BMW M7

[Raghavan]

I thought BMW vowed never to make another automatic M car?

well, they already have a lot of automatic m cars.

By automatic you mean SMG?

SMG = auto.

Wrong.

right.

Wrong.  What's SMG stand for...Sequential Manual something or other?

it has an auto only mode, and it's missing 1 pedal.

wrong again.  Its a manual transmission with a hydraulically operated clutch.

it has an auto mode, doesn't it?

Ferrari's F1 transmission also has auto mode, and its still a manual.

i think it's an auto.

What you think really doesnt matter...the fact is that its a manual (exactly like BMWs other 6 speed manuals), just the cluth is hydralically operated.

it's MY opinion. what you think about it doesn't matter, bub.

Your opinion doesnt matter in the context of fact.

i'm entitled to it.

[BMWDave]

I thought BMW vowed never to make another automatic M car?

well, they already have a lot of automatic m cars.

By automatic you mean SMG?

SMG = auto.

Wrong.

right.

Wrong.  What's SMG stand for...Sequential Manual something or other?

it has an auto only mode, and it's missing 1 pedal.

wrong again.  Its a manual transmission with a hydraulically operated clutch.

it has an auto mode, doesn't it?

Ferrari's F1 transmission also has auto mode, and its still a manual.

i think it's an auto.

What you think really doesnt matter...the fact is that its a manual (exactly like BMWs other 6 speed manuals), just the cluth is hydralically operated.

it's MY opinion. what you think about it doesn't matter, bub.

Your opinion doesnt matter in the context of fact.

i'm entitled to it.

of course.

[Raghavan]

I thought BMW vowed never to make another automatic M car?

well, they already have a lot of automatic m cars.

By automatic you mean SMG?

SMG = auto.

Wrong.

right.

Wrong.  What's SMG stand for...Sequential Manual something or other?

it has an auto only mode, and it's missing 1 pedal.

wrong again.  Its a manual transmission with a hydraulically operated clutch.

it has an auto mode, doesn't it?

Ferrari's F1 transmission also has auto mode, and its still a manual.

i think it's an auto.

What you think really doesnt matter...the fact is that its a manual (exactly like BMWs other 6 speed manuals), just the cluth is hydralically operated.

it's MY opinion. what you think about it doesn't matter, bub.

Your opinion doesnt matter in the context of fact.

i'm entitled to it.

of course.

glad we could get by that without an argument.  

[R33 GT-R]

I don't view SMG as being manual either even though it sort of is.  The simple fact that I can't depress the clutch and fire it into gear just doesn't sit well with me.  I've driven a few and they are more fun than a full auto but still something is missing to me.  

[Raghavan]

I don't view SMG as being manual either even though it sort of is.  The simple fact that I can't depress the clutch and fire it into gear just doesn't sit well with me.  I've driven a few and they are more fun than a full auto but still something is missing to me.

the clutch?

[R33 GT-R]

I don't view SMG as being manual either even though it sort of is.  The simple fact that I can't depress the clutch and fire it into gear just doesn't sit well with me.  I've driven a few and they are more fun than a full auto but still something is missing to me.

the clutch?

Boo Ya!

[BMWDave]

I don't view SMG as being manual either even though it sort of is.? The simple fact that I can't depress the clutch and fire it into gear just doesn't sit well with me.? I've driven a few and they are more fun than a full auto but still something is missing to me.

the clutch?

Boo Ya!

You are correct, although the actual transmission is a manual one, and it does offer you a lot more flexibility than any automatic transmission.

[mazda6er]

I don't view SMG as being manual either even though it sort of is.? The simple fact that I can't depress the clutch and fire it into gear just doesn't sit well with me.? I've driven a few and they are more fun than a full auto but still something is missing to me.

the clutch?

Boo Ya!

You are correct, although the actual transmission is a manual one, and it does offer you a lot more flexibility than any automatic transmission.

Pretty much a clutchless manual, although more of a manual than the "autostick" option in my 6.

[BMWDave]

I don't view SMG as being manual either even though it sort of is.? The simple fact that I can't depress the clutch and fire it into gear just doesn't sit well with me.? I've driven a few and they are more fun than a full auto but still something is missing to me.

the clutch?

