The '06 Sonata

[TBR]

Name one aspect of the Camry that is behind every other midsize sedan.

Excitement. Name one aspect that is ahead of the others.  

[ifcar]

Name one aspect of the Camry that is behind every other midsize sedan.

Excitement. Name one aspect that is ahead of the others.

How is a Camry less exciting than a Kia Optima? How is it less so than a Ford Taurus? Or a Chevy Malibu or Impala?

And answer me this: what one car beats the Camry in every way?

[TBR]

Name one aspect of the Camry that is behind every other midsize sedan.

Excitement. Name one aspect that is ahead of the others.

How is a Camry less exciting than a Kia Optima? How is it less so than a Ford Taurus? Or a Chevy Malibu or Impala?

And answer me this: what one car beats the Camry in every way?

Accord and Altima.  

[ifcar]

Name one aspect of the Camry that is behind every other midsize sedan.

Excitement. Name one aspect that is ahead of the others.

How is a Camry less exciting than a Kia Optima? How is it less so than a Ford Taurus? Or a Chevy Malibu or Impala?

And answer me this: what one car beats the Camry in every way?

Accord and Altima.

Nope. The Camry has more trunk space than the Accord and Altima, did better in crash  testing than the Altima, has more rear seat room than the Accord, has a less-firm ride than the Altima (and more midsize sedan shoppers will be going after ride softness than ride firmness), has less road noise than either the Accord or Altima, and, depending on options, is even less expensive than the Altima.

And you only answered my second question.  

[mazda6er]

Nope. The Camry has more trunk space than the Accord and Altima, did better in crash  testing than the Altima, has more rear seat room than the Accord, has a less-firm ride than the Altima (and more midsize sedan shoppers will be going after ride softness than ride firmness), has less road noise than either the Accord or Altima, and, depending on options, is even less expensive than the Altima.

And you only answered my second question.

I think the Impala may be more exciting than the Camry, but of those others you've listed, probably not. Although the Taurus is on its way out and the Malibu and Optima hardly matter in my mind. (The Optima will probably be redesigned based on the Sonata soon anyway).

I'd pit my Mazda against the Camry any day, but I may be a bit biased. The 6 beats it easily in handling, has comparable acceleration, is very safe, and has a high-quality and fairly roomy interior and trunk. The Camry ride is more refined, and it offers some "higher end" options, but it's hard to find any car that can beat every car at everything, no matter how polished it is.

[TBR]

Name one aspect of the Camry that is behind every other midsize sedan.

Excitement. Name one aspect that is ahead of the others.

How is a Camry less exciting than a Kia Optima? How is it less so than a Ford Taurus? Or a Chevy Malibu or Impala?

And answer me this: what one car beats the Camry in every way?

Accord and Altima.

Nope. The Camry has more trunk space than the Accord and Altima, did better in crash  testing than the Altima, has more rear seat room than the Accord, has a less-firm ride than the Altima (and more midsize sedan shoppers will be going after ride softness than ride firmness), has less road noise than either the Accord or Altima, and, depending on options, is even less expensive than the Altima.

And you only answered my second question.

As far as I am concerned both cars' rear seats are as comfortable as the Camry's and trunk space is close for both of them. The Altima's ride might be a bit firmer but it is still very good imho and any road noise difference isn't noticable. And, if those arguments don't float with you (and I suspect they won't), what about the Five Hundred?

I didn't answer your second question because I never said that there weren't cars as boring or even more boring than the Camry.  

[ifcar]

Name one aspect of the Camry that is behind every other midsize sedan.

Excitement. Name one aspect that is ahead of the others.

How is a Camry less exciting than a Kia Optima? How is it less so than a Ford Taurus? Or a Chevy Malibu or Impala?

And answer me this: what one car beats the Camry in every way?

Accord and Altima.

Nope. The Camry has more trunk space than the Accord and Altima, did better in crash  testing than the Altima, has more rear seat room than the Accord, has a less-firm ride than the Altima (and more midsize sedan shoppers will be going after ride softness than ride firmness), has less road noise than either the Accord or Altima, and, depending on options, is even less expensive than the Altima.

