Roadracing Mustangs

[Nethead]

r0tor:? Today, the Nethead here got to use a better browser and thus could display the Grand American Cup rules & regs.? The listing of certified vehicle models included Porsche 996s, Porsche 997s, and Porsche Targas.? Since the listing shows that certain adjustable parts from GT3s are allowed on these three models, it stands to reason that the GT3 is not certified for competition in the Grand American Cup series (although nowhere did I find it stated that the GT3 is verboten).? Presumably, Porsche could certify a GT3 for the Grand American Cup (as I have said upstream in this thread), but the stipulations that would be placed on the equipment--lead plate weights, punitive gear ratios, intake restrictor plates, exhaust limitations, yada yada yada like the FR500C must accept to be allowed to compete--probably means no one is interested in the hassle when 996s/997s/Targas can use certain GT3 adjustable suspension parts anyway.

Maybe some mag will do a comparo of an FR500C and a 997 GT3 or a 997 GT3 RS, and hopefully the comparo will specifiy identical tires (with allowances for wheel size differences) else certain forum participants will howl that whatever vehicle that lapped whatever track the fastest managed to do so only because of the superior tires of the faster vehicle.? You know the type...
Anyway, the FR500C uses Hoosiers because all Grand American Cup competitors are required to use the Series sponsor's tires.? They're fine tires--but not real sticky so they can last the length of the races on well-set-up cars.? If this proposed comparo takes place, the tires should be those on the Porsche 997 GT3 in appropriate sizes since the FR500C would come with different tires if the Series were to change tire sponsors.

I am going to add to this posting:  Apparently, The Porsche GT3 is not certified for competition in the Grand American Cup roadracing series.  Presumably, someone could request that it be certified--but approval by the officials would probably result in punitive restrictions, as currently applies to several competing models. Equally apparent is that Porsche is not interested in pursuing GT3 certification in the GS class of the Grand American Cup.  The result of this is that I was incorrect when I stated that one other make is now offering GS class spec vehicles to any and all competitors--it's still only the Ford Mustang FR500C.  No other make offers a GS class spec vehicle, and that includes Porsche...

[Nethead]

MX793:?
"5 outright winners at Le Mans with Ford V8s?? I know GT40s account for 4 ('66-'69), but what was the 5th?"

It was a model of Mirage, but not the Mirages developed from the '66 street Ford GTs that won LeMans outright in '68 and '69.? The LeMans win in question occurred around 1975, and this vehicle won that year's LeMans outright powered by a 3.0 liter Formula 1 Ford engine.? Once upon a time, I knew what model of Mirage it was, but I don't any more.

MX793:? Pardon me, MXDude, for I have erred--I said that Ford engines have won outright victories at the LeMans 24-hour five times!? How could I be so wrong!? Read this from Wikipedia that I stumbled upon a coupla minutes ago:

"The DFV's success was by no means limited to Formula 1, with the engine being used in sportscar racing with some modest success. The design of the crankshaft caused vibrations that caused reliability problems in endurance racing. Seven years after it was introduced, the engine won the Le Mans 24 Hours twice, first in the Gulf-sponsored Mirage driven by Jacky Ickx and Derek Bell in 1975, then with the surprise winners Rondeau in 1980, driven by Jean Rondeau and Jean-Pierre Jaussaud."

So it's six outright wins at LeMans instead of the five I erroneously posted earlier.? Pardonez moi!

Other DFV achievements:

DFV normally-aspirated 3.0 litre 90 degree V8

F1 Drivers' Champions (12):
1968 Graham Hill (Team Lotus),
1969 Jackie Stewart (Matra),
1970 Jochen Rindt (Team Lotus),
1971 Jackie Stewart (Tyrrell),
1972 Emerson Fittipaldi (Team Lotus),
1973 Jackie Stewart (Tyrrell),
1974 Emerson Fittipaldi (McLaren),
1976 James Hunt (McLaren),
1978 Mario Andretti (Team Lotus),
1980 Alan Jones (Williams),
1981 Nelson Piquet (Brabham),
1982 Keke Rosberg (Williams)

F1 Constructors' Champions (10):
1968 Lotus,
1969 Matra,
1970 Lotus,
1971 Tyrrell,
1972 Lotus,
1973 Lotus,
1974 McLaren,
1978 Lotus,
1980 Williams,
1981 Williams

Le Mans 24 Hours winners (2):
1975 Jacky Ickx/Derek Bell (Mirage),
1980 Jean Rondeau/Jean-Pierre Jaussaud (Rondeau)