Boo Ya!

You are correct, although the actual transmission is a manual one, and it does offer you a lot more flexibility than any automatic transmission.

Pretty much a clutchless manual, although more of a manual than the "autostick" option in my 6.

Thats what I'm saying.   :)  

[Raghavan]

I don't view SMG as being manual either even though it sort of is.  The simple fact that I can't depress the clutch and fire it into gear just doesn't sit well with me.  I've driven a few and they are more fun than a full auto but still something is missing to me.

the clutch?

Boo Ya!

You are correct, although the actual transmission is a manual one, and it does offer you a lot more flexibility than any automatic transmission.

Pretty much a clutchless manual, although more of a manual than the "autostick" option in my 6.

Thats what I'm saying.   :)

so does this 'box hold the gear until you switch it, or will it switch on it's own?

[BMWDave]

I don't view SMG as being manual either even though it sort of is.? The simple fact that I can't depress the clutch and fire it into gear just doesn't sit well with me.? I've driven a few and they are more fun than a full auto but still something is missing to me.

the clutch?

Boo Ya!

You are correct, although the actual transmission is a manual one, and it does offer you a lot more flexibility than any automatic transmission.

Pretty much a clutchless manual, although more of a manual than the "autostick" option in my 6.

Thats what I'm saying.   :)

so does this 'box hold the gear until you switch it, or will it switch on it's own?

the auto mode shifts for you, albeit a bit jerkily.

[Raghavan]

I don't view SMG as being manual either even though it sort of is.  The simple fact that I can't depress the clutch and fire it into gear just doesn't sit well with me.  I've driven a few and they are more fun than a full auto but still something is missing to me.

the clutch?

Boo Ya!

You are correct, although the actual transmission is a manual one, and it does offer you a lot more flexibility than any automatic transmission.

Pretty much a clutchless manual, although more of a manual than the "autostick" option in my 6.

Thats what I'm saying.   :)

so does this 'box hold the gear until you switch it, or will it switch on it's own?

the auto mode shifts for you, albeit a bit jerkily.

i mean on the manual mode.

[BMWDave]

I don't view SMG as being manual either even though it sort of is.? The simple fact that I can't depress the clutch and fire it into gear just doesn't sit well with me.? I've driven a few and they are more fun than a full auto but still something is missing to me.

the clutch?

Boo Ya!

You are correct, although the actual transmission is a manual one, and it does offer you a lot more flexibility than any automatic transmission.

Pretty much a clutchless manual, although more of a manual than the "autostick" option in my 6.

Thats what I'm saying.   :)

so does this 'box hold the gear until you switch it, or will it switch on it's own?

the auto mode shifts for you, albeit a bit jerkily.

i mean on the manual mode.

you shift using paddles.

[Raza]

I don't view SMG as being manual either even though it sort of is.  The simple fact that I can't depress the clutch and fire it into gear just doesn't sit well with me.  I've driven a few and they are more fun than a full auto but still something is missing to me.

the clutch?

Boo Ya!

You are correct, although the actual transmission is a manual one, and it does offer you a lot more flexibility than any automatic transmission.

Pretty much a clutchless manual, although more of a manual than the "autostick" option in my 6.

Thats what I'm saying.   :)

so does this 'box hold the gear until you switch it, or will it switch on it's own?

SMGs won't, some Tiptronics won't either.  My E320's does not shift at redline, nor at the limiter, but my Passat's does.

[TBR]

Mechanically SMG might be a manual with electronic fingers, but as far as I am concerned, and for all practical purposes, it is nothing more than a really fast shifting tiptronic automatic.  

[BMWDave]

Mechanically SMG might be a manual with electronic fingers, but as far as I am concerned, and for all practical purposes, it is nothing more than a really fast shifting tiptronic automatic.

Its not an automatic in the sense that there is no torque converter, and the mechanicals of the transmission are exactly the same as BMW's 6 speed, just the clutch is hydraulically operated.

