2025 Ram Ramcharger

[Morris Minor]

I bet it doesn't have one. There's probably zero accessories on the V6, everything would be electric (cooling pumps, A/C, PS, etc) and it can use the generator or 90 kwh battery to charge the 12v system.

Exactly - radiator, pipes & coolant are about all that needs to be bolted on.

(IIRC we decided in another thread that, relative to other brands, Ram trucks enjoy most-favored status with coal-rolling LSEs. So one has to wonder how they'll cope with this.)

[GoCougs]

I always thought the Volt was a good idea; a few of the engineery-type people where I used to work had them & loved them. The Ramcharger addresses the range issue with those who actually use the truck for something trucks are best at, like hauling loads, but does it really need the Pentastar V6 & >600 miles? People need food & potty stops.

I wonder if a turbo four would have been a better fit with a lower weight penalty. Maybe that would be more expensive than the V6 - reliable & probably now being stamped out like cookies by now - fully amortized years ago.

The range is essentially a fake stat IMO, just like 600 hp - fairly narrow band of use cases. After 145 miles of EV range that means ~550 miles on a minivan V6 toting around 7,000+ lbs.

More than likely, as the vehicle is driven normally (i.e., not at high loads), the V6 will always be charging to some extent the battery, and then perhaps it'll charge when the vehicle is parked (?).

All told, as I see it, you'll still have to drive it to a fair extent like an EV - being mindful of range and load - to be useful and the extreme stats (600 hp, 690 mile range) will be in only extreme cases.

The V6 is parts bin - Ram was already putting that V6 its trucks.

[Laconian]

I would imagine that the truck would offer a choice of operating modes, and that for regulatory reasons the default choice would be the most eco-friendly one; i.e. drain the battery deeply before lighting up the ICE motor. It makes way more sense to do things this way when decent L2 charging is available at the home/shop/whatever.

145 miles is very generous, far more than most people ask of their vehicles over the course of an average day.

[veeman]

After five years of ownership of this pickup, what percentage would you guess of owners would exclusively use the ICE component of this vehicle because something broke with the EV component and the Stellantis dealership is giving the owner the runaround and can't seem to fix it or is claiming whatever is broke is no longer under warranty.   

I'm guessing 50%. 

[Laconian]

After five years of ownership of this pickup, what percentage would you guess of owners would exclusively use the ICE component of this vehicle because something broke with the EV component and the Stellantis dealership is giving the owner the runaround and can't seem to fix it or is claiming whatever is broke is no longer under warranty.   

I'm guessing 50%. 

The ICE's job in this implementation is purely to feed energy to the electric drivetrain. If the electric part is kaput, then I would guess that nothing would work at all?

[veeman]

The ICE's job in this implementation is purely to feed energy to the electric drivetrain. If the electric part is kaput, then I would guess that nothing would work at all?

It says in the article the V6 can recharge the battery or dump power to the drive motors.  So if the battery is kaput for whatever reason or some component of the charging mechanism, the motors should still work being fed by the ICE.

[GoCougs]

"They" call it a series hybrid, which generally means the ICE can power the drive motor(s) directly via the generator. I suspect however it won't run completely off the ICE if but for nothing else than weird driving behavior of having to pass power through the generator first.

[MrH]

It says in the article the V6 can recharge the battery or dump power to the drive motors.  So if the battery is kaput for whatever reason or some component of the charging mechanism, the motors should still work being fed by the ICE.

There is no mechanical connection between the gas engine and the drive train.

[veeman]

So what you guys are saying is that if the battery or charging mechanism of the battery of this pickup goes kaput for whatever reason, the pickup won't be able to use the ICE engine and the pickup will be non-functional? 

Great. 

Stellantis hasn't had any EV product out there yet in America so we have no idea how reliable their battery/charging mechanism will be.

The Ford Mustang Mach-E hasn't had good reliability with it's battery/charging mechanism when using fast public charging. Ford has had a lot of growing pains with EV. 

 

[giant_mtb]

So what you guys are saying is that if the battery or charging mechanism of the battery of this pickup goes kaput for whatever reason, the pickup won't be able to use the ICE engine and the pickup will be non-functional? 

Great. 

Stellantis hasn't had any EV product out there yet in America so we have no idea how reliable their battery/charging mechanism will be.

