Anti-VW Club

[ifcar]

Oh, and yeah...  VWs wipe the floor with just about every American and Japanese car (save Mazda and Subaru) in handling.  Ever drive one of those American wet noodles?  Yuck!

I thought I was gonna spin off the road countless times in the last couple weeks driving an '04 Dodge Stratus.  The thing can't handle a simple On/Off ramp at more than 50.  I used to take 'em in the Saab at 80 with ease, assuming there was no other traffic around.  When I tested the B5 Passat on the Garden State Pkwy., I gave it the "Saab treatment" and it handled it without blinking.  That was the moment that sealed the deal in my mind.

Or else I would've had to go BMW shopping and spend more than I wanted (at least at the moment).  Believe me, I was ready after driving some of these poor handling cars. 

IIRC, that was the Stratus coupe, right? That's not an American car, it's a Mitsubishi Eclipse.

[TurboDan]

Nope, it's the Stratus sedan.  There's nothing wrong with the engine or auto tranny.  In fact, if it actually handled it wouldn't be a bad ride at all!  I've driven a couple Eclipses before, and they didn't handle like the Stratus did.  They weren't BMWs by any stretch, but they definitely handled better than the Stratus.

[sandertheshark]

There's plenty of American cars that handle just fine.  Chevy Cobalt and Impala aren't on par with Europeans but they're competent, especially in SS trim.  G6 is quite good.  GTO is superb.  (I guess that's not really American though.)  The Sigmas (CTS and STS) are excellent.  Ford Focus is good.  Apparently the Fusion/Milan/MKZ triplets are very good.  The Cab-forward Chryslers (Concorde, 300M, Intrepid) were great.  The 300C and Charger aren't as good but you can blame Benz for that.

[L. ed foote]

Well, I dig my A2 Jetta and my Scirocco just fine, thank you 

[L. ed foote]

  Plus, the manual trannies in VWs are a hell of alot better than any Toyota or Ford!

The transmission's fine, it's the shifter that's a PITA.  Too much slop...

You know, to rebuild the shifter in my Jetta, I have to drop the exhaust? 

[ChrisV]

I've never been a hippy, and yet I've owned over 30 VWs. I've built many mnore for customers. i LOVE air cooled VWs, but the early water cooled cars are great, too. iv'e been involved with road race and rally Rabbits and Sciroccos, and they've been fun, fast, and reliable. The air cooled VWs have been able to do everything from offroad racing to custom car shows to drag racing. Ever been in an air cooled beetle that can run 10s and still be streetable? I have (my buddy's stock looking '63 beetle. Sounded like a big bore motorcycle, and acellerated harder).

If you can't find a past VW that you like, then I suggest you really haven't looked with an open mind.







Those were some of mine...

Cars like this are still competetive:




So, no, I can't join the club, as there are way too many older VWs I am a huge fan of. Beetles, Busses, Ghias, Squarebacks, A1 Rabbits, early Sciroccos, first and second gen Jettas. I had a custom first gen Jetta and wouldn't mind a custom A2 Jetta for a daily driver... like this car but in black:

[sandertheshark]

If you can't find a past VW that you like, then I suggest you really haven't looked with an open mind.

How did I know you'd eventually come in here and say that?

[TurboDan]

There's plenty of American cars that handle just fine.  Chevy Cobalt and Impala aren't on par with Europeans but they're competent, especially in SS trim.  G6 is quite good.  GTO is superb.  (I guess that's not really American though.)  The Sigmas (CTS and STS) are excellent.  Ford Focus is good.  Apparently the Fusion/Milan/MKZ triplets are very good.  The Cab-forward Chryslers (Concorde, 300M, Intrepid) were great.  The 300C and Charger aren't as good but you can blame Benz for that.

OK, to go car by car:

Chevy Cobalt and Impala - Don't handle as well as a VW, and you get to not handle as well while sitting in a car with a cheap plastic interior.

G6 - Had one as a rental. Not horrible, but not impressive, either.  Didn't like the big gaps in the dash panels. 

CTS - I'll give you that one, but the post should've ended there.

Ford Focus - See Cobalt.  They do handle a little better, though.

Don't know anything about the Fusion line, so can't comment.

Concorde/Intrepid - Bwahahahaha!  They were BOATS in every sense of the word!  I once had to drive around St. Augustine, FL for about 5 days in a Concorde and it was hell on Earth!  My ex girlfriend had an Intrepid, and I would dread driving that POS.  It was bulky, awkward, the steering was terribly unresponsive, and it handled just like it looked!

300C - Personally, I think the 300C will outhandle the Intrepid/Concorde any day of the week!  I don't mind the 300C, but it's HUGE.

[sandertheshark]

Concorde/Intrepid - Bwahahahaha! They were BOATS in every sense of the word! I once had to drive around St. Augustine, FL for about 5 days in a Concorde and it was hell on Earth! My ex girlfriend had an Intrepid, and I would dread driving that POS. It was bulky, awkward, the steering was terribly unresponsive, and it handled just like it looked!

I don't know.? My friend has a Concorde and I think it's one of the best-handling front-drive full-size cars I've driven.? Ask Touareg how he likes his Intrepid.

[TurboDan]

Were there any upgrades done to the Intrepid suspensions?  Then, maybe.  Was it the WORST handling car ever?  Not at all.  But it can't be compared to a VW. 

Maybe the bulkiness put me off more than the handling, though.  It's been a while since I drove one.  ('03, I think.)

