations of Golf/Jetta).  I figured I'd just need to buy a length of this cheap shit "hose" material for a couple of bucks to replace the piece between the pump and the T where it split to the nozzles.  NOPE.  Whole hose assembly is fused together (plastic tube is thermally welded to the fittings) so you have to replace everything from the pump to the nozzles.  I patched it myself using some rubber line, barbed fittings, and duct tape from the hardware store.  And, of course, interior adhesives and paints that clearly don't stand the test of time.

My cousin had a MKIV Jetta that she unloaded for a Honda the instant the warranty was up.  She was sick of taking it into the dealer to fix niggling little electrical problems, especially once said problems would no longer be covered by warranty.  Thankfully hers was a VR6, considering the 1.8Ts had a notorious timing belt tensioner design flaw that, instead of fixing, VW simply reduced the inspect & replace interval by a factor of 2.  The place I bought my Mazda from also sold VWs and I can remember sitting in the service waiting area one day while my car was getting its annual state inspection while a pair of female Jetta owners traded stories about the problems their cars had had.  Interestingly, their stories were near identical. 

"Oh, your rear windows came off the tracks too?!  This is my third time getting that fixed.  Did you know they have to take the whole door apart to fix it?".  Sadly, they still seemed enamored with their cars.

These cars are junk.

That's all unfortunate. People here have recommended the Focus, but because of my personal experiences, I cannot recommend it. I wouldn't dissuade an Escape because of it though.

[12,000 RPM]

And I had several VWs that were the most reliable cars I ever owned. My brother in law has bought VW's exclusively for decades. He traded in his '01 TDi with over 500,000 kms on it, and he currently has a '14 Tiguan, '17 Passat, and a '17 Mercedes 250-something (small crossover). I also know people who've had issues with CRVs and RAV4s. My brother lost the engine in his '98 RAV4 within 2 years.

Would you say, in general, the odds of a Tiguan having problems are the same as the odds of a RAV4/CR-V having problems?

I had a dead reliable VW too.

[Payman]

Would you say, in general, the odds of a Tiguan having problems are the same as the odds of a RAV4/CR-V having problems?

I had a dead reliable VW too.

No better or worse, IMHO.

[MX793]

That's all unfortunate. People here have recommended the Focus, but because of my personal experiences, I cannot recommend it. I wouldn't dissuade an Escape because of it though.

Thing is, many issues aren't isolated to particular years or even particular models.  There's a contingent of VW fanbois where I work who feel like VW can do no wrong.  Another co-worker bought a Tig (used I think) apparently at their recommendation.  Just last week I heard him complaining to one of the VW fan club about all of the issues he's had recently.  I distinctly remember overhearing him say "It's a great car to drive, but I've never had so many issues like this in a car with this age and mileage.  I'll never buy another one again".  Reminds me of some family friends who were big into Audi in the late 90s and early 00s (always used and off warranty).  My dad asked how reliable they were and the response was "Oh, you know, it wouldn't be an Audi if there wasn't some little problem here or there.  The seat heaters nearly caught fire just the other day.  Thankfully I noticed the burning smell before it could do any real damage".

I used to be really hard on VW (and Audi) in the 90s and early 00s because of all of the problems they had from anecdotes from friends and family.  I gave them a chance because, based on some casual internet searching and input from co-workers who have newer (MkV+ Golf/Jetta-based cars), VW had gotten their act together after how awful the MkIV Golf/Jetta was and were producing solid cars.  Should have done more research.  Maybe they're better than they were 20 years ago, but they're still garbage.  Only person who could think these were good, reliable vehicles either has only driven VWs or came from an even less reliable vehicle, like a Fiat or something British, and were so enthralled by the step up in reliability that they stopped looking.

Only positive thing I'll say about it is that their corrosion resistance is admirable.  The car has spent its entire life in the rust belt and looks like it came from somewhere down south.

I might consider buying a new one or CPO with a warranty, but I wouldn't touch an off-warranty used one, even with low miles (mine only had 66K on it when I bought it).

[HurricaneSteve]

Night and day. It would be a shame to dismiss the Tiguan because its completely different and over-engineered stablemate has a bad reputation. The Tiguan is a perfectly fine vehicle.

[Payman]

Need context. Is that one review? What are the complaints? Did you see the link I provided, based on 42 reviews?

[Payman]

Thing is, many issues aren't isolated to particular years or even particular models.  There's a contingent of VW fanbois where I work who feel like VW can do no wrong.  Another co-worker bought a Tig (used I think) apparently at their recommendation.  Just last week I heard him complaining to one of the VW fan club about all of the issues he's had recently.  I distinctly remember overhearing him say "It's a great car to drive, but I've never had so many issues like this in a car with this age and mileage.  I'll never buy another one again".  Reminds me of some family friends who were big into Audi in the late 90s and early 00s (always used and off warranty).  My dad asked how reliable they were and the response was "Oh, you know, it wouldn't be an Audi if there wasn't some little problem here or there.  The seat heaters nearly caught fire just the other day.  Thankfully I noticed the burning smell before it could do any real damage".