The Ford Mustang Mach-E hasn't had good reliability with it's battery/charging mechanism when using fast public charging. Ford has had a lot of growing pains with EV. 

They've had their eTorque systems out in Wranglers and Rams for a while now.  Different, as it isn't plug-in and the battery is much smaller (it's a "mild hybrid"), but they do have experience with the ICE -> generator -> battery -> motor system.

But yeah, knowing their reputation with electronics, I wouldn't get within a thousand feet of this thing with my own money.

[CaminoRacer]

I don't think it's any more concerning than their regular ICE powertrains. I've heard enough horror stories about Cummins RAMs, this can't be any worse

[MrH]

So what you guys are saying is that if the battery or charging mechanism of the battery of this pickup goes kaput for whatever reason, the pickup won't be able to use the ICE engine and the pickup will be non-functional? 

Great. 

Stellantis hasn't had any EV product out there yet in America so we have no idea how reliable their battery/charging mechanism will be.

The Ford Mustang Mach-E hasn't had good reliability with it's battery/charging mechanism when using fast public charging. Ford has had a lot of growing pains with EV. 

 

I mean, with any vehicle now, any major component of the drive train going out will cause it to not work. 

I don't think it's any more concerning than their regular ICE powertrains. I've heard enough horror stories about Cummins RAMs, this can't be any worse

exactly.

In some ways, a serial hybrid is less complicated than some other systems.  There isn't a transmission, for example.

[r0tor]

I've got a 13 year old basically trouble free Pentastar -shrug-

[Laconian]

I mean, with any vehicle now, any major component of the drive train going out will cause it to not work. 

exactly.

In some ways, a serial hybrid is less complicated than some other systems.  There isn't a transmission, for example.

What would you say if Jaguar made a serial hybrid, with Lucas playing a supporting role?

[GoCougs]

So what you guys are saying is that if the battery or charging mechanism of the battery of this pickup goes kaput for whatever reason, the pickup won't be able to use the ICE engine and the pickup will be non-functional? 

Great. 

Stellantis hasn't had any EV product out there yet in America so we have no idea how reliable their battery/charging mechanism will be.

The Ford Mustang Mach-E hasn't had good reliability with it's battery/charging mechanism when using fast public charging. Ford has had a lot of growing pains with EV. 
 

Per the diagram above the ICE can directly power the drive motors like a railroad locomotive but the power pass through is not instantaneous. At times the locomotive prime mover (the ICE) RPM is independent of locomotive speed. So, that, along with the throttle lag and being WAY down on power WRT a traditional pickup truck, will make for an odd driving experience when the battery is at or near depletion. I'll be interested to see how Ram handles it.

[MrH]

What would you say if Jaguar made a serial hybrid, with Lucas playing a supporting role?

Might be the quickest vehicle ever produced.  Any issue, and a blackhole to the underworld would open up and you could travel through space time.

Per the diagram above the ICE can directly power the drive motors like a railroad locomotive but the power pass through is not instantaneous. At times the locomotive prime mover (the ICE) RPM is independent of locomotive speed. So, that, along with the throttle lag and being WAY down on power WRT a traditional pickup truck, will make for an odd driving experience when the battery is at or near depletion. I'll be interested to see how Ram handles it.

I'm guessing for something like this, the ICE would kick on at 25% battery remaining.  Engine would generate the necessary power to stay in that area, something like that.  I highly, highly doubt they'd ever let power get so low that they would try to marry the throttle position 1:1 with the ICE output.  If there was little to no battery, then yes, you could get the situation you're describing.  But with 70 kWh?  They are going to have a really fat buffer in there so you can continue to get near or close to the full power.

If you're in tow mode, it would probably try to keep a 50% reserve or something.  If you're in EV mode, maybe it lets it go all the way down to 10%.  It'll have some sort of logic like that.

You would basically have a kanban style supply and demand scenario to drive the ICE logic based on desired reserves, calculated by the demand the car is seeing.  They'll never link the ICE and throttle pedal exactly.

[GoCougs]

I'm guessing for something like this, the ICE would kick on at 25% battery remaining.  Engine would generate the necessary power to stay in that area, something like that.  I highly, highly doubt they'd ever let power get so low that they would try to marry the throttle position 1:1 with the ICE output.  If there was little to no battery, then yes, you could get the situation you're describing.  But with 70 kWh?  They are going to have a really fat buffer in there so you can continue to get near or close to the full power.