Formula 3000 Champions (6):
1985 Christian Danner (March Engineering)
1986 Ivan Capelli (March Engineering)
1987 Stefano Modena (March Engineering)
1988 Roberto Moreno (Reynard)
1989 Jean Alesi (Reynard)
1992 Luca Badoer (Reynard)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DFX turbocharged 2.4 litre 90 degree V8

Indy 500 winners (10):
1978 Al Unser Sr (Lola),
1979 Rick Mears (Penske),
1980 Johnny Rutherford (Chaparral),
1981 Bobby Unser (Penske),
1982 Gordon Johncock (Wildcat),
1983 Tom Sneva (March),
1984 Rick Mears (March),
1985 Danny Sullivan (March),
1986 Bobby Rahal (March),
1987 Al Unser Sr (March)

USAC Champions (3):
1977 Tom Sneva (McLaren/Penske),
1978 Tom Sneva (Penske),
1979 A. J. Foyt, Jr. (Parnelli*)

CART Champions (9):
1979 Rick Mears (Penske),
1980 Johnny Rutherford (Chaparral),
1981 Rick Mears (Penske),
1982 Rick Mears (Penske),
1983 Al Unser Sr (Penske),
1984 Mario Andretti (Lola),
1985 Al Unser Sr (March),
1986 Bobby Rahal (March),
1987 Bobby Rahal (Lola)

Ford doesn't need to spend much on a new "Hurricane" or a new "Boss" V8 engine.
All they need to do is scale this baby up to 7 liters and to 10 liters and change
nothing.? A world-beater at Goodwill Industries prices...

MX793:? Half-points for being half-right:
"The Mirage was using a Cosworth designed and built motor.? Ford's name was on the motor because Ford was backing Cosworth to develop the motor."
Cosworth built the Ford 3.0 liter DFV V8--but Cosworth did not design it.? It would be correct to say that they engineered it.? Waaaayy back in the mid-'Sixties, Ford's Cortina I4 engine (around 1.5--1.6 liters) was the killer engine in Formula 2.? Colin Chapman saw how close in performance the Formula 2 racecars with this engine were to the Formula 1 racecars of the day using the 3.0 liter engines then available.? Chapman asked Ford to mate two of these I4s into an eight-cylinder 3.0 liter engine for Formula 1.? Ford liked the idea, and gave Costin & Duckworth (already hugely successful with Ford engines) 100,000 pounds Sterling to mate two of these Cortina I4s into a single eight-cylinder engine.? I have avoided saying "V8" since I don't know if Ford of the UK specifically wanted a "V" configuration or if they left that up to Costin & Duckworth.? I presume they asked for a V8, but I don't know for sure...Soooo, the engines were already designed, Costin & Duckworth were contracted to join them at the crankshaft--no small engineering effort, and a credit to Cosworth for the beautiful job that they did.? In fact, the "DFV" in "Cosworth-Ford DFV 3.0 V8" stands for "Double Four Valve", meaning the union of two of the totally dominating Ford Cortina I4s into one engine.? The Nethead here thinks "DFC" for "Double Four Cylinder" woulda been more appropriate, but I ain't British and they go their own way (and on the other side of the road at that)...

[Nethead]

Addendum:? The six Ford-powered vehicles that have scored outright overall victories in the LeMans 24-Hours were a Ford GT Mark II, a Ford GT Mark IV, a Mirage/Ford GT-40, a repeat victory by the same Mirage/Ford GT-40, a Mirage GR8 Ford (1975), and a Rondeau 379B Ford (1980).

The Ford GT Mark IV that won the LeMans overall in 1967 won by such a distance that only three winners have bested that distance in the 39 races held since 1967--a Porsche 917K in 1971, a Jaguar XJR9 in 1988, and a Mercedes C9 in 1989.

[Nethead]

Mustangs Top Homestead, Take 5 of Top 10, 10 of top 20

The Sunday afternoon Miami 400K Koni Challenge race saw Tom Nastasi and Ian James take home the top honors in a race that was hotly contested by the Turner Motorsports' BMW M3's, as always.
Jim and Bret Seafuse and James Gue in the JBS Motorsports #37 Mustang GT took fourth place, while Partick Dempsey and Charles Espenlaub piloting the Hyper Sport #156 Mustang GT finished in sixth place.

Ninth place fell to Jack Roush Jr. and Dean Martin in the Rehagen Racing #59 Mustang GT, who ran as high as fourth during the race. Joe Foster and Scott Maxwell with the Hyper Sport #55 Mustang GT rounded out the top ten spots.

The Skelton/Kapudija combination, with their Hyper Sport #54 Mustang GT ended up in 12th, while pole sitter Valerie Limoges and James Nastasi finished 13th in the Blackforest Motorsports #4 Mustang GT. Limoges, the first woman to ever qualify in a Grand-Am event pole position, led most of the first 40 laps of the race.