[TBR]

Mechanically SMG might be a manual with electronic fingers, but as far as I am concerned, and for all practical purposes, it is nothing more than a really fast shifting tiptronic automatic.

Its not an automatic in the sense that there is no torque converter, and the mechanicals of the transmission are exactly the same as BMW's 6 speed, just the clutch is hydraulically operated.

Did you even take the time to read and comprehend my post?  

[BMWDave]

Mechanically SMG might be a manual with electronic fingers, but as far as I am concerned, and for all practical purposes, it is nothing more than a really fast shifting tiptronic automatic.

Its not an automatic in the sense that there is no torque converter, and the mechanicals of the transmission are exactly the same as BMW's 6 speed, just the clutch is hydraulically operated.

Did you even take the time to read and comprehend my post?

Yes I did, and my point is that with SMG you can do stuff that you cant do with a shiftronic, since the SMG is basically a manual, and so for all practical purposes, IMO, it wouldnt be the same as a Shiftronic.

No need to get all huffy <_<  

[TBR]

Mechanically SMG might be a manual with electronic fingers, but as far as I am concerned, and for all practical purposes, it is nothing more than a really fast shifting tiptronic automatic.

Its not an automatic in the sense that there is no torque converter, and the mechanicals of the transmission are exactly the same as BMW's 6 speed, just the clutch is hydraulically operated.

Did you even take the time to read and comprehend my post?

Yes I did, and my point is that with SMG you can do stuff that you cant do with a shiftronic, since the SMG is basically a manual, and so for all practical purposes, IMO, it wouldnt be the same as a Shiftronic.

No need to get all huffy <_<

I said that I realized it isn't an automatic, but it works just like a manumatic except it shifts faster. It shifts with buttons and doesn't require pressing in a clutch, how exactly isn't it a manumatic for all practical purposes?

[BMWDave]

Mechanically SMG might be a manual with electronic fingers, but as far as I am concerned, and for all practical purposes, it is nothing more than a really fast shifting tiptronic automatic.

Its not an automatic in the sense that there is no torque converter, and the mechanicals of the transmission are exactly the same as BMW's 6 speed, just the clutch is hydraulically operated.

Did you even take the time to read and comprehend my post?

Yes I did, and my point is that with SMG you can do stuff that you cant do with a shiftronic, since the SMG is basically a manual, and so for all practical purposes, IMO, it wouldnt be the same as a Shiftronic.

No need to get all huffy <_<

I said that I realized it isn't an automatic, but it works just like a manumatic except it shifts faster. It shifts with buttons and doesn't require pressing in a clutch, how exactly isn't it a manumatic for all practical purposes?

I dont believe its a shiftronic, even for practical purposes, because SMG is a manual, just without a regular clutch.  If you overrevved a shiftronic, and didnt shift, then it would shift for you so you didnt overrev.  IN SMG, in manual, its exactly like a manual just without the clutch, and even if you overrev, it wont shift for you in manual mode.

[TBR]

Mechanically SMG might be a manual with electronic fingers, but as far as I am concerned, and for all practical purposes, it is nothing more than a really fast shifting tiptronic automatic.

Its not an automatic in the sense that there is no torque converter, and the mechanicals of the transmission are exactly the same as BMW's 6 speed, just the clutch is hydraulically operated.

Did you even take the time to read and comprehend my post?

Yes I did, and my point is that with SMG you can do stuff that you cant do with a shiftronic, since the SMG is basically a manual, and so for all practical purposes, IMO, it wouldnt be the same as a Shiftronic.

No need to get all huffy <_<

I said that I realized it isn't an automatic, but it works just like a manumatic except it shifts faster. It shifts with buttons and doesn't require pressing in a clutch, how exactly isn't it a manumatic for all practical purposes?

I dont believe its a shiftronic, even for practical purposes, because SMG is a manual, just without a regular clutch.  If you overrevved a shiftronic, and didnt shift, then it would shift for you so you didnt overrev.  IN SMG, in manual, its exactly like a manual just without the clutch, and even if you overrev, it wont shift for you in manual mode.

You are wrong, there are various automatics that absolutely won't shift at redline if you are in the manumatic mode. SMG type tranismissions might shift faster than manumatics, but as far as I am concerned the level of isolation is the same for both of them.  

