A4 compared to 3er

saxonyron · February 07, 2006, 08:38:16 AM

MTL_A4, I'm in the same exact boat as you. A4 vs 330xi. Playing with options, the A4 consistently comes in $2,000 to $3,000 less. Not a huge amount, but I'm trying to come to grips with the slightly better driving dynamics of the BMW vs the Audi's better style and interior and my own personal history. Plus, like it or not, the BMW comes with more baggage than an Audi. I'm a contractor who has to park in front of my client's houses - they don't seem to notice the Audi, but we all know what most people think of BMW owners - rich bastages. My friend has a lowly C240 and ML320. He seems to like the snob appeal, but I know that people will judge whether it's accurate or not.

SJ_GTI · February 07, 2006, 09:06:30 AM

Have you driven the A4 3.2 quattro yet?

I wonder if it feels like the A4 2.0TQ or if its noticably heavier? Honestly I didn't feel any difference in handling between the 325i and 330i despite the extra weight.

For me price won't be a final decider, more of a tie-breaker. I like the 3er more than my car, but driving the A4 2.0TQ or A4 3.2Q with sport package could change my mind. I don't expect it to match the 3er, but it can make up for its flaws in other areas (more stable in foul weather, nicer styling inside and out, more comfortable seats, etc...). Only some decent seat time can really answer the question. I generally don't put too much stock in mag reviews because too often I have read their reviews and either the reviews are substntially different or my own opinion of the car is different than all the reviews. And in the end my opinion is more important than theirs.

Lebowski · February 07, 2006, 04:40:31 PM

QuoteLebowski, when's the Vette coming in? You must be a little eager.

I pick it up Feb 24. Eager would be an understatement - the wait is killing me!

Lebowski · February 07, 2006, 04:45:07 PM

QuoteI can only assume they had some decent long-term hedging contracts to offset the currency difference.

I think Porsche was the only major European automaker with a big hedging program, and I think even those have rolled off by now.

850CSi · February 07, 2006, 07:41:04 PM

Quote
QuoteLebowski, when's the Vette coming in? You must be a little eager.
I pick it up Feb 24. Eager would be an understatement - the wait is killing me!

Hehe... The wait would be killing me too.

As far as the topic... No doubt 3-Series.

I haven't driven the new A4. My dad drove the A4 and 3-Series back-to-back and said that the 3 was clearly superior as far as drive and handling (He said that my old A4 handled better than that A4). However, that A4 didn't have the sport suspension so I think it would be a bit closer to the 3 with the stiffer suspension.

The A4 is around 200 lbs. heavier than the 3-Series, depending on how both are configured.

saxonyron · February 07, 2006, 09:21:21 PM

QuoteHave you driven the A4 3.2 quattro yet?

I wonder if it feels like the A4 2.0TQ or if its noticably heavier? Honestly I didn't feel any difference in handling between the 325i and 330i despite the extra weight.

For me price won't be a final decider, more of a tie-breaker. I like the 3er more than my car, but driving the A4 2.0TQ or A4 3.2Q with sport package could change my mind. I don't expect it to match the 3er, but it can make up for its flaws in other areas (more stable in foul weather, nicer styling inside and out, more comfortable seats, etc...). Only some decent seat time can really answer the question. I generally don't put too much stock in mag reviews because too often I have read their reviews and either the reviews are substntially different or my own opinion of the car is different than all the reviews. And in the end my opinion is more important than theirs.

I'm in the early stages of shopping. I haven't gotten to any dealers yet, other than just window shopping. I'll be test driving a few cars in the next few days. On paper, I'm even leaning towards the 2.0T - it apparently is more similar to my current A6 2.7T in characteristics. The 2.0 is only 0.5 sec slower to 60 than the 3.2, plus costs $4k+ less. That would send me checking out the 325xi, too. Planning to check out Infiniti G35 too. No matter what, I'm sold on the AWD concept.