Just before 2:00 p.m. a light rain started. As the rain increased in level, cars began pitting for tire changes. With five laps to go, James passed Gue (#37) in the NASCAR turns to take the lead.

A yellow flag in lap 85 essentially froze the race positions, leaving James (left, above) to take the white flag under caution next time around.

Tom Nastasi won the previous Koni Challenge race in Daytona, with David Empringham co-driving.

[MX793]

MX793:  Pardon me, MXDude, for I have erred--I said that Ford engines have won outright victories at the LeMans 24-hour five times!  How could I be so wrong!  Read this from Wikipedia that I stumbled upon a coupla minutes ago:

"The DFV's success was by no means limited to Formula 1, with the engine being used in sportscar racing with some modest success. The design of the crankshaft caused vibrations that caused reliability problems in endurance racing. Seven years after it was introduced, the engine won the Le Mans 24 Hours twice, first in the Gulf-sponsored Mirage driven by Jacky Ickx and Derek Bell in 1975, then with the surprise winners Rondeau in 1980, driven by Jean Rondeau and Jean-Pierre Jaussaud."

So it's six outright wins at LeMans instead of the five I erroneously posted earlier.  Pardonez moi!

Other DFV achievements:

DFV normally-aspirated 3.0 litre 90 degree V8

F1 Drivers' Champions (12):
1968 Graham Hill (Team Lotus),
1969 Jackie Stewart (Matra),
1970 Jochen Rindt (Team Lotus),
1971 Jackie Stewart (Tyrrell),
1972 Emerson Fittipaldi (Team Lotus),
1973 Jackie Stewart (Tyrrell),
1974 Emerson Fittipaldi (McLaren),
1976 James Hunt (McLaren),
1978 Mario Andretti (Team Lotus),
1980 Alan Jones (Williams),
1981 Nelson Piquet (Brabham),
1982 Keke Rosberg (Williams)

F1 Constructors' Champions (10):
1968 Lotus,
1969 Matra,
1970 Lotus,
1971 Tyrrell,
1972 Lotus,
1973 Lotus,
1974 McLaren,
1978 Lotus,
1980 Williams,
1981 Williams

Le Mans 24 Hours winners (2):
1975 Jacky Ickx/Derek Bell (Mirage),
1980 Jean Rondeau/Jean-Pierre Jaussaud (Rondeau)

Formula 3000 Champions (6):
1985 Christian Danner (March Engineering)
1986 Ivan Capelli (March Engineering)
1987 Stefano Modena (March Engineering)
1988 Roberto Moreno (Reynard)
1989 Jean Alesi (Reynard)
1992 Luca Badoer (Reynard)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

DFX turbocharged 2.4 litre 90 degree V8

Indy 500 winners (10):
1978 Al Unser Sr (Lola),
1979 Rick Mears (Penske),
1980 Johnny Rutherford (Chaparral),
1981 Bobby Unser (Penske),
1982 Gordon Johncock (Wildcat),
1983 Tom Sneva (March),
1984 Rick Mears (March),
1985 Danny Sullivan (March),
1986 Bobby Rahal (March),
1987 Al Unser Sr (March)

USAC Champions (3):
1977 Tom Sneva (McLaren/Penske),
1978 Tom Sneva (Penske),
1979 A. J. Foyt, Jr. (Parnelli*)

CART Champions (9):
1979 Rick Mears (Penske),
1980 Johnny Rutherford (Chaparral),
1981 Rick Mears (Penske),
1982 Rick Mears (Penske),
1983 Al Unser Sr (Penske),
1984 Mario Andretti (Lola),
1985 Al Unser Sr (March),
1986 Bobby Rahal (March),
1987 Bobby Rahal (Lola)

Ford doesn't need to spend much on a new "Hurricane" or a new "Boss" V8 engine.
All they need to do is scale this baby up to 7 liters and to 10 liters and change
nothing.  A world-beater at Goodwill Industries prices...