[BMWDave]

Mechanically SMG might be a manual with electronic fingers, but as far as I am concerned, and for all practical purposes, it is nothing more than a really fast shifting tiptronic automatic.

Its not an automatic in the sense that there is no torque converter, and the mechanicals of the transmission are exactly the same as BMW's 6 speed, just the clutch is hydraulically operated.

Did you even take the time to read and comprehend my post?

Yes I did, and my point is that with SMG you can do stuff that you cant do with a shiftronic, since the SMG is basically a manual, and so for all practical purposes, IMO, it wouldnt be the same as a Shiftronic.

No need to get all huffy <_<

I said that I realized it isn't an automatic, but it works just like a manumatic except it shifts faster. It shifts with buttons and doesn't require pressing in a clutch, how exactly isn't it a manumatic for all practical purposes?

I dont believe its a shiftronic, even for practical purposes, because SMG is a manual, just without a regular clutch.  If you overrevved a shiftronic, and didnt shift, then it would shift for you so you didnt overrev.  IN SMG, in manual, its exactly like a manual just without the clutch, and even if you overrev, it wont shift for you in manual mode.

You are wrong, there are various automatics that absolutely won't shift at redline if you are in the manumatic mode. SMG type tranismissions might shift faster than manumatics, but as far as I am concerned the level of isolation is the same for both of them.

Maybe some, but not all manumatics shift at redline.  Most, in fact, will not. Take your run of the mill shiftronic and it wont shift.  Only the sportier automatics do that.  And you said, it was "nothing more than a really fast shifting tiptronic."  And as I pointed out, not all shiftronics shift like that, so its not like any shiftronic.

[TBR]

Mechanically SMG might be a manual with electronic fingers, but as far as I am concerned, and for all practical purposes, it is nothing more than a really fast shifting tiptronic automatic.

Its not an automatic in the sense that there is no torque converter, and the mechanicals of the transmission are exactly the same as BMW's 6 speed, just the clutch is hydraulically operated.

Did you even take the time to read and comprehend my post?

Yes I did, and my point is that with SMG you can do stuff that you cant do with a shiftronic, since the SMG is basically a manual, and so for all practical purposes, IMO, it wouldnt be the same as a Shiftronic.

No need to get all huffy <_<

I said that I realized it isn't an automatic, but it works just like a manumatic except it shifts faster. It shifts with buttons and doesn't require pressing in a clutch, how exactly isn't it a manumatic for all practical purposes?

I dont believe its a shiftronic, even for practical purposes, because SMG is a manual, just without a regular clutch.  If you overrevved a shiftronic, and didnt shift, then it would shift for you so you didnt overrev.  IN SMG, in manual, its exactly like a manual just without the clutch, and even if you overrev, it wont shift for you in manual mode.

You are wrong, there are various automatics that absolutely won't shift at redline if you are in the manumatic mode. SMG type tranismissions might shift faster than manumatics, but as far as I am concerned the level of isolation is the same for both of them.

Maybe some, but not all manumatics shift at redline.  Most, in fact, will not. Take your run of the mill shiftronic and it wont shift.  Only the sportier automatics do that.  And you said, it was "nothing more than a really fast shifting tiptronic."  And as I pointed out, not all shiftronics shift like that, so its not like any shiftronic.

You're not making any sense. I know that from a mechanical aspect SMG is closer to a manual than an automatic, but in real life it behaves much like a good tiptronic type automatic, meaning it will hold the gear you put it in no matter what when in the manual mode.  

[BMWDave]

Mechanically SMG might be a manual with electronic fingers, but as far as I am concerned, and for all practical purposes, it is nothing more than a really fast shifting tiptronic automatic.

Its not an automatic in the sense that there is no torque converter, and the mechanicals of the transmission are exactly the same as BMW's 6 speed, just the clutch is hydraulically operated.

Did you even take the time to read and comprehend my post?

Yes I did, and my point is that with SMG you can do stuff that you cant do with a shiftronic, since the SMG is basically a manual, and so for all practical purposes, IMO, it wouldnt be the same as a Shiftronic.

