Lotus Emira

[MX793]

I6 and V6 are completely different animals.

In terms of exhaust note and NVH, yes.  Either can sound good or thrashy depending on a number of factors.

In terms of power delivery, not inherently.

[SJ_GTI]

The S4's supercharged V6 felt similar to the BMW I6, just a lot more powerful. I don't recall it having much of an engine note though to be honest. Maybe they intentionally quieted because it didn't sound good. 

[Rich]

Huh. Okay. Not clear to me but fine. How do you know about the exhaust note?

Doesn't the Evora currently use the same supercharged V6?  And the turbo 4 is on a few mercs already

[cawimmer430]

The turbo 4-cylinder in my car is also available in the US in the A220/A220 4Matic where it is transversely mounted for FWD/AWD applications and known as M260 E20 DE LA. It's also available in the US in the W213 E-Class and the new W206 C-Class where it is longitudinally mounted for RWD applications and thus named M264 E20 DE LA.

In other markets that engine is also in the S-Class, GLC and CLS.

Remember, that's the same engine found in the A35 AMG 4Matic with some modifications to handle the extra power and torque.

[12,000 RPM]

Huh. Okay. Not clear to me but fine. How do you know about the exhaust note?

As a rule modern I4Ts just don't sound good..... this is why damn near all the performance cars with them get fake noise piped in

The V6 is def the superior powertrain... not even close

But if we're being frank this thing is just a warmed over Evora. Anyone who didn't buy one of those isn't gonna buy one of these either

[MX793]

As a rule modern I4Ts just don't sound good..... this is why damn near all the performance cars with them get fake noise piped in

The V6 is def the superior powertrain... not even close

But if we're being frank this thing is just a warmed over Evora. Anyone who didn't buy one of those isn't gonna buy one of these either

Fake noise is pumped in because turbos muffle the engine (multiple TC cars like the Neon SRT and Fiat 500 Abarth have no mufflers, which is only legally possible because the turbo attenuates noise levels), especially intake induction sounds which are what you typically hear in the cabin.

[MrH]

Why are you saying this is a warmed over Evora?

[12,000 RPM]

Because it is

Chassis, (V6) powertrain, hard points, wheelbase... all "very similar". Not a bad thing.... everybody is moving to "forever" platforms and Lotus is broke. They updated what they needed to just like with the 400Z. Eh maybe not quite enough (V6 needs more power and a DCT option IMO) but they are doing what they can

[MX793]

Because it is

Chassis, (V6) powertrain, hard points, wheelbase... all "very similar". Not a bad thing.... everybody is moving to "forever" platforms and Lotus is broke. They updated what they needed to just like with the 400Z. Eh maybe not quite enough (V6 needs more power and a DCT option IMO) but they are doing what they can

The S550 Mustang has the same wheelbase, overall length, and powertrain as the S197.  The two chassis are completely different.

Looking at profiles of the Evora against the Emira, the A pillar (a hard point) is pushed significantly further forward relative to the front axle in the Emira.

[MrH]

Because it is

Chassis, (V6) powertrain, hard points, wheelbase... all "very similar". Not a bad thing.... everybody is moving to "forever" platforms and Lotus is broke. They updated what they needed to just like with the 400Z. Eh maybe not quite enough (V6 needs more power and a DCT option IMO) but they are doing what they can

It's a new chassis.  The 400Z is not.

[r0tor]

New factory as well to build them

[Raza]

(V6 needs more power and a DCT option IMO)

It doesn't need more power or a DCT.

[12,000 RPM]

It doesn't need more power or a DCT.

It does if they want them to sell in 2022

[Soup DeVille]

More power, maybe.

Has a DCT ever been a make or break thing on a car? For sales, I mean.

[MX793]

It does if they want them to sell in 2022

It weighs less than a Coxster and the base engine will have slightly more power than the Coxster S and the V6 significantly more power than the Coxster S.  This is a sub $100k car, the performance level is plenty.

[Raza]

It does if they want them to sell in 2022

Depends on the price point, doesn't it?

[Raza]

More power, maybe.

Has a DCT ever been a make or break thing on a car? For sales, I mean.

Well, depends. In the rarified air, fake manuals saved companies like Ferrari and Lamborghini.  They allowed them to make increasingly stupidly highly powerful cars and put them in the hands of the people who can actually afford them rather than people who can actually drive them. Just set your manettino to "Old guy driving around town" and see the TCS/ESP go to maximum and the transmission go into fully automatic mode. 

[Soup DeVille]

Well, depends. In the rarified air, fake manuals saved companies like Ferrari and Lamborghini.  They allowed them to make increasingly stupidly highly powerful cars and put them in the hands of the people who can actually afford them rather than people who can actually drive them. Just set your manettino to "Old guy driving around town" and see the TCS/ESP go to maximum and the transmission go into fully automatic mode. 

I see DCT buyers as two types; those that want manuals, but will be OK with a DCT, and those that want automatics and see the DCT as a high-end sort of automatic. In neither case do either especially want the DCT.

Carmakers however, get to sell DCT equipped cars and retain the bench racing cred of having the quicker car, while not getting the warranty issues the plague light flywheel high-HP high revving engines with standard transmissions (see Carrera GT), while being able to offer only 1 transmission instead of two.

[MrH]

You're saying OEMs are avoiding manuals because of warranty issues, as seen in a hyper car that they made 1200 of? 

[Soup DeVille]

You're saying OEMs are avoiding manuals because of warranty issues, as seen in a hyper car that they made 1200 of? 

No, I'm talking about sub-100k sports cars just like the one we're talking about.

But also; yes. Small run cars have even less justification to have multiple transmission options.

[Submariner]

I see DCT buyers as two types; those that want manuals, but will be OK with a DCT, and those that want automatics and see the DCT as a high-end sort of automatic. In neither case do either especially want the DCT.

Carmakers however, get to sell DCT equipped cars and retain the bench racing cred of having the quicker car, while not getting the warranty issues the plague light flywheel high-HP high revving engines with standard transmissions (see Carrera GT), while being able to offer only 1 transmission instead of two.

Damn I was just about to buy a Carrera GT but those problems you've mentioned have officially scared me off.

[Soup DeVille]

Damn I was just about to buy a Carrera GT but those problems you've mentioned have officially scared me off.

I didn't mention the GT because of the expense of owning or making them, but because of the engineering problems when making a manual for higher powered cars in general; and that being that drivers don't know how to drive them and blame the manufacturer.