MX793:  Half-points for being half-right:
"The Mirage was using a Cosworth designed and built motor.  Ford's name was on the motor because Ford was backing Cosworth to develop the motor."
Cosworth built the Ford 3.0 liter DFV V8--but Cosworth did not design it.  It would be correct to say that they engineered it.  Waaaayy back in the mid-'Sixties, Ford's Cortina I4 engine (around 1.5--1.6 liters) was the killer engine in Formula 2.  Colin Chapman saw how close in performance the Formula 2 racecars with this engine were to the Formula 1 racecars of the day using the 3.0 liter engines then available.  Chapman asked Ford to mate two of these I4s into an eight-cylinder 3.0 liter engine for Formula 1.  Ford liked the idea, and gave Costin & Duckworth (already hugely successful with Ford engines) 100,000 pounds Sterling to mate two of these Cortina I4s into a single eight-cylinder engine.  I have avoided saying "V8" since I don't know if Ford of the UK specifically wanted a "V" configuration or if they left that up to Costin & Duckworth.  I presume they asked for a V8, but I don't know for sure...Soooo, the engines were already designed, Costin & Duckworth were contracted to join them at the crankshaft--no small engineering effort, and a credit to Cosworth for the beautiful job that they did.  In fact, the "DFV" in "Cosworth-Ford DFV 3.0 V8" stands for "Double Four Valve", meaning the union of two of the totally dominating Ford Cortina I4s into one engine.  The Nethead here thinks "DFC" for "Double Four Cylinder" woulda been more appropriate, but I ain't British and they go their own way (and on the other side of the road at that)...

Being loosely based on a Ford engine doesn't make it a Ford engine.  Ford did not build or engineer the 3.0L V8, they made the 4 cylinder that the V8 is loosely based on.  That motor is as much a Ford engine as that V8 that somebody made by splicing a pair of Suzuki I4s together is a Suzuki motor.

[Nethead]

Being loosely based on a Ford engine doesn't make it a Ford engine.? Ford did not build or engineer the 3.0L V8, they made the 4 cylinder that the V8 is loosely based on.? That motor is as much a Ford engine as that V8 that somebody made by splicing a pair of Suzuki I4s together is a Suzuki motor.

Well, if it wasn't Ford of the UK that contracted Cosworth to engineer the mating of two of Ford's very successful Formula 2 four-cylinder engines, who DID contract Cosworth to do it???? BRM?? Ferrari?? Harley-Davidson?? Massey-Ferguson?

It was Colin Chapman's idea to mate those two Formula 2 four-cylinders, and he convinced Ford of the value of the idea--and even agreed to campaign the engines in Formula 1.? The Nethead here wasn't there to read the contract Ford negotiated with Costin & Duckworth, but Ford funded the development (and may have furnished any parts from the Formula 2 four-cylinder engines that would also be used in the DFV 3.0 V8).? Costin & Duckworth then proceeded to brilliantly fulfill the terms of the contract with Ford of the UK--whatever they may have been.? In the business world, the resulting engine was Ford's.? ?The Nethead here will hazard a raw guess that Ford contracted out the engineering of the DFV 3.0 V8 because it had no pragmatic application in the product line of vehicles Ford of the UK was manufacturing at the time.? Has Ford of the UK EVER offered a V8 in ANY of their street vehicles???? The Nethead here does not know the names of all the vehicles sold today by Ford of the UK, much less the names of all the vehicles sold in 1968 by Ford of the UK.? I'll guess that the Cortina was one, and possibly the Prefect (which might have been introduced well after 1968 for all I know).? But I'll bet even the kinkiest dude on their payroll wasn't hoping to convince their top management to offer the DFV 3.0 V8 in any 1968 Ford of the UK product!

Please reveal to us just one source from back in the day that disputed whether the engine was Ford's or someone else's...

I mean, Ford builds all the Aston Martin V12s somewhere in Michigan, but they are Aston Martin powerplants per the contract.? Now that Aston Martin has been sold, maybe you'll soon see those V12s in Expeditions, F150s, and Mustangs.

Addendum:  MXDude, open a "Who's the Father of the DFV 3.0 V8" thread.  Soon, you'll have us believing the engine has more fathers than DannieLynn.  This is a Mustang thread, and as such is just not the place to discuss the DFV 3.0 V8.  Thanks.

[Nethead]

Mustangs Top Homestead, Take 5 of Top 10, 10 of top 20

The Sunday afternoon Miami 400K Koni Challenge race saw Tom Nastasi and Ian James take home the top honors in a race that was hotly contested by the Turner Motorsports' BMW M3's, as always.
Jim and Bret Seafuse and James Gue in the JBS Motorsports #37 Mustang GT took fourth place, while Partick Dempsey and Charles Espenlaub piloting the Hyper Sport #156 Mustang GT finished in sixth place.

Ninth place fell to Jack Roush Jr. and Dean Martin in the Rehagen Racing #59 Mustang GT, who ran as high as fourth during the race. Joe Foster and Scott Maxwell with the Hyper Sport #55 Mustang GT rounded out the top ten spots.

The Skelton/Kapudija combination, with their Hyper Sport #54 Mustang GT ended up in 12th, while pole sitter Valerie Limoges and James Nastasi finished 13th in the Blackforest Motorsports #4 Mustang GT. Limoges, the first woman to ever qualify in a Grand-Am event pole position, led most of the first 40 laps of the race.

