Rowan Atkinson feels he's been duped by EVs

[giant_mtb]

Because if governments around the world are hell-bent on banning ICE cars, EVs will NEED to be perfect for everyone.

This.

[AutobahnSHO]

Maverick, Escapes, something else I'm sure are hecho en Mexico.

[giant_mtb]

Maverick, Escapes, something else I'm sure are hecho en Mexico.

New Taco is a Mexican.

[CaminoRacer]

G20 BMWs too

[Morris Minor]

The argument will be that the planet is burning up, and if we are incapable of supplying the needed EVs, then let it be the Chinese; so be it.

As I've mentioned before, I'm pretty certain the lobbying from the established players to backtrack on the mandates will be deafening.
The diktats were put in place on the assumption that it would be traditional vehicle manufacturers that would deliver.
They haven't.
So hybrids it is.
They can do hybrids.
Can't they?

[r0tor]

We really should be pushing for regular hybrids at this stage of development if we cared about the planet.

[giant_mtb]

We really should be pushing for regular hybrids at this stage of development if we cared about the planet.

That's unacceptable to environmentalists and politicians.  The change must be drastic/complete and happen now.  There's no room for discussions of logical stepping stones.

[Morris Minor]

We really should be pushing for regular hybrids at this stage of development if we cared about the planet.

If we cared about the planet we'd also completely remove safety mandates: all those crush zones, side-intrusion beams and reinforced roof pillars are incredibly heavy and exact huge CO2 penalties. 

[FoMoJo]

We really should be pushing for regular hybrids at this stage of development if we cared about the planet.

I agree.  Hybrids, given the ongoing research and development, will/should become much more efficient both in their I/C and electric motivation as technology progresses.  As well, the I/C component may well become much more environmentally friendly as alternative "green" fuels are more available.

[GoCougs]

Welp, hybrids were given a good go for 20+ years, and WtP didn't really buy them either, unless it was a Toyota. They'll have the same limitations as EVs for widespread adoption (batteries, more electronics, high cost) just not so much.

[Morris Minor]

Hybrids are fine - Toyota's honed them to goodness.
But, with the plugins, if you actually plug them in, I can't help thinking that their gas engines spend most of their existence shut off. Cold deadweight. If you don't plug them in they just suck gas dragging the battery & motor around.

So I'd say go with a pure EV or a regular hybrid. 

[Laconian]

Hybrids are fine - Toyota's honed them to goodness.
But, with the plugins, if you actually plug them in, I can't help thinking that their gas engines spend most of their existence shut off. Cold deadweight.

You could say the same thing about your typical BEV in a suburb.

I've driven over 1000 miles this month and I don't think I've used more than 35% of the pack's capacity on any given day.

[SJ_GTI]

I think either way you are carrying extra weight/material around with a BEV or PHEV. Either way is still more efficient than a pure ICE vehicle.

Personally I think I'd prefer a pure EV. At least you can avoid having to do oil changes in the future (I do my own today because its more convenient than driving to a dealership or garage, but its still not fun).

[Morris Minor]

I think either way you are carrying extra weight/material around with a BEV or PHEV. Either way is still more efficient than a pure ICE vehicle.

Personally I think I'd prefer a pure EV. At least you can avoid having to do oil changes in the future (I do my own today because its more convenient than driving to a dealership or garage, but its still not fun).

Pure EV, and ICE rentals if you're uncomfortable about long haul trips.

[AutobahnSHO]

I read some comparison that PHEV really don't make sense economically compared to hybrids.

[Laconian]

I read some comparison that PHEV really don't make sense economically compared to hybrids.

It all depends on usage patterns, the PHEV price premium, and the price of gas in your state.

[r0tor]

PHEVs usually are averaging only 1-2 miles per KW which makes them pretty terrible.

[Laconian]

Because if governments around the world are hell-bent on banning ICE cars, EVs will NEED to be perfect for everyone.

Alternatively, we could just allow the engineers and scientists work out more practical and effective solutions, free from political interference.  But why would we want to do that, right? 

