Mustang takes 51% of sports coupe market

[Soup DeVille]

Yes, you'll have to. Once I leave these fine shores, I'm 'underage'.

Nobody's underage in Detroit.

[Raza]

My favourite production Mustang is the Shelby GT.  My favourite tuner Mustang is the Parnelli Jones edition Saleen.

I just read the MT review of the Shelby GT, and I want one, badly.  Though I wish they came without those silly stripes.  I guess I'd have to take the white/silver.

[Raza]

maybe you should put one on your shopping list. who knows, in 16 months, maybe 2005 GT's will go for $15k

Don't tease me, Vin.  I can't take it.

[Raza]

My goodness; no wonder the Mustang has 51% of the market.

The 350Z, RX-8, and Tiburon are all good cars.  Though I'd take the Mustang over them all, save for the RX-8.

[omicron]

The 350Z, RX-8, and Tiburon are all good cars. Though I'd take the Mustang over them all, save for the RX-8.

It's full of good cars, but I'd always find myself drawn towards the Mustang for reasons I can't quite put into words.

[SVT666]

It's full of good cars, but I'd always find myself drawn towards the Mustang for reasons I can't quite put into words.

How about this word...character.  The Mustang has character, which is something the other cars lack.  You can make a car damn near perfect in every way but in my opinion that generally diminishes the character of the car.  Pretty soon it becomes just like any other sports car, or sports coupe, or family sedan.  The Mustang's rear axle makes it crude, but the crudeness is what I love about it.  It's the last production car made that has the "feel" of the muscle and pony cars of old.  It's loud, crude, and simple.  There are no electronic nannies except 100% defeatable traction control (which allows wheelspin when on - I can attest to that).  The car is exactly what it is...cheap performance that can hang with most cars on the road.  The Mustang was always just the base car for whatever you wanted to do to it.  It's all about tire shredding torque and rumbling exhaust, and putting up with the quirks of the car is just part of the charm.  I used to curse having to lean forward to get the shifter into 5th gear, but now I kinda miss it.

Fuck I want one again. 

[Nethead]

I thnk the Cobalt might be classified in the compact segment anyways, and the RX-8 might not be considered a coupe.

Soup DeVille:? Good point, SoupDude--just how DO they classify the RX-8???

If I read it correctly, the Mustang has over 51 percent of the sports coupe market regardless of what type of sports coupe is under consideration--full-sized, compact, intermediate, domestic, import, yada yada yada...I believe hatchbacks aren't classified as "coupes"--sports or otherwise.

And at least at the end of 2005, Mustang had over 51 percent of the convertible market in the US, too.? I haven't seen anything on 2006, but it's likely there's been no change...

Update:? 2006 top ten convertible sales in the US, top to bottom:? Mustang, BMW 3 series, Audi A4, Mercedes SLK, Camry, Mini Cooper, Solstice, MX-5, BMW Z4, and Boxster.  Numbers weren't given.

[omicron]

How about this word...character. The Mustang has character, which is something the other cars lack. You can make a car damn near perfect in every way but in my opinion that generally diminishes the character of the car. Pretty soon it becomes just like any other sports car, or sports coupe, or family sedan. The Mustang's rear axle makes it crude, but the crudeness is what I love about it. It's the last production car made that has the "feel" of the muscle and pony cars of old. It's loud, crude, and simple. There are no electronic nannies except 100% defeatable traction control (which allows wheelspin when on - I can attest to that). The car is exactly what it is...cheap performance that can hang with most cars on the road. The Mustang was always just the base car for whatever you wanted to do to it. It's all about tire shredding torque and rumbling exhaust, and putting up with the quirks of the car is just part of the charm. I used to curse having to lean forward to get the shifter into 5th gear, but now I kinda miss it.

Fuck I want one again.

You know what? It's a rear-wheel drive V8 pillarless coupe or convertible, and I love it immeasurably just for that.

[nickdrinkwater]

350Z
RX-8
Tiburon
Cobalt
etc.

Well the Mustang is better value than the Tiburon (Hyundai Coupe?) and the Cobalt doesn't really compare.

I wouldn't take a Mustang over a 350Z or an RX-8 but that's hardly surprising since I'm guessing they're more expensive.

[sportyaccordy]

It's an oxcart with a V8... can't beat it for the money

If a Sebring cost half what it does now, it would be the best midsize car out... doesn't make it better

[Raza]

Well the Mustang is better value than the Tiburon (Hyundai Coupe?) and the Cobalt doesn't really compare.

