So, I've decided to paint my own car...

[Eye of the Tiger]

Actually, I've just gotten the trim of, and its welded studs- I don't see any problem with grinding them flush and then bondo-ing it just a little to smooth things out.

Oh yeah, that's fine. I was just talking about rivet holes.

[Raza]

I would get an array of brushes.  Fat ones, and skinny ones for those areas that need some detail.

[southdiver1]

Actually, I've just gotten the trim of, and its welded studs- I don't see any problem with grinding them flush and then bondo-ing it just a little to smooth things out.

Small holes, I would use Bondo for sure. Ohyeah, get a dust mask.. Sorry I forgot to mention that.

[ChrisV]

Just so we have it here, in case the VWVortex thread goes away...

Actually, you can get good results at Maaco, if you do good prep work before hand. Prep is almost all the labor cost in a high quality paint job (true, the materials themselves are more expensive: Real urethanes rather than the synthetic enamels with urethane catalysts that Maaco uses), so if you're careful, you can get a good job for cheap with Maaco and your work. (You may not go, but others reading this might, and this will help get the best job possible).

A good shop will often have to go over the car anyway, so you won't save too much by doing work yourself, unless you are confident enough in your prep work just to have them spray over it... But there are still steps you can take to save some labor and time.

Remove as much trim as is possible. Removing trim means 1) not having tape lines, and 2) someone else isn't responsible for loss or damage. It also means that the prep work can be done right under where the trim was, for a higher quality finish job (and edges around trim is where jobs usually fall down when economizing. Lack of sanding right next to trim can cause paint to peel later). If you're changing color, also remove door panels and carpet edge trim in the door jambs. Do a thourough job of cleaning the jambs (even if you're not changing color. This keeps dirt from coming back out into the new paint. A good shop will do it, but it's labor, and you can save time there.) On the same lines, clean the engine compartment thoroughly. Get a good degreaser/wax remover, and go over the whole car. Especially the door jambs, as years of Armor All can accumulate and cause problems (Armor All and the like are silicone sealants. Paint doesn't stick to silicone, and usually has serious reaction probems to even a drop of the stuff...).

If you are doing the engine compartment, degrease everything, and pull back as much wiring as you can, or completely mask everything (an easy trick is to use aluminum foil to wrap intricate bits...)

These are basics that can save the paint shop a bit of time and hassle. It may not save much money, but the job will be better, which ends up the same thing. If you want to go farther (or go to Maaco), you can do much of the sanding yourself. On areas where no bodywork is necessary, get a sanding block and 320 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper, of good quality (3M or Mirka Gold). Carefully wet sand the body with the block (taking care around edges, so as not to sand through) untill all trace of gloss is gone, and you have a nice, even, dull finish, getting as close to the factory primer level as you dare (remember, electrostatically applied, baked alkyd enamel like the factory uses is the absolute best substrate for new paint there is... bare metal requires serious chemicals to make it so that airborne applied paint sticks and doesn't have corrosion problems later. And NO "baked" paint afterward is truly baked like the factory paint is. For one, when painting at the factory, there are no glass, trim, or interior parts installed to be damaged by high temps.) Sand in linear motions, but alternate directions to keep the sanding even and level. In the jambs (if painting them) use the 320 by hand in as much as you can reach easily. Then get 3M Scotch Brite pads (the red ones) and go after them again (the Scotch Brite gets into all the crevasses regular sandpaper can't). Use the Scotch Brite on the body crevasses that are hard to reach with sandpaper (especially around edges of panels).

