C/D comparo: Escalade, GL450, Navigator, Q7, and QX56

[Raza]

I drive an Ibiza, 1996 model.  It's actually off the road at the moment, for a year or so, due to me moving out to student halls and not being able to afford the insurance (expensive in the UK)     It's nippy enough (though only a 1.4 which wouldn't impress you guys!)  and it's only done 25,000 miles, which is low for a 10 year old car - it was given to me by my grandparents.  I will get some pictures if you like, when I can get it out of the garage - the garage door is broken at the moment so its stuck in there

It's the Lupo 1.4, right?  I do like the Leon FR that Seat offers now. 

Yeah, we'd love some pictures.

[so cal cookie]

+

[cawimmer430]

 

[TBR]

Maybe partially incorrect, but most people who think they need more room and buy these SUVs don't need the room they already have. 

And what basis do you have for this claim? Most GL buyers will want the 3rd row.

[Raza]

And what basis do you have for this claim? Most GL buyers will want the 3rd row.

Just my experience with luxury SUV buyers.  I know hundreds.

[Atomic]

Completely incorrect. The GL and ML look so similar that most people won't be able to tell the difference unless they are parked side by side. The reason for the GL is because some ML buyers wanted more room.

and status!

[GoCougs]

The Navigator's grill and guages top even the Aztek's design disaster by a good margin. What an abomination. How could Ford lose sight of the market so horribly? What a train wreck.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I love those gauges!















on a '79 F-150

[TBR]

and status!

Not true, I can barely tell the difference between the two and I am far more knowledgeable than the typical luxury car buyer.

[Raza]

Not true, I can barely tell the difference between the two and I am far more knowledgeable than the typical luxury car buyer.

But it is more expensive.  That's a number you toss around at the local country club. 

[saxonyron]

Status counts a lot.? Functionality takes a back seat...a 3rd row back seat!? ?? My friend with the ML320 wants to trade up to the GL, now that it's out.? He has 2 little kids and really has never had a problem with room or towing (he tows nothing). But now he wants the GL.? I took him to the Audi dealer the other day and a loaded Q7 was right there, left unlocked after hours.? ? We had every door open, flipping seats, playing with the MMI, etc. for about a half hour. We were both blown away.? He loves the styling way more than the new ML or GL.  ?Now he's starting to talk about the Q7. I'm leading him away from being the overly status-conscious Benz buyer to being the intelligent and savvy Audi buyer! (That dig was for you Christian!? )? He better not get one before I do, dammit!

[Colonel Cadillac]

If people want status, they will buy a Range Rover without a moment's hesitation.

[SVT_Power]

If people want status, they will buy a Range Rover without a moment's hesitation.

I personally dont think so. Although whether it is better than these cars is another question

[Raza]

If people want status, they will buy a Range Rover without a moment's hesitation.

Barely anything says status like a Mercedes. 

[850CSi]

And what basis do you have for this claim? Most GL buyers will want the 3rd row.

That's what Minivans are for.

[ifcar]

Minivans have that soccer mom factor, so it makes more sense to pay twice as much for an inferior family car with a boxier shape and a premium badge.

[saxonyron]

That's what Minivans are for.

Some people who need 3rd row seats (like me) also need to tow trailers.  Minivans just don't cut it. People who need an SUV (like me) and have big money (not like me) will buy the Benz for the status.  And, no offense iffy :P , but minivans do have a certain amount of stigma attached to them.  Oxymoron for the day:  Premium Minivan.

[Raza]

Some people who need 3rd row seats (like me) also need to tow trailers.  Minivans just don't cut it. People who need an SUV (like me) and have big money (not like me) will buy the Benz for the status.  And, no offense iffy :P , but minivans do have a certain amount of stigma attached to them.  Oxymoron for the day:  Premium Minivan.

[saxonyron]

That's no minivan - it's a crossdresser vehicle! :P

[ifcar]

It's also not selling all that well.

[Raza]

It's also not selling all that well.

The R class?  I think most of us predicted that.  I've seen a few back home, but not that many, considering how long it's been on the market.

