Calgary Car Show - Shelby GR-1

[Raza]

Well I wouldn't expect a Porsche owner to understand why i'd rather take an Aston over a Porsche.

I was being sarcastic, but I do know why someone would buy an Aston V8 over a Porsche.  Not for performance reasons.

[Raghavan]

For sure. Even though the AMV8 is a good performer, for the money you can buy a faster 911 but the Aston looks so nice and is more exclusive than the 911.

[TheIntrepid]

You're right.  I can see why you'd pay 20 grand more for a Ford that doesn't perform as well.

You're just a Porsche whore. One who bought the cheapest Porsche...just to say he has a Porsche. :P

[Raza]

You're just a Porsche whore. One who bought the cheapest Porsche...just to say he has a Porsche. :P

I know you're trying to joke, but that's wrong on two accounts.

1.  It's a Boxster S. 
2.  The Boxster isn't the cheapest Porsche.

[SVT666]

You're just a Porsche whore. One who bought the cheapest Porsche...just to say he has a Porsche. :P

You're wrong on a third count: He didn't buy it.

[TheIntrepid]

I know you're trying to joke, but that's wrong on two accounts.

1.  It's a Boxster S. 
2.  The Boxster isn't the cheapest Porsche.

I forgot about the base Cayenne

[FoMoJo]

The GR-1 is a beautiful car and a great tribute to the Daytona Coupe.  I saw it down at the Toronto Auto Show.  If it were produced, I expect it would be a niche market...and that niche may already be filled, in part, by the Superformance Daytona.  However, I hope they do build it...even a couple hundred for posterity.

[Raza]

You're wrong on a third count: He didn't buy it.

That's also true.

[Nethead]

WTF did he ever do to your sorry ass?

He should do something, I suppose, since it was my sorry ass that slipped a mirror over the screen of his PC...

[Raghavan]

He should do something, I suppose, since it was my sorry ass that slipped a mirror over the screen of his PC...

WOW! My PC has a screen???
I'm looking all over for it but can't find it.

[Nethead]

You're just a Porsche whore. One who bought the cheapest Porsche...just to say he has a Porsche. :P

TheIntrepid:  So, IntrepiDude, you're an Intrepid whore who bought the Intrepid just so you could say that you bought the cheapest Rapide.  What's the difference?  Oh, yeah--Raza has a Porsche and you have an Intrepid...

[Nethead]

WOW! My PC has a screen???
I'm looking all over for it but can't find it.

Raghavan: RagDude, they haven't arrested you , but they should...

[Nethead]

The GR-1 is a beautiful car and a great tribute to the Daytona Coupe.? I saw it down at the Toronto Auto Show.? If it were produced, I expect it would be a niche market...and that niche may already be filled, in part, by the Superformance Daytona.? However, I hope they do build it...even a couple hundred for posterity.

FoMoJo:  There is no question that it's sleek, and no question that with at least 605 HP and 500 feet pounds of torque that it's powerful, and furthermore there's no question that it's light--having an aluminum body on an aluminum chassis powered by an aluminum engine--all attributes we all can appreciate in any sportscar. 

But the tooling necessary to manufacture them affordably would cost far more than they could recover in total sales in such an overcrowded market--and if you skimped on the tooling and did lots of hand fabrication and assembly then they would cost waaayy more still...If there were only ten models of sportscars sold on Earth, the GR-1 would make a terrific and successful eleventh model. 

Hardly a month goes by that someone doesn't post a new mega-bucks, huge-horsepower, two-passenger sportscar pic or the link to same.  Each of these manufacturers are taking huge financial risks, and few of them will survive to sell fifty models of their products.  Many--perhaps most--won't sell half that, of course... 

I wish there was a list of every defunct sportscar manufacturer that sold at least five or more units of its sportscar--if you didn't manage to even sell five you could hardly be considered a "manufacturer", IMO.  Some of these get resurrected from time to time--the MG, for instance--and some are continued by other manufacturers as kits (how many Cobra 427 kitcar manufacturers are out there right now--a dozen??), but let's omit kitcars from the mix--to be a "manufacturer" for this discussion you gotta be selling complete running models with all running gear in the car and working at the time the vehicle is sold.   It's a little murky when you consider manufacturers of sportscars who also manufacture pickups, econoboxes, sedans, station wagons, SUVs, yada yada yada--those manufacturers may still be selling their other vehicles but their sportscars may no longer be in production.  "Murky" is always the term most serviceable when discussing automobile marketing!  But I digress...there are so many makes and models for sale that every pricing niche from below $20,000 US to above $1,250,000 US is covered.  There are a lot of good sportscars out there that will not survive this flooding, and that's a shame.  Especially if you're trying to find parts or a mechanic for your 2002 Offthewall...

