NEW CAR BABY!!!!

[Raza]

Somewhat similar, but you lose that distinct sense of knowing you're channeling everything through the front 2. It'll still understeer, but they feel a little more balanced, and because they're [relatively] so controllable at the limit, AWD cars tend to encourage one to push harder.

You've never driven an A4?

No, but I've pushed a couple of AWD cars in my time.  For the most part, I don't subscribe to the AWD philosophy.

[850CSi]

Dynamically, I think the advantages over FWD aren't all that big, but they do feel more balanced and have more composure in inclement conditions, IMO. That's why, while I'm not anti-FWD like some are, I'd never buy a FWD Audi.

[Raza]

Dynamically, I think the advantages over FWD aren't all that big, but they do feel more balanced and have more composure in inclement conditions, IMO. That's why, while I'm not anti-FWD like some are, I'd never buy a FWD Audi.

Quattro is the raison d'etre for Audi. 

However, I feel reluctant to take an AWD car, because I'm skeptical of its advantages, and wary of its compromises.

[Catman]

Quattro is the raison d'etre for Audi.?

However, I feel reluctant to take an AWD car, because I'm skeptical of its advantages, and wary of its compromises.

Not to mention the long-term maintenance and possible pricey repair bills.

[MexicoCityM3]

As many of you may know, I was planning on buying a BMW 328i.


Well, I bought an Audi A4 2.0T quattro.


I'll tell you just why I made this move: The 328i with a manual transmission was like a 2-3 month wait, and I needed the car in less than a month. The Audi was available in a stick in about a month. Secondly, the Audi dealer gave me an amazing deal. $369 for 24 months with $0 down, whereas the BMW was $505 with $3500 down.

Anyway, it wasn't my first choice, but it was my second, and still a good choice. I was initially going to drop the extra cash on the BMW, because I liked it better, but then I asked myself if I liked it THAT much better. The wait for MT killed it completely. Next time for sure.

I pick it up on December 2nd. The wait will KILL me.

BTW, this is a lot like MTL_A4 SJ_GTI's situation when he bought his A4.

EDIT: My bad, it was $0 down. Some weekend special. Price slipped my mind. Makes the deal even juicier.

That deal you got was extraordinary. I do hope we don't lose you to Audi forever, that A4 is very good.

[AKL]

DAMN!

The A4 is a great vehicle.
In 2007, I hope some of the 2006 models are on the used car lot. LOVE to give it a consideration.

Have fun waiting 

Oh just wondering....how was your experience with your TL? I might give it a consideration to, I just visited the Acura dealer to check out used TL's....

[ro51092]

DAMN!

The A4 is a great vehicle.
In 2007, I hope some of the 2006 models are on the used car lot. LOVE to give it a consideration.

Have fun waiting 

Oh just wondering....how was your experience with your TL? I might give it a consideration to, I just visited the Acura dealer to check out used TL's....

I suppose it is a decent car for what it's supposed to do, but it really does torque steer a lot, and it isn't well made. Mine has chintzy plasticky pieces all throughout the interior. I wasn't too thrilled with it.

However, mine may have been just one example.

[AKL]

I suppose it is a decent car for what it's supposed to do, but it really does torque steer a lot, and it isn't well made. Mine has chintzy plasticky pieces all throughout the interior. I wasn't too thrilled with it.

However, mine may have been just one example.

Well i'm leaning towards the A4 or 3er more. I'd just like to give the TL a consideration, I believe for the 2006 models of the TL they kind of reduced torque steer quite a bit (but not totally) I'll take one for a test drive when I get the time. I saw a few 04 models on the used car lot... 

[TheIntrepid]

My friend got a 2006 TL with everything but Navi. It's an excellent car...but they reduced the horsepower from 270 in 2004 to only 258 this year. My cousin has a 2004 TL and there is a noticable decrease in power between the 2004 and 2006 cars. I really dig the styling... I'd take a white one with the Type-S package and A-Spec body kit.

[850CSi]

Well i'm leaning towards the A4 or 3er more. I'd just like to give the TL a consideration, I believe for the 2006 models of the TL they kind of reduced torque steer quite a bit (but not totally) I'll take one for a test drive when I get the time. I saw a few 04 models on the used car lot...?

Would you be selling your Accord? Because it wouldn't make much sense to have a fancier version of your car in the same garage.

[heelntoe]

My friend got a 2006 TL with everything but Navi. It's an excellent car...but they reduced the horsepower from 270 in 2004 to only 258 this year. My cousin has a 2004 TL and there is a noticable decrease in power between the 2004 and 2006 cars. I really dig the styling... I'd take a white one with the Type-S package and A-Spec body kit.

are you sure about the hp difference. i thought it was due to a change to SAE or something like that.

[Raza]

are you sure about the hp difference. i thought it was due to a change to SAE or something like that.

It probably is because of SAE net.  Toyota got hit the hardest.

[AKL]

Would you be selling your Accord? Because it wouldn't make much sense to have a fancier version of your car in the same garage.

Oh, no that's why i'm leaning towards the 3er or A4. Just would like to be open minded and look at all its competitors

[SVT_Power]

My friend got a 2006 TL with everything but Navi. It's an excellent car...but they reduced the horsepower from 270 in 2004 to only 258 this year. My cousin has a 2004 TL and there is a noticable decrease in power between the 2004 and 2006 cars. I really dig the styling... I'd take a white one with the Type-S package and A-Spec body kit.

Same output, different standards resulting in different rating

[Raza]

Not to mention the long-term maintenance and possible pricey repair bills.

(compromises)

[FlatBlackCaddy]

 

Some of this AWD banter is pretty amusing.

[Raza]

Some of this AWD banter is pretty amusing.