Just before 2:00 p.m. a light rain started. As the rain increased in level, cars began pitting for tire changes. With five laps to go, James passed Gue (#37) in the NASCAR turns to take the lead.

A yellow flag in lap 85 essentially froze the race positions, leaving James (left, above) to take the white flag under caution next time around.

Tom Nastasi won the previous Koni Challenge race in Daytona, with David Empringham co-driving.

[S204STi]

I just read through this thread, and I think I would rather put both barrels of a 12guage in my mouth and squeeze.

"The Mustang kicks Porsche/BMW et al's ass!"
"Yeah, but the Mustang isn't a Mustang at all but a tube-chassis race car with a non-production engine."
...
"But it runs a restrictor plate!"
"Yeah, but the Porsches you are so proud to beat are running their smallest available engine, on a factory chassis."
...
"Ok, next subject!  Ford won five times at LeMans!"
"No, Ford won four times, and a car running a Cosworth motor comissioned by Ford won the 'fifth'."
...
"But it is kinda similar to a Ford engine!"
"Yeah, like two Suzuki motorcycle engines slapped together are similar to the LS1."

Wow...

[Raghavan]

I just read through this thread, and I think I would rather put both barrels of a 12guage in my mouth and squeeze.

"The Mustang kicks Porsche/BMW et al's ass!"
"Yeah, but the Mustang isn't a Mustang at all but a tube-chassis race car with a non-production engine."
...
"But it runs a restrictor plate!"
"Yeah, but the Porsches you are so proud to beat are running their smallest available engine, on a factory chassis."
...
"Ok, next subject! Ford won five times at LeMans!"
"No, Ford won four times, and a car running a Cosworth motor comissioned by Ford won the 'fifth'."
...
"But it is kinda similar to a Ford engine!"
"Yeah, like two Suzuki motorcycle engines slapped together are similar to the LS1."

Wow...

I call dibs on Roy's WRX!

[S204STi]

I call dibs on Roy's WRX!

......huh?

Oh, lol...

[Raghavan]

What are you still doing here?! Go and shoot yourself in the mouth! I want your car!

[S204STi]

What are you still doing here?! Go and shoot yourself in the mouth! I want your car!

"Hyperbole: n. extreme overstatement with the purpose of shock or humor."

[Raghavan]

Damn, there goes my WRX.

[Nethead]

I just read through this thread, and I think I would rather put both barrels of a 12guage in my mouth and squeeze.

"The Mustang kicks Porsche/BMW et al's ass!"
"Yeah, but the Mustang isn't a Mustang at all but a tube-chassis race car with a non-production engine."
...
"But it runs a restrictor plate!"
"Yeah, but the Porsches you are so proud to beat are running their smallest available engine, on a factory chassis."
...
"Ok, next subject!? Ford won five times at LeMans!"
"No, Ford won four times, and a car running a Cosworth motor comissioned by Ford won the 'fifth'."
...
"But it is kinda similar to a Ford engine!"
"Yeah, like two Suzuki motorcycle engines slapped together are similar to the LS1."

Wow...

R-inge:  RingDude,  you're mixing classes of vehicles here. 

There is indeed one tube-chassis looks-like-a-Mustang-FR500GT-from-quite-a-long-ways-off Mustang in existence.  It was hand-built by Crawford Composites somewhere in North Carolina.  It was made to compete in the GT class of the Rolex Series of the Grand American Road Racing Association, where all the cars in that class have tube frames except--possibly--the Porsche GT3s (I'm not sure of this, so check it out if you're interested).  Tube-chassis Mazda RX8s have dominated the 2007 season so far.

The FR500Cs we're talking about here compete in the GS class, which requires stock frames (additional seam welding, roadracing rollcages, and interior-stripping are allowed).  No one gets to run tube frames in the GS class.

The mid-engined DP (Daytona Prototype) cars and the GT cars race together in races currently called "The Rolex (Something)", with winners in both classes. 

The GS cars and the ST cars race together in races that are run separately from the Rolex races, and these races are currently called "The Koni Challenge", with winners in both classes.

There is also a 525 HP naturally-aspirated Mustang FR500GT (basically a FR500C with none of the many restrictions the GS rules place upon the 5.0 'Cammer in the FR500C) but it is not legal in US racing.  It is currently being homologated for racing in Europe's "GT3" series of races.

[SVT666]

There is also a 525 HP 550 hp naturally-aspirated Mustang FR500GT (basically a FR500C with none of the many restrictions the GS rules place upon the 5.0 'Cammer in the FR500C) but it is not legal in US racing, but a new racing series is being developed for it in the US and the new Camaro and Challenger will be able to compete as well.? It is currently being homologated for racing in Europe's "GT3" series of races.

