Anti-VW Club

[SaltyDog]

I like the GTI, Golf, and TDI engines they offer, and I really like some of their older offerings.  Though the Jetta sucks and is overpriced, the Passat is overpriced, the Eos is stupid and overpriced, the Taureg is overpriced and too luxury oriented, I won't call myself anti-VW.  They can make good cars, they just usually don't

[TurboDan]

What don't you like about the Eos?  It's a beautiful car, is the perfect size, has a great interior, and has a convertible hardtop.  Maybe I'd start it at $24K rather than $28K, but I like it alot.

I haven't driven it yet, though.  I might have to take one for a spin some time.  If it handles well, I probably would take it over even an A4 convertible, as it's smaller and more fresh looking.

Alot of people like the fact that the Touareg is luxury-oriented.  In the past, if you wanted a luxury SUV, you either had to buy something ridiculously priced like a Range Rover or something wimpy like the RX300.  (Yes, I know the LX470 is out there, too.. but whatever.)  The Touareg has great towing and alot of room with a great interior and better handling than most SUVs.  It also has a diesel option, which is awesome.

[SaltyDog]

It doesn't seem to be a driver's car.  Is it even standard with a manual?  Just seems to be a better, but more expensive Sebring or Solara.  Boring, and I don't like 'verts anyway.

Just saw your edit.  I do like the Taureg(man, I keep butchering that,  Too lazy to look up) but I'd like to see a stripped down version offered as a base with a lower pricetag.

[ifcar]

"The Touareg has great towing and alot of room with a great interior and better handling than most SUVs.  "

It's so heavy that it's not a great handler, behind cars like the SRX, FX, and new MDX. And interior packaging is a definite sore point, there's very little rear seat space.

But it is a good combination of off-road and towing ability with luxury and (relative) affordability.

[BRealistic]

I thought the Taureg and Cayenne had about the same interior room as a Ford Escape?

[ifcar]

Maybe dimensionally, but the Escape seat is more comfortable. So is the Cayenne's, actually. They're higher and have more foot space beneath the front seats, which the measurements can't really capture.

[Vinsanity]

Vinsanity, is that a 2.0 or a 2.2?

2.0L - 9000rpm

although the 2.2L is rated at 237hp (after the new SAE standard) and the 2.0 was rated at 240, the 2.2L's have dyno'ed slightly higher than the 2.0's. oh well, I like being able to claim the higher redline

[Vinsanity]

And ---- even then I don't understand the point of making a club against a brand, and especially a brand with interesting models. It's just a car- and there seems to be a lot of people willing to pay a little extra for price and repairs to have something different,

is the joke getting old already?

[nickdrinkwater]

I can't join.  I have a Seat which is based on a VW, and my family has a Passat.  If there is a positively-VW Club, I'll join!

[rohan]

You know who else loved those old Beetles, right

There's a reason why he drove one- the whole shootin match was his idea more or less.  I personally don't like Vw's because they are so freakin boring but I don't hate them.  They just seem like BMW pretenders to me but I'm not very informed about what VW's really are as cars so my opinion is just that- my opinion.  But they just don't do anything for me but if someone wanted to give me one I wouldn't turn it down.

See link
http://people.westminstercollege.edu/staff/bknorr/html/history.htm

[BRealistic]

:P

[sandertheshark]

^^^ ^^^

[Nebtek2002]

Gee, there's just SO MUCH to love about old air-cooled VWs:

1) No heat in the winter.

2) No ventilation in the summer.

3) High interior noise levels.

4) Expensive parts relative to what you got. My Dad got a single-speed windshield wiper ,no washer,motor for his '57 Bug for what his mechanic told him a 3-speed motor with integral washer pump for a Cadillac cost.

5) Contrary to the factory hype, not very good winter traction. Most modern FWDs, and a goodly lot of RWDs, so long as they have good tires, can shame a bug on the slick stuff.
Even in the Bug's heyday, conventional RWDs with limited-slip rear ends could go where no Bug dared.