I know that AWD has some significant advantages, but I'm not sure that I wouldn't just go with a comparable FWD car, unless big power was thrown into the equation. 

That said, as you know, the WRX is one of my favorite cars.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I know that AWD has some significant advantages, but I'm not sure that I wouldn't just go with a comparable FWD car, unless big power was thrown into the equation.?

That said, as you know, the WRX is one of my favorite cars.

Whats your definition of big power? Most modern cars are at the point where any V-6 and any Turbo 4(sans VW's pathetic 200HP four) shouldn't be mated to the front wheels alone. The Evo is a perfect example of a AWD system that still relies on FWD, but giving huge benefits compared to its added parts and their huge liability as far as reliability is concerned(i see no added problems but apparently adding a few extra driveshafts and another diff cause reliability to drop)

[Raza]

Whats your definition of big power? Most modern cars are at the point where any V-6 and any Turbo 4(sans VW's pathetic 200HP four) shouldn't be mated to the front wheels alone. The Evo is a perfect example of a AWD system that still relies on FWD, but giving huge benefits compared to its added parts and their huge liability as far as reliability is concerned(i see no added problems but apparently adding a few extra driveshafts and another diff cause reliability to drop)

Over 220 or so. 

[FlatBlackCaddy]

So basically four cylinder cars geared for economy. I see no advantage at that point either. I wouldn't want a car like a TSX with AWD, or a yaris/base honda civic,etc.

[Raza]

So basically four cylinder cars geared for economy. I see no advantage at that point either. I wouldn't want a car like a TSX with AWD, or a yaris/base honda civic,etc.

Right.  But, unlike most, I really do believe that all layouts have their advantages and can be fun.  I like FWD, RWD, and AWD. 

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Right.? But, unlike most, I really do believe that all layouts have their advantages and can be fun.? I like FWD, RWD, and AWD.?

Sure, i own one of each, FWD is nice(though i require a LSD if there is any power there). Having driven great examples of each i would have no problem with FWD. Most modern cars no longer meet my FWD requirments(too heavy, NO LSD's, too big).

I just found your comment on the top of this page to be, well, showing a lack of experience.

[Raza]

Sure, i own one of each, FWD is nice(though i require a LSD if there is any power there). Having driven great examples of each i would have no problem with FWD. Most modern cars no longer meet my FWD requirments(too heavy, NO LSD's, too big).

I just found your comment on the top of this page to be, well, showing a lack of experience.

As an owner, I would have to weigh whether its safety advantages over RWD and its fun advantages over FWD would be worth the extra cost and weight. 

[FlatBlackCaddy]

As an owner, I would have to weigh whether its safety advantages over RWD and its fun advantages over FWD would be worth the extra cost and weight.?

Not eveyone has the choice for all three, as someone who owns RWD sports cars(covers that base) and lives in a area with fairly poor climate and doesn't want to bother with RWD and trying to drive in feet of snow(been there, barely made it home one day in my Q45), AWD doesn't seem to be such a hard decision. Add to that the power levels of even sporty mainstream sedans(i like the altima, but 250~hp through a open diff FWD car is just plain gay), AWD has many benefits.

[gasoline]

Stop, stop!
Three pages and no pictures?
Somebody wants to get beat up???!
Get with it young man!!

[Raza]

Stop, stop!
Three pages and no pictures?
Somebody wants to get beat up???!
Get with it young man!!

He doesn't have the car yet.  Won't until December.

[Danish]

He did the next best thing on the first page

[Raza]

Not eveyone has the choice for all three, as someone who owns RWD sports cars(covers that base) and lives in a area with fairly poor climate and doesn't want to bother with RWD and trying to drive in feet of snow(been there, barely made it home one day in my Q45), AWD doesn't seem to be such a hard decision. Add to that the power levels of even sporty mainstream sedans(i like the altima, but 250~hp through a open diff FWD car is just plain gay), AWD has many benefits.

Yeah.  Similarly, AWD doesn't make much sense for someone who lives in Florida.  Where I live, we get snow, but not enough to justify AWD solely on its all weather traction, in my opinion.  After having driven both FWD and RWD through the worst of our winters, I feel safe in either one.  I do think about how a fun a WRX would be when the white stuff falls from the sky (not the good white stuff, the cold stuff), but I'd have to think about it a lot before I pulled the trigger, since I'm in the position to have only one car.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

Yeah.? Similarly, AWD doesn't make much sense for someone who lives in Florida.? Where I live, we get snow, but not enough to justify AWD solely on its all weather traction, in my opinion.? After having driven both FWD and RWD through the worst of our winters, I feel safe in either one.? I do think about how a fun a WRX would be when the white stuff falls from the sky (not the good white stuff, the cold stuff), but I'd have to think about it a lot before I pulled the trigger, since I'm in the position to have only one car.

Well sunny florida would be the only place i would not think of AWD. To me there is no down side to AWD, increased traction(not just in snow, but rain, dirt, etc) and better handling(well i should say better in the sense that you can apply power sooner out of a corner than in high powered FWD cars).

[Raza]

Well sunny florida would be the only place i would not think of AWD. To me there is no down side to AWD, increased traction(not just in snow, but rain, dirt, etc) and better handling(well i should say better in the sense that you can apply power sooner out of a corner than in high powered FWD cars).

Over FWD cars, yeah.  But if I didn't have anything to consider, it would have to be a mid engined rear driver that's the best thing out there.  I mean, AWD is the ultimate compromise for performance and practicality.  Especially in a package like the WRX--25 grand, pushing it against a Mustang, it's a more precise machine.  If you've got 30K to spend and you need a performance car that you can drive everyday, AWD hot rod sedans like the Impreza and your MS6 are the way to go. 

Another thing to consider is how many different ways that AWD can be done.  Take the Evo and the first gen TT for example.  Two completely different ideologies.