There.  Fixed.

[r0tor]

Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez
Mexico City
Rolex Series
Rolex Race: March 3, 2007 3:15 PM

GT Series

1? Tremblay/ Ham/ Haskell? SpeedSource / Mazda RX-8? 92? 1:29.704? 51? 97? Mazda/ Mazdaspeed?
2? Farnbacher/ Keen? Farnbacher Loles Motorsports / Porsche GT3 Cup? 91? 1:29.956? 3? 97? Shoes for Crews/ Recaro?
3  Assentato/ Longhi  SpeedSource / Mazda RX-8  91  1:30.062  48  97  FXDD  
4? Miller/ Werner? Farnbacher Loles Motorsports / Porsche GT3 Cup? 91? 1:29.695? 3? 96? MarquisJet/ Recaro?
5? Swartzbaugh/ Davis? Tafel Racing / Porsche GT3 Cup? 91? 1:30.312? 53? 96? North South Machinery/ ANCA/ Dunkel Bros/ Tornos?
6? Wilkins/ Lacey? Doncaster Racing / Porsche GT3 Cup? 91? 1:30.331? 51? 96? Minestar Solutions/ Tim Hortons?
7? Lux/ Henzler? Tafel Racing / Porsche GT3 Cup? 91? 1:29.631? 49? 96? Rembrandt Charms?
8? Lally/ Valentine? TRG / Porsche GT3 Cup? 90? 1:30.463? 47? 96? CRG/ Maxter/ Rotax/ MBA/ NFP/ F1Air?
9? Cicero/ Bunting? Stevenson Motorsports / Corvette? 90? 1:30.316? 45? 95? Stevenson Automotive?
10? Edwards/ Collins? Banner Racing / Pontiac GXP.R? 90? 1:29.531? 55? 95? Banner Engineering?
11? Pumpelly/ Schroeder? TRG / Porsche GT3 Cup? 90? 1:29.917? 67? 95? Cohen Financial?
12? de Quesada/ Dumoulin? Alegra Motorsports / Porsche GT3 Cup? 89? 1:31.536? 38? 95? Gatorade/ TodayMD.com?
13? Nastasi/ Tagliani? Blackforest Motorsports / Mustang Cobra GT? 89? 1:29.381? 74? 95? USG Sheetrock/ Guardian Insulation

sucks to drive a Mustang i guess?

[r0tor]

But Wait... there's more

Homestead-Miami Speedway
Homestead, Florida
Rolex Series
Rolex Race: March 24, 2007 2:00 PM

GT Results


1  Tremblay/ Ham  SpeedSource / Mazda RX-8  90  1:21.157  81  82  Mazda/ Mazdaspeed 
2  Lally/ Valentine  TRG / Porsche GT3 Cup  90  1:21.139  57  82  CRG/ Maxter/ Rotax/ MBA/ NFP/ F1Air 
3  Miller/ Werner  Farnbacher Loles Motorsports / Porsche GT3 Cup  90  1:20.596  82  82  Marquis Jet/ IPC/ Recaro 
4  Lux/ Henzler  Tafel Racing / Porsche GT3 Cup  90  1:19.749  56  82  Rembrandt Charms 
5  Farnbacher/ Keen  Farnbacher Loles Motorsports / Porsche GT3 Cup  90  1:21.085  58  82  Shoes for Crews/ Recaro 
6  de Quesada/ Dumoulin  Alegra Motorsports/ Fiorano Racing / Porsche GT3 Cup  89  1:22.495  9  82  Gatorade/ TodayMD.com 
7  Edwards/ Collins  Banner Racing / Pontiac GXP.R  89  1:21.771  47  82  Banner Engineering 
8  Johnson/ Huisman  Synergy Racing / Porsche GT3 Cup  89  1:21.780  44  82  EMC Mechanical/ Gamewell Mechanical 
9  Lacey/ Wilkins  Doncaster Racing / Porsche GT3 Cup  89  1:23.013  9  82  MineStar Solutions/ Tim Hortons 
10  Reese/ Lewis Jr  Banner Racing / Pontiac GXP.R  88  1:23.104  82  81  Banner Engineering 
11  Tucker/ Zabinski  TRG / Porsche GT3 Cup  88  1:23.136  44  81  Specialty Medical Supplies/500 Fast Cash 
15  Patterson/ Negri Jr  Michael Shank Racing / Lexus Riley  88  1:16.071  55  81  Nettapp/ TSP/ Michael Shank Racing 
12  Cicero/ Bunting  Stevenson Motorsports / Corvette  88  1:23.179  56  81  Stevenson Automotive 
13  Riggins/ Rice  Stevenson Motorsports / Corvette  88  1:22.864  44  80  Stevenson Automotive 
14  Friedman/ Prewitt  Autometrics Motorsports / Porsche GT3 Cup  88  1:24.187  58  80  Autometrics Motorsports 
15  Aschenbach/ Pavan  Racers Edge Motorsports / Pontiac GXP.R  88  1:23.433  28  80  Racers Edge Motorsports 
16  Assentato/ Longhi  SpeedSource / Mazda RX-8  87  1:21.992  72  80  FXDD 
17  Constantine/ Borkowski/ Murry  Playboy Racing/ Unitech / Nissan 350Z  87  1:25.235  81  79  Playboy 
18  Nastasi/ Tagliani  Blackforest Motorsports / Mustang Cobra  86  1:21.851  58  79  USG Sheetrock/ Ramset Tools/ Guardian Insulation 
19  Swartzbaugh/ Davis  Tafel Racing / Porsche GT3 Cup  82  1:21.634  20  75  North South Machinery/ ANCA/ Dunkel Bros/ Tornos 
20  Nonnamaker/ Nonnamaker  Team Sahlen / Corvette  68  1:24.188  42  75  HRPworld.com/ GOJO/ Hawk