I wouldn't take a Mustang over a 350Z or an RX-8 but that's hardly surprising since I'm guessing they're more expensive.

Tiburon = Hyundai Coupe

The Tiburon is a lot cheaper than a Mustang GT, but similar to the V6.  The 350Z and RX-8s are different stories.  The RX-8 Grand Touring is going to cost about the same as a top of the line Mustang GT coupe, but the 350Zs run from less expensive to similar to massively more expensive.  The last 350Z I built online touched the 40 grand mark. 

[Ron From Regina]

How about this word...character.? The Mustang has character, which is something the other cars lack.? You can make a car damn near perfect in every way but in my opinion that generally diminishes the character of the car.? Pretty soon it becomes just like any other sports car, or sports coupe, or family sedan.? The Mustang's rear axle makes it crude, but the crudeness is what I love about it.? It's the last production car made that has the "feel" of the muscle and pony cars of old.? It's loud, crude, and simple.? There are no electronic nannies except 100% defeatable traction control (which allows wheelspin when on - I can attest to that).? The car is exactly what it is...cheap performance that can hang with most cars on the road.? The Mustang was always just the base car for whatever you wanted to do to it.? It's all about tire shredding torque and rumbling exhaust, and putting up with the quirks of the car is just part of the charm.? I used to curse having to lean forward to get the shifter into 5th gear, but now I kinda miss it.

Fuck I want one again.?

You hit the nail on the head. I work with another guy who is big into mustangs. He has a 95 GT, and had never driven the new one. I let him drive mine shortly after I got it, he said something to the effect of: "It feels nothing like my 95. It drives like a modern car should, but it still feels 100% mustang."

[Raza]

The flaws are the major charm of the car.  I find myself feeling this way about so many cars. 

[SVT666]

You hit the nail on the head. I work with another guy who is big into mustangs. He has a 95 GT, and had never driven the new one. I let him drive mine shortly after I got it, he said something to the effect of: "It feels nothing like my 95. It drives like a modern car should, but it still feels 100% mustang."

That's exactly how I felt about the 2007 Mustang GT.  Before I even started the engine I just sat there and looked around.  My first thought was, "This feels exactly like my '96 Mustnag...yet it feels so different too".  Everything about the car felt different but yet felt the same.  I don't know how they did it, but whatever they did...worked. 

[SaltyDog]

The.

Mustang.

Is.

Great!

[93JC]

The.

Mustang.

Is.

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRreat!

[FordSVT]

It's full of good cars, but I'd always find myself drawn towards the Mustang for reasons I can't quite put into words.

300 hp, rwd, bad-ass looks and heritage for $25,000 US? Sums it up nicely for me!
-FordSVT-

[Nethead]

300 hp, rwd, bad-ass looks and heritage for $25,000 US? Sums it up nicely for me!
-FordSVT-

And then there's resale value--and not just owning a car, but being part of The New Mustang Nation:

Mustang mania is fun -- and it helps sick children and their families
Mark O'Brien
mobrien@pnj.com

Every vehicle has a story. Something resonates with the owner -- price, reliability, mileage -- and produces cursing or gratitude.

But stories about Mustangs often have an extra twist.

Maybe it's because the car has had such a dramatic impact on so many Americans since Ford's new car made its debut in late 1964. The sporty but affordable vehicle revved up the auto scene, especially for young people seeking something different from their fathers' Oldsmobiles.

The Mustang isn't just a guy thing.

Tammy Beloney likes the blend of yellow and black that makes her 2005 convertible stand out.

She never owned a Mustang until she saw this model and decided, "This one I had to go home with. ... I wanted something that didn't look like something everybody else has."

The mania can be multigenerational, too.

It was their teenage son who got Mike and Suzzan Jones interested in buying a Mustang Cobra.

When they drove it home from the dealership, Suzzan cried with joy -- so happy that she got a car she had wanted for years.

Since then, they've put more than 120,000 miles on the Cobra, and son Shane, now 21, drives a restored '65 Mustang.

They're all members of the Gulf Coast Regional Mustang Club, which concludes its annual free show this afternoon.

More than 150 Mustangs of various vintages are on display in front of University Mall; another 50 are for sale.

This is Mustang country. The Gulf Coast club was one of the first chartered Mustang clubs.

