C&D's time with the Giulia QF concludes

[Soup DeVille]

How much does it cost to get tires swapped? Maybe my OEM tires with lots of life in them (lol I never drive) could be my winter tires...

Around here, amongst major shops, Discount Tire is the cheapest at $15 a corner. The average seems to be about $20-25.

[HurricaneSteve]

To me it's nigh-unreadable because of the content, not just the ads!

C&D's site is nigh-unreadable, it's an ad every fucking paragraph with a video on the side.

[GoCougs]

Gougs just likes to flex his frugality muscles whenever possible.

Nah, I'll spend where it matters for me. This is in the same category as auto makers boasting about 'Ring times, plus it's annoying (performance and wet-traction safety degrades by the month).

[12,000 RPM]

Nah, I'll spend where it matters for me. This is in the same category as auto makers boasting about 'Ring times, plus it's annoying (performance and wet-traction safety degrades by the month).

You have no problem with the wastefulness and pointlessness of the ZL1 though  

The way I see it, summer tires only make sense on a car that doesn't get driven in cold weather. UHP A/Ss are pretty damn good on the street and don't turn to glass in cold weather.

[CaminoRacer]

The way I see it, summer tires only make sense on a car that doesn't get driven in cold weather. UHP A/Ss are pretty damn good on the street and don't turn to glass in cold weather.

Even if it's just a summer cruising car, the sticky hi-po summer tires don't make sense unless you're doing something with the car that necessitates 8/10 or higher grip levels - autox, occasional HPDEs, etc. Otherwise just stick with a milder summer tire (BFG Comp 2 or similar) or a UHP A/S.

[MX793]

I've driven my Contis in temperatures dipping into the 30s and while they have far less grip than in warmer temperatures, they aren't unmanageable or dangerous in any way.  Not that much, if any, worse than lo-po all seasons you might get on a CUV, really.  I believe MPSSes are the same.  I wouldn't go sub-freezing with them, but if you live someplace that almost never dips below freezing, you could year-round them without any drama as long as you don't try to drive on them as hard as you would in warmer temperatures when it's cooler out.

[12,000 RPM]

Maybe it was the difference in the tires (NT555 vs DWS06) but in the cold the G felt like it had AWD on its A/Ss vs the summers on the Z. Even just putting a little power down in a slow corner in the Z would upset it. But in good weather the wider fronts of the G gripped much harder (despite carrying more weight). That's what really turned me off from summer tires

[BimmerM3]

Even if it's just a summer cruising car, the sticky hi-po summer tires don't make sense unless you're doing something with the car that necessitates 8/10 or higher grip levels - autox, occasional HPDEs, etc. Otherwise just stick with a milder summer tire (BFG Comp 2 or similar) or a UHP A/S.

Yeah I'll probably do UHP A/S on the S2000 next time around. I don't push it hard enough to justify RE-11s or PS4Ss.

I've driven my Contis in temperatures dipping into the 30s and while they have far less grip than in warmer temperatures, they aren't unmanageable or dangerous in any way.  Not that much, if any, worse than lo-po all seasons you might get on a CUV, really.  I believe MPSSes are the same.  I wouldn't go sub-freezing with them, but if you live someplace that almost never dips below freezing, you could year-round them without any drama as long as you don't try to drive on them as hard as you would in warmer temperatures when it's cooler out.

Yeah, I've driven RE-11s in like 7 degree temps during a freak cold spell in Atlanta when I just had one car. I wouldn't suggest hard cornering in those temps, but they were fine for driving to/from work.

Maybe it was the difference in the tires (NT555 vs DWS06) but in the cold the G felt like it had AWD on its A/Ss vs the summers on the Z. Even just putting a little power down in a slow corner in the Z would upset it. But in good weather the wider fronts of the G gripped much harder (despite carrying more weight). That's what really turned me off from summer tires

You're talking about different tires from different manufacturers on different cars, and you chalk the difference up to the performance rating?

[12,000 RPM]

The G and Z are the same damn car and all factors should have leaned in the Z's favor. In reality it was no better in good weather and much worse in the cold.

[BimmerM3]

The G and Z are the same damn car and all factors should have leaned in the Z's favor. In reality it was no better in good weather and much worse in the cold.

Same platform, but the G has a significantly longer wheelbase. Also, while I can't remember which specific mods you did to your cars (i.e. maybe you actually did have the same parts on your two cars), based on a few minutes of Googling, the stock springs/shocks are not the same parts and have different ride heights/stiffnesses, even though they're interchangeable.

But even if you were in the literal same car on the same road in identical conditions, writing off an entire performance category based on some experience with a single model of tire seems a bit rash to me.

[GoCougs]

I had Michelon Pilot Sport A/S on the G - nice and stable but a bit loud and rough, rock hard in temps below about 45F, and were worth only ~30,000 miles. Now have some ho-hum Yokohamas, which have none of those downsides. You'll never convince me buying summer tires or R-compound tires is anything but equivalent to bragging about 'Ring times (other than of course for cars for which there are no A/S available, like a ZR-1 or some such).

