If you HAD to buy a 2024 Minivan…

[Tave]

What's good gents?

Short/long I have too many kids and not enough seats. Going to light the cig, tie the blindfold, and seppuku myself all over a new minivan. Leaning towards the Sienna or Odyssey and more heavily towards the latter.

If you HAD to, which passive vasectomy-mobile would you choose? And why?

3rd-row SUVs/CUVs suggestions will be considered but unlikely as we want the room more than anything.

[Laconian]

Congratulations on your fecundity!

I haven't driven either but I think the high cost of fuel in Hawaii would really have me thinking about the Sienna Hybrid. It's absolute voodoo, the efficiency numbers that Toyota can get on that massive boat. The residuals are also excellent if you want to view it from an annual cost of ownership perspective.

I haven't driven the Odyssey but I suspect the Honda might have the edge in driving enjoyment. I find recent mass market Toyotas to be a bit Buick like especially in the steering feel department. Who will be the primary driver?

My friends with minivans love their cars and brag about their hauling feats. It's really a shame they've attracted the rep that they have. SUVs are objectively worse in most regards.

[MrH]

Welcome back.

I think I would pick the Sienna if given the choice.  My brother & sister-in-law just picked up an Odyssey this week to replace their aging Rav4.  They ended up with an Odyssey because there was a 6+ month wait for a Sienna.

Wild card choice: Kia Canival.  My brother test drove one and said he didn't like it as much as the Odyssey.  Said it felt cheap to him, but he's not exactly a car connoisseur.  Worth a look

[veeman]

Since you're in Hawaii my guess is you don't drive very long interstate distances :)

Consider the Kia EV9. 

[giant_mtb]

Anything but a Chryzler/Dodge minivan. Preferably one of the Japs.

[veeman]

It seems like using fueleconomy.gov the Sienna would save you around $1000/year in gas money.

So you might be better off financially with the Odyssey if the Sienna costs you 10 grand more to buy upfront for equivalent optioned models.

[MrH]

Since you're in Hawaii my guess is you don't drive very long interstate distances :)

Consider the Kia EV9. 

I forgot he's in Hawaii.  This is a good point.  An EV with home charging is hard to beat when you're land locked to an island that isn't all that big.

Then I just looked up electricity prices in Hawaii.    I guess if you have a massive solar setup.  It's $.43/kWh in Hawaii.  Almost 3x what it is in Ohio.  Gas might be cheaper honestly.

[CaminoRacer]

I forgot he's in Hawaii.  This is a good point.  An EV with home charging is hard to beat when you're land locked to an island that isn't all that big.

Then I just looked up electricity prices in Hawaii.    I guess if you have a massive solar setup.  It's $.43/kWh in Hawaii.  Almost 3x what it is in Ohio.  Gas might be cheaper honestly.

Looks like gas prices are 48% higher in Hawaii vs. Ohio.

Using C&D observed MPG, to go 100 miles in a Sienna it would cost $17.43
In an EV9, it would be $18.34

Hawaii could definitely use more cheap solar energy or something.

[veeman]

I think the Kia EV9 would be a better driver and perhaps allow you to keep one sperm yielding testicle :)

For daily driving purposes my Kia EV6 is awesome. Never have to stop for gas, much less maintenance, makes ICE feel prehistoric.  Instant speed without any NVH. 

If you don't need the extra luggage room of a minivan except once or twice a year, I found a rear hitch cargo carrier can easily carry 4 full size suitcases. I've used it a few times when using all 3 rows of our SUV for passengers. 

I don't know, real world, how roomy the 3rd row is in the Kia EV9 or whether it's claustrophobic. It might be worth checking out. 

[Tave]

I was torn on the fuel economy. Yeah all energy is pricey here but the drive times and speeds are nothing. I average 10-12mpg over estimate on the CR-V already.

Huge wait on the Sienna. Offensively large markups on the EV9.

Only one base model Carnival and the closest Kia dealer is mostly a sales floor. Service support best near us at Honda, Dodge, Nissan, and BMW (Toyota not horrible).

Thought long of the Pacifica dual electric/hybrid but the initial reliability surveys scared us.

I could continue rationalizing all day, but if I'm being completely honest, Mrs Tave loved the way the middle seats slide side-to-side.

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[CaminoRacer]

I lean Honda over Toyota so that's probably my top choice also

[MrH]

I was torn on the fuel economy. Yeah all energy is pricey here but the drive times and speeds are nothing. I average 10-12mpg over estimate on the CR-V already.

