The Future Is Electrified For Mazda MX-5 Miata, Hybrid eFuel Model In The Works

[cawimmer430]

There goes the passion, the fun and the driving experience... 



The Future Is Electrified For Mazda MX-5 Miata, Hybrid eFuel Model In The Works

Mazda has confirmed that they aim to offer an electrified version of the Miata by the end of the decade. The report stems from the Japanese automaker's announcement on Thursday, in which they announced the next stage of its product development.

While the announcement centered around a plethora of new models—including the hotly anticipated Mazda 6 replacement with a rear-wheel-drive chassis and straight-six engine—Mazda did let slip that the next-generation roadster was to be included. However, it wasn't clear whether this meant that the Miata was to become a full-on Battery-EV or remain an electrified version with a hybrid, or mild-hybrid drivetrain.

However, a later follow-up question during a Q&A by Kuruma News saw managing executive officer Takeji Kojima confirm that at least one version of the next Miata will remain with an internal combustion engine. "For customers who have purchased the Roadster so far, we will provide an internal combustion engine that uses biofuel such as eFuel," said Kojima. It was similarly confirmed that the Miata is a part of Mazda's electrification plans, meaning that it will involve some form of hybrid tech.

Efules, or biofuels, have been generating quite a bit of buzz around themselves of late, with Porsche investing heavily in the tech, including it in their racing program. These fuels offer a low-impact way of keeping combustion cars on the road with no modifications, while Porsche has also argued that eFuels could be as green as EVs if the whole life cycle of the vehicle is considered.

This doesn't quite rule out a Battery-EV version of the Miata – a model which could very well make sense with Mazda's proposed Skyactiv EV scalable architecture. However, a comment from Ichiro Hirose, Senior Managing Executive Officer, Oversight of R&D and Cost Innovation, may shed some light on why some may not expect an EV Miata anytime soon.

According to the report, while confirming that the Miata will be electrified, he alluded to the electrification process as one that will value ​​the DNA of the Roadster as a lightweight sports car. With weight still a major factor of EVs, the electrification plans could very well end with just the hybrid version.

No concrete timeframe has been announced as yet for an "NE" version of the Miata, with some expecting the current ND generation to stick around for several more years. There may even be an interim ICE model produced before an electrified Miata hits the showrooms.



Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2021/06/the-future-is-electrified-for-mazda-mx-5-miata-hybrid-efuel-model-in-the-works/

[12,000 RPM]

There goes the passion, the fun and the driving experience... 

Respectfully, Miatas have never had amazing engines. Stop being so closed minded about what a good driving experience is.

[Laconian]

Respectfully, Miatas have never had amazing engines. Stop being so closed minded about what a good driving experience is.

Miatas are all about being lightweight though, which would be hard given the state of EV tech today. They gave themselves a 8 year time horizon so it probably won't be a big deal.

[12,000 RPM]

Miatas are all about being lightweight though, which would be hard given the state of EV tech today. They gave themselves a 8 year time horizon so it probably won't be a big deal.

The Miata's focus on light weight can become a virtuous cycle for EVs. The less it weighs, the less batteries it will need. The less batteries it needs, the less it will weigh. Lather, rinse, repeat  Plus the low CoG will make it feel more nimble than the weight suggests. I'm optimistic.

[CaminoRacer]

Yeah the weight would be the only real drawback. An electric motor would be nicer than the majority of Miata engines past

The packaging of the battery would be important too. Skateboard platforms tend to raise the seating position which is lame for a sports car

[cawimmer430]

Respectfully, Miatas have never had amazing engines. Stop being so closed minded about what a good driving experience is.

What's the reason pretty much all Miata owners here give for having bought the car in the first place?

They want a fun DRIVING MACHINE. What makes the Miata fun? Aside from the good handling characteristics, the MANUAL TRANSMISSION and perhaps as a secondary characteristic some ENGINE NOISE.

Will an EV Miata offer this? Fake engine noises maybe. A manual transmission? Of course not. So the Miata will end up being a soulless EV that might be fast and the weight distribution of the batteries and electric motors will make it handle even better, but that DRIVER INVOLVEMENT FACTOR is gone.

[CaminoRacer]

From someone who owns an EV and a Miata, the Bolt's 200hp motor is nicer than the Miata 2.0L. Can't hear the engine with stock mufflers anyway. And zero transmission > manual transmission. Power on demand without worrying about what gear you're in is great.

[Laconian]

Top down thrills, great handling, lively steering, a feeling of connection with the road. All those traits would remain intact.

Manual transmissions are basically dead, as sad as that makes me. Barely anyone knows how to use them anymore, not in the States at least. If I'm going to have an autotragic I would prefer the low end torque of an electric motor.