6) Non-breathable upholstery over uncomfortable seats. Cheap rubber on the floor. Nothing to deaden sound underneath the rubber.

7) "Air-cooled" engines depend a lot on oil to keep them cool. The VW should have had a larger oil capacity than a Falcon, but actually had half the Falcon's capacity. VW ads actually claimed that this was a GOOD thing.

Early water-cooled VWs had crappy bodies that rusted badly before the 3-year payments were finished. But at least they had heat.

I must say that there are a lot of diesel Rabbits still chugging along, though their door bottoms flap in the breeze.

The present VWs don't seem to be bad cars, but they're way overpriced.

[SJ_GTI]

I don't even have an iPod.

It does match my iBook though. 

[SJ_GTI]

I personally don't like Vw's because they are so freakin boring but I don't hate them.? They just seem like BMW pretenders to me but I'm not very informed about what VW's really are as cars so my opinion is just that- my opinion.? But they just don't do anything for me but if someone wanted to give me one I wouldn't turn it down.

See stuff like this I just don't understand.

VW's are boring? Well I guess that's relative. Are VW's more boring than Toyotas? Hondas? Chevies? Fords? Lexus'? Acuras? What is the basis for them to be judged?

In general VW's seem to be on the more "fun" side of the spectrum IMHO. Outside of a Mazdaspeed3 or Cobalt SS I can't think of a more fun car in the GTI's class. Same with the GLI (versus say, the TSX, Accord, even Mazda6 and Ponitac G6). I guess if you compare a GTI to an S2000 the VW would be boring...?

I am also not sure what you mean with the "BMW" pretender comment. I don't know a lot of people that drive VW's (there's me, a guy I worked with in Montreal that drove a Gold TDI, and my cousin who has a Passat), but I've never met someone in a VW who thought it was comparable to a BMW. I don't think anyone on this forum claims their VW is a BMW either (other than Raza, but he's delusional). From a marketing POV VW's do lean toward being an aspirational brand (ie: you pay a premium to drive their cars...you won't find them advertising great discounts), but the most recent commercials I have seen didn't relate at all to BMW (GTI as the anti-ricer, Jetta and "safe happens" seems Volvo-ish, and Passat is almost marketed as the anti-BMW in their ego-free commercials).

If you have never driven a VW, it might be worthwhile just stopping by a dealer and taking one or two out for a test drive. Before I drove the GTI the only VW product on my shopping list was the Audi A4.

[sportyaccordy]

In my opinion, you're way off.

With modifications I think they look great. But to me, visually they are the equivalent of Ikea office furniture. A dichotomy of high style and detail with a general lack of passion and flair. They are visually appealing and in another echelon of design from their Japanese competitors, but at the same time, to me, a Passat is no more exciting visually than a Camry. Dynamically it may be in another league, but all the straight cut lines and the black underbody don't suggest it.

I think design-wise VW peaked in the mid-90s.

[Vinsanity]

Passat is almost marketed as the anti-BMW in their ego-free commercials

isn't that a little contradictory to VW being an "aspirational brand"? the message I always took from that ad was "lol look at the losers in their fancy pants cars...by the way, our car is soo worth the extra money over a Camry"

I guess I wouldn't hate that commercial so much if they never made the Phaeton and if they didn't own Bentley and Lamborghini (which to me is their biggest saving grace)

[sandertheshark]

isn't that a little contradictory to VW being an "aspirational brand"? the message I always took from that ad was "lol look at the losers in their fancy pants cars...by the way, our car is soo worth the extra money over a Camry"

I guess I wouldn't hate that commercial so much if they never made the Phaeton and if they didn't own Bentley and Lamborghini (which to me is their biggest saving grace)

Their recent trend of advertising (last six years or so) is a big reason why I hate them now.  They'r not the people's car any more - they're the elitist's car.