Huge wait on the Sienna. Offensively large markups on the EV9.

Only one base model Carnival and the closest Kia dealer is mostly a sales floor. Service support best near us at Honda, Dodge, Nissan, and BMW (Toyota not horrible).

Thought long of the Pacifica dual electric/hybrid but the initial reliability surveys scared us.

I could continue rationalizing all day, but if I'm being completely honest, Mrs Tave loved the way the middle seats slide side-to-side.

Wait, does that picture mean you purchased the Odyssey?  If so, congrats!

The sliding middle seats is the feature that sold my sister in law on it too.

[veeman]

I was torn on the fuel economy. Yeah all energy is pricey here but the drive times and speeds are nothing. I average 10-12mpg over estimate on the CR-V already.

Huge wait on the Sienna. Offensively large markups on the EV9.

Only one base model Carnival and the closest Kia dealer is mostly a sales floor. Service support best near us at Honda, Dodge, Nissan, and BMW (Toyota not horrible).

Thought long of the Pacifica dual electric/hybrid but the initial reliability surveys scared us.

I could continue rationalizing all day, but if I'm being completely honest, Mrs Tave loved the way the middle seats slide side-to-side.

You cannot view this attachment.

Nice color!  I haven't seen that before on the Odyssey.  Looks great. The black instead of chrome on the grille, side view mirrors, and wheels also looks good.

[Laconian]

Congrats!

Why the heck is the Sienna waitlist so long?

[Tave]

Thanks all!

Nice color!  I haven't seen that before on the Odyssey.  Looks great. The black instead of chrome on the grille, side view mirrors, and wheels also looks good.

Yeah it throws off a lot of blue light, sonic gray is the color.

It's the Sport trim line, which is new for this year and slots b/w the EX-L and Touring. Don't get much beyond the appearance package, but it doesn't look completely anemic!

[GoCougs]

Rikki Tikki is back

So did you buy it first then? I've read this thread like 5 times and I think that's what happened.

Minivans are literally 100x better than an SUV for family duties.

[Tave]

Congrats!

Why the heck is the Sienna waitlist so long?

No reason offered beyond post-Covid supply issues. Wait time was 6mos-1year while Honda had 2-3 new odysseys on the lot every month.

[Tave]

Rikki Tikki is back

So did you buy it first then? I've read this thread like 5 times and I think that's what happened.

Minivans are literally 100x better than an SUV for family duties.

Thanks! We were still shopping when I posted the thread but had an appointment at the Honda dealer that morning to get a quote on our trade-ins.

[AutobahnSHO]

Congrats! Good to see you around. :)

I would have leaned more towards the Sienna but Odyssey would be strong 2nd choice- and you can't buy what's not available.

I'm on my 6th minivan right now, even though kids are out of the house. It's a 2012 Odyssey. I load it up with big boxes of disc golf discs- and honestly it's a better work vehicle than a truck or truck & trailer would be. Soooo much cargo room! (if you take a couple seats out)

The 2 Odysseys I've owned are far and away the 'best handling'. I had an '04 Sienna also but the steering felt too boosted and honestly that era and current I like the appearance of the Odyssey way more.

[Laconian]

No reason offered beyond post-Covid supply issues. Wait time was 6mos-1year while Honda had 2-3 new odysseys on the lot every month.

Live by the JIT supply buffer, die by the JIT supply buffer, I suppose. Oh well.

[MrH]

Live by the JIT supply buffer, die by the JIT supply buffer, I suppose. Oh well.

Naw.  Toyota outperformed everyone from a supply standpoint during COVID.  Lean enables more flexible supply chains.

Demand is wild for a handful of Toyota models.  They never planned capacity to support the volumes they're doing.  Not worth the effort to retool to try and match demand.

[Submariner2]

Good to see you back.  How have you been?

A friend just got an odyssey and It's an impressive people hauler.  I think you'll enjoy it.

P.S. I really like the color.

[Morris Minor]

Naw.  Toyota outperformed everyone from a supply standpoint during COVID.  Lean enables more flexible supply chains.
Demand is wild for a handful of Toyota models.  They never planned capacity to support the volumes they're doing.  Not worth the effort to retool to try and match demand.

My son gave a $1,000 deposit to about six Toyota dealers in the Bay Area to get first refusal on a high-trim Sienna. They are total Unobtainium. He got a couple of calls on poverty-spec ones but that was it. He gave up and got the deposits returned.
I think there's a niche of millenials who started babymaking during lockdown who did the math that SUVs are volumetrically horribly inefficient for kid hauling, and that a hybrid minivan was the perfect tool. 

