Chipmakers to carmakers: Time to get out of the semiconductor Stone Age

[Morris Minor]

This company, 3IS, tears down & analyzes automotive electrical systems. They looked at the ID4, Model Y, & Mach E.
Talking on Munro's channel:

https://youtu.be/ZRkm6-bBk4U

[r0tor]

What's T in this case? What's the size of the sampling window?

dT is the sampling window... Usually configurable by the controls engineer.

In that equation Ti and Td would be the integral and proportional scalars

[GoCougs]

dT is the sampling window... Usually configurable by the controls engineer.

In that equation Ti and Td would be the integral and proportional scalars

What about the proportional term (i.e., w/out dt)?

[r0tor]

What about the proportional term (i.e., w/out dt)?

I thought that was pretty self explanatory from the equation...

[GoCougs]

I thought that was pretty self explanatory from the equation...

Doesn't appear that way to me.

[Morris Minor]

The automakers' reluctance to move on to up-to-date designs & is highly emblematic of underlying weakness. They want to stick with old technology, continuity, the things they know, the path of least resistance.
Some of these corporations are coming to the end of their natural life cycles.
The railroads were at their most advanced, impressive and glorious in the 1930s. Nobody knew it, but they had already begun to die.

[r0tor]

Seems like Tesla took a different direction with the model 3 and have most of all the body control stuff coming out of only 3 modules

https://jalopnik.com/how-tesla-made-the-model-3-better-than-the-model-s-1828052113

[AutobahnSHO]

Seems like Tesla took a different direction with the model 3 and have most of all the body control stuff coming out of only 3 modules

https://jalopnik.com/how-tesla-made-the-model-3-better-than-the-model-s-1828052113

Yup, trading hardware headaches for software headaches. And as stuff gets tied into the interwebz, look for more hackz

[MrH]

The automakers' reluctance to move on to up-to-date designs & is highly emblematic of underlying weakness. They want to stick with old technology, continuity, the things they know, the path of least resistance.
Some of these corporations are coming to the end of their natural life cycles.
The railroads were at their most advanced, impressive and glorious in the 1930s. Nobody knew it, but they had already begun to die.

There's a validation cost and time associated with changing architectures like this.  Besides more capacity flexibility at the supplier, I'm not sure what benefit you're really missing out on.

You seem to think less is better, and by not going to the latest tech, they're dinosaurs.  But as an end customer, who cares what the underlying architecture for your seat controls?  Does the seat work reliably for a long time?  Ok, perfect.

I agree, some of what Tesla does pushes the industry in certain ways, but it's not always a good thing.  Tesla's lack of validation protocols gets you more simple chip architecture.  It also gets you snapping control arms, fires, melting infotainment screens, etc.  As always: Tesla's competitive advantage isn't technology itself, it's risk tolerance.

[r0tor]

There's a validation cost and time associated with changing architectures like this.  Besides more capacity flexibility at the supplier, I'm not sure what benefit you're really missing out on.

You seem to think less is better, and by not going to the latest tech, they're dinosaurs.  But as an end customer, who cares what the underlying architecture for your seat controls?  Does the seat work reliably for a long time?  Ok, perfect.

I agree, some of what Tesla does pushes the industry in certain ways, but it's not always a good thing.  Tesla's lack of validation protocols gets you more simple chip architecture.  It also gets you snapping control arms, fires, melting infotainment screens, etc.  As always: Tesla's competitive advantage isn't technology itself, it's risk tolerance.

The problem is currently you have tons of production on hold for what in many cases is a simple module who's function could easily be handled by the BCM.... and then future support for all these modules (most of which are VIN locked) to keep cars on the road.

[MrH]

You act as if they would be immune to chip shortages right now if they were on a newer architecture.  That isn't true.  The service comment is a non-issue.  They aren't wear parts and don't need replacing because they went through proper validation

[r0tor]

You act as if they would be immune to chip shortages right now if they were on a newer architecture.  That isn't true.  The service comment is a non-issue.  They aren't wear parts and don't need replacing because they went through proper validation

Modules don't fail?  Really?

[MrH]

Modules don't fail?  Really?

Lower failure rate than Tesla's eMMC issue

[r0tor]

Lower failure rate than Tesla's eMMC issue

Funny

[Morris Minor]

Margins on cars you can build quickly, cheaply, and deliver to customers in exchange for cash... are higher than those on complex assemblies that sit incomplete and unsold on back lots. Having to stop production is a competitive disadvantage.

[MrH]

Margins on cars you can build quickly, cheaply, and deliver to customers in exchange for cash... are higher than those on complex assemblies that sit incomplete and unsold on back lots. Having to stop production is a competitive disadvantage.

Are you telling me your gut instincts in cost reduction is more accurate than the OEMs with hundreds of cost engineers evaluating the same thing?

[SJ_GTI]

Are you telling me your gut instincts in cost reduction is more accurate than the OEMs with hundreds of cost engineers evaluating the same thing?

CarSPIN: Yes!

[Morris Minor]

Are you telling me your gut instincts in cost reduction is more accurate than the OEMs with hundreds of cost engineers evaluating the same thing?

The OEMs have cost-engineered themselves into production halts. They don't think.

[Soup DeVille]

The OEMs have cost-engineered themselves into production halts. They don't think.

Production halts right now are effecting multiple industries. You can't get fucking Lunchables or lemonade half the time. Is it any wonder that a complicated item like an automobile has trouble?

[MX793]

The OEMs have cost-engineered themselves into production halts. They don't think.

The circumstances of today are highly abnormal.  Under what we formerly understood as "normal", how the automotive industry operated was the most cost effective way to do things.  No one would have foreseen global shortages of this nature.

[MrH]

The OEMs have cost-engineered themselves into production halts. They don't think.

It takes 4000+ parts to make a car.  It's amazing they get any car made ever.

Production halts right now are effecting multiple industries. You can't get fucking Lunchables or lemonade half the time. Is it any wonder that a complicated item like an automobile has trouble?

It's probably the most complicated assembly out there.  Auto supply chain demolishes most industries in terms of cost efficiency and effectiveness.

[shp4man]

Be nice if we hadn't offshored everything to make a damned addition 10 cents in profits. Ahh, well. Trump tried I guess.

[CaminoRacer]

I buy truckloads of plastic bottles, among other things. Plastic industry is all around the gulf and I get an email every 6 weeks with some excuse for raising prices due to the Texas winter storm, hurricane, blahblahblah. Domestic industry has plenty of their own problems and delays. The plastic industry needs to move away from the damn gulf

[MrH]

I buy truckloads of plastic bottles, among other things. Plastic industry is all around the gulf and I get an email every 6 weeks with some excuse for raising prices due to the Texas winter storm, hurricane, blahblahblah. Domestic industry has plenty of their own problems and delays. The plastic industry needs to move away from the damn gulf

That's where the oil is.  All petroleum based things are struggling.  Been a big shortage in polyurethane foams too.

We've been having a lot of pharma material shortages too.  Capacity and validation of secondary suppliers is insanely expensive and timely.  It's so hard to capacity plan raw materials.  Part of it is because they all suck at supply chain

[CaminoRacer]

That's where the oil is.

[MrH]

It's a shame Biden got confused you shutdown the wrong pipeline.