The GR-1 won't be the first or the last rotundawonder to quietly fade away after making the autoshow rounds for a coupla years--remember the ME-412, or the Ford GT-90, or the three or four mid-engined Corvette concepts Motor Trend has promised us would be the 'Vette-after-next over the last forty years?  Not one of these domestic concepts made it to production, and the Nethead here doesn't see the world suffering for the lack thereof... 

[SVT666]

FoMoJo:? There is no question that it's sleek, and no question that with at least 605 HP and 500 feet pounds of torque that it's powerful, and furthermore there's no question that it's light--having an aluminum body on an aluminum chassis powered by an aluminum engine--all attributes we all can appreciate in any sportscar.?

But the tooling necessary to manufacture them affordably would cost far more than they could recover in total sales in such an overcrowded market--and if you skimped on the tooling and did lots of hand fabrication and assembly then they would cost waaayy more still...If there were only ten models of sportscars sold on Earth, the GR-1 would make a terrific and successful eleventh model.?

Hardly a month goes by that someone doesn't post a new mega-bucks, huge-horsepower, two-passenger sportscar pic or the link to same.? Each of these manufacturers are taking huge financial risks, and few of them will survive to sell fifty models of their products.? Many--perhaps most--won't sell half that, of course...?

I wish there was a list of every defunct sportscar manufacturer that sold at least five or more units of its sportscar--if you didn't manage to even sell five you could hardly be considered a "manufacturer", IMO.? Some of these get resurrected from time to time--the MG, for instance--and some are continued by other manufacturers as kits (how many Cobra 427 kitcar manufacturers are out there right now--a dozen??), but let's omit kitcars from the mix--to be a "manufacturer" for this discussion you gotta be selling complete running models with all running gear in the car and working at the time the vehicle is sold.? ?It's a little murky when you consider manufacturers of sportscars who also manufacture pickups, econoboxes, sedans, station wagons, SUVs, yada yada yada--those manufacturers may still be selling their other vehicles but their sportscars may no longer be in production.? "Murky" is always the term most serviceable when discussing automobile marketing!? But I digress...there are so many makes and models for sale that every pricing niche from below $20,000 US to above $1,250,000 US is covered.? There are a lot of good sportscars out there that will not survive this flooding, and that's a shame.? Especially if you're trying to find parts or a mechanic for your 2002 Offthewall...

The GR-1 won't be the first or the last rotundawonder to quietly fade away after making the autoshow rounds for a coupla years--remember the ME-412, or the Ford GT-90, or the three or four mid-engined Corvette concepts Motor Trend has promised us would be the 'Vette-after-next over the last forty years?? Not one of these domestic concepts made it to production, and the Nethead here doesn't see the world suffering for the lack thereof...?

People said the same damn thing about the Ford GT and look at how well it did.

[Nethead]

People said the same damn thing about the Ford GT and look at how well it did.

HEMI666:  The Ford GT was not front-engined RWD same ol' same ol' like the GR-1.  It's also the only production domestic vehicle by a major manufacturer that can sustain over 205 MPH--or even reach 200 MPH.  And since it can also turn the quarter-mile in the mid-elevens on the OEM tires, it is the only production supercar ever built in the US by a major domestic manufacturer.  The Ford GT was a descendant of the only American cars to win LeMans outright four years in a row--actually, a descendant of the only American cars to win LeMans outright AT ALL--much less four years in a row[/i]!  These features of the Ford GT guaranteed a market even at a 2004 price of over $150,000.  Certainly it was the cheapest production vehicle that could sustain over 200 MPH produced anywhere, and with great braking and handling to boot! 

The GR-1 isn't unique enough--if it had a 1500 HP turboshaft engine and AWD, it would be truly unique and they'd sell all of them they could build.  Or if it could handily outrun an ethanol CCXR or Veyron GT, it would be the latest hot thing in automotive fashion--hot 'til something faster debuts...I don't like the way it is a whole bunch, but it is still the way it is...   

[FordSVT]

The GR-1 isn't unique enough--if it had a 1500 HP turboshaft engine and AWD, it would be truly unique and they'd sell all of them they could build.? Or if it could handily outrun an ethanol CCXR or Veyron GT, it would be the latest hot thing in automotive fashion--hot 'til something faster debuts...I don't like the way it is a whole bunch, but it is still the way it is...? ?

I don't care how "unique" you think it has to be, I can guarantee Ford would sell 100% of these cars at sticker or above and with a ton of pre-orders if they made it.  Also, if they make it, Ford is talking about a lower price tag than the Ford GT. I'm not positive, but it might be cheap enough to be a GTR/Z06/911 competitor.