Any areas where bodywork is necessary (door dings, minor dents) need to be hit quickly with 80 grit paper. Door dings need to be shown up so they can be attended to (if you want, you can do the work yourself with a high quality filler. I use USC's BaseCoat/ClearCoat, as it spreads smoothly in very thin layers, is easy to work, extremely easy to sand, and doesn't stain through the top coats. It is also light and durable (I had a customer get hit in the same spot that I had done serious bodywork on and the filler that was there not only didn't crack, it didn't separate from the body surface)). If you are going to be doing the bodywork (say before going to Maaco) try to always hammer and dolly out most of the dent, so the filler is only a skim coat to fill the minor hammer ripples left. Filler is better when thinner (anything under an eighth inch should last a lifetime). And again, try NOT to remove factory paint if at all possible, because filler sticks better to paint than to metal, and there is little chance of trapping water or corrosion that way. Just scuff it well with 80 grit (don't use 36 or 40 grit, as it tends to leave scratches that show up later after the paint and primer shrink up...) before applying. Apply filler at the exact level you need it at, so to reduce sanding later. Feather well to the outside of the dent. Use a long board or longer block sander to make sure it's even and level (waves are for beaches...).

You can get good primer results on bodywork or edges that have been sanded to metal with Krylon sandable primer, believe it or not. Just spray a couple light coats, let dry thoroughly (24 hours is best), sand lightly with 320, then spray it lightly again to level it out. Major primer areas should be shot with a catalyed urethane primer, like PPG K200 (or the flexible version for urethane bumpers). Again, let cure completely (24 hours is best, even a couple days is good). Block sand wet with 320 before taking it to the paint shop. A good trick to make sure the surface is level is to kightly spray a spray can of color (like Krylon flat black) over the primed areas, letting it dry, then hitting it with the sanding block. This guide coat will show up imperfections that can be attended to, either by more sanding, or more bodywork if necessary.

After all is completed, clean completely again with a wax and grease remover.

I noticed I didn't say anything about masking and taping... ALWAYS use a good masking tape. Cheap tape is no savings ever. 3M or Amerian Performance automotive masking tape is all you want to use. If masking needs to be done, take your time (this is why you remove the trim... so making perfect edges isn't as critical, and there are more "natural" places to mask to...)

After this, it's ready to paint.

If you do go to Maaco after this, get their catalyzed paint (otherwise it will NEVER get repainted without completely stripping everything....), and if you go metallic or pearl, definitely get the clear topcoats (clearcoat is merely unpigmented paint, regardless of who does it). If you go solid colors, clear isn't necessary. Just have them put an extra coat on it.

After you get it home, let it cure for a couple days to a week. Then, hit it with 1000 grit wet sandpaper until all "orange peel" and dirt nibs are gone (be very careful of edges. In fact, stay a quarter inch or so away from the edges to start with). Hit it lightly after that with 1500 grit. then either a pro detailing shop OR even you can use rubbing compound and a foam pad, and polish the paint. Top it off with Meguire's #9 on a foam finishing pad for a deep gloss. But do NOT wax or treat your paint otherwise for 90 days! Regardless of where it comes from. The paint needs this time to cure properly, and waxing will inhibit that, and could possibly damage the paint for the long term. (Top show car guys do it right off, but top show cars never stay the same color for decades, so longetivity isn't as important...). Do these steps right, and you'd be surprised that a Maaco paint job can look considerably better than factory... (of course, it's still cheapo synthetic enamel with urethane catalyst, but if you're on a serious budget, it can still look like you spent good money...)

[southdiver1]

Chris,
I am thinking that he actually wants to do all the work himself. Something he can look at and say "I did it all".
You can understand that right?

[ChrisV]

The steps are the same. The only difference is the last bit as to who sprays the car, him or Maaco. I already gave the description of doing the paint. It's the prep that makes the job, regardless of who sprays it.

You can understand that, right?

[southdiver1]

The steps are the same. The only difference is the last bit as to who sprays the car, him or Maaco. I already gave the description of doing the paint. It's the prep that makes the job, regardless of who sprays it.

You can understand that, right?

Oh absolutly. I just think that if someone puts all that work into prepping the car, maybe they want to see it to the end?
I admit that the cost of buying a compressor, a gun, and the general mess might not be worth it but, if someone wants to do it from start to finish.....