If you're in tow mode, it would probably try to keep a 50% reserve or something.  If you're in EV mode, maybe it lets it go all the way down to 10%.  It'll have some sort of logic like that.

You would basically have a kanban style supply and demand scenario to drive the ICE logic based on desired reserves, calculated by the demand the car is seeing.  They'll never link the ICE and throttle pedal exactly.

That's not any more efficient then simply having the ICE V6 power the vehicle via conventional means (i.e., traditional drive train). This thing only makes sense as an EV if it is mostly powered via energy from charging from the grid (i.e., the V6 is rarely used).

[Laconian]

This thing only makes sense as an EV if it is mostly powered via energy from charging from the grid (i.e., the V6 is rarely used).

I'd wager that's how most of the trucks would be used...

[565]

The problem is that the V6 will be generating max power close to redline.

When the battery runs low is that V6 just going to be screaming away the whole time?   Hope the sound insulation is incredible.

[GoCougs]

I'd wager that's how most of the trucks would be used...

I suspect that as well, but more because you'll have to, as best case it'll be a PITA to drive with a nearly depleted battery, even if they let you do it at all.

[giant_mtb]

This thing seems to make less and less sense the more we talk about it.

[CaminoRacer]

Chevy figured it out on the 2nd Gen Volt. It's not that hard.

[Laconian]

The problem is that the V6 will be generating max power close to redline.

When the battery runs low is that V6 just going to be screaming away the whole time?   Hope the sound insulation is incredible.

The generator can only take 225hp so the Pentastar probably won't be running at max speed.

[AutobahnSHO]

I'd wager that's how most of the trucks would be used...

Exactly.

99% of pickup driving is unloaded driving to work or a grocery run. But the hybrids allow people to also account for the one off needs....

[Morris Minor]

Chevy figured it out on the 2nd Gen Volt. It's not that hard.

GM sold its rail electro-motive division, EMD, nearly 20 years ago. All that electric traction expertise...

AFAIK diesel-electric locomotives don't have batteries between the prime mover & the traction motors. I think there are a few fixed throttle positions, & control smarts juggle prime mover, generator, and desired output.

For max planet-saving efficiency the Pentastar would be need to be wailing at WOT quite a bit of the time...

[r0tor]

The generator can only take 225hp so the Pentastar probably won't be running at max speed.

The pentastar is pretty gutless engine down low.

[Morris Minor]

Our ancestors were tinkering around with this stuff 100 years ago.

[giant_mtb]

GM sold its rail electro-motive division, EMD, nearly 20 years ago. All that electric traction expertise...

AFAIK diesel-electric locomotives don't have batteries between the prime mover & the traction motors. I think there are a few fixed throttle positions, & control smarts juggle prime mover, generator, and desired output.

For max planet-saving efficiency the Pentastar would be need to be wailing at WOT quite a bit of the time...

Yeah, trains have multiple fixed throttle positions because they are dealing with fewer dynamic forces than a vehicle on the road...much less throttle input/adjustment is necessary. They also need known/fixed throttle positions as locos very often work in tandem, so keeping both on the "same page" of putting power down is super important.  If one loco goes full-tilt and starts spinning its wheels, it's useless, and the other has to take on the whole load.

My local railroad uses GE units (U30C's and C30-7's)...ancient, as far as machinery goes (not to mention many of the ore cars date back to WWII), but they keep chuggin' iron ore cars up and down the hill just fine. 

[MrH]

That's not any more efficient then simply having the ICE V6 power the vehicle via conventional means (i.e., traditional drive train). This thing only makes sense as an EV if it is mostly powered via energy from charging from the grid (i.e., the V6 is rarely used).

Yes, that's the idea of all PHEV vehicles?

[MrH]

The problem is that the V6 will be generating max power close to redline.

When the battery runs low is that V6 just going to be screaming away the whole time?   Hope the sound insulation is incredible.

The generator can only create 130 kW (174 hp).  It won't be running at max power.  Whole thing will be tuned for the most efficient way to make anywhere between 0-174 hp, depending on the needs.