You're right about the mag reviews. It's good information, but you'd be crazy to accept any of that at face value. Sometimes C&D gets silly with their complaints, which really only are an issue driving at 10/10ths. In reality, the car may be perfect at 8/10ths, and still damn fine at 10/10ths, but they are basically doing their job by nitpicking and highliting flaws that not 1 in a hundred drivers may ever experience. But then again, they gave the crown to the 3 series even after the car kept malfunctioning and did everything but turn into Stephen King's "Christine."

TBR · February 08, 2006, 12:06:28 AM

Keep in mind that we will be getting a completely new G35 for MY2007. It should be debuting in a few weeks at the NYC show. Also, what about the IS250 or S60R?

saxonyron · February 08, 2006, 01:35:42 AM

QuoteKeep in mind that we will be getting a completely new G35 for MY2007. It should be debuting in a few weeks at the NYC show. Also, what about the IS250 or S60R?

Good point on the G-ride. Too bad I can't wait - I'm probably going to move fairly quickly on the buy. The A6 has almost 120k miles, it's still running great, and I have a buyer with cash in hand. But you never know - it ain't over till the fat lady sings! The Lexus and Volvo don't move me. I don't mind them - just not my style.

ifcar · February 08, 2006, 04:39:57 AM

"You're right about the mag reviews. It's good information, but you'd be crazy to accept any of that at face value. Sometimes C&D gets silly with their complaints, which really only are an issue driving at 10/10ths. In reality, the car may be perfect at 8/10ths, and still damn fine at 10/10ths, but they are basically doing their job by nitpicking and highliting flaws that not 1 in a hundred drivers may ever experience. But then again, they gave the crown to the 3 series even after the car kept malfunctioning and did everything but turn into Stephen King's 'Christine.'"

It wouldn't really be fair for them to judge the 3-Series line against issues suffered by one (preproduction?) test car. They would have had to basically run the same test again later. It's not as if every 3-Series has those issues, and they spent enough time with the car to determine what they did like about it.

saxonyron · February 08, 2006, 06:45:08 AM

Quote"You're right about the mag reviews. It's good information, but you'd be crazy to accept any of that at face value. Sometimes C&D gets silly with their complaints, which really only are an issue driving at 10/10ths. In reality, the car may be perfect at 8/10ths, and still damn fine at 10/10ths, but they are basically doing their job by nitpicking and highliting flaws that not 1 in a hundred drivers may ever experience. But then again, they gave the crown to the 3 series even after the car kept malfunctioning and did everything but turn into Stephen King's 'Christine.'"

It wouldn't really be fair for them to judge the 3-Series line against issues suffered by one (preproduction?) test car. They would have had to basically run the same test again later. It's not as if every 3-Series has those issues, and they spent enough time with the car to determine what they did like about it.

Agreed, but the C&D staff is quite smitten with BMW's, and for good reason. It's just that they seem to be selectively upset over QC issues. Some makers don't get the benefit of the doubt. I remember one review a couple years back on a Ford or Merc that had some minor but annoying snafu with the glove box light (IIRC). The writer scolded Ford saying something to the effect that "US automakers will always be playing catchup and losing the game as long as they keep building cars that embarass their owners. People don't want to spend $30k on a new car to have their friends raising their eyebrows and smirking about silly defects."

Now I'm a German car fan, but I'm honest enough to admit that the Germans have been amazingly adept at coming up with embarassing defects and crappy fixes on $50k cars.

Raza · February 08, 2006, 08:11:11 AM

Tim brought up a good solution. You live in New England, and you drive a midsized, AWD, turbo sedan with 250bhp. Why not replace it with a midsized, AWD, turbo sedan with 300bhp? If you want stealth, you can't beat a Volvo. You won't pay markedly less or more than you would for a rear drive 330i, and you'll get more grunt than even an A4 3.2 Quattro. Plus, if you want a car that won't break or put you to sleep, you probably can't beat a Volvo.

I'm voting for the S60R here. Or a V70R, if you're man enough. But then again, you're probably not.