[Soup DeVille]

Oh absolutly. I just think that if someone puts all that work into prepping the car, maybe they want to see it to the end?
I admit that the cost of buying a compressor, a gun, and the general mess might not be worth it but, if someone wants to do it from start to finish.....

Well, let's put it this way- the quotes I got on having it done ranged from $2500 to $4000. I already have a good compressor, and  a place to do this. Right now I'm ballparking that it might cost me $1000 to $1500 to do it myself- including buying the spray guns, paint and various other tools.

[JWC]

I don't have time to read back through the threads, but have you painted a car before?   Besides orange peel, there is fogging, and runs to worry about.  The thing to do is to practice on an old fender or hood.  Before I painted my first, I used an old hood to get a feel for the gun and for shooting at different angles.

[Soup DeVille]

I don't have time to read back through the threads, but have you painted a car before?? ?Besides orange peel, there is fogging, and runs to worry about.? The thing to do is to practice on an old fender or hood.? Before I painted my first, I used an old hood to get a feel for the gun and for shooting at different angles.

Nope. Yes, I'm aware of all those things.

[sparkplug]

just for practice paint on your neighbor's Bugatti Veyron.

[etypeJohn]

You might want to take a look at these sites before you proceed.   

http://www.rickwrench.com/50dollarpaint.html

http://www.freewebs.com/michael-jones/paintingcarsathome.htm


The bottom line is you can paint your car with a mop if you are willing to do a bunch of sanding and polishing.


As they say in the commericals, your mileage may vary   

[ChrisV]

Well, let's put it this way- the quotes I got on having it done ranged from $2500 to $4000. I already have a good compressor, and  a place to do this. Right now I'm ballparking that it might cost me $1000 to $1500 to do it myself- including buying the spray guns, paint and various other tools.

You should be able to do it for that. My Fiat cost me $600 in materials to paint, and with a good HVLP gun (like my SataJet), you should be able to paint a larger car with very little more materials usage. For your first paint job, however, you really don't need to buy a $500 paint gun. OTOH, don't cheap out on a Husky or Harbor Freight one, either, A decent DeVilbiss HVLP gun should run about $150-200 and do you just fine. Get a good at-gun regulator to keep pressures down to 20-30psi (though keep the compressor output at 60-70 psi), and make sure to get a good water trap.

Paint materials cost can range quite a bit, but the cheaper stuff is, well, you get what you pay for. OTOH, you don't have to buy top of the line stuff, either. A good acrylic enamel with a urethane hardener would be the bottom level of paint you're looking at, but a mid level urethane base/clear combo should be the goal. As a beginner, they will give you the best results and be the most forgiving of making mistakes with. Cheap paint doesn't really let you get away with much in the way of mistakes. That is unless you don't care about the quality of final finish. And whatever you do, don't use uncatalyzed paint, you will be waiting forever for it to dry, and when it DOES dry, you can't repair it without risking a bad reaction between the new coats and old.

[Soup DeVille]

My paint's here, my paint's here, my paint's here!!



Still a ways to go, the car has been dechromed and I'm repairing the one major problem I've found, along with about half a dozen door dings and other marks, but if all goes well I'll be shooting primer before May!

[Raghavan]

that's some nice paint!

[Soup DeVille]

that's some nice paint!

Thanks.

I hope I can get it to look that good when its on the car...

[TBR]

Going for the PIMP look there? Now you just need to find a gold grill and you all be good to go.

[Soup DeVille]

Going for the PIMP look there? Now you just need to find a gold grill and you all be good to go.

Not really, but when you have a red/brown velour interior and a vinyl top, you gotta find something that'll coordinate.

I was trying to go with a color that people would believe was an original Caddy color, but that had more pizzazz than anything offered in 1979.

I prefer the term retro-lux

And no, the grille is staying chrome, and the car is being partially dechromed as it is.

[TBR]

Just to be clear, I was being sarcastic there. It's a great color for a '70s Caddy.

