Lugnutz for brains

[Eye of the Tiger]

So, back in August I went to Firestone and had new tires put on the Duster... yesterday I go to take the front wheels off to do my brakes, and the lugnuts won't budge, not for my impact wrench or my own 230lbs jumping on the end of a breaker bar.

Yesterday at 10:30am, I took it back to the morons who overtightened and/or crossthreaded my lugnuts.  It probably took them 2 hours to loosen all the lugnuts and torque them down properly, then there was one. They used their impact wrenches, huge breaker bars, torches, and finally air chisles to get that last remaining lugnut off. I left at 7:00pm with a cracked aluminium wheel, driving on my temporoary spare.  They are buying me a new rim and I don't have to pay for anything... but what a wasted day.

That is the second time I have had trouble with stupid tire guys overtightening lug nuts, but at least this time they're admitting their mistake and paying for it. The moral of the story is, tell those tire "technicians" to use a torque wrench on your lugs, and if they don't have one or don't know what one is, get the hell out of there!

[S204STi]

Your story reminds me of a bugger of a time I had working on a Jeep Liberty.  I had to remove a wheel for state inspection and found like you that one lug nut just wouldn't budge.  I tried every air gun in the shop, including a Thunder Gun and a couple of air lines to no avail.  A breaker bar with an additional cheater bar just rounded the thing, all I accomplished with an air chisel was to scar the wheel and split just the end of the nut off, with the cone section still stuck, so finally I was reduced to drilling it out.   All told I think I was buried in that for an hour and a half.

I always use a torque wrench, but then I am also somewhat more than a tire tech, so I expect more of myself.  I have had good luck with Discount Tire, specifically the one on College Ave in Fort Collins, CO.  There was one time when I had some monkey at a gas station fix a flat, and I insisted he go easy with the air gun and use a torque wrench to finally tighten them.  The guy must have thought I was a dink, because I hovered right behind him the whole time quizzing him.  But at least I knew I wouldn't have to resort to absurd measured to remove my wheel next time.

[AutobahnSHO]

Whenever I take mine off/on the impact wrench is quick-
The garage has some "torque sticks" to make sure they are properly torqued when they go back on- aboutb6-7 inches long and they are vehicle specific.  I've never had a problem getting wheels off after I use these, and really haven't had any front brake inconsistencies (warped rotors).
Do these work or should I go with a torque wrench??

--I bought the Sport van used with 120k miles.  One of the wheels is all dinged up where it looks like they chiselled and one of the lugnutz doesn't match the rest...
I checked ebay and those wheels go for almost $200?   

[Eye of the Tiger]

This shop seemed to be very inconsistent. For the 8+ hours I was there, I saw different guys using torque sticks, torque wrenches, and just plain impact wrenches to tighten lug nuts.? Maybe it's becuase they have to buy their own tools or something. I image the sticks will do just fine, but I still think you should use a proper torque wrench and torque each one down in increments, going around in the criss-cross pattern 2-3 times.

I also think that one lug may have been cross threaded. There were a few times where I saw these guys put the lugs into the sockets, put it right on the stud and tighten it down, without getting the threads started first. I was also talking to another customer who was waiting about how they shouldn't use torches on the aluminum wheel, so what do the geniues decide to do??

It's not like it's that complicated, but they made it compliacted. The classic case of taking the extra 2 minutes to do it right, vs. wasting all day fixing it / breaking tools / paying to replace the OEM aluminum wheel / dealing with me complaining in front of other potential customers who then turn around and walk out the door.

[S204STi]

The trouble with torque sticks is that you have to calibrate them to your entire system, and if anything in that system, such as the air hose, compressor pressure spikes/drops, or even how many "clicks" you go after it hits bottom can change the torque applied to the lug nut.  When you get a set you have to basically double check with a torque wrench until you come up with a consistent system, and then again like I said after that any variation causes a change in torque.  If you calibrate the stick and you find that 4 clicks after hitting bottom = 80ft/lbs with they air compressor at 150psi with a certain hose or regulator, if you go 5 clicks it may suddenly be 90ft/lbs, or if you go 3clicks it's 70ft/lbs.  (I am just pulling numbers out of thin air here, BTW).

I would say that a torque stick would be good to help prevent overtorquing with the impact gun, and then make the final tightening with a torque wrench.

Personally I use an Electric Impact most of the time except on big trucks, because unless I lay into it the lug nuts will hardly ever be overtightened, and the electric gun is easier to modulate.  Then I lower the vehicle until the wheel barely touches the ground, in order to keep it from moving, and do the final toque sequence with a torque wrench.  I have found that even after driving the car several miles the wheels never need to settle, and consequently it is not necessary to recheck after a few miles.  I found that performing the final torque sequence with the wheels fully loaded can lead to a wheel settling afterward, causing torque to drop at the lug nuts.  This turned out to bite me one time, which I may share someday.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I use an electric impact too, mostly because I was too cheap to buy an air compressor. I use it for removing stuff more than anything, but I might have to invest in some torque sticks eventually.

[AutobahnSHO]

How much is an electric?
Does it have more or less power than an air?

[S204STi]

How much is an electric?
Does it have more or less power than an air?

They can run anywhere from around $250 for a cheaper portable 1/2" square drive to around $400 or so for the nicer Mac or SnapOn portables.  A corded one can be had for less.  Generally they have less power than an air gun, and they also lose power as the battery runs down.  They are however portable and I like using mine for lug nuts duties.  If you are short on cash stick with a good air impact, preferably an Ingersoll Rand with adjustable speed.  Just make sure that after you set up your torque sticks you run in your lug nuts on the same setting every time.

[AutobahnSHO]

LOL
I use "borrowed" tools- Army "Morale, Welfare, Recreation" self-help garages.
I'm just too lazy because you have to check the tools out at a counter and just standing in line to get tools can make a 30minute job into an hour.. 

I take each van in every 1-2 months for SOMETHING anyways, and just use the torque sticks.  I'd love to get my own T-wrench though..

And the wife changed her mind about an aircompressor after she saw some device you hook up to the air and garden hose to shoot snow..  But we don't have the buck$.