EV road tax

[CaminoRacer]

I got a letter in the mail trying to get me to sign up for this privacy-invading program: https://roadusagecharge.utah.gov/

Fuck that noise. I'm not installing a tracker on my car so the government can tax me. Time to throw the tea back in the harbor.

[MX793]

I got a letter in the mail trying to get me to sign up for this privacy-invading program: https://roadusagecharge.utah.gov/

Fuck that noise. I'm not installing a tracker on my car so the government can tax me. Time to throw the tea back in the harbor.

Why don't you want to pay your fair share?

[FoMoJo]

How much is the flat fee?

[CaminoRacer]

Why don't you want to pay your fair share?

Utah loves to complain about our air quality. I paid a few grand more for an EV instead of a Civic to help the air quality. The coal rolling diesel trucks can pay 2x to cover my share.

How much is the flat fee?

2020 is $90, 2021 is $120

[CaminoRacer]

I just hope that this isn't the long term solution for all road taxes. Flat rate obviously isn't "fair" to all drivers whose road usage is different and I don't like government tracking of mileage/location/driving habits

[Laconian]

Why do they need to see your data all the time? This would be much less alarming if you had to pop an OBD dongle in your car every year, at least you know it's only reporting instantaneous mileage data and not gathering troves of historical data. That's messed up.

[cawimmer430]

I had no idea you lived in Europe! 

[FoMoJo]

I just hope that this isn't the long term solution for all road taxes. Flat rate obviously isn't "fair" to all drivers whose road usage is different and I don't like government tracking of mileage/location/driving habits

They could just do a mileage check when you renew your registration.

[CaminoRacer]

They could just do a mileage check when you renew your registration.

That would be much more tolerable. Although it doesn't account for out of state driving like a fuel tax can do. College kids with out of state plates would be funneling tax money to their "home" state while driving in a completely different state and not supporting those roads at all

[FoMoJo]

That would be much more tolerable. Although it doesn't account for out of state driving like a fuel tax can do. College kids with out of state plates would be funneling tax money to their "home" state while driving in a completely different state and not supporting those roads at all

Flat rate it is then. 

[RomanChariot]

They could just do a mileage check when you renew your registration.

That is in discussion for the future but I don't believe that Utah currently has a method of tracking EV mileage. Utah recently got rid of vehicle safety inspections and EVs don't have to have an emission inspection which is why they came up with a flat rate.

[NomisR]

toll roads on all roads... it would allow competition for better roads and less congestion too..

[Xer0]

toll roads on all roads... it would allow competition for better roads and less congestion too..

Pass, I don't trust it for a second.  Toll roads are always "temporary" but instead are just added to and added to.  In theory, they would be fine if you could trust your government but having lived in Illinois for 25 years that's a tall order.

[Speed_Racer]

Pass, I don't trust it for a second.  Toll roads are always "temporary" but instead are just added to and added to.  In theory, they would be fine if you could trust your government but having lived in Illinois for 25 years that's a tall order.

Also pass. It'd end up just like our high speed internet infrastructure. Only one road to choose from, $70 toll, 25 mph speed limit 

[r0tor]

Gas taxes are pointless. The money gets funneled back into the general state budget and appropriated from there.  Many times only a fraction of the actual tax collected goes to infrastructure upkeep.

Just kill the tax all together and raise the state income/sales/ect tax as needed.

[CaminoRacer]

Gas taxes are pointless. The money gets funneled back into the general state budget and appropriated from there.  Many times only a fraction of the actual tax collected goes to infrastructure upkeep.

Just kill the tax all together and raise the state income/sales/ect tax as needed.

True.

Utah is trying to lower the income tax and raise food tax, gas tax, random service tax (netflix, massages, lawn mowing, etc). I think it's dumb and just complicated things.

[RomanChariot]

True.

Utah is trying to lower the income tax and raise food tax, gas tax, random service tax (netflix, massages, lawn mowing, etc). I think it's dumb and just complicated things.

They are doing it because the Utah constitution specifies that 100% of income tax has to go to school funding. The legislators want to be able to control where they spend the taxes.

[CaminoRacer]

They are doing it because the Utah constitution specifies that 100% of income tax has to go to school funding. The legislators want to be able to control where they spend the taxes.

Yeah they should just change the constitution if they really want to.

[Laconian]

toll roads on all roads... it would allow competition for better roads and less congestion too..

A) The majority of tolling revenue go to the private companies that run the tolling infrastructure.
B) Rural people are screwed because there's no tax revenue to maintain their less-important roads.

[Laconian]

True.

Utah is trying to lower the income tax and raise food tax, gas tax, random service tax (netflix, massages, lawn mowing, etc). I think it's dumb and just complicated things.

So regressive... why are they doing that?

They are doing it because the Utah constitution specifies that 100% of income tax has to go to school funding. The legislators want to be able to control where they spend the taxes.

Can't they amend it?

[NomisR]

A) The majority of tolling revenue go to the private companies that run the tolling infrastructure.
B) Rural people are screwed because there's no tax revenue to maintain their less-important roads.

privatize the roads, all tolls from specific roads goes into maintaining said roads.  Companies/Stores and opt to sponsor roads so it's free to travel so customers can get to their stores for free..

[Laconian]

That's the problem with private solutions though, there isn't enough demand in lesser populated areas to support the construction and maintenance of the infrastructure. Companies would rather just not bother if they were left to their own devices. Only USPS serves the folks way out in the boonies. UPS and FedEx refuse. Getting rural residents electrified and connected to phone service required regulation.

And this is Utah we are talking about, which is extremely rural.

[veeman]

State income tax is obviously based on income.  High state income taxes has caused an exodus of high earners to states with no state income tax.  All these other taxes which are not income based are peanuts compared to a state income tax for someone earning 7 figures a year. 

[Laconian]

Utah doesn't want to spurn all its NuSkin MLM zillionaires

[RomanChariot]

Yeah they should just change the constitution if they really want to.

Can't they amend it?

They want to amend the constitution but it is not a popular idea. People don't trust the legislators to not pull the funding away from the education system if they are given discretion over how it is spent. Instead they are choosing to try to lower the income tax so that they can reduce the money that is going to the education system and add other taxes that they have discretion over.

[Xer0]

So regressive... why are they doing that?

Sounds good to me.  Kinda sounds like a backdoor to go with a more European style VAT which I'm personally okay with vs just Income taxes.  Of course, the issue becomes when you get a VAT AND Income taxes....

[AutobahnSHO]

Utah doesn't want to spurn all its NuSkin MLM zillionaires

Right?

[CaminoRacer]

They want to amend the constitution but it is not a popular idea. People don't trust the legislators to not pull the funding away from the education system if they are given discretion over how it is spent. Instead they are choosing to try to lower the income tax so that they can reduce the money that is going to the education system and add other taxes that they have discretion over.

Well they're right not to trust them, since they are doing exactly that with the new tax bill.

[NomisR]

Well they're right not to trust them, since they are doing exactly that with the new tax bill.

Hell, look at California with the recently passed gas tax that they "promised that it will never be diverted to anything else", it got diverted to the low speed rail to no where last year, and the media barely reported on it..

[r0tor]

PA has the highest gas tax in the country and some of the worst roads.   The gas tax revenue gets diverted to pretty much everything except roads/bridges.

The PA Turnpike prices have become absolutely ridiculous.  It's horribly in debt and somehow legislaters passed laws that force them to contribute like $800 million a year to the state police despite being trillions in debt.