[MX793]

Maybe it was the difference in the tires (NT555 vs DWS06) but in the cold the G felt like it had AWD on its A/Ss vs the summers on the Z. Even just putting a little power down in a slow corner in the Z would upset it. But in good weather the wider fronts of the G gripped much harder (despite carrying more weight). That's what really turned me off from summer tires

Not all summer tires are created equal.  My P-Zeroes were garbage under 50F.  Super greasy.  IIRC, the literature said do not operate under 45F.  The Contis I think say don't use under 20F.  No experience with Nitto, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were the same given that they're a more budget-oriented performance tire.

[565]

Even if it's just a summer cruising car, the sticky hi-po summer tires don't make sense unless you're doing something with the car that necessitates 8/10 or higher grip levels - autox, occasional HPDEs, etc. Otherwise just stick with a milder summer tire (BFG Comp 2 or similar) or a UHP A/S.

I have Michelin Pilot SuperSports on the G37xS, and basically I can never go back to all seasons ever again.  I have dedicated snow tires for the G37xS on their own wheels, Michelin X-ice Xi3.  I change them around thanksgiving and tax day.

I see no point to all seasons if you have snow tires.  They just do everything worse than the summer tires in every season but winter, and for that season I have winter tires.  The PSS tires have performed better in terms of road noise, steering feel, braking, wet performance, etc.  I've driven them down to 25 degrees F without issue.  I'm currently on their 3rd season on them and around 25K miles.  I'll probably change them out next season.

These tires and the RWD G37 sway bar swap have basically saved this car for me.  I was going to sell the G37xS because it wasn't enjoyable to drive.  The tire swap made this car enjoyable enough to drive that I'm basically planning to drive it into the ground before getting a new car.

I will likely never buy another set of all seasons (aka no season tires), ever again.  Ever car I own is going to be on a dedicated summer/dedicated winter set up.

If you haven't tried putting good dedicated summer tires on your daily driver, then you definitely have to try it.  It transforms the car.  I can never go back.

[12,000 RPM]

I think the PSS' awesomeness is more a Michelin thing than a summer tire thing. The A/S 3s are top rated in the all season category too

[BimmerM3]

I think the PSS' awesomeness is more a Michelin thing than a summer tire thing. The A/S 3s are top rated in the all season category too

You mean that one bad tire might not be representative of an entire performance category.

[12,000 RPM]

You mean that one bad tire might not be representative of an entire performance category.

No I mean that one exceptionally good brand is not necessarily representative of whatever categories they play in

There's Michelin and then there's everyone else

[CaminoRacer]

Michelin made a great tire in a category that no one else really competes in. But they don't even offer a tire in some other good categories.

[BimmerM3]

No I mean that one exceptionally good brand is not necessarily representative of whatever categories they play in

There's Michelin and then there's everyone else

So why can there be exceptionally good tires but not exceptionally bad tires?

[12,000 RPM]

So why can there be exceptionally good tires but not exceptionally bad tires?

Never said that either

[BimmerM3]

Never said that either

I just don't understand why you'd write off all summer tires based on experience with one tire, but when 565 did the same thing with all-seasons, you get all defensive and claim that the only possible explanation is that Michelin is leaps and bounds above everyone else.

Maybe you were just running crappy summers. Maybe he was just running crappy all seasons.

FWIW, I haven't had any of the issues that you complained about on your summers with my Bridgestone RE-11s (same performance class as the PSS of its era).

[Rich]

Why do you guys with RWD cars want more grip on the street?

For FWD, I get it. Understeer is never fun

[12,000 RPM]

RWD cars understeer too. Z did... G was basically neutral on the street

No fuss launches are also nice

[r0tor]

I would buy a set of wheels/summer tires for the Giulia if I already didn't have 2 sets laying in my garage from the RX8 and my wife would shoot me.

I was really impressed with the pirelli all seasons in fall/winter/spring... But ever since it got hot outside they feel mushy and greasy and sap some of the fun out of the car

[r0tor]

Speaking of the qudrafogogogolollipoio...

https://youtu.be/98BPhZIxV9Y

[Eye of the Tiger]

Why do you guys with RWD cars want more grip on the street?

For FWD, I get it. Understeer is never fun

So Dakota doesn't spin out while trail braking off ramps.

[r0tor]

So Dakota doesn't spin out while trail braking off ramps.

Guard rail braking instead of trail braking

[Eye of the Tiger]

Guard rail braking instead of trail braking

Catch the edge of the pavement on the inside shoulder. Grip +1000

[MX793]

Catch the edge of the pavement on the inside shoulder. Grip +1000

In motocross, we call that "railing the berm".

[Eye of the Tiger]

In motocross, we call that "railing the berm".

It works in trucks, too. Sidewalls FTW.

[CaminoRacer]

Guard rail braking instead of trail braking

When my dad bought his '71 Camaro in SoCal back in the early 90s, the PO claimed the big scratch down the passenger side door was from a shopping cart. Nah bro, that's from a guardrail and it's pretty obvious.

(It's long gone now, the car got painted in ~2001)