But the show is about more than just Mustangs.

Since the club was chartered in 1978, it has donated more than $386,000 to local charities that help children.

That means the group must sell a lot of T-shirts and collect a lot of entry fees.

Some entrants come from Maryland and Ohio, shoveling their way out of snow to strut their stuff in Pensacola, which has the first judged show of the season.

Along with being fun, Mustangs can make money for their owners, although sentiment keeps many from selling.

Donnie Carlisle bought a used 1968 fastback for $600 and restored it. Recently, someone offered him more than $40,000, but he declined.

While some use their cars regularly, others keep them garaged -- and covered.

That's how B.J. Lane cares for his limited edition "7-Up" Mustang, which has only 37,000 miles in 17 years.

When Lamarr Seader built a garage at his home in Milton, he had it oversized so no doors would get dinged against the walls. He wanted the best for his 1965 fastback, which sold new for $3,400 and now is insured for $46,000.

Seader had to work to get this car from the elderly widow who was selling it 21 years ago.

Price wasn't the problem. Instead, the woman wanted to know what he planned to do with her late husband's car.

"It was like asking her for her daughter's hand," said Seador, who was in his early 40s at the time.

He had no intention of racing it, he assured her.

When he got enough money, he said, he would restore it. That's what he did.

And he named it "Evelyn" after the woman who sold him the car.

[FordSVT]

Tiburon = Hyundai Coupe

The Tiburon is a lot cheaper than a Mustang GT, but similar to the V6.? The 350Z and RX-8s are different stories.? The RX-8 Grand Touring is going to cost about the same as a top of the line Mustang GT coupe, but the 350Zs run from less expensive to similar to massively more expensive.? The last 350Z I built online touched the 40 grand mark.?

In Canada, the  $45,000 base price of a 350Z is $11,000 more than a Mustang GT, and only $6,000 less than the MSRP on a Shelby Cobra (yeah, I know, "MSRP  "). An RX-8 automatic starts at $36,000 and a manual at just under $40,000, but you can definitely get one for much less.

Surprisingly, the Mustang GTs (especially the conv.) are still going for almost retail. You can get a good deal on a V6 though. Honestly, a V6 convertible would be a great car for most people, and I don't mean that as a slam. It's almost impossible to get 200+ hp for that kind of $$$, let alone a rwd coupe. There are a TON of V6 Mustang conv. around here, it feels like they outnumber Sebrings and Miatas and Z3/4s 10:1.
-FordSVT-

[Raza]

In Canada, the  $45,000 base price of a 350Z is $11,000 more than a Mustang GT, and only $6,000 less than the MSRP on a Shelby Cobra (yeah, I know, "MSRP  "). An RX-8 automatic starts at $36,000 and a manual at just under $40,000, but you can definitely get one for much less.

Surprisingly, the Mustang GTs (especially the conv.) are still going for almost retail. You can get a good deal on a V6 though. Honestly, a V6 convertible would be a great car for most people, and I don't mean that as a slam. It's almost impossible to get 200+ hp for that kind of $$$, let alone a rwd coupe. There are a TON of V6 Mustang conv. around here, it feels like they outnumber Sebrings and Miatas and Z3/4s 10:1.
-FordSVT-

Wow.  Dealers can still get away with Mustang GT markups up there?  That's kind of ridiculous. 

Now, the Mustang V6 is a good value; that kind of power and RWD is pretty much unprecedented at that price.  Or, it would be a good value if it weren't a Mustang.  A real Mustang has eight cylinders.  I know why the V6 Mustang exists though, I get that.  But I would also like to see a Cougar based on the Mustang that looks very much different.  That would be awesome. 

[SVT666]

I tool these prices right off the Nissan and Ford Canadian websites (before taxes):

Nissan 350Z: $49,798 (base 350Z coupe) - $60,798 CDN (loaded Vert)
Mustang GT: $35,149 (base Mustang GT coupe) - $46,139 CDN (loaded California Special Vert)
Shelby GT500: $53,649 (base GT500 coupe) - $59,739 CDN (loaded Vert)

A loaded 350Z Vert is actually more expensive then a GT500 Vert.  I know which one I would take, and it wouldn't be the Nissan.

[SVT666]

Wow.? Dealers can still get away with Mustang GT markups up there?? That's kind of ridiculous.?