[SJ_GTI]

I plan to keep my current ICE convertible for the rest of my life. I'm looking forward to electrified sports cars though. I'd love to see Miata enginerds take a crack at making one...if any major manufacturer can build in fun to in EV it might be those folks.

[Laconian]

Yeah the Tesla Roadster sounds like such a bore

[12,000 RPM]

What's the reason pretty much all Miata owners here give for having bought the car in the first place?

They want a fun DRIVING MACHINE. What makes the Miata fun? Aside from the good handling characteristics, the MANUAL TRANSMISSION and perhaps as a secondary characteristic some ENGINE NOISE.

Will an EV Miata offer this? Fake engine noises maybe. A manual transmission? Of course not. So the Miata will end up being a soulless EV that might be fast and the weight distribution of the batteries and electric motors will make it handle even better, but that DRIVER INVOLVEMENT FACTOR is gone.

There's more to driving engagement than twiddling a lever and pressing a third pedal. There is an electric go kart track near me and they are tons of fun. No less fun than ga karts of similar speed. Those gas motors are nothing to write home about either. I see the Miata being exactly the same. Respectfully you are just projecting your anger at environmentalists onto everything. It's not healthy IMO

[cawimmer430]

From someone who owns an EV and a Miata, the Bolt's 200hp motor is nicer than the Miata 2.0L. Can't hear the engine with stock mufflers anyway. And zero transmission > manual transmission. Power on demand without worrying about what gear you're in is great.

Aren't you a fan of manual transmissions?

I totally get the arguments for EVs, BUT I just can't picture an EV as making a fun or interesting sports car. Any car can be made fast, heck we even have a few Diesel sports cars which are fast. But a sports car is also about emotions and here the ICE has in my opinion an advantage over EVs. The build-up of torque, the engine note, the way the transmission shifts (whatever it is - M/T, CVT, DCT etc.) etc. are all factors which add drama to the experience.

Today an Audi e-Tron GT zoomed past me and to my surprise it had fake exterior engine noises a la Porsche Taycan. I just didn't buy it or was fooled by it.

[cawimmer430]

Top down thrills, great handling, lively steering, a feeling of connection with the road. All those traits would remain intact.

Manual transmissions are basically dead, as sad as that makes me. Barely anyone knows how to use them anymore, not in the States at least. If I'm going to have an autotragic I would prefer the low end torque of an electric motor.

I would never opt for a manual transmission anyway as I find them to be a pain to live with in a daily driver. But maybe if I had a sports car in my garage like a Miata or a classic British roadster etc., then an M/T is a must.

Luckily I come from the generation which overwhelmingly could still drive a car (aka a manual transmission and also drive good without all of these electronic nannies).

[cawimmer430]

Respectfully you are just projecting your anger at environmentalists onto everything. It's not healthy IMO

Not really. Personally I am of the opinion that EVs are just not ready for the masses at this point in time. The electric motor is not the issue here; it's efficient. It's the poor energy density of the batteries which is the real issue, plus the long charging times (if you want to preserve battery life). When these issues are solved, then I could see myself eventually moving to an EV.

I'll still miss the engine noise of the ICE.

[Laconian]

Your glum future is the present day reality in the USA:
* Lots of cars are now F/I four cylinders which, as a whole,sound pretty lame. BMW has been "symposing" ICE excitement through the speakers for years.
* M/Ts are almost completely absent from the US market.
* The majority of elect to drive cars which ride high, have lots of sound insulation, feature numb steering, suffer from massive blindspots, and are just awful to drive overall.

[AutobahnSHO]

If they keep the Miata focus and build a tiny electric go-kart I'd be all for it! I'd need at least 60miles of range to commute every day.

And really that's what the Miata is- a tiny 2seat vehicle with good crumple zones and nimble handling. A street legal go-kart!

[12,000 RPM]

Your glum future is the present day reality in the USA:
* Lots of cars are now F/I four cylinders which, as a whole,sound pretty lame. BMW has been "symposing" ICE excitement through the speakers for years.
* M/Ts are almost completely absent from the US market.
* The majority of elect to drive cars which ride high, have lots of sound insulation, feature numb steering, suffer from massive blindspots, and are just awful to drive overall.

Yeah I've been saying muffled low revving 4 poppers pretty much make the case to move to EVs ASAP. Frankly a lot of the turbo 6s and 8s aren't much better aurally.

Wimmer you should drive an EV when you get the chance.

[Laconian]

Back in the early WRX days I used to think that turbo 4s were great, but they've taken over _everything_..

[CaminoRacer]

Back in the early WRX days I used to think that turbo 4s were great, but they've taken over _everything_..

Rally car 4 cylinders are amazing.

Street car 4 cylinders are not.

