Wrecked my Tacoma this afternoon...

[ifcar]

"Either safety matters, or it does not. The domestic put standard rear wheel ABS on their truck a long time ago, because it made a real world difference. But this difference doesn't show up in NHTSA or IIHS testing. I guess the tests are all that matter in real world safety, so the manufacturers should only design for those tests."

It's not safety testing that showed no improvement with ABS, no one has said ABS doesn't stop a car faster. It's the accident rates that didn't change.

[BRealistic]

"Either safety matters, or it does not. The domestic put standard rear wheel ABS on their truck a long time ago, because it made a real world difference. But this difference doesn't show up in NHTSA or IIHS testing. I guess the tests are all that matter in real world safety, so the manufacturers should only design for those tests."

It's not safety testing that showed no improvement with ABS, no one has said ABS doesn't stop a car faster. It's the accident rates that didn't change.

Accident rates did not change?

Hmm, I am curious how they determine these rates, and how many accidents happened because a vehicle did not have ABS.

For the record- my 02 Tundra did not have even rear wheel ABS. I was shocked the first time I almost lost it in hard braking in the wet, considering how every domestic and Mazda pickup I had ever had (sans my 83 F-100) was equiped with at least rear wheel ABS. Tha ABS added cost, and since people buying trucks didn't seem to think it was worth the added cost, Toyota made it a stand alone option- since we all can clearly predict what very light in the rear unloaded vehicles we will be driving one day on wet roads and have to make a sudden panic stop.

Look- I like Toyota and they obviously know how to engineer and build good vehicles. But profits are profits, and safety is more a state of mind and advertising line than something we can really grasp since there are all types of accidents- rollovers, 360s, T-bones, rear ends, and combos off all of those. I like the fact that we test, but these tests should be used like EPA estimates and not hard factual numbers that reflect 100% on all possible real world accidents. We can determine a poor safety design, and we can determine good safety design with our limited testing, but all the areas in between are too gray to color with hard lines, especially since the demographics for each model vary enough to make the available data difficult to put in to context against other models.



-------------------------------------


Dayum- sorry for the little 'no ABS' rant. It's just annoying that the media paints the picture of "domestic= unsafe and they knew it when they sold the gas guzzler to you/ imports= safe, reliable and great fuel economy.". But I shouldn't take out my frustrations in this thread.



(note to 93JeepCherokee- GM made four wheel ABS standard on every vehicle they sold in the early 90s.- even a base Cavalier. They only stopped that recently, mainly so they could sell the base Cavalier and Aveo for less.)

[ifcar]

Did the Prizm and Metro have standard ABS, too?

"Accident rates did not change?

Hmm, I am curious how they determine these rates, and how many accidents happened because a vehicle did not have ABS."

http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?se...article_id=9036

None of us, including me, would ever have predicted such huge benefits for ESC. That's because predictions about the safety effects of new technologies have a poor track record. Take anti-lock brakes, for example. Everybody?magazine editors, industry engineers, NHTSA, and even the self-appointed Center for Auto Safety types?appreciated the benefits of ABS and expected a meaningful safety payoff. Yet despite this unanimity, no study has ever found that ABS has in any way reduced traffic accidents or fatalities.

[footoflead]

Note- all domestics trucks have had at least rear wheel ABS since the late 80s. Heck, even Mazda did. And my 88 F-150 still has working rear wheel ABS- since I already activated it in a panic stop.


Good job Toyota.

Our 97 supposedly had ABS but there were several times i locked all fours up (including the day were it said hello to mr tree and mr fence )...in a full size truck, now thats scary...


edit...but still not as bad as rolling a truck...glad your okay dude

[SargeMonkey]

That bites, if you can open the door... I say keep driving it. But then agian... Find someone to replace the glass with custom cut stuff. Good luck on the truck hunt.  

[thewizard16]

Note- all domestics trucks have had at least rear wheel ABS since the late 80s.

... as an option.

No. Standard.

Which 1989 domestic truck did not have rear wheel ABS standard?

A better thought is, how well do they work? The ABS on the Dakota I have (94) is completely useless. It kicks in when you don't expect, doesn't kick in when you do, and is only moderately successful when it does. I've had it looked at and they replaced a bunch of things until the system was basically new, so it's not the truck. Another annoyance is that if ONE fuse blows, the whole ABS system malfunctions and doesn't kick in when it is supposed to. This is not a very smart idea. My 92 Camry has ABS that is on several fuses, not dependent on one.

And.....?


So not having rear wheel ABS  standard on a light in the rear pickup is better than having it that after ten years it may need service? I fail to see your point, especially since his model year 2000 did not have ABS.


Either safety matters, or it does not. The domestic put standard rear wheel ABS on their truck a long time ago, because it made a real world difference. But this difference doesn't show up in NHTSA or IIHS testing. I guess the tests are all that matter in real world safety, so the manufacturers should only design for those tests.

Either you didn't read my post, or you didn't understand. We took it for service, they replaced everything and it still does that. I've also driven a 2001 Dakota that had brakes that behaved very much the same way. My point wasn't about whether or not it had ABS, it was about whether or not some of the ABS systems were worth having. Yes, I definitely think it should be a standard feature, but I also think 4-wheel ABS should be standard, regardless of whether it's 2WD or not. When your front wheels lock and your back ones don't (which is relatively common) you still don't end up where you want to after you've stopped sliding.