I used to be really hard on VW (and Audi) in the 90s and early 00s because of all of the problems they had from anecdotes from friends and family.  I gave them a chance because, based on some casual internet searching and input from co-workers who have newer (MkV+ Golf/Jetta-based cars), VW had gotten their act together after how awful the MkIV Golf/Jetta was and were producing solid cars.  Should have done more research.  Maybe they're better than they were 20 years ago, but they're still garbage.  Only person who could think these were good, reliable vehicles either has only driven VWs or came from an even less reliable vehicle, like a Fiat or something British, and were so enthralled by the step up in reliability that they stopped looking.

Only positive thing I'll say about it is that their corrosion resistance is admirable.  The car has spent its entire life in the rust belt and looks like it came from somewhere down south.

I might consider buying a new one or CPO with a warranty, but I wouldn't touch an off-warranty used one, even with low miles (mine only had 66K on it when I bought it).

That's fair, and basically what I recommended.

[HurricaneSteve]

I did and some of those reviews are within three months of ownership which is hardly long enough to determine if a car is "fine". The image I posted is from Consumer Reports, while not perfect, uses a more comprehensive system to determine reliability.

Need context. Is that one review? What are the complaints? Did you see the link I provided, based on 45+ reviews?

[Payman]

I did and some of those reviews are within three months of ownership which is hardly long enough to determine if a car is "fine". The image I posted is from Consumer Reports, while not perfect, uses a more comprehensive system to determine reliability.

Yes, some are, and some are far longer. Everyone here takes CR with a healthy dose of salt. One of the "flaws" they track is quantity and size of cupholders. They've also repeatedly based their predicted reliability scores on other, older models of the same marque.

[HurricaneSteve]

I can understand that. But it's not just CR. This is from True Delta:

Yes, some are, and some are far longer. Everyone here takes CR with a healthy dose of salt. One of the "flaws" they track is quantity and size of cupholders. They've also repeatedly based their predicted reliability scores on other, older models of the same marque.

[BimmerM3]

I typically plan on keep cars for a long time. "Buy only with a warranty" is equivalent to "don't buy" for me. I might make an exception for some new cars with an exceptionally long warranty, but CPO warranties typically aren't enough to sway me.

[Payman]

Again, context. I have no idea what those numbers, or fewer-longer trips mean. Anyways, Will needs to do the research and make his choice. My opinion is that Tiguan seems like a good choice, because I haven't read or heard anything that says it isn't. RAV4s and CRVs (but not new, lol) are good choices too.

[MX793]

Again, context. I have no idea what those numbers, or fewer-longer trips mean. Anyways, Will needs to do the research and make his choice. My opinion is that Tiguan seems like a good choice, because I haven't read or heard anything that says it isn't. RAV4s and CRVs (but not new, lol) are good choices too.

More trips = more trips to the shop to fix things.  Numbers are, I believe, number of unique owners/vehicles being reported.

Obviously, a small sample size.  Also, people tend to be more vocal when they have issues/complaints than when they are satisfied, so that introduces some bias into the equation.  "No news is good news" is often true when determining what is a good car.

[Laconian]

The headliner fabric is collapsing in the rear of my friend's Mk5 Jetta, so sitting in the back seat kind of feels like being in a tent.

[HurricaneSteve]

When reviewing cars they do mention cup holders but it doesn't factor into reliability. You might be thinking of JD Power. Also did you know that the Passat has above average reliability and they have several Audi models with the same rating? They also recommend several BMW and Audi models over Acura and Lexus (both in subjective and quality areas). Again they're not perfect but I feel of the available publications and sources, CR seems to be pretty unbiased.

Yes, some are, and some are far longer. Everyone here takes CR with a healthy dose of salt. One of the "flaws" they track is quantity and size of cupholders. They've also repeatedly based their predicted reliability scores on other, older models of the same marque.

[12,000 RPM]

Again, context. I have no idea what those numbers, or fewer-longer trips mean. Anyways, Will needs to do the research and make his choice. My opinion is that Tiguan seems like a good choice, because I haven't read or heard anything that says it isn't. RAV4s and CRVs (but not new, lol) are good choices too.

You have 2 big data sources and a lot of anecdotes pointing to the Tiguan not being a good car. I think you've made your mind up and ignore anything that doesn't jive with your beliefs.

V6 RAV4 is the correct answer

[Xer0]

The HRV was available with a manual and AWD for like a year I think, maybe the CX5 too?  But at a 10K budget, I think the manual trans requirement should be scrapped and focus on the other stuff.

