Mazdaspeed3 wins C&D's latest sport compact comparo

[Onslaught]

I agree. And we have to keep in mind that we are car fans who like a totally different kind of car then a vast majority of the people out there. This is why many of you hate the Camry but most people love it.
Mazda made a Type R version of the MX-5 and a similar one of the NB MX-5 for all these people who said they wanted a pure sports car with no bells and whistles. And then after it came out they sat on the lot's and couldn't be given away. Simple fact is that the majority of the people want nice stuff and the majority normally wins.

[SJ_GTI]

Which isn't an exciting trend, no. But at the same time, I'm not sure I'd want to be driving a 2500lb car these days when half of the cars on the road weigh double that (SUV trend).

I'm not against light cars, but in general cars are so much nicer nowadays I am certainly not going to complain. There aren't many people that would rather own an MK1 GTI over an MK5, but if you are one of those people, then just go out and buy an MK1.

[etypeJohn]

V-6 Camries are faster than all of those cars

V6 Camries would also bore the tits off of Rachel Weisz.

[850CSi]

I'm not against light cars, but in general cars are so much nicer nowadays I am certainly not going to complain. There aren't many people that would rather own an MK1 GTI over an MK5, but if you are one of those people, then just go out and buy an MK1.

+1.

[Raza]

Which isn't an exciting trend, no. But at the same time, I'm not sure I'd want to be driving a 2500lb car these days when half of the cars on the road weigh double that (SUV trend).

Then go buy an SUV, you sissy.  With that mentality, we'll all be driving 10,000 pound mega SUVs.

[Champ]

Then go buy an SUV, you sissy.  With that mentality, we'll all be driving 10,000 pound mega SUVs.

To second this, I'd rather avoid the crash entirely by paying attention and have a quick reacting car.

[850CSi]

To second this, I'd rather avoid the crash entirely by paying attention and have a quick reacting car.

Because the old Miata was much more "quick reacting" than the new one...

[Onslaught]

Because the old Miata was much more "quick reacting" than the new one...

A little more.

[SJ_GTI]

Then go buy an SUV, you sissy.? With that mentality, we'll all be driving 10,000 pound mega SUVs.

If a 10,000 mega SUV drove better, was faster, more efficient, and was far more comfortable I would drive that.

In the end I drive a car, not a set of numbers. If a car drives better even though it doesn't sound like it on paper, I'd rather have the better car.

[SJ_GTI]

A little more.

A would love to see some evidence of this. The only comparison I've seen of the new one and the old one, the new MX-5 absolutely dominated the old Miata in every single possible way.

[FordSVT]

Its not like you have to get the options. I wanted a car with tons of luxury features so I loaded up on my GTI, but the "base" GTI comes with most of the expected features in the class (CD player w/ 8 speakers, HID headlamps, power everything, AC, etc...). It seems kind of silly to count the options against a car. In fact I would say its completely irrational. If you don't want the options, then don't buy them. Its not a complicated issue IMHO.

And the same people whine that the North American market doesn't get these loaded up sub-compacts they sell in Europe... and one wonders why we don't with so much whining going on from the other camp?
-FordSVT-

[Raza]

If a 10,000 mega SUV drove better, was faster, more efficient, and was far more comfortable I would drive that.

In the end I drive a car, not a set of numbers. If a car drives better even though it doesn't sound like it on paper, I'd rather have the better car.

I'm not saying that you should drive the better car.  I'm just saying if he's so afraid, he should just get caught up in the "safety" arms race.

[Onslaught]

A would love to see some evidence of this. The only comparison I've seen of the new one and the old one, the new MX-5 absolutely dominated the old Miata in every single possible way.

The NC will? get around a track faster because of the extra power. But I've driven every kind of? MX-5 ever sold in the US and the new one has much more body roll then the old ones. That and the new one gets beaten all the time at autocross events by 2nd generation MX-5's.

[SaltyDog]

It beat some good competition, but I'm not convinced.

[Nethead]

My original post is that these cars are starting to lose their original spirit of simplicity, lightweightness, affordability, and raw fun.? The fact that the GTI is available with DSG and heated seats but not an LSD is one reflection of the the trend.? But it's not the only reflection of that trend.? The fact that the SE-R, GTI, MS3, and WRX all weigh over 3000 pounds is another reflection of that trend.

565:  Thoughtful, incisive posting by 565Dude here...It is a tragedy that so much shit is standard that once was optional.  The buying public for lean and mean is getting scarcer, but it's partly because dealers hardly ever stock lean and mean anymore.  There's money to be made in dem thar options!  When you see lean and mean, it's usually more lean than mean so that the dealer can boast about the low sticker price and count on talking you up to a more heavily-optioned model ($$$) once you come on the lot to inquire about the lean model in the ad.  Lean vehicles seldom have LSD, for instance, and seldom have the highest-horsepower engine (if higher-horsepower engines are optionally available).  And there are rarely discounts available on a vehicle that you order from the factory with just the equipment you want--the big sales and rebates are usually limited to the stock on hand at the dealership right now.  Dealers cringe at the thought of having to repossess a stripper, especially if it came with a high-performance engine.  Not stocking such vehicles reduces their odds of winding up with a vehicle few customers are looking for--although advertising such a vehicle via the Internet may eventually change this attitude.  The Chevy dealership I worked for would not order a stripped down radio-less, heater-less Chevelle sedan with a 396 unless you paid a third down up front and got your own financing & insurance...Dudes tried, and got nowhere unless they had all three before they came through the door. 

[etypeJohn]

I'd take a GTI and WRX TR first.

Why?

[FordSVT]

He wants a slower car or he wants to pay more for it? I'm not sure. 
-FordSVT-

[Raza]

Why?

I dig the GTI massively, and the WRX's AWD is better suited to the power. 

[S204STi]

As I tooled around in the nasty weather here in my WRX, the awesome torque allowing me to shift at 4 grand and still easily outrun the rest of traffic, I remembered why I bought my car.  AWD performance, and foul weather capability.

[MidnightDave]

I have to weigh in with a few thoughts. I "love" my "old new" MINI and wouldn't think of owning a new new MINI.

If it weren't for the wifey, I'd probably drive a WRX and have it badged like a rally car and drive it off road and put it rubber up.

All these cars are great, back in the olden days, right after horse drawn surries, when I was driving compacts, they were things like Vegas and Pintos! You can tune and add hi-per parts to these cars, the only solution for those was to put in a bigger engine from something else, and it seems nobody even cared about handling!

I think the new Si might have given these guys a run for the money, don't know much about the Cobalt.

Europe has WAY more, WAY better small cars than we do, and CHEAP; the new MINI is considered an expensive car in Europe.

Mazda has come a long way since the GLC!

[Raza]

The new Si is really good Dave.  If you want to read my review of it (I used to do it professionally) go to "The Mainstreamers".

[Tave]

The new mini is considered an expensive car here too, at least by me.

[Raghavan]

The new mini is considered an expensive car here too, at least by me.

Even the old one is pretty expensive. They could go past $30k in a hurry.