TBR · February 08, 2006, 09:24:41 AM

He said that he can't see himself in a Volvo, and I can understand that as there are certain cars I feel the same way about (for example, the Corvette).

What about a Legacy GT B-spec? It may actually be the closest thing to the old A6 2.7t currently on the market.

Colonel Cadillac · February 08, 2006, 11:05:10 AM

Howabout the S4? It has exactly the characteristics you are looking for.

SJ_GTI · February 08, 2006, 01:04:44 PM

QuoteHowabout the S4? It has exactly the characteristics you are looking for.

That's what I keep reminding him.

Raza · February 08, 2006, 02:09:25 PM

I actually just drove a Legacy 2.5GT and it was phenomenal. I liked it better than the last A6 2.7T I drove, actually. Faster too.

Speed_Racer · February 08, 2006, 03:41:03 PM

QuoteI actually just drove a Legacy 2.5GT and it was phenomenal. I liked it better than the last A6 2.7T I drove, actually. Faster too.

Lucky.

Raza · February 08, 2006, 04:18:05 PM

Quote
QuoteI actually just drove a Legacy 2.5GT and it was phenomenal. I liked it better than the last A6 2.7T I drove, actually. Faster too.
Lucky.

I think I'm going to mosey back and drive a Forester 2.5XT.

Speed_Racer · February 08, 2006, 05:13:25 PM

Quote
Quote
QuoteI actually just drove a Legacy 2.5GT and it was phenomenal. I liked it better than the last A6 2.7T I drove, actually. Faster too.
Lucky.
I think I'm going to mosey back and drive a Forester 2.5XT.

Lucky.

saxonyron · February 08, 2006, 05:53:43 PM

Mtl_A4 and Col. Cadillac - the S4 would fit the bill for sure, except the price would kill me. I can't justify a $55k pocket rocket, but it sure as hell would be fun. As for the Volvos, I'm sure they're fine, but just not for me. I have a Swedish car allergy. I've had friends with Volvos and Saabs in the past and while they're great cars, none of them have clicked with me. I like the more sports oriented edge of the Audi/BMW's. The Swedes may have that now, but my biases are already set.

The Japanese offerings I need to sort through. Most Japanese cars are too small for my 38" inseam. Even my friend's Q45 is a very tight fit. The Japanese seem to build their cockpits for people who are average sized at best.

Raza · February 08, 2006, 06:02:19 PM

Drive the S60R. Give it a try.

850CSi · February 08, 2006, 08:49:47 PM

Oh, man... Add me to the list of S60R supporters. That is one hell of a car. Brown leather...

TBR · February 08, 2006, 08:51:24 PM

The blue leather looks much better imho.

Raza · February 08, 2006, 09:48:53 PM

The color of the leather depends on the color of the exterior. Black with blue would look pretty bad, I think. The only car we ever had with a blue interior was our midnight blue 300SD.

TBR · February 09, 2006, 09:57:00 AM

Of course. I personally would have to take a silver V70R with the blue leather (which is unusual as I am normally no fan of silver). In fact, if I had money and kids right now that is what I would be driving.

Raza · February 09, 2006, 04:00:26 PM

I'd take an S60R in black with Gobi Sand leather.

SJ_GTI · February 10, 2006, 08:22:02 AM

I've never driven it but the S60R has gotten some lackluster reviews. Poor (no) steering feedback, big turbo lag, etc...

Raza · February 10, 2006, 08:47:47 AM

QuoteI've never driven it but the S60R has gotten some lackluster reviews. Poor (no) steering feedback, big turbo lag, etc...

I haven't driven one either, and while I can believe the turbo lag (300bhp out of a five cylinder? There almost has to be!), I think some of the mags were unfair to it. I'll see if I can drive one soon.

Volvo put a lot of thought into this one. While driving, if you pull the handbrake, the car senses that you're trying to do a handbrake turn, and shuffles all the power from the rear to the front, to help pull you through. If they thought about that, I'm sure they wouldn't fall short in other areas (besides your normal AWD steering corruption).