[FoMoJo]

Turbo 4s were/are an alternative to hybrid (gas/electric).  They are quite capable of excellent fuel efficiency unless driven by speed demons; as exampled by Wimmer's father.

[Laconian]

They're quite good at a lot of things, but high revving sonorous ICE driving pleasure? Not as much.

[CaminoRacer]

They're quite good at a lot of things, but high revving sonorous ICE driving pleasure? Not as much.

The 1.4L turbo Cruze's are pretty good for driving around town and on the highway, decent grunt without seeming like you're straining it and the transmission programming is pretty good. But they're not exciting.

[Laconian]

The 1.4L turbo Cruze's are pretty good for driving around town and on the highway, decent grunt without seeming like you're straining it and the transmission programming is pretty good. But they're not exciting.

Much much much better than N/A Ecotec.

[12,000 RPM]

Turbo 4s were/are an alternative to hybrid (gas/electric).  They are quite capable of excellent fuel efficiency unless driven by speed demons; as exampled by Wimmer's father.

Respectfully turbo 4s are no substitute for hybrids. Hell, I'm not sure they're good substitutes for V6s. My TLX (V6 AWD) gets better gas mileage than my Optima did (I4T FWD). But the horse left the stable long ago

[GoCougs]

Turbo proliferation was/is a ginormous scam, esp. for plebian applications.

[FoMoJo]

Respectfully turbo 4s are no substitute for hybrids. Hell, I'm not sure they're good substitutes for V6s. My TLX (V6 AWD) gets better gas mileage than my Optima did (I4T FWD). But the horse left the stable long ago

As mentioned, it depends on how you drive.  I've gotten close to 40 mpg in my Discovery Sport, highway driving.  It has a ZF-9 (9 speed) transmission and 2.0 T (EcoBoost).  Highway speeds, 110-120 kph, it's just bordering on boost, 1750 rpm..  In the city, it manages to keep the revs around 1500-1700, just below boost, but has a good surge when you need it, with barely noticeable turbo lag. 

Better in all ways compared to a 2.5 L Inline 4.  Power when you need it, economy when you don't.  Of course, the transmission and mapping are key.

Hybrids are good as well, but just more expensive and more complex.

[AutobahnSHO]

Turbo proliferation was/is a ginormous scam, esp. for plebian applications.

So are motors with 100+hp more than is actually "needed". But "MERRICUH!"   

The word turbo sounds sexy so WtP actually buy smaller motors with them attached.

[cawimmer430]

Your glum future is the present day reality in the USA:
* Lots of cars are now F/I four cylinders which, as a whole,sound pretty lame. BMW has been "symposing" ICE excitement through the speakers for years.
* M/Ts are almost completely absent from the US market.
* The majority of elect to drive cars which ride high, have lots of sound insulation, feature numb steering, suffer from massive blindspots, and are just awful to drive overall.

Can't speak for all 4-cylinder turbo cars but I love the motor in mine. Smooth, powerful and a great sound (at least to me).

I'm just saying that I think it's a mistake to electrify the Miata. Even Porsche has stated they're keeping the iconic 911 ICE-only and are researching synthetic carbon-free fuels for it.

[cawimmer430]

Wimmer you should drive an EV when you get the chance.

I have.

Tesla Model 3 Long Range and Model 3 Performance on the Autobahn and a Hyundai Kona EV (and also a Fuel-Cell Hyundai Nexo). The Teslas belonged to a client. I was helping him move them.

To be honest, I was not impressed with the Teslas. I mean yeah, the Performance is fast, but I found the acceleration brutal than enjoyable. I enjoy the torque-build-up in ICE engines. Both Model 3s suffered rapid battery depletion at a slow and constant 120 km/h on the Autobahn over a distance of only 30 km. Aside from the rapid acceleration, what makes a Tesla Model 3 Performance actually "fun"? With a sporty car I want engine noise as part of the emotional connection and experience, and EVs just fail here IMO.

What really annoyed me was the battery whine sound and the road noises from the hard suspension and possibly the tires fitted. In all honesty my ICE car is quieter than these Model 3s - both my motor and my suspension/tires. At high speeds on the Autobahn it's not so much the motor noises which I hear but the wind noises.

Back to the original topic, I think the Miata needs to remain ICE. They can offer an EV variant but the purists will be up in arms if the Miata is EV-only without some emotional engine noise and driving connection via the M/T.

[12,000 RPM]

Business wise purists have shown they don't matter. They didn't save natural aspiration. They didn't save manuals. They didn't save coupes and convertibles. They didn't save "quirky" cars or brands like SAAB. Etc. The only thing automakers have to lose is the favor of extremely opinionated people who were never going to buy their cars in the first place. As soon as you start saying "hey well why didnt you buy XYZ when it was new" the excuses start pouring out. Frankly I'm tired of it