[93JC]

isn't that a little contradictory to VW being an "aspirational brand"? the message I always took from that ad was "lol look at the losers in their fancy pants cars...by the way, our car is soo worth the extra money over a Camry"

I guess I wouldn't hate that commercial so much if they never made the Phaeton and if they didn't own Bentley and Lamborghini (which to me is their biggest saving grace)

I had an alcohol induced rant about this a while ago:

I fucking hate those commercials. Low-ego emissions my eye. Feigning a complete lack pf pretentiousness is complete and utter codswallop. It is in-and-of-itself pretentious.

If you aren't pretentious, why are you driving a VW Passat anyway? $40,000 cock-mobiles, damn it! If they're really not pretentious they'd drive a rusty, beat up rattletrap piece of shit Chevrolet Sprint three-banger and like it. Fucking wankers.

Everyone who drives a Passat is a wanker.

Especially Raza. He goes by his middle name because his given name is Wank-nozzle.

(:P)

[Vinsanity]

I had an alcohol induced rant about this a while ago:

you, sir, are my new hero

I do, however, still like the "unpimp da auto" ads; I hate ricers. I wish they would take their fanboi-ism to another brand (besides Honda). but the GTI isn't really an anti-ricer car. that would be the GTO

[SJ_GTI]

isn't that a little contradictory to VW being an "aspirational brand"? the message I always took from that ad was "lol look at the losers in their fancy pants cars...by the way, our car is soo worth the extra money over a Camry"

I guess I wouldn't hate that commercial so much if they never made the Phaeton and if they didn't own Bentley and Lamborghini (which to me is their biggest saving grace)

Why is it "contradictory" for the VW brand to be aspirational in North America?

What you "took" from the ad is obviously more based on your warped sense of reality than what the ad actualy said.

I guess you final point that everything would be okay if only they hadn't made the Phaeton makes sense though. 

Their recent trend of advertising (last six years or so) is a big reason why I hate them now.  They'r not the people's car any more - they're the elitist's car.

VW is the most popular brand in its home market. Seems consistent with the "people's car" brand name. That being said, judging a car line because the name is not a description of their market strategy is a little silly, IMHO.

Its like saying you don't like BMW because their brand symbol (a propeller) isn't representative of their products. To me, you just make yourself look ignorant. VW's are called VW's because of their brand history, just like BMW has a propeller on the hood because of its history. Call me crazy, but to me having a brand that actually means something historically is a great thing to have (as opposed to pure marketing brands like "Infiniti" or "Lexus").

As for VW's being elitist...

[BRealistic]

I don't even have an iPod.

It does match my iBook though. 

Oh- I was just being facetious. But you have to admit..... Think about it. In those cars ads they take the Japanese and domestic cars of wan-a-be urban youth and then make them take a white German car surrounded by blond white people wearing white....... Hmm. Everybody must adhere to the superior race?

Still- those are funny ads.


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And the 'low ego emission' ads... hmm. You have to admit that idea of selling a car because its image is anti-image and thus better than cars that have an image..... that is very confusing.

[sandertheshark]

Where have I seen this style of argument before...

[pommes-t]

Oh- I was just being facetious. But you have to admit..... Think about it. In those cars ads they take the Japanese and domestic cars of wan-a-be urban youth and then make them take a white German car surrounded by blond white people wearing white....... Hmm. Everybody must adhere to the superior race?

Still- those are funny ads.


-----------


And the 'low ego emission' ads... hmm. You have to admit that idea of selling a car because its image is anti-image and thus better than cars that have an image..... that is very confusing.

Yeah, Germans are racists, you know. People don't change after generations. It's like Americans who like to go out and hunt some Indians, haha, very funny...

[BRealistic]

Where have I seen this style of argument before...

You talking about my 'all white' comment?

I actually do not think that is what they meant to be saying with those ads. But it is ironic none the less.

As far as my Ipod joke- the ads are very Zoolander like. And yes- Zoolander would buy a car based on it matching his Ipod. :P

[sandertheshark]

You talking about my 'all white' comment?

Talking about SJ's style actually.