And you only answered my second question.

As far as I am concerned both cars' rear seats are as comfortable

Your concern doesn't modify fact.

as the Camry's and trunk space is close for both of them.

The Camry has 20% more trunk space than the Accord, and 7% more than the Altima.

The Altima's ride might be a bit firmer but it is still very good imho

I specifically said "better than the Camry in every way" not "about as good as the Camry".

and any road noise difference isn't noticable.

Wrong, especially on the 3.5SE.

And, if those arguments don't float with you (and I suspect they won't), what about the Five Hundred?

The Camry is quicker, quieter, and less expensive.

I didn't answer your second question because I never said that there weren't cars as boring or even more boring than the Camry.

Actually, you did. I asked you to "name one aspect of the Camry that is behind every other midsize sedan" and your reply was "excitement".

...

[ifcar]

Nope. The Camry has more trunk space than the Accord and Altima, did better in crash  testing than the Altima, has more rear seat room than the Accord, has a less-firm ride than the Altima (and more midsize sedan shoppers will be going after ride softness than ride firmness), has less road noise than either the Accord or Altima, and, depending on options, is even less expensive than the Altima.

And you only answered my second question.

I think the Impala may be more exciting than the Camry, but of those others you've listed, probably not. Although the Taurus is on its way out and the Malibu and Optima hardly matter in my mind. (The Optima will probably be redesigned based on the Sonata soon anyway).

I'd pit my Mazda against the Camry any day, but I may be a bit biased. The 6 beats it easily in handling, has comparable acceleration, is very safe, and has a high-quality and fairly roomy interior and trunk. The Camry ride is more refined, and it offers some "higher end" options, but it's hard to find any car that can beat every car at everything, no matter how polished it is.

Nope, but except for very good cars, you can usually find one car to beat one car at everything.

[TBR]

As far as I am concerned both cars' rear seats are as comfortable
Your concern doesn't modify fact.
In the past on C/D you said that space is a matter of personal opinion, my opinion is that the difference is next to non existent

as the Camry's and trunk space is close for both of them.
The Camry has 20% more trunk space than the Accord, and 7% more than the Altima.
Floor space is similiar and in my opinion that is a much more important number than cubic footage

The Altima's ride might be a bit firmer but it is still very good imho
I specifically said "better than the Camry in every way" not "about as good as the Camry".
I never said that there were cars out there that were better than the Camry in every way, I said there were cars that were as good as the Camry in every way while offering more excitement

and any road noise difference isn't noticable.
Wrong, especially on the 3.5SE.
Opinions aren't wrong

And, if those arguments don't float with you (and I suspect they won't), what about the Five Hundred?
The Camry is quicker, quieter, and less expensive.
I'll agree with quicker (but only if you get the Camry Se-V6), but I won't comment on quieter because I have no experience in a Five Hundred on the road and as far as I am concerned your Toyota bias (and you do have one) makes your comments in situations like this useless. I will look at the prices later this afternoon, but I am pretty sure that the Five Hundred is comparably priced

I didn't answer your second question because I never said that there weren't cars as boring or even more boring than the Camry.
Actually, you did. I asked you to "name one aspect of the Camry that is behind every other midsize sedan" and your reply was "excitement".
Twisting my words around, are you? I never suggested that every midsize sedan was exciting, but I did suggest that there are quite a few that are more exciting.

[ifcar]

As far as I am concerned both cars' rear seats are as comfortable
Your concern doesn't modify fact.
In the past on C/D you said that space is a matter of personal opinion, my opinion is that the difference is next to non existent
Not space, comfort.

as the Camry's and trunk space is close for both of them.
The Camry has 20% more trunk space than the Accord, and 7% more than the Altima.
Floor space is similiar and in my opinion that is a much more important number than cubic footage
Do you have actual measurements to back that up with?

The Altima's ride might be a bit firmer but it is still very good imho
I specifically said "better than the Camry in every way" not "about as good as the Camry".
I never said that there were cars out there that were better than the Camry in every way, I said there were cars that were as good as the Camry in every way while offering more excitement
My post asked "what one car beats the Camry in every way?" Your answer was "Accord and Altima". Or am I "twisting your words" again?

and any road noise difference isn't noticable.
Wrong, especially on the 3.5SE.
Opinions aren't wrong

I noticed it.