You're right that the Ford GT had a lot besides being a great car going for it though, it's the first truely "great" modern American supercar.
-FordSVT-

[ChrisV]

The GR-1 won't be the first or the last rotundawonder to quietly fade away after making the autoshow rounds for a coupla years--remember the ME-412, or the Ford GT-90, or the three or four mid-engined Corvette concepts Motor Trend has promised us would be the 'Vette-after-next over the last forty years?   

To be honest, the ME-412 was spearheaded by one man, one man who got a better deal with VW and went on to resurrect and bring to production the Veyron. Without him, DC didn't have a project leader that had the vision to build the car. But had he stayed, it would have been built.

The GT90 was done by the same group that ended up making the GT. So it kind of did come to fruition.

As for the GR1, I hope they do build it, as choice is a good thing, especially if it was a three way between the GR-1, Corvette, and Viper.

[SVT666]

As for the GR1, I hope they do build it, as choice is a good thing, especially if it was a three way between the GR-1, Corvette, and Viper.

My thoughts exactly.  The Viper's V10 has 600+hp, the next Vette SS (or whatever they are gonna call it) will have 600+hp, and the GR-1 has a 600+hp V10 under the hood.  They are all front engine, two seater, 600+hp, RWD cars.  That would kick ass.

[Nethead]

HEMI666, ChrisV, FoMoJo, & anyone else in this thread:? Dudes!? The Nethead here is a huge fan of monster fast, low, sleek, two seaters with brick wall braking and handling like a greased snake in a wagon rut.? What's not to like?

But I've sold cars, and that was in a market where even premium gasoline was under $.70 a gallon and the most optioned-out Caprice you could buy stickered at under $5500.00 US.? In Australia, that would have been $62,786,998.02 before conversion to Australian currency. ? It's like combat--strike where you have strength, not weakness.? There's no single uberdominant front-engined RWD two-passenger sportscar--there are dozens of them!? It's like playing a soccer match with ten teams on the pitch at the same time, eh?? Why produce this when you coulda kept Aston Martin--better-looking, already developed, technically advanced, hugely loyal customers, high profit margin on each unit, enormous appeal even to those who can't afford them (even Raghavan likes them ), a very successful racing program, and the "Bond, James Bond" cachet you'll never find in a 'Vette or a Viper!?

In realistic assessment of the sportscar market, it would be better to produce a blunt-nosed Ford GT (to Ford's everlasting credit, they refused to put a Chrysler 300C nose on a Ford GT just to appease the government) than it would be to produce yet another same ol' same ol' chassis with the vehicular dynamics limitations of a front-engined vehicle driving the rear wheels.? But that wouldn't be a Ford GT, nor would it be what the Ford GT was about.?

But I digress...Why bring out another competitor to the Jaguar XKR, which surely has its hands full battling Jaguar's rather deplorable public image?? Put the GR-1 concept and the XKR side-by-side and compare them--every difference is only one of degree, not one of substance.? A difference in degree would be the obvious power advantage of the GR-1 concept.? A difference in substance would be if one or the other were mid-engined or turboshaft powered or AWD--but none of these are true, so the cars spec out only different by degrees.? A difference in cylinder count is also just a difference of degree--both are still DOHC internal combustion V-engines.

Today's automotive market wants resounding reliability and effective innovation.? Re-styled imitation won't cut it anymore (the exception is the brand diehard, but their numbers have diminished steadily due to the greater public automotive savvy that was not generally true forty years ago when The Big Three ruled the US automotive market).? Effective innovations abound--four-wheel discs, ABS, seatbelts/harnesses, multivalve engines, variable timing, electronic ignition, electronic fuel injection, yada yada yada...many of these "innovations" were in place on many vehicles decades ago, yet many still aren't in some vehicles today.? Go figure?? The GR-1 concept's only "innovation" is all-aluminum construction--and that all-aluminum construction has never been subjected to NHTSA impact tests, which might require a long, long development process before it would be as protective as the same vehicle built in steel sheetmetal.? Aluminum requires a more costly welding process than steel, too, although riveting might be as effective as welding if some aerospace engineers were called in to implement the process.? In the end, you have a vehicle that would probably cost like a Vantage but won't sell like one--and many of its sales might be at the expense of Jaguar XKRs.?

And last but hardly least, before even a penny is spent on yet another front-engined RWD two-passenger sportscar, Ford needs to figure out how to economically divest itself of Jaguar, Mercury, Lincoln, and how to fittingly execute those whose idiot idea it was to sell Aston Martin and keep effin' Jaguar!? Tie 'em to anthills and spread honey on them?? Drag 'em behind a trawler that's throwing buckets of chum into the sea to attract sharks?? Toss 'em into vats whose blender blades are making ketchup out of tomatos?? Nahhhh--none of these exemplary methods are nearly painful enough...