[BRealistic]

Yeah, Germans are racists, you know. People don't change after generations. It's like Americans who like to go out and hunt some Indians, haha, very funny...

Ummm, ok. It IS something that can be taken from the ads. I am not saying that is what they meant by the ad, but I noticed it and mentioned it. I am not sure why simply mentioning something like that is wrong (based on your response). Anyways- whatever. It was just a silly tangent in a VW bashing thread- a thread where I actually said I like VW and don;t understand the reason for an Anti-VW club. But (shrug), I guess that doesn't matter since I have my own opinions about VW commercials. To avoid this confusion in the future- just list the acceptable topics for this thread- and I will stay with those.......

[BRealistic]

Talking about SJ's style actually.

my bad.

[rohan]

See stuff like this I just don't understand.

VW's are boring? Well I guess that's relative. Are VW's more boring than Toyotas? Hondas? Chevies? Fords? Lexus'? Acuras? What is the basis for them to be judged?

The basis is my feelings nothing more and I said I have no real idea what the VW's are really about.  Just my opinion that they are boring look around at other cars like the Audi's they have style.  They may be more but they have style and so do the BMW's even though I like the last ones better.  Teh Lecern(sp?) has more style than it's VW counterpart by alot and the other VW's are way behind the Mustang Charger GTO Corvette most Volvo's stylewise and even a couple other  Fords like the high end Fusion is hotter.  Sorry just my opinio.

In general VW's seem to be on the more "fun" side of the spectrum IMHO. Outside of a Mazdaspeed3 or Cobalt SS I can't think of a more fun car in the GTI's class. Same with the GLI (versus say, the TSX, Accord, even Mazda6 and Ponitac G6). I guess if you compare a GTI to an S2000 the VW would be boring...?

I've driven the G6 and I'm pretty impressed with it's drop top.  I wish they'ld pu t that on the GTO but the car is pretty nice and it looks better than that one in you sig.  No offense meant I'm talking just in my own mind it looks better maybe everyone here thinks I'm wrong about that but it's how I see it.

I am also not sure what you mean with the "BMW" pretender comment. I don't know a lot of people that drive VW's (there's me, a guy I worked with in Montreal that drove a Gold TDI, and my cousin who has a Passat), but I've never met someone in a VW who thought it was comparable to a BMW. I don't think anyone on this forum claims their VW is a BMW either (other than Raza, but he's delusional). From a marketing POV VW's do lean toward being an aspirational brand (ie: you pay a premium to drive their cars...you won't find them advertising great discounts), but the most recent commercials I have seen didn't relate at all to BMW (GTI as the anti-ricer, Jetta and "safe happens" seems Volvo-ish, and Passat is almost marketed as the anti-BMW in their ego-free commercials).

You just proved my point in yuor own paragraph in alot of their commercials they are trying to beat out much better cars with "look at us we're just as good" campaigns that make them look like they are wanna-bes when they should just stick to selling their cars.

If you have never driven a VW, it might be worthwhile just stopping by a dealer and taking one or two out for a test drive. Before I drove the GTI the only VW product on my shopping list was the Audi A4.

I've never driven one but maybe I will then I can make my arguemnts froma n educated position.  Thanks for the advice.

[SJ_GTI]

Oh- I was just being facetious. But you have to admit..... Think about it. In those cars ads they take the Japanese and domestic cars of wan-a-be urban youth and then make them take a white German car surrounded by blond white people wearing white....... Hmm. Everybody must adhere to the superior race?

Still- those are funny ads.


-----------


And the 'low ego emission' ads... hmm. You have to admit that idea of selling a car because its image is anti-image and thus better than cars that have an image..... that is very confusing.

Regarding the iPod, I actually think that is funny. Mac's are certainly "trendy" and VW absolutely tries to be (though I am not sure they succeed, outside of the interweb I have never met anyone that bought a VW because they thought it was "cool"). Raza has certainly made fun of me before because I do own a VW, I do own a Mac (though not an iPod yet  :P ), and I do like to stop at Starbucks for coffee on a regular basis.