Cybertruck

[AutobahnSHO]

My favorite is seeing an article which noted the Cybertruck is unibody "like the Ford Maverick".

[Laconian]

https://electrek.co/2023/11/30/tesla-cybertruck-range-extender-separate-battery-pack-bed/

You can get a big toolbox shaped battery pack installed in the payload for $16k in order to almost get the originally promised/hyped range. It uses about a third of the cargo capacity.

It can only be installed and removed at a service center.

[giant_mtb]

$16k? Wah.

[AutobahnSHO]

https://electrek.co/2023/11/30/tesla-cybertruck-range-extender-separate-battery-pack-bed/

You can get a big toolbox shaped battery pack installed in the payload for $16k in order to almost get the originally promised/hyped range. It uses about a third of the cargo capacity.

It can only be installed and removed at a service center.

[Laconian]

To be honest I like the idea of supplemental batteries but only if they can be easily installed and removed.

A semi permanent battery mounted way up high on a vehicle that's getting pretty poor mi/kWh is not great, though.

[Laconian]

Just saw the Camissa video. The steer by wire implementation looks impressive.

The ten trucks which have been "delivered" have a lot of beta testing ground to cover. That is an awful lot of new things to ship all at once. Each quirk is a potential risk.

[giant_mtb]

To be honest I like the idea of supplemental batteries but only if they can be easily installed and removed.

Agreed. A supplemental battery would be great for when you have road trips planned.

But on the other side of the coin...if you are planning a road trip, you're also likely to be carrying more people and/or stuff than usual, so suddenly you have less space, while also needing more...

[Laconian]

Agreed. A supplemental battery would be great for when you have road trips planned.

But on the other side of the coin...if you are planning a road trip, you're also likely to be carrying more people and/or stuff than usual, so suddenly you have less space, while also needing more...

Yeah, it's that EV efficiency spiral all over again.

[r0tor]

It probably weighs 500 lbs so I can see why they would want a service shop installing it.

[giant_mtb]

It probably weighs 500 lbs so I can see why they would want a service shop installing it.

For sure. Most people don't have a chain hoist or a forklift layin' around.

[Laconian]

OK, how about battery rentals from a company like UHaul?

[veeman]

OK, how about battery rentals from a company like UHaul?

It will be cheaper and easier to just take the ICE Suburban sitting in the garage for the occasional longer trip rather than going to Uhaul and renting and having them install a range extender battery.  An extra 120 miles of range from range extender battery wouldn't be worth it to rent.  Plus I don't know how trustworthy a used range extender battery would be from Uhaul. 

[AutobahnSHO]

It's not just plopping in a battery and plugging it in. Gotta secure it to the truck but most importantly, hook up coolant hoses/ sensors too.

[565]

https://youtu.be/uefydJUbRhc?si=0hXWUyCbb-_i0DM1

[Laconian]

It's not just plopping in a battery and plugging it in. Gotta secure it to the truck but most importantly, hook up coolant hoses/ sensors too.

Good point, thermal management is definitely a Thing with these packs.

[GoCougs]

I have to admit, I am a bit impressed, esp. with the 800V architecture and SS body panels. It still just looks so goddamned bad though.

[GoCougs]

One also has to ponder the repair/maintenance drama and environmental toll that has always surrounded painted vehicles . Sure, SS is boring esp. if all other copies of the marque are the same, but still.

[565]

https://youtu.be/teRRk-0KHus?si=upiYQDa4qsKnU-cZ

I'm impressed with this lead cybertruck engineer actually knowing his guns.

[veeman]

Maybe police departments will start using the Cybertruck. Wonder how much more it would be to install bullet proof glass? Most police officers don't drive more than 200 miles a day.   

[Morris Minor]

I have to admit, I am a bit impressed, esp. with the 800V architecture and SS body panels. It still just looks so goddamned bad though.

The steer by wire is clever: 180° 170° turn on the steering wheel lock to lock. Echoes of the super quick steering on the Citroën SM  & Maserati Khamsin.

[giant_mtb]

Maybe police departments will start using the Cybertruck. Wonder how much more it would be to install bullet proof glass? Most police officers don't drive more than 200 miles a day.   

I would suspect a CT with bulletproof glass and all other necessary equipment would be out of the budget range for most police departments.  I imagine a bulletproof pane the size of that windshield alone would be many many thousands of dollars.

Other than that, though, how well do EVs "idle?"  A police car has to be "on" for an officer's entire 8-12 hour shift powering all of the equipment (computer, radio, radars, cameras, lights, etc) and also take care of climate control for the officer(s) inside of it. Plus driving, of course.

Like how much battery gets sucked up by air conditioning on hot days or the heater on cold days (where the battery life is already compromised by the cold).

I suppose with modern fast charging, going back to the station (or whatever local fast charger) for the occasional 10-15 minute top-off wouldn't be out of the question, just like they do at gas stations now...I imagine cops in ICE cop cars like to keep at least 1/4-1/2 a tank at all times to avoid running out if something comes up where lots of driving or multiple hours on a scene may be involved. ICEs can idle for a lonnnnnng time using very little fuel. Are EVs similar in that regard?

[Laconian]

On really cold or really hot days the car uses about a kilowatt hour per hour. So my car could idle for about two or three days.

[giant_mtb]

On really cold or really hot days the car uses about a kilowatt hour per hour. So my car could idle for about two or three days.

That's impressive.  Makes sense...I suppose EVs use an a/c compressor akin to what you'd find in a household window unit or refrigerator as opposed to the belt-driven units ICEs use?

How much does your "average" range tend to drop on really cold/hot days with the usual driving included?