Do you think the bans will be implemented as-is? I'm fully expecting the dates to shift, but having aggressive targets is a great way to drive the necessary urgency and set the tone of long term schedules and investments.

[veeman]

I think pretty close to zero percent chance that bans of ICE will be implemented in the U.S. even in California.

Example Los Angeles is not very public transit friendly and < 50% of inhabitants own their own homes. 

It's ludicrous to think you can successfully ban new ICE cars with those facts on the ground. 

[Eye of the Tiger]

The EV charging infrastructure needs to be commercialized before an ICE ban forces it, or shit will hit fans

[Madman]

Do you think the bans will be implemented as-is? I'm fully expecting the dates to shift, but having aggressive targets is a great way to drive the necessary urgency and set the tone of long term schedules and investments.

The ICE ban date in the UK has already shifted from 2030 to 2035, and I fully expect it to be delayed again at some point.  Same goes for the EU's current 2035 ICE ban.  As that date approaches and cold hard reality smacks regulators in the face, even they will have to reluctantly admit their grandiose plans for an all-electric utopia on such a short timescale was naïve at best and foolishly asinine at worst.

Also consider in the next few years alternative technologies such as local on-site hydrogen production and carbon neutral synthetic fuels may very well ramp-up to the point of commercial viability and give the internal combustion engine a new lease on life.  Such innovation could very well render EVs a technological dead end in much the same way the internal combustion engine combined with the electric self starter consigned early EVs to redundancy by the 1920s.

We may soon be enjoying the benefits of these new technologies, assuming Western car manufacturers haven't all driven themselves into bankruptcy developing and building EVs nobody wants to buy.

I think pretty close to zero percent chance that bans of ICE will be implemented in the U.S. even in California.

Bingo!  An ICE ban in the US, even in California, would be political suicide for any politician stupid enough to even suggest such a thing.  The blowback from voters across the political spectrum would be swift and punishing.  Therefore, it will never happen.  Hell, we haven't been able to raise the Federal Fuel Tax since 1993 to fix our post-apocalyptic third world roads because our spineless so-called "leaders" are too chickenshit to make the case for doing so to the brain-dead American electorate.

[Morris Minor]

The compelling thing with EVs is the lack of moving parts. They'll always beat reciprocating engines on that front.

[AutobahnSHO]

The compelling thing with EVs is the lack of moving parts. They'll always beat reciprocating engines on that front.

They have plenty of moving parts- but small coolant pumps and other EV tech are way easier to replace than a big cast iron (or aluminum) motor with all the other bits that are required to make it run...

[giant_mtb]

The compelling thing with EVs is the lack of moving parts. They'll always beat reciprocating engines on that front.

I've had issues with wheel bearings, ball joints, shocks, and brakes more than anything else related to the ICE itself on a vehicle...things that EVs also still have to have (aka, regular maintenance items).

People are so jacked they don't need to change their oil once or twice a year like it's some miracle from God.

[AutobahnSHO]

You guys change it more than every couple years??....

[Morris Minor]

I've had issues with wheel bearings, ball joints, shocks, and brakes more than anything else related to the ICE itself on a vehicle...things that EVs also still have to have (aka, regular maintenance items).

People are so jacked they don't need to change their oil once or twice a year like it's some miracle from God.

How many moving parts are optimal? 
Also ICE engines stink, literally.

[giant_mtb]

How many moving parts are optimal?
Also ICE engines stink, literally.

Please, do tell me how suspension components and brakes are not "optimal."

[FoMoJo]

How many moving parts are optimal?
Also ICE engines stink, literally.

Oh?  Was that from your experience with the Honda and the G37?

[Morris Minor]

They stink. And you need nitrile gloves to handle them. It's like steam locomotives vs diesels. Maintenance & upkeep are like night & day.

[Morris Minor]

You could say the same thing about your typical BEV in a suburb.

I've driven over 1000 miles this month and I don't think I've used more than 35% of the pack's capacity on any given day.

Metcalfe going a bit into the weeds on PHEVs vs EVs. He hits on a lot of the points you've made.