[Soup DeVille]

Just to be clear, I was being sarcastic there. It's a great color for a '70s Caddy.

No worries, and thanks.

[southdiver1]

OK.... That paint looks like there is a lot of metal flake in it. This is something that you REALLY need to take into concideration. When painting with metal flake, the thicker it goes on, the more the flake will lay down (if I remember correctly). The thinner it goes on, the more the metal will stand up. I might have this reversed so double check with a body shop. Either way, you MUST make sure that you apply the same thickness all over the car with every coat. Not much room for error on this one.
Also, see if you can get several small sealable bottles that you can save for touch up or, if needed, enough to use for an HVLP gun for bigger scratches.

[Soup DeVille]

OK.... That paint looks like there is a lot of metal flake in it. This is something that you REALLY need to take into concideration. When painting with metal flake, the thicker it goes on, the more the flake will lay down (if I remember correctly). The thinner it goes on, the more the metal will stand up. I might have this reversed so double check with a body shop. Either way, you MUST make sure that you apply the same thickness all over the car with every coat. Not much room for error on this one.
Also, see if you can get several small sealable bottles that you can save for touch up or, if needed, enough to use for an HVLP gun for bigger scratches.

Its not a metal flake, but a pearl. I talked a lot with the guy at Johnson auto paint (he has a website, www.wickedair.biz look ato some of his work, he seems to know what he's doing), and he tells me this will apply like a standard BC/CC paint.

[southdiver1]

Its not a metal flake, but a pearl. I talked a lot with the guy at Johnson auto paint (he has a website, www.wickedair.biz look ato some of his work, he seems to know what he's doing), and he tells me this will apply like a standard BC/CC paint.

Oh... ok. That is a lot easier to apply then flaked is. It was hard to tell from the pix.
If you really want to make a dark color pearl stand out, you should use a silver base coat first and then apply your pearl (is that copper?) paint over it. I did a burnt pearl orange like that and MAN it looked good. Again, you can do a practice shot on a peice of junkyard panel to see if you like it.

[Soup DeVille]

Oh... ok. That is a lot easier to apply then flaked is. It was hard to tell from the pix.
If you really want to make a dark color pearl stand out, you should use a silver base coat first and then apply your pearl (is that copper?) paint over it. I did a burnt pearl orange like that and MAN it looked good. Again, you can do a practice shot on a peice of junkyard panel to see if you like it.

The color is actually called cocoa: its not far from HOK's Kopper though. You're right, and Mark (the guy i've been talking to) said the same thing and showed me the difference, but again: that's another level of complexity.

Maybe i'll try something with a metallic base on my next try.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

What brand of paint is it, and what type(base, SS urethane, SS Enamel)?

[Soup DeVille]

What brand of paint is it, and what type(base, SS urethane, SS Enamel)?

Its HOK PBC-50 Cocoa Pearl (urethane), over KP-21CF epoxy primer and under UFC-01 clear.

Yeah, I know, but I got a pretty good deal on it, and the PPG paints I was looking at weren't much cheaper anyways.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

I've never used HOK myself but alot of my customer complain about it from a ease of use standpoint, but then again some guys love it.

They do have some pretty nice colors though, and price isn't as bad as some people think.

[Soup DeVille]

I've never used HOK myself but alot of my customer complain about it from a ease of use standpoint, but then again some guys love it.

They do have some pretty nice colors though, and price isn't as bad as some people think.

What has been said about ease of use?

The only complaints I've heard had to do with price.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

What has been said about ease of use?

The only complaints I've heard had to do with price.

Most of the guys  sell paint to do some custom work(cars, bikes, etc) and it can be hard to use when mixing HOK with other basecoats(when overlaying graphics or airbrushing). Atleast those are the complaints i've heard. If your using HOK products exclusively with one another then you'll be fine.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

HOK is priced like any other paint, price mostly depends on the color.

PPG has paints costing up to 1500 a gallon, even an unbelievable 5000 for that color shifting crap.