[SVT666]

I believe that Mustang is a tube chassis and has nothing in common with the FR500C.

EDIT:  ...and that goes for the RX-8 as well.

[TheIntrepid]

I am posting in this thread for the sole reason of earning a nickname from Netheadude.

[SVT666]

I am posting in this thread for the sole reason of earning a nickname from Netheadude.

TrepDude.

[Nethead]

I am posting in this thread for the sole reason of earning a nickname from Netheadude.

What was wrong with "IntrepiDude", IntrepiDude?

[S204STi]

R-inge:? RingDude,? you're mixing classes of vehicles here.?

There is indeed one tube-chassis looks-like-a-Mustang-FR500GT-from-quite-a-long-ways-off Mustang in existence.? It was hand-built by Crawford Composites somewhere in North Carolina.? It was made to compete in the GT class of the Rolex Series of the Grand American Road Racing Association, where all the cars in that class have tube frames except--possibly--the Porsche GT3s (I'm not sure of this, so check it out if you're interested).? Tube-chassis Mazda RX8s have dominated the 2007 season so far.

The FR500Cs we're talking about here compete in the GS class, which requires stock frames (additional seam welding, roadracing rollcages, and interior-stripping are allowed).? No one gets to run tube frames in the GS class.

The mid-engined DP (Daytona Prototype) cars and the GT cars race together in races currently called "The Rolex (Something)", with winners in both classes.?

The GS cars and the ST cars race together in races that are run separately from the Rolex races, and these races are currently called "The Koni Challenge", with winners in both classes.

There is also a 525 HP naturally-aspirated Mustang FR500GT (basically a FR500C with none of the many restrictions the GS rules place upon the 5.0 'Cammer in the FR500C) but it is not legal in US racing.? It is currently being homologated for racing in Europe's "GT3" series of races.

Ah, sorry I missed that.

[TheIntrepid]

What was wrong with "IntrepiDude", IntrepiDude?

I don't remember that, but thanks. I'm satisfied. I don't post in The Fast Lane much because it's mostly about technical crap, which I know nothing about. By the way Nethead, what do YOU drive?

[SVT666]

I don't remember that, but thanks. I'm satisfied. I don't post in The Fast Lane much because it's mostly about technical crap, which I know nothing about. By the way Nethead, what do YOU drive?

A kickass 1966 Bronco.

[Nethead]

A kickass 1966 Bronco.

Yep, HEMI666 is correct--it's a '66 289 3-speed, converted to floor shift.  With its four-wheel drums I don't measure my stopping distances in feet but in counties crossed.  It's an adventure...

[TheIntrepid]

Yep, HEMI666 is correct--it's a '66 289 3-speed, converted to floor shift.  With its four-wheel drums I don't measure my stopping distances in feet but in counties crossed.  It's an adventure...