[Laconian]

Is the Sienna produced on the same line as more profitable, fullsize SUVs?

The fact that Toyota can't rise to the sustained demand is worthy of criticism. It's a calculated choice on their part to forego the sale.

[Raza]

As someone who knows nothing about minivans, my instinct is to just go with the Honda Odyssey, honestly just on the power of Honda's reputation.

In my time, I've only driven a few minivans, one being a Honda Odyssey (maybe 20 years ago now), and it was, at the time, clearly the highest quality of the ones I drove. Compared to a Caravan of the same age, it was rock solid, where the Caravan was immediately squeaks and rattles.

[Tave]

Honda didn't include a break-in period in the owner's manual, but they had a general tech bulletin posted to their website so I went by that, 1000K/600m

Hit it the other day and I wanted to test it. Ended up running into some construction, but I had a few clear stretches.

Impressions:

Engine sounds nice, almost throaty compared to all the I4s out there today.

The sport throttle mapping and paddle shifters are as good as you could expect from a minivan, holds its gear well, decent snap on the downshifts, upshifts lag a bit. 

NVH, ride, and ergos all traditional Honda, like driving an Accord. If anything, maybe some bias towards the rear suspension to let some of that size and roll come through, but only a little; it's set up really well from factory.

Averaged 23-24 mpg mixed on the first 600m (w massive idling @ dealer). Hovering around 25-26 since I reset it and wrung it out (~140miles). Expect it to creep up after more normal driving.

Loving the size. Without trying I've hauled more cubic feet of crap than I would 6 mos in the Jeep. Got a 4-ton utility a shelf setup at Costco last week and it was a piece of cake to throw in the back.



Overall happy w the purchase. Hurt to let the Miata go but I wasn't using it at all, honestly just a struggle to keep the battery charged. Mrs Tave supported me keeping it, ultimately made too much sense to let it go. Weird thinking it could be the last manual car I own.

[Raza]

Honda didn't include a break-in period in the owner's manual, but they had a general tech bulletin posted to their website so I went by that, 1000K/600m

Hit it the other day and I wanted to test it. Ended up running into some construction, but I had a few clear stretches.

Impressions:

Engine sounds nice, almost throaty compared to all the I4s out there today.

The sport throttle mapping and paddle shifters are as good as you could expect from a minivan, holds its gear well, decent snap on the downshifts, upshifts lag a bit. 

NVH, ride, and ergos all traditional Honda, like driving an Accord. If anything, maybe some bias towards the rear suspension to let some of that size and roll come through, but only a little; it's set up really well from factory.

Averaged 23-24 mpg mixed on the first 600m (w massive idling @ dealer). Hovering around 25-26 since I reset it and wrung it out (~140miles). Expect it to creep up after more normal driving.

Loving the size. Without trying I've hauled more cubic feet of crap than I would 6 mos in the Jeep. Got a 4-ton utility a shelf setup at Costco last week and it was a piece of cake to throw in the back.



Overall happy w the purchase. Hurt to let the Miata go but I wasn't using it at all, honestly just a struggle to keep the battery charged. Mrs Tave supported me keeping it, ultimately made too much sense to let it go. Weird thinking it could be the last manual car I own.

My buddy's in the process of selling his Miata right now to help pay for home repairs; as he said, they've made one or two more, he'll easily be able to get another one later on. Maybe circumstances will change in the future and you'll have more time to take on a pleasure car and you'll get another Miata.

I'm glad you're liking the Odyssey though! Minivans have to be practical first and foremost, if they're not horrible to drive, that's a bit plus on top of it.

[CaminoRacer]

I miss my Miata, but I wish they made a slightly larger one to fit my 6'2 self a bit better. Instead of buying another Miata later on, I'll probably end up with a Cayman or something.

[AutobahnSHO]

...
Loving the size. Without trying I've hauled more cubic feet of crap than I would 6 mos in the Jeep. Got a 4-ton utility a shelf setup at Costco last week and it was a piece of cake to throw in the back.

Be careful it's easy to just see stuff and buy it (since you can get it home).

FYI my 2012 Odyssey pulled Miata from VA to SC a few years back. They can pull quite a bit no issues. (Avoid tons of shifts to be nice to the transmission.)

[Morris Minor]

You can get transmission coolers for the Pilot/Odyssey.