[Laconian]

That's impressive.  Makes sense...I suppose EVs use an a/c compressor akin to what you'd find in a household window unit or refrigerator as opposed to the belt-driven units ICEs use?

How much does your "average" range tend to drop on really cold/hot days with the usual driving included?

It's a heat pump driven with a linear inverter from the high voltage pack. It's pretty efficient at pumping heat into the cabin and then running very slowly to maintain the temperature once the cabin's at the set point.

Hybrids, PHEVs, and EVs are all so much better at idling versus bare ICE drivetrains. The hybrid Police Interceptors have been wildly successful with police departments because they cut fuel costs so dramatically.

My range in the winter is about 20% worse than summer (3.7-4.0 summer, 3.0 winter). Some of that is climate control, but I think that all the drivetrain systems in general are less efficient when they're cold.

[Laconian]

I have to admit, I am a bit impressed, esp. with the 800V architecture and SS body panels. It still just looks so goddamned bad though.

800V is old hat for me by now but I am impressed by the change to 48V for the low voltage electronics.

The rest of the truck, especially the panels, is pretty repulsive to me. For all the talk about the truck being a radical, from-scratch rethink, it seems like a huge missed opportunity. They brag about never focus grouping their product but I don't see the Cybertruck as being particularly grounded for customers or use cases that actually exists in the real world. Throwing baseballs at body panels. Beating a 911 in a 1/8th mile drag race. Are those practical concerns that people actually care about? It's all purely a fashion statement.

It didn't have to end up like this. I could see, in an alternate universe, Tesla putting out a sensibly priced Maverick-alike, cleverly built for tradesmen and govt agencies, fully electrified and bristling with V2L outlets. I would have been all over that. Leave the long distance towing to the diesel trucks.

But instead of something clever and interesting and compelling, we have a wasted chance, a squandering of the public's attention, a failure of imagination.

(I'm pretty down about the Hummer EV too, it's definitely The Worst. The F150 Lightning is a sensible base hit but it just scratches at the surface of what's possible.)

[AutobahnSHO]

Maybe police departments will start using the Cybertruck. Wonder how much more it would be to install bullet proof glass? Most police officers don't drive more than 200 miles a day.   

A LOT...   You also have to reinforce every door panel, though that may be less necessary depending on how the stainless steel works and what is inside the doors...

[veeman]

For how great the initial reviews of this truck are, the main problem is the price. 80 grand (well ten dollars less than 80 grand which is the upper limit in price for a vehicle to qualify for the federal tax subsidy). So even if you get the federal tax subsidy, that's near 80 grand total price once you include state tax etc. At 5% apr for 60 months that's $1500/month.

Unlike other Tesla vehicles, the Cybertruck is also not going to be sold in Europe.

Musk: "we dug our own grave with Cybertruck"

Tesla will be fine.  Model 3 and Model Y, especially with recent updates, will continue to sell very well. I don't know if an 80 grand vehicle with likely extremely high auto body repair costs (and therefore high insurance costs) will sell > 100,000 a year.   

[r0tor]

For how great the initial reviews of this truck are, the main problem is the price. 80 grand (well ten dollars less than 80 grand which is the upper limit in price for a vehicle to qualify for the federal tax subsidy). So even if you get the federal tax subsidy, that's near 80 grand total price once you include state tax etc. At 5% apr for 60 months that's $1500/month.

Unlike other Tesla vehicles, the Cybertruck is also not going to be sold in Europe.

Musk: "we dug our own grave with Cybertruck"

Tesla will be fine.  Model 3 and Model Y, especially with recent updates, will continue to sell very well. I don't know if an 80 grand vehicle with likely extremely high auto body repair costs (and therefore high insurance costs) will sell > 100,000 a year.   

You can still get a $7500 lease credit... So the price ends up being in the meat of the premium "truck" market.

[565]

For how great the initial reviews of this truck are, the main problem is the price. 80 grand (well ten dollars less than 80 grand which is the upper limit in price for a vehicle to qualify for the federal tax subsidy). So even if you get the federal tax subsidy, that's near 80 grand total price once you include state tax etc. At 5% apr for 60 months that's $1500/month.

Unlike other Tesla vehicles, the Cybertruck is also not going to be sold in Europe.

Musk: "we dug our own grave with Cybertruck"

Tesla will be fine.  Model 3 and Model Y, especially with recent updates, will continue to sell very well. I don't know if an 80 grand vehicle with likely extremely high auto body repair costs (and therefore high insurance costs) will sell > 100,000 a year.   

Tesla will adjust prices based on demand. 

Other car manufacturers do it through their dealers with large discounts.  BMW famously does it through heavily subsidized leases.

Tesla sells direct and has to do it with very public price cuts or incentives.

Thus Tesla is one of the few car companies that has actually reduced prices over the years. 

A Tesla model S plaid now costs less (90k) than the performance trim did when it was introduced in 2012 (106k).  That's not even accounting for inflation. The original S performance had something like 414hp and 265 milez of range and the plaid has 1020hp and nearly 400 miles of range. 

The Model X also costs less, is far more powerful and has more range than when it was introduced.  Similar story for the 3 and Y when prices were cut by 10 to 15k.

On the Tesla forums they can pretty much predict when another price cut is coming by looking at the number of in inventory units.

Tesla has priced the cybertruck at a high price because it thinks it has the demand and they know supply will be low due to manufacturing challenges.  When/If production picks up and inventory piles up, the price cuts will come.

[AutobahnSHO]

Which is funny, as other companies do the opposite- start low and raise prices (profit also goes up as manufacturing cost goes down) as a model proves popular.