The only way you are getting a Mustang GT for much under MSRP up here is if you know the sales manager or one of the top salesmen personally.  Lease rates on Mustang GTs are 10.3% and financing is 5.9%.

[Raza]

The only way you are getting a Mustang GT for much under MSRP up here is if you know the sales manager or one of the top salesmen personally.  Lease rates on Mustang GTs are 10.3% and financing is 5.9%.

Yeah, but I wouldn't pay more than MSRP. 

[SVT666]

Yeah, but I wouldn't pay more than MSRP.?

We've become really good friends with the Ford saleswoman who sold us the Freestyle and her husband.  In fact her daughter is our babysitter.  She told me that if I wanted, she could get me a Mustang at dealer invoice because she's the dealer's top salesperson.  Every month for the last 4 months she has sold a minimum of 28 cars.  When she told me that, I looked at my wife and she gave me this, "If you do, you die" look.

[Ron From Regina]

The only way you are getting a Mustang GT for much under MSRP up here is if you know the sales manager or one of the top salesmen personally.? Lease rates on Mustang GTs are 10.3% and financing is 5.9%.

The trick is to find a rural dealer who sells mostly trucks. They may have a small allocation of Mustangs, but they are just happy to make a sale.

I ordered mine when the order banks first opened for the 05GTs. Dealers around here were charging over MSRP. I paid over 2 1/2 thousand less. The dealer I bought from had an allocation of exactly 1 mustang GT, but the last mustang GT he sold was 3 years earlier (to me), so he wasn't worried about burning his allocation, like the larger city dealers are.

[Ron From Regina]

Wow.? Dealers can still get away with Mustang GT markups up there?? That's kind of ridiculous.?

Now, the Mustang V6 is a good value; that kind of power and RWD is pretty much unprecedented at that price.? Or, it would be a good value if it weren't a Mustang.? A real Mustang has eight cylinders.? I know why the V6 Mustang exists though, I get that.? But I would also like to see a Cougar based on the Mustang that looks very much different.? That would be awesome.?

A V6 mustang is what got me hooked on mustangs in the first place, eventually buying 2 V8s.

[SVT666]

The trick is to find a rural dealer who sells mostly trucks. They may have a small allocation of Mustangs, but they are just happy to make a sale.

I ordered mine when the order banks first opened for the 05GTs. Dealers around here were charging over MSRP. I paid over 2 1/2 thousand less. The dealer I bought from had an allocation of exactly 1 mustang GT, but the last mustang GT he sold was 3 years earlier (to me), so he wasn't worried about burning his allocation, like the larger city dealers are.

  He sold two Mustangs in 3 years and they were both to you?  That's hilarious.

[SVT32V]

It's an oxcart with a V8... can't beat it for the money

A modified Jag S-type/Lincoln LS chassis based Mustang with 53/47 weight distribution is far from an ox cart.

[Raza]

A modified Jag S-type/Lincoln LS chassis based Mustang with 53/47 weight distribution is far from an ox cart.

Welcome to the forums.

And, the Mustang actually shares very little with the LS platform, from what I'm told.

[SVT32V]

Welcome to the forums.

And, the Mustang actually shares very little with the LS platform, from what I'm told.

Thanks for the Welcome.

From Wikipedia

"Despite rumours, D2C is loosely based on the Ford DEW platform which served as the basis for the Lincoln LS, Ford Thunderbird, and Jaguar S-Type. The 2005 S197 Mustang was originally designed to use a "Lite" version of the DEW98 platform, but while that plan was eventually scrapped as too expensive, most D2C platform development completed prior to that decision was retained. This led to the carryover of several DEW98 chassis components. These components include the floor pan, transmission tunnel, front frame rails, and fuel tank design.

Differences between D2C and DEW98 are most noticeable in the suspension: The DEW98-based Lincoln LS uses a 4-wheel independent double wishbone suspension. The D2C platform's MacPherson strut front suspension and solid axle rear suspension are less expensive to produce than DEW's more complicated setup. D2C also shares components with other Ford platforms. These include Ford's global C1 platform, with which D2C shares front strut and rear trailing arm components."

I think the floor plan/trans tunnel, front frame rails etc constitute a considerable portion of the unit body chassis.  Of course there are considerable differences but enough remains that such things as a two-piece driveshaft was necessary since the jag chassis IRS based structure would not allow enough travel for a traditional stick axle/single piece driveshaft. 

In any event, the DC2 is not an ox-cart by any means.