I just love this car...

[ifcar]

Agreed.

BUT---->



This is up there

That's a pretty good pic. Toyota should take all its Camry photos in the dark.

[sportyaccordy]

I like the old one too. If they switched to aluminum blocks and made manual trannies again I don't see why someone would pay the premium for something like a Maxima over this. Same for the Malibu and Accord/Camry/Altima...if GM marketed the cars as exciting they would probably sell more of them.

[TheIntrepid]

I like the old one too. If they switched to aluminum blocks and made manual trannies again I don't see why someone would pay the premium for something like a Maxima over this. Same for the Malibu and Accord/Camry/Altima...if GM marketed the cars as exciting they would probably sell more of them.

IMO The old Impala looks like absolute shit. Well actually... not absolute shit... but the interior does.

[JYODER240]

Agreed.

BUT---->



This is up there

The Camry is an odd mix of blandness and aggresiveness IMO. The overall design is very vanilla but then with some trims they try to make the front facia aggressive in an attempt to make it sporty-looking.

[cawimmer430]

The Camry actually looks pretty decent with this body kit. Beats the stock version by miles.

[TheIntrepid]

The Camry actually looks pretty decent with this body kit. Beats the stock version by miles.

FYI I DO have that body kit It's factory on the SE models.

[cawimmer430]

FYI I DO have that body kit It's factory on the SE models.

[The Pirate]

Yeah but how many do you really see with the V6 and the SE ground effects?  Most of the Camrys I see are the base model 4 cyl, with floaty ride and soft seats.  The Japanese Buick, if you will.  The car does look good with the cladding, but the base models are a bit awkward looking IMO.

[TheIntrepid]

Yeah but how many do you really see with the V6 and the SE ground effects? Most of the Camrys I see are the base model 4 cyl, with floaty ride and soft seats. The Japanese Buick, if you will. The car does look good with the cladding, but the base models are a bit awkward looking IMO.

Agreed 100%

[nickdrinkwater]

Actually, that doesn't look that bad.

The black paint helps hide the hideous lines  :P

[TBR]

It is awkward cladding or not. Don't see much of a reason for an enthuisist to buy one over an Accord or Mazda6.

[TheIntrepid]

It is awkward cladding or not. Don't see much of a reason for an enthuisist to buy one over an Accord or Mazda6.

To each his own

[ro51092]

Yeah but how many do you really see with the V6 and the SE ground effects?  Most of the Camrys I see are the base model 4 cyl, with floaty ride and soft seats.  The Japanese Buick, if you will.  The car does look good with the cladding, but the base models are a bit awkward looking IMO.

Japanese Buick=Avalon

TBR, why would an enthusiast take a Mazda6's 220hp Ford V-6 over the 268 hp 3.5?

(I would still take a Legacy over all of them, and a Passat, but I wouldn't take a Passat over the legacy)

[HurricaneSteve]

It's not exciting, but it's pretty.
Very pretty.

The Camry, on the other hand, is just "bleh".
You could like it, but it's not an head-turner so much as an eye-catcher.

It's safe-stylish (allows Camry buyers to think they're risqu?.

No offense but I have to laugh every time you find the Impala "pretty" and then you rip on the Camry for being boring. The Impala is okay looking but it took alot of styling cues from the current Accord and has about as much visual excitement as the Lumina.

If the Camry is "safe-stylish", does that mean the Impala is "safe-boring"?

[TBR]

Japanese Buick=Avalon

TBR, why would an enthusiast take a Mazda6's 220hp Ford V-6 over the 268 hp 3.5?

(I would still take a Legacy over all of them, and a Passat, but I wouldn't take a Passat over the legacy)

Because power isn't everything. Besides, paired with the 5-spd MT the 6s isn't just a whole bunch slower than a V6 Camry.

[sportyaccordy]

IMO The old Impala looks like absolute shit. Well actually... not absolute shit... but the interior does.

And that is why the Japanese keep winning. It is all in the details. If GM had made the Impala's interior reminiscent of Cadillacs, not necessarily in materials quality, but layout, button design and font, gauges, etc., there is really NO reason for them not to compete with the Japanese.

I will go as far as to say that if GM switches over to aluminum blocks, offers manual transmissions, and steps up their interior game, I might look into buying one down the line. If they offer the same technologies as the Japanese (overhead valves on their V6s, navigation, HIDs) at a price advantage, really there would be no reason to buy Japanese. It's why Hyundai is winning right now. Even if they didn't sell the bulk of their cars with all that stuff, the panache rub-off effect of offering those options pays off. But we'll see.

[The Pirate]

I don't even care so much about interior quality, as long as it's functional.  I just want my damn manual transmission.


Grand Prix GTP with a 5 speed anyone?  That would be a fun car, and I'd buy one tomorrow if they made it.

[BRealistic]

I will go as far as to say that if GM switches over to aluminum blocks, offers manual transmissions, and steps up their interior game, I might look into buying one down the line. If they offer the same technologies as the Japanese (overhead valves on their V6s, navigation, HIDs) at a price advantage, really there would be no reason to buy Japanese. It's why Hyundai is winning right now. Even if they didn't sell the bulk of their cars with all that stuff, the panache rub-off effect of offering those options pays off. But we'll see.

One question- if GM can make an engine that has considerably more power and gets good fuel economy for less money than an import DOHC inline four engine- why does it matter where the cam is located? Sure- of you take price out of the equation- GM's pushrod V6s are not that impressive. But for the money, they are not bad at all.

