2008 Ford Focus

[93JC]

Well, to be fair the Cobalt and G5 sedans look a little strange behind the B-pillar... But the coupes are great, and Mazda makes nothing like 'em.

[MX793]

Well, now that I think about it most of them are pretty damned ugly. Civic, Corolla... Caliber isn't too bad though... and I think I like the Cobalt and G5.

The Caliber isn't bad because it is styled more like an SUV than a car.  The ones that try to retain the looks of a car generally aren't too pretty these days. 

As far as Focus vs 3, I'm sorry but I have trouble finding this


to be prettier than this

[Onslaught]

Well, to be fair the Cobalt and G5 sedans look a little strange behind the B-pillar... But the coupes are great, and Mazda makes nothing like 'em.

Well I am mad that Mazda hasn't made a 3 or 6 coupe. Because I kind of work for Mazda young people I know always ask me why they don't make them in coupe form. All I can say is "fuck if I know?"

[TheIntrepid]

Ifcar no offense but I think you're a little too critical. The Caliber is a bad car, in your opinion, not overall. It's a plenty decent car. The current Focus ZX3 is not that great a car either...at least the Caliber's better than that.

[ifcar]

Ifcar no offense but I think you're a little too critical. The Caliber is a bad car, in your opinion, not overall. It's a plenty decent car. The current Focus ZX3 is not that great a car either...at least the Caliber's better than that.

In what way, besides having four-door practicality? What does the Caliber do that everything else doesn't?

[TheIntrepid]

In what way, besides having four-door practicality? What does the Caliber do that everything else doesn't?

The flip down music system, the cooled glove box, etcetera. The little things seem to add up. It's not necessarily a better car than all the others, but it's certainly not crap.

[Raghavan]

The music system and glove box are gimmicks.

[TheIntrepid]

Sure they are... but it does have them and the competition doesn't.

[ifcar]

The flip down music system, the cooled glove box, etcetera. The little things seem to add up. It's not necessarily a better car than all the others, but it's certainly not crap.

A cooled glovebox does not make an overweight space-inefficient car with mediocre-at-best ride, handling, acceleration, and fuel economy and indifferent fuel economy any more than crap with a cooled glovebox.

[MX793]

The flip down music system, the cooled glove box, etcetera. The little things seem to add up. It's not necessarily a better car than all the others, but it's certainly not crap.

I haven't driven the Caliber, so I don't really know of its virtues or vices, but neat little gimmicks are not a substitute for poor fundamentals (i.e. relatively poor ride, handling, NVH, performance, fuel economy, build quality, etc...).

[TheIntrepid]

A cooled glovebox does not make an overweight space-inefficient car with mediocre-at-best ride, handling, acceleration, and fuel economy and indifferent fuel economy any more than crap with a cooled glovebox.

I got pwned.

[Onslaught]

I got pwned.

I don't know. How cold will it keep your beer?

[280Z Turbo]

The Caliber isn't bad because it is styled more like an SUV than a car. The ones that try to retain the looks of a car generally aren't too pretty these days.

As far as Focus vs 3, I'm sorry but I have trouble finding this


to be prettier than this

Nope. I don't think the Focus was designed to ever be a sedan. You can tell it's an afterthought.

But...this:



is nicer looking than this:



Did they even sell the sedan in Europe? Sedans are an American thing. People like to keep their cargo seperate from their passengers I guess.

[93JC]

The Caliber isn't bad because it is styled more like an SUV than a car.? The ones that try to retain the looks of a car generally aren't too pretty these days.?

It looks like a car to me. Proportions are a little too similar to the 3, actually...

As far as Focus vs 3, I'm sorry but I have trouble finding this


to be prettier than this

As conservative as it is, I like this



more than this



And this



looks better than either.

[ifcar]

Caliber proportions are not Mazda3 hatch. It's longer and lower. The Caliber is stumpier, like a Matrix/Vibe or ZX5.

[93JC]

You don't think this:



is 'stumpy'?

[ifcar]

It isn't tall enough to be stumpy IMO, or maybe it's the lower beltline that gives me a different impression.


vs.

[Onslaught]

You don't think this:



is 'stumpy'?

No

[Raza]

I really like the Mazda3 5 door.  Better than the sedan.

[etypeJohn]

I guess its a matter of taste.  To me the Caliber looks a little confused.  Trucklike in front of the windscreen, with a middle that doesn't know if it wants to be a four door sedan, station wagon or hatchback.  Also the compressed greenhouse looks out of proportion to the body below the beltline.  I like the wheels though.