[Payman]

You have 2 big data sources and a lot of anecdotes pointing to the Tiguan not being a good car. I think you've made your mind up and ignore anything that doesn't jive with your beliefs.

V6 RAV4 is the correct answer

They were 2 snapshots, no idea where from, that showed numbers without telling me what the numbers meant.

The link I posted, from Cars.com, showed 42 owner reviews with a 4.5/5 average.

[Eye of the Tiger]

V6 Rav4 is overkill for 3-mile stop-n-go commute. Actually, V6 Rav4 is overkill for anything.

I'd go with a Matrix/Vibe, but that is probably way under $10k.

[MX793]

They were 2 snapshots, no idea where from, that showed numbers without telling me what the numbers meant.

The link I posted, from Cars.com, showed 42 owner reviews with a 4.5/5 average.

Positive write-ups on 2-month-old cars aren't a good gauge.  TrueDelta tracks longer term ownership.  The track number of trips to the dealer/shop for repairs.  The also report data on the nature of the repairs (engine, transmission, suspension, body/trim, electrical), cost of repairs, and you can browse right to the specific details of the repairs (symptoms, what was replaced/repaired, cost, and vehicle mileage).  So you can see if the stuff that goes wrong is the big deal, $$$$, call a tow truck kind of issues or niggling stuff that's cheap and easy to fix and doesn't prevent the car from being driven.

The rate of repair on the Tig, per TrueDelta, is over 1.5x the average for all vehicles reported on their site.  You only get a handful of free views before they force you to subscribe, but when I pulled up the breakdown on the 2012.  Majority of issues reported were engine related (fuel pump seemed common).

[AutobahnSHO]

V6 Rav4 is overkill for 3-mile stop-n-go commute. Actually, V6 Rav4 is overkill for anything.

I'd go with a Matrix/Vibe, but that is probably way under $10k.

i iz getting old. This is not just commute but anytime wife and I want to go anywhere without needed 5 seats behind us... Like longer road trips too.   Again the objective is upright seating, or I'd be grabbing some awesome wagon action first. I'll probably go sit in a few (Carmax or something?) just to see if something like Matrix/ mazda5 might be doable, but...

[Eye of the Tiger]

i iz getting old. This is not just commute but anytime wife and I want to go anywhere without needed 5 seats behind us... Like longer road trips too.   Again the objective is upright seating, or I'd be grabbing some awesome wagon action first. I'll probably go sit in a few (Carmax or something?) just to see if something like Matrix/ mazda5 might be doable, but...

Old people love Highlanders, and you can get those with the 4 cylinder. Very upright and roomy seating.

[AutobahnSHO]

Old people love Highlanders, and you can get those with the 4 cylinder. Very upright and roomy seating.

Worse gas mileage than Rav4 or CR-V. Don't need the space- we will be keeping minivan.

[12,000 RPM]

They were 2 snapshots, no idea where from, that showed numbers without telling me what the numbers meant.

The link I posted, from Cars.com, showed 42 owner reviews with a 4.5/5 average.

TrueDelta and CR draw from a much bigger sample pool with much more robust methodologies.

Like I said you're formed an opinion and ignore any data that doesn't jive, vs seeking out the data to form an opinion. Not a good way to approach this IMO

[Payman]

TrueDelta and CR draw from a much bigger sample pool with much more robust methodologies.

Like I said you're formed an opinion and ignore any data that doesn't jive, vs seeking out the data to form an opinion. Not a good way to approach this IMO

I. DIDN'T. KNOW. WHERE. THE . PICS. WERE. FROM. BUT. I. DID. LOOK. AT. OTHER. DATA. AND. FORMED. THE. OPINION. THAT. THE. TIGUAN. IS. STILL. A. DECENT. OPTION.

[Payman]

THE. CRV. AND. RAV4. ARE. SAFE. BUT. MORE. EXPENSIVE. OPTIONS. BUT. THERE'S. MORE. OUT. THERE. THAT. ARE. GOOD. TOO. JFC. MAYBE. WE. SHOULD. ALL. JUST. BUY. THE. ALMIGHTY. FUCKING. CRV. OR. RAV4.

[Payman]

FUCK. If I didn't hate the CRV and RAV4 before, I do now. 

[Eye of the Tiger]

WHAT. IF. TOYONDA. MADE. A. CRAV-4.
PERFECTION.

[Payman]

WHAT. IF. TOYONDA. MADE. A. CRAV-4.
PERFECTION.

It would be the best vehicle evar. Best seats, best power, best cargo volume, best cupholders, best sunvisors, best appreciation, best as it gets older, just best.

[12,000 RPM]

There are other good options besides the RAV-4 and CR-V. It just so happens the Tiguan isn't one of them. Don't let your CRAV-4 hate cloud your judgment.