And, if those arguments don't float with you (and I suspect they won't), what about the Five Hundred?
The Camry is quicker, quieter, and less expensive.
I'll agree with quicker (but only if you get the Camry Se-V6), but I won't comment on quieter because I have no experience in a Five Hundred on the road and as far as I am concerned your Toyota bias (and you do have one) makes your comments in situations like this useless. I will look at the prices later this afternoon, but I am pretty sure that the Five Hundred is comparably priced
I believe that even the standard V6 is quicker, but there aren't many sources that have actually measured times for both. And engine noise is definitely more prevelent on the Five Hundred during acceleration than in the Camry. And don't just throw out some sticker prices either, use either CarsDirect or TMV.

I didn't answer your second question because I never said that there weren't cars as boring or even more boring than the Camry.
Actually, you did. I asked you to "name one aspect of the Camry that is behind every other midsize sedan" and your reply was "excitement".
Twisting my words around, are you? I never suggested that every midsize sedan was exciting, but I did suggest that there are quite a few that are more exciting.
I told you what was in the post that you replied to, and what your reply was. Explain how I twisted your words.

...

[TBR]

As far as I am concerned both cars' rear seats are as comfortable
Your concern doesn't modify fact.
In the past on C/D you said that space is a matter of personal opinion, my opinion is that the difference is next to non existent
Not space, comfort.
Sorry for the typo, comfort is even more subjective

as the Camry's and trunk space is close for both of them.
The Camry has 20% more trunk space than the Accord, and 7% more than the Altima.
Floor space is similiar and in my opinion that is a much more important number than cubic footage
Do you have actual measurements to back that up with?
Nope, just personal experience

The Altima's ride might be a bit firmer but it is still very good imho
I specifically said "better than the Camry in every way" not "about as good as the Camry".
I never said that there were cars out there that were better than the Camry in every way, I said there were cars that were as good as the Camry in every way while offering more excitement
My post asked "what one car beats the Camry in every way?" Your answer was "Accord and Altima". Or am I "twisting your words" again?
I admit that I didn't read that post very well, however, that question was completely out of context as I never suggested that there were cars that were better than the Camry in every way, just that there are cars out their that match in every way and add in more fun

and any road noise difference isn't noticable.
Wrong, especially on the 3.5SE.
Opinions aren't wrong
I noticed it.

And, if those arguments don't float with you (and I suspect they won't), what about the Five Hundred?
The Camry is quicker, quieter, and less expensive.
I'll agree with quicker (but only if you get the Camry Se-V6), but I won't comment on quieter because I have no experience in a Five Hundred on the road and as far as I am concerned your Toyota bias (and you do have one) makes your comments in situations like this useless. I will look at the prices later this afternoon, but I am pretty sure that the Five Hundred is comparably priced
I believe that even the standard V6 is quicker, but there aren't many sources that have actually measured times for both. And engine noise is definitely more prevelent on the Five Hundred during acceleration than in the Camry. And don't just throw out some sticker prices either, use either CarsDirect or TMV.
I will use TMV to compare the values, but not the prices

I didn't answer your second question because I never said that there weren't cars as boring or even more boring than the Camry.
Actually, you did. I asked you to "name one aspect of the Camry that is behind every other midsize sedan" and your reply was "excitement".
Twisting my words around, are you? I never suggested that every midsize sedan was exciting, but I did suggest that there are quite a few that are more exciting.
I told you what was in the post that you replied to, and what your reply was. Explain how I twisted your words.  

[ifcar]

To the trunk space: Personal experience in regards to measurements means exactly nothing. Unless you have actual floor space measurements, go by the volume measurement, in which the Altima loses and the Accord falls far short. BTW, in my personal non-measured experience, the Camry trunk has a lot more floor space than the Accord's.

To the comprehension issue: You still haven't provided an example of a car that matches the Camry in EVERY way.