[USA_Idol]

It isn't tall enough to be stumpy IMO, or maybe it's the lower beltline that gives me a different impression.


vs.

This should come standard with every Caliber:


Because that's what the car's styling reminds me of. 

[ChrisV]

I haven't driven the Caliber, so I don't really know of its virtues or vices, but neat little gimmicks are not a substitute for poor fundamentals (i.e. relatively poor ride, handling, NVH, performance, fuel economy, build quality, etc...).

they are to the average person who really can't tell the difference in ride, and are blissfully unaware of what are minor differences in NVH, especially if they are getting out of an older car that is vastly worse in those areas. And even teh best older economy cars are worse then the worst NEW one. So buyers will say, "hmm. This new car is so much better than my old car, like all new cars are, but it's got more cool features and a great warranty and a decent price. I think I'll buy it."

Pure and simple. They aren't auto reviewers, they aren't princesses that feel a pea under 10 mattresses, they are simply buyers that find any new car more than adequate to get them around in, so use different criteria than you or I do.

[ChrisV]

I really like the Mazda3 5 door.  Better than the sedan.

Agreed. I also like it better than the Focus and Caliber, though I'd drive any of them.

[TheIntrepid]

Agreed. I also like it better than the Focus and Caliber, though I'd drive any of them.

I have a thing against econoboxes. If I had ~15k to spend I'd buy a W140 or E39.

[Raghavan]

they are to the average person who really can't tell the difference in ride, and are blissfully unaware of what are minor differences in NVH, especially if they are getting out of an older car that is vastly worse in those areas. And even teh best older economy cars are worse then the worst NEW one. So buyers will say, "hmm. This new car is so much better than my old car, like all new cars are, but it's got more cool features and a great warranty and a decent price. I think I'll buy it."

Pure and simple. They aren't auto reviewers, they aren't princesses that feel a pea under 10 mattresses, they are simply buyers that find any new car more than adequate to get them around in, so use different criteria than you or I do.

C'mon, m0st people I know will research about a particular car before they'll buy.... If their research shows the car is crap compared to what they COULD buy instead, they'll start wondering if the extra gimmicks are worth it.
By your logic, the Big 3 should've never gone the shitter because they always had new models that were better than older cars, no matter how shitty they were, so people should've kept buying them, right?

[ChrisV]

I have a thing against econoboxes. If I had ~15k to spend I'd buy a W140 or E39.

Hell, look at what I did. But sometimes a new econobox with a warranty makes sense. And sometimes it's simply what the buyer wants.

[ChrisV]

C'mon, m0st people I know will research about a particular car before they'll buy.... If their research shows the car is crap compared to what they COULD buy instead, they'll start wondering if the extra gimmicks are worth it.

Then explain the sales of low end cars like Cobalts, Focus, Kias, etc. Most people don't do THAT much research, and most couldn't tell you very much about the car they DID buy. Serious. it was 4189 a month and they got some cool features and a warranty.

By your logic, the Big 3 should've never gone the shitter because they always had new models that were better than older cars, no matter how shitty they were, so people should've kept buying them, right?

By YOUR logic, no one woudl buy a Cobalt or Focus, or Kia, or any other low end car, because everyone does all this research and ONLY buys the VERY BEST CAR on the market. Yet they still do in large numbers.

I work in a government operation of 65,000 employees, and the vast majority of them know absulutely squat about cars. I listen to them talk about them occasionally and I KNOW that only a couple have ever done research. Most of the people that KNOW cars here buy USED ones, classics, and sports cars. The average economy car buyer can barely name the parts of their own car. It's a pretty big sampling of people to draw from, and I constantly am amazed by the lack of knowledge of what usually amounts to the second largest purchase anyone makes other than housing.

[TheIntrepid]

Hell, look at what I did. But sometimes a new econobox with a warranty makes sense. And sometimes it's simply what the buyer wants.

I almost a ~1993 Mercedes 300SD W140 when I bought my '99 Camry, but my uncle suggested against the idea because I'd have paid out the ass for electricals. If I did buy it I'd still be driving it because I wouldn't have gotten as bored of it as I did of the Camry.

[Raza]

Agreed. I also like it better than the Focus and Caliber, though I'd drive any of them.

I'd probably drive a Caliber if I needed something very practical.  The Focus seems much better to drive.

[Raza]

I have a thing against econoboxes. If I had ~15k to spend I'd buy a W140 or E39.

I too would probably buy a used car with 15 grand to spend (that's what I'm researching right now, actually), but you do understand the purpose economy cars fill, right?