I do think that GM has been heading in the right direction with every new release and mid run model update. It seems most of the criticisms I have are minor compared to the competition.

[sportyaccordy]

One question- if GM can make an engine that has considerably more power and gets good fuel economy for less money than an import DOHC inline four engine- why does it matter where the cam is located? Sure- of you take price out of the equation- GM's pushrod V6s are not that impressive. But for the money, they are not bad at all.

I do think that GM has been heading in the right direction with every new release and mid run model update. It seems most of the criticisms I have are minor compared to the competition.

When comparing V6s to L4s yes, GM has an advantage. But I'll probably go for the most powerful motor option available, which would mean I would pay the premium for the smoother DOHC motor in the import. Pushrods are just more thrashy at the top of the rev range, and not in a good way. I'm sure GM could slap something together, like using the 3.5 in the CTS. Nissan is selling the Altima 3.5 5-speed for $23,000 MSRP. An Impala or Grand Prix with an equally impressive motor and drivetrain at the same price would be highly competitive.

[gasoline]

No offense but I have to laugh every time you find the Impala "pretty" and then you rip on the Camry for being boring. The Impala is okay looking but it took alot of styling cues from the current Accord and has about as much visual excitement as the Lumina.

If the Camry is "safe-stylish", does that mean the Impala is "safe-boring"?

Heheh. Maybe. All I know is that I really like the Impala.
It's just one of those things.

Personally, I do not think the Camry is ugly. People who think that are overreacting. To me, it is potentially pretty, and at worst neutral. It certainly does nothing wrong per se.
The Impala doesn't shout, for sure, but I have just always been drawn to it.
I think it's the rear 3/4 angle...
The Holdens look like it a lot (angle, stance), BTW, and that is where I think it got its inspiration--not the Accord.

When comparing V6s to L4s yes, GM has an advantage. But I'll probably go for the most powerful motor option available, which would mean I would pay the premium for the smoother DOHC motor in the import. Pushrods are just more thrashy at the top of the rev range, and not in a good way. I'm sure GM could slap something together, like using the 3.5 in the CTS. Nissan is selling the Altima 3.5 5-speed for $23,000 MSRP. An Impala or Grand Prix with an equally impressive motor and drivetrain at the same price would be highly competitive.

Pushrods don't have to be "thrashy"--especially not this one. GM deliberately won't put any more money into this pushrod V6 (NVH development). They call it the "High Value" engine.

Other than that, it's a tossup between whiny revving and "rattle" at the top end neither is "refined" and is a matter of sound preference.

[JYODER240]

Japanese Buick=Avalon

TBR, why would an enthusiast take a Mazda6's 220hp Ford V-6 over the 268 hp 3.5?

(I would still take a Legacy over all of them, and a Passat, but I wouldn't take a Passat over the legacy)

Please explain to me how more horsepower automaticaly makes a car better for an enthusiast?

[ro51092]

Please explain to me how more horsepower automaticaly makes a car better for an enthusiast?

Explain to me how the Mazda6's chassis is better than the Camry SE's. 

(I wouldn't take either of them, so I'm not trolling. I hate the Camry)

[JYODER240]

Explain to me how the Mazda6's chassis is better than the Camry SE's.?

(I wouldn't take either of them, so I'm not trolling. I hate the Camry)

The Mazda 6 is a whole lot more involving to drive. A Camry isn't even like a car its like a transportation appliance.

[TheIntrepid]

The Mazda 6 is a whole lot more involving to drive. A Camry isn't even like a car its like a transportation appliance.

Easy there tiger.

[JYODER240]

Easy there tiger.

Does the truth hurt?

[TheIntrepid]

Does the truth hurt?

Yes

However it's not MEANT to be a sports car. It's meant to get you from point A to point B in comfort and smoothness. In that, it does it's job perfectly.

[JYODER240]

Yes

However it's not MEANT to be a sports car. It's meant to get you from point A to point B in comfort and smoothness. In that, it does it's job perfectly.

Then why did you get defensive when i said it was a transportation appliance? If you say "its meant to get you from point A to point B in comfort and smoothness" shouldn't you also then agree that its uninvolving and a "transportation appliance"?

[TheIntrepid]

Then why did you get defensive when i said it was a transportation appliance? If you say "its meant to get you from point A to point B in comfort and smoothness" shouldn't you also then agree that its uninvolving and a "transportation appliance"?

You know... I don't actually TROLL the Camry. I know that there's nothing sporty about it... and I DO agree that fundamentally it IS a "transportation appliance"... but one needn't put it so bluntly. In my opinion though it's still a very nice car. Show me one other sub $20k sedan with reclining rear seats?

[JYODER240]

You know... I don't actually TROLL the Camry. I know that there's nothing sporty about it... and I DO agree that fundamentally it IS a "transportation appliance"... but one needn't put it so bluntly. In my opinion though it's still a very nice car. Show me one other sub $20k sedan with reclining rear seats?

Does "transportation module" sound better?

[ifcar]

You know... I don't actually TROLL the Camry. I know that there's nothing sporty about it... and I DO agree that fundamentally it IS a "transportation appliance"... but one needn't put it so bluntly. In my opinion though it's still a very nice car. Show me one other sub $20k sedan with reclining rear seats?

The Camry doesn't meet that criteria. According to what I'm seeing, only XLEs have reclining rear seats.