[Colonel Cadillac]

I'm pretty sure a Range Rover impresses more people than a GL.

[850CSi]

Some people who need 3rd row seats (like me) also need to tow trailers.? Minivans just don't cut it. People who need an SUV (like me) and have big money (not like me) will buy the Benz for the status.? And, no offense iffy :P , but minivans do have a certain amount of stigma attached to them.? Oxymoron for the day:? Premium Minivan.

I know. And I can perfectly understand you having the giant brute that you have because you have kids and you need to tow (key word: "need"). But here's the other thing... I haven't done a survey, but I'd bet that your situation applies to 5% or less of the people that buy huge SUVs.

[The Bartender]

Range Rover may say status, but even the wealthy read JD Power surveys and Consumer Reports once in a while.  Ford ownership seems to have helped Rover's quality issues, but apparently only to pull them up from "Absolutely deplorable" to "Pretty bad".

One of the debate/arguments I managed to have with some of the editors at the C & D 5oth party was about the "Gotta Have it factor"  Csaba actually explained it, and I agree with it TO SOME EXTENT.  But to only give the Caddillac a 13 out of 25 (IIRC) shows that the testers are out of touch with the mainstream opinion of these vehicles  I don't necessarily disagree with the Mercedes getting high ranks, but EVERYONE knows what an Escalade is.  A higher GHI score probably wouldn't have changed the reults, however.

As for the Navigator, I read it a description of the grille that was something like "A chromed storm drain grate", which is pretty acurate, and about as attractive.

[ifcar]

I'm under the impression that the GHI is what the editors themselves think, and is not supposed to mimic mainstream opinion.

[The Bartender]

I'm under the impression that the GHI is what the editors themselves think, and is not supposed to mimic mainstream opinion.

True.? The way Csaba stated, if the keys to the various vehicles were all hanging on a board in front of you, and all the vehicles were gassed and ready to go outside in the driveway, in what order would you pick them to take for a? drive, with no other factors (like cost, fuel mileage, reliability, etc.) involved?

That said, there are obvious factors that are hard to consider that still affect the choices, such as the type of trip intended, the editors personal stated (and unstated) biases and even the weather conditions.? The GHI factor also can underscore the connection the editors have with the general public, or lack thereof, as I think is the case in this review.? Given what Csaba said,? my personal order GHI order would be

Mercedes
Cadillac
Q7
QX56? ? ? ? ? ?
Navigator

and the Benz only just BARELY edges the Cadillac on that list for me.

Since we're talking about it, let's do our own GHI list.? Everyone from here out, rank them in your personal Gotta Have it order and let's see what we come up with.? I'll assign a decreasing point value in 5 point steps to each vehicle on your own personal list, starting with 25, and after a few days, let's see what the result is (if at least 10 or so people answer)? Keep in mind that this is NOT NECESSARILY the order you would BUY them if you had the ability, but the order you would choose to DRIVE them if you had all five sitting in front of you.

[ifcar]

1. Q7. Most fun, don't have to worry about the interior space to take it for a drive.
2. GL. Most refined, very comfortable from the driver's seat.
3. QX. Lots of power and decent handling, but doesn't feel luxurious.
4. Escalade. What reason would I have for choosing to drive it? You drive something like the Escalade to be seen in while having decent practicality, nothing I need.
5. Navigator. Same, but horridly ugly.

This could change depending on the circumstances of the drive. Am I carrying passengers? Am I hauling or towing? Am I going on a road trip o to the grocery store? Etc.

[The Bartender]

None of the above.  Think of yourself as a road test editor for CarSPIN and you're just going to go for a drive.  No real purpose, just to go, and maybe a little "show off" factor, since that sort of applies to the GHI factor.

[ifcar]

That's what I went with. I think that I'd probably end up using the GTI as how much I like the cars in general if I actually worked for C/D though, which the little columns of numbers can't really say.

[The Bartender]

Okay, using the point system

Mercedes   45
Audi           40
Cadillac      30
Infiniti        25
Lincoln       10