[Nethead]

Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez
Mexico City
Rolex Series
Rolex Race: March 3, 2007 3:15 PM

GT Series

1? Tremblay/ Ham/ Haskell? SpeedSource / Mazda RX-8? 92? 1:29.704? 51? 97? Mazda/ Mazdaspeed?
2? Farnbacher/ Keen? Farnbacher Loles Motorsports / Porsche GT3 Cup? 91? 1:29.956? 3? 97? Shoes for Crews/ Recaro?
3? Assentato/ Longhi? SpeedSource / Mazda RX-8? 91? 1:30.062? 48? 97? FXDD ?
4? Miller/ Werner? Farnbacher Loles Motorsports / Porsche GT3 Cup? 91? 1:29.695? 3? 96? MarquisJet/ Recaro?
5? Swartzbaugh/ Davis? Tafel Racing / Porsche GT3 Cup? 91? 1:30.312? 53? 96? North South Machinery/ ANCA/ Dunkel Bros/ Tornos?
6? Wilkins/ Lacey? Doncaster Racing / Porsche GT3 Cup? 91? 1:30.331? 51? 96? Minestar Solutions/ Tim Hortons?
7? Lux/ Henzler? Tafel Racing / Porsche GT3 Cup? 91? 1:29.631? 49? 96? Rembrandt Charms?
8? Lally/ Valentine? TRG / Porsche GT3 Cup? 90? 1:30.463? 47? 96? CRG/ Maxter/ Rotax/ MBA/ NFP/ F1Air?
9? Cicero/ Bunting? Stevenson Motorsports / Corvette? 90? 1:30.316? 45? 95? Stevenson Automotive?
10? Edwards/ Collins? Banner Racing / Pontiac GXP.R? 90? 1:29.531? 55? 95? Banner Engineering?
11? Pumpelly/ Schroeder? TRG / Porsche GT3 Cup? 90? 1:29.917? 67? 95? Cohen Financial?
12? de Quesada/ Dumoulin? Alegra Motorsports / Porsche GT3 Cup? 89? 1:31.536? 38? 95? Gatorade/ TodayMD.com?
13? Nastasi/ Tagliani? Blackforest Motorsports / Mustang Cobra GT? 89? 1:29.381? 74? 95? USG Sheetrock/ Guardian Insulation

sucks to drive a Mustang i guess?

r0tor:? Wake up, rotoDude, and smell the tube frames--that GT class "Mazda RX-8" is tube-framed, the "Mustang Cobra GT" is tube-framed, and doubtless all the others except for possibly the "Porsche GT3 Cup" cars--THOSE may actually have the frame that came on the car at the dealership--the Nethead here can't afford even a stock Porsche, much less a GT class Porsche GT3 Cup.? You nor I can afford the GT class SpeedSource "RX-8" or the GT class Blackforest "Mustang Cobra GT".? Both are tube-framed, shop-built racecar chasses with production-appearing bodies made out of carbon fiber or fiberglass fitted to them.? You'll never own one, I'll never one, and no one in this forum will ever own one...The same tube-frame chassis in that GT class Mustang was originally designed and built by Crawford Composites for a GT class Lexus--they just changed the chassis to fit the Mustang's wheelbase and engine mounting specs.? It's superficially a "Mustang", but with as much in common with the S197 Mustang it resembles as it has with the P-51 Mustang of the last century.? Ditto for the SpeedSource GT class "RX-8".?

IMHO, it is an utter waste of time to have the GT class--it's NASCAR through-and-through.? Meanwhile, the once-powerful stock-framed RX-8s are suffering defeat after defeat by Hondas in the much, much closer to the cars you or I can buy ST class.? Ditto for the Mustang, too, but at least in the much-closer-to-stock GS class they are still the cars to beat (or to subdue with punitive rules).? Haskell and Tremblay ruled the ST class through 2005, got whupped in 2006, and sold out to the GT class in 2007.

[Nethead]

There.? Fixed.

HEMI666:  If you're talking about the Mustang-Challenger-Camaro class that Dan Davis hoped to run under the auspices of CART, I think that's history (which is why the FR500GT is being homologated in Europe's "GT3" class)...

[SVT666]

HEMI666:? If you're talking about the Mustang-Challenger-Camaro class that Dan Davis hoped to run under the auspices of CART, I think that's history (which is why the FR500GT is being homologated in Europe's "GT3" class)...

That's too bad, I was actually looking forward to it.

[Nethead]

That's too bad, I was actually looking forward to it.

It wasn't that great of an idea, actually.  Chevy won't play unless they get the rules they want.  Dodge won't play unless they get the rules they want.  Both Mustang imitations will be out of production again before their manufacturers could agree on a set of rules favorable enough to them to be acceptable.  The American Iron/American Iron Extreme series may work something out, but that's such an "anything goes" series that the cars there would have only a body shell resemblance to the actual vehicles themselves.  That kind of unrestrained atmosphere caused the racing public to slowly lose interest in the Trans-Am series, although it hung on for over forty years before it collapsed.  The Grand American Cup is not mature enough yet to succeed at a series like that.  What would become of the series when the Camaro and the Challenger become extinct again?