No need to get all huffy <_<

I said that I realized it isn't an automatic, but it works just like a manumatic except it shifts faster. It shifts with buttons and doesn't require pressing in a clutch, how exactly isn't it a manumatic for all practical purposes?

I dont believe its a shiftronic, even for practical purposes, because SMG is a manual, just without a regular clutch.  If you overrevved a shiftronic, and didnt shift, then it would shift for you so you didnt overrev.  IN SMG, in manual, its exactly like a manual just without the clutch, and even if you overrev, it wont shift for you in manual mode.

You are wrong, there are various automatics that absolutely won't shift at redline if you are in the manumatic mode. SMG type tranismissions might shift faster than manumatics, but as far as I am concerned the level of isolation is the same for both of them.

Maybe some, but not all manumatics shift at redline.  Most, in fact, will not. Take your run of the mill shiftronic and it wont shift.  Only the sportier automatics do that.  And you said, it was "nothing more than a really fast shifting tiptronic."  And as I pointed out, not all shiftronics shift like that, so its not like any shiftronic.

You're not making any sense. I know that from a mechanical aspect SMG is closer to a manual than an automatic, but in real life it behaves much like a good tiptronic type automatic, meaning it will hold the gear you put it in no matter what when in the manual mode.

What I'm saying is that it cant be considered like a typical manumatic because not all manumatics hold the gear at redline (although some do).

[TBR]

Mechanically SMG might be a manual with electronic fingers, but as far as I am concerned, and for all practical purposes, it is nothing more than a really fast shifting tiptronic automatic.

Its not an automatic in the sense that there is no torque converter, and the mechanicals of the transmission are exactly the same as BMW's 6 speed, just the clutch is hydraulically operated.

Did you even take the time to read and comprehend my post?

Yes I did, and my point is that with SMG you can do stuff that you cant do with a shiftronic, since the SMG is basically a manual, and so for all practical purposes, IMO, it wouldnt be the same as a Shiftronic.

No need to get all huffy <_<

I said that I realized it isn't an automatic, but it works just like a manumatic except it shifts faster. It shifts with buttons and doesn't require pressing in a clutch, how exactly isn't it a manumatic for all practical purposes?

I dont believe its a shiftronic, even for practical purposes, because SMG is a manual, just without a regular clutch.  If you overrevved a shiftronic, and didnt shift, then it would shift for you so you didnt overrev.  IN SMG, in manual, its exactly like a manual just without the clutch, and even if you overrev, it wont shift for you in manual mode.

You are wrong, there are various automatics that absolutely won't shift at redline if you are in the manumatic mode. SMG type tranismissions might shift faster than manumatics, but as far as I am concerned the level of isolation is the same for both of them.

Maybe some, but not all manumatics shift at redline.  Most, in fact, will not. Take your run of the mill shiftronic and it wont shift.  Only the sportier automatics do that.  And you said, it was "nothing more than a really fast shifting tiptronic."  And as I pointed out, not all shiftronics shift like that, so its not like any shiftronic.

You're not making any sense. I know that from a mechanical aspect SMG is closer to a manual than an automatic, but in real life it behaves much like a good tiptronic type automatic, meaning it will hold the gear you put it in no matter what when in the manual mode.

What I'm saying is that it cant be considered like a typical manumatic because not all manumatics hold the gear at redline (although some do).

I never said it was a typical manumatic, in fact, it isn't even a good manumatic because it is completely different in design, all I said is that I don't think it involves the driver in the driving process any more than a good manumatic.  

[BMWDave]

Mechanically SMG might be a manual with electronic fingers, but as far as I am concerned, and for all practical purposes, it is nothing more than a really fast shifting tiptronic automatic.

Its not an automatic in the sense that there is no torque converter, and the mechanicals of the transmission are exactly the same as BMW's 6 speed, just the clutch is hydraulically operated.

Did you even take the time to read and comprehend my post?

Yes I did, and my point is that with SMG you can do stuff that you cant do with a shiftronic, since the SMG is basically a manual, and so for all practical purposes, IMO, it wouldnt be the same as a Shiftronic.