[ChrisV]

Were there any upgrades done to the Intrepid suspensions?  Then, maybe.  Was it the WORST handling car ever?  Not at all.  But it can't be compared to a VW. 

Maybe the bulkiness put me off more than the handling, though.  It's been a while since I drove one.  ('03, I think.)

My '99 Contour SVT outhandled my roommate's '99 Jetta GLX (and frankly, pretty much any other factory vehicle in anything close to it's price class, and could hold it's own with much more specialized vehicles).

[TurboDan]

My '99 Contour SVT outhandled my roommate's '99 Jetta GLX (and frankly, pretty much any other factory vehicle in anything close to it's price class, and could hold it's own with much more specialized vehicles).

That's because it was a Mondeo.

[ChrisV]

That's because it was a Mondeo.

it's as american as a lot of cars on your list..

The Fusion is a Mazda 6, and it handles very similar, as lessons learned on my car went into it. The point is, broad generalizations used to insult cars are pointless.

[sandertheshark]

The point is, broad generalizations used to insult cars are pointless.

That's true.  But in this case, also harmless.

[L. ed foote]

So, no, I can't join the club, as there are way too many older VWs I am a huge fan of. Beetles, Busses, Ghias, Squarebacks, A1 Rabbits, early Sciroccos, first and second gen Jettas. I had a custom first gen Jetta and wouldn't mind a custom A2 Jetta for a daily driver... like this car but in black:

Someday, someday, I'm going to do that VR6 swap (though that isn't what's pictured above), based on Project Eurotrash (owner goes by the name "Lawn Ninja" on the 'tex)

[ChrisV]

How did I know you'd eventually come in here and say that?

Because you know you were in the crosshairs? Because you feel that not being open minded is a virtue?





Just pushin' ya around a bit.

But seriously, you can have a lot of fun with car like the ones I posted, and there are very valid reasons for owning/liking them. If someone refuses to even acknowledge that, then what does that really say about thier character, and why should anyone, especially me, respect that? I can respect simply saying I like something else better, but being actively against cars that you haven't even experienced? That's just silly. That's like saying American cars can't handle, without having experienced more than one or two.

[ChrisV]

That's true.  But in this case, also harmless.

I don't think that promoting ignorant generalizations on a car forum is really all that harmless. It spreads and supports the general ignorance of cars that exists. When we as supposedly knowledgeable car enthusiasts (and the people that influence those around us in real life) promote and even believe those generalizations, then how is anyone out there supposed to form informed opinions? It's up to us to NOT promote those misinformed generalizations at all times. If you care enough to BE here, then you should care enough to follow suit.

[sandertheshark]

I know.? I'm just in this for fun.? I don't seriously hate or old anything against any cars, or any particular drivers either.

[pommes-t]

One of the most adorable cars ever built. Last Saturday I talked to a friend of my parents who live in Ethiopia for many years. And he drove a Beetle there all the time. It was easy to higher it so he could really use it as an offroader. And everybody there could fix it.

Yours looks absolutely amazing! 

[sandertheshark]

You know who else loved those old Beetles, right

[TheIntrepid]

I don't know.  My friend has a Concorde and I think it's one of the best-handling front-drive full-size cars I've driven.  Ask Touareg how he likes his Intrepid.

TurboDan

The Intrepid's a fine handling car given it's FWD. The suspension on the Intrepids was a bit stiffer than the Concorde as it was a sportier version of the LH-body cars (Intrepid, Concorde, LHS, 300M). Maybe the one you rented was a rental lemon, but mine's been immaculately maintained and even at 140,000km, it still behaves like new.

[ChrisV]

You know who else loved those old Beetles, right

So?

He also had a fetish for Mercedes and BMWs, too. The Beetle, while initially concieved before he came to power, was one of his very few good ideas (even a psychotic madman can have those, you know). But the Beetles that came to market were built by the NEW VW company, a company started by the BRITISH occupation forces after the war, then turned over to german control many years later. it has nothing to DO with Hitler or the kDf company.

[sandertheshark]

I can see it's going to be hard being this club's official spokesshark.

[TheIntrepid]

I can see it's going to be hard being this club's official spokesshark.

Here's your first assignment. State everything wrong with my new Touareg... as a vehicle. Why should someone not buy it?

[sandertheshark]

Here's your first assignment. State everything wrong with my new Touareg... as a vehicle. Why should someone not buy it?

Two words.  Yukon Denali.

[TurboDan]

Two words.  Yukon Denali.

Yeah, with a whole 13MPG in traffic.  Screw the environment, and give money to Middle Eastern dictators in the process.  My kinda car.

[giant_mtb]

I was cooking this one up just now, but looks like you beat me to it

hahahahaha

The last line is the real kicker.

[sandertheshark]

Yeah, with a whole 13MPG in traffic. Screw the environment, and give money to Middle Eastern dictators in the process. My kinda car.

Of course it's your kinda car.  You're a Republican. 

[850CSi]

Yeah, with a whole 13MPG in traffic.? Screw the environment, and give money to Middle Eastern dictators in the process.? My kinda car.

We've given a lot more $$$ to Middle Eastern dictators in written checks than any gas-guzzling SUVs ever will. 

[ChrisV]

We've given a lot more $$$ to Middle Eastern dictators in written checks than any gas-guzzling SUVs ever will. 

Too true.

What's worse, one 16 mpg SUV with one person in it (like my Rangie), or two 26 mpg sedans with one person in each? Right now, no one would have a problem with the latter..