To the pricing: This has become a simple matter of terminology. I'm not going to try and remember which terms I need to use to get the point across. You know what I mean. Just use Edmunds, and post both MSRP and TMV figures. It wouldn't take any longer, and would be more useful.

[TBR]

To the trunk space: Personal experience in regards to measurements means exactly nothing. Unless you have actual floor space measurements, go by the volume measurement, in which the Altima loses and the Accord falls far short. BTW, in my personal non-measured experience, the Camry trunk has a lot more floor space than the Accord's.

To the comprehension issue: You still haven't provided an example of a car that matches the Camry in EVERY way.

To the pricing: This has become a simple matter of terminology. I'm not going to try and remember which terms I need to use to get the point across. You know what I mean. Just use Edmunds, and post both MSRP and TMV figures. It wouldn't take any longer, and would be more useful.

Volume measurements mean nothing to me.

The Accord matches the Camry in comfort, price, performance, and styling

MSRP is a cars price, TMV is a cars value. If you want to determine whether or not a car is overpriced you have to compare that car's msrp with its competitors or use the msrp in conjunction with the TMV. If you want to determine if a car is overvalued you compare its TMV with those of its competitors. Quite simple really, TMV stands for True Market Value while MSRP stands for Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price

[ifcar]

To the trunk space: Personal experience in regards to measurements means exactly nothing. Unless you have actual floor space measurements, go by the volume measurement, in which the Altima loses and the Accord falls far short. BTW, in my personal non-measured experience, the Camry trunk has a lot more floor space than the Accord's.

To the comprehension issue: You still haven't provided an example of a car that matches the Camry in EVERY way.

To the pricing: This has become a simple matter of terminology. I'm not going to try and remember which terms I need to use to get the point across. You know what I mean. Just use Edmunds, and post both MSRP and TMV figures. It wouldn't take any longer, and would be more useful.

Volume measurements mean nothing to me.
Non-existent measurements mean nothing to me.

The Accord matches the Camry in comfort, price, performance, and styling
It matches it in general areas, but falls short in several specific ones, which I pointed out earlier.

MSRP is a cars price, TMV is a cars value. If you want to determine whether or not a car is overpriced you have to compare that car's msrp with its competitors or use the msrp in conjunction with the TMV. If you want to determine if a car is overvalued you compare its TMV with those of its competitors. Quite simple really, TMV stands for True Market Value while MSRP stands for Manufacturer's Suggested Retail Price
Only one matters to me, it would be the amount of money given to own the car. That's what's important, not the number on the window sticker.

...

[TBR]

It matches it in general areas, but falls short in several specific ones, which I pointed out earlier.

Trunk volume is the only one I can recall you mentioning.  

[ifcar]

It matches it in general areas, but falls short in several specific ones, which I pointed out earlier.

Trunk volume is the only one I can recall you mentioning.

I mentioned others, but you discounted them by saying that you didn't think there was a significant difference. I still stand by them.

[TBR]

It matches it in general areas, but falls short in several specific ones, which I pointed out earlier.

Trunk volume is the only one I can recall you mentioning.

I mentioned others, but you discounted them by saying that you didn't think there was a significant difference. I still stand by them.

Ah, I see, road noise and rear seat room where the other two. In my experience with the two cars (top trim levels in both cases and just about as back to back as I have ever ridden in two competing cars) the differences are neligible in both categories.  

[ifcar]

If you're talking about back seat comfort, that may very well be. If you're talking about actual space, you'd be wrong according to the dimensions provided by the manufacturers. link

The Camry beats it in every way, except for a tenth of an inch in headroom.

[TBR]

If you're talking about back seat comfort, that may very well be. If you're talking about actual space, you'd be wrong according to the dimensions provided by the manufacturers. link

The Camry beats it in every way, except for a tenth of an inch in headroom.

Space doesn't matter as long as you are comfortable.  

[ifcar]

While I agree that a well-shaped seat is better than a roomy, misshapen seat, larger folks need both to be comfortable.

[TBR]

While I agree that a well-shaped seat is better than a roomy, misshapen seat, larger folks need both to be comfortable.

Fine, I will give you that one. If you constantly haul around more than one six foot tall person then the Camry is a better choice than the Accord.