No need to get all huffy <_<

I said that I realized it isn't an automatic, but it works just like a manumatic except it shifts faster. It shifts with buttons and doesn't require pressing in a clutch, how exactly isn't it a manumatic for all practical purposes?

I dont believe its a shiftronic, even for practical purposes, because SMG is a manual, just without a regular clutch.  If you overrevved a shiftronic, and didnt shift, then it would shift for you so you didnt overrev.  IN SMG, in manual, its exactly like a manual just without the clutch, and even if you overrev, it wont shift for you in manual mode.

You are wrong, there are various automatics that absolutely won't shift at redline if you are in the manumatic mode. SMG type tranismissions might shift faster than manumatics, but as far as I am concerned the level of isolation is the same for both of them.

Maybe some, but not all manumatics shift at redline.  Most, in fact, will not. Take your run of the mill shiftronic and it wont shift.  Only the sportier automatics do that.  And you said, it was "nothing more than a really fast shifting tiptronic."  And as I pointed out, not all shiftronics shift like that, so its not like any shiftronic.

You're not making any sense. I know that from a mechanical aspect SMG is closer to a manual than an automatic, but in real life it behaves much like a good tiptronic type automatic, meaning it will hold the gear you put it in no matter what when in the manual mode.

What I'm saying is that it cant be considered like a typical manumatic because not all manumatics hold the gear at redline (although some do).

I never said it was a typical manumatic, in fact, it isn't even a good manumatic because it is completely different in design, all I said is that I don't think it involves the driver in the driving process any more than a good manumatic.

But you said yourself it is sportier and shifts occur quicker, so then by that logic, wouldnt it involve the driver more just by doing that?

[TBR]

Mechanically SMG might be a manual with electronic fingers, but as far as I am concerned, and for all practical purposes, it is nothing more than a really fast shifting tiptronic automatic.

Its not an automatic in the sense that there is no torque converter, and the mechanicals of the transmission are exactly the same as BMW's 6 speed, just the clutch is hydraulically operated.

Did you even take the time to read and comprehend my post?

Yes I did, and my point is that with SMG you can do stuff that you cant do with a shiftronic, since the SMG is basically a manual, and so for all practical purposes, IMO, it wouldnt be the same as a Shiftronic.

No need to get all huffy <_<

I said that I realized it isn't an automatic, but it works just like a manumatic except it shifts faster. It shifts with buttons and doesn't require pressing in a clutch, how exactly isn't it a manumatic for all practical purposes?

I dont believe its a shiftronic, even for practical purposes, because SMG is a manual, just without a regular clutch.  If you overrevved a shiftronic, and didnt shift, then it would shift for you so you didnt overrev.  IN SMG, in manual, its exactly like a manual just without the clutch, and even if you overrev, it wont shift for you in manual mode.

You are wrong, there are various automatics that absolutely won't shift at redline if you are in the manumatic mode. SMG type tranismissions might shift faster than manumatics, but as far as I am concerned the level of isolation is the same for both of them.

Maybe some, but not all manumatics shift at redline.  Most, in fact, will not. Take your run of the mill shiftronic and it wont shift.  Only the sportier automatics do that.  And you said, it was "nothing more than a really fast shifting tiptronic."  And as I pointed out, not all shiftronics shift like that, so its not like any shiftronic.

You're not making any sense. I know that from a mechanical aspect SMG is closer to a manual than an automatic, but in real life it behaves much like a good tiptronic type automatic, meaning it will hold the gear you put it in no matter what when in the manual mode.

What I'm saying is that it cant be considered like a typical manumatic because not all manumatics hold the gear at redline (although some do).

I never said it was a typical manumatic, in fact, it isn't even a good manumatic because it is completely different in design, all I said is that I don't think it involves the driver in the driving process any more than a good manumatic.

But you said yourself it is sportier and shifts occur quicker, so then by that logic, wouldnt it involve the driver more just by doing that?

Not by my logic anyway. The only time the driver is involved in the shift process when driving a car equipped with a manumatic or F1 style tranny is when he or she presses the shift button, in both cases the computer does the rest of the work.