Budget Japanese V12 flagships?

[sportyaccordy]

I think it's high time for companies like Lexus and Infiniti to stop pussyfooting, slap two of their awesome V6s back to back and put out some V12 flagships at a bargain compared to the Germans.

A Q60 and LS600 making about 500HP for about $90,000 would absolutely kill the S500/750i. They have the know how, parts bin, and IMO the market vacuum to fill, as well as the need to push their status up to the next level. Not to mention, these V12 engines would make for GREAT GT cars, which would also help their status... can you imagine a 550HP V12 coupe in the vein of the 8-series for ~100-120K, going up against the likes of the Vanquish S, 612 Scagletti, and the Continental GT?

Lexus and Infiniti have already established themselves on the low end. IMO, they're doing well, but to reach the final frontier, so to speak, they need to make a lineup of V12 flaghsips. What say you eh?

[Raza]

Do you really think they could carry it?  Infiniti already has trouble beyond the M series (they sell about half a Q45 a year), and Lexus still doesn't have the name to sell something over 100K.  Sure, there are some Lex-loyalists that will buy one to replace an LS430, but I don't think they'll be successful bringing in new buyers.

[ro51092]

The Germans will continue to dominate,

[goldenlover1101]

I don't think Infiniti can even come close to sustaining a V12 psuedo-super car. Lexus might be able to pull it off by selling to return customers above the GS450h (I think thats their top model, could be wrong though) but I don't think it would pay off or return the intial r&d. I just don't see a reason for it, let them play in the market they are already successful in.

[GoCougs]

Yes, the Japanese could easily do it, but at what benefit? I don't think there's much of a market to speak of.

BMW, Mercedes, Aston Martin and other V12 automakers trade on their legacy to sell those types of cars, and they sell so few of them.

Those with the money to buy these cars aren't looking for a steal: they want to spend a ton of money on their status symbol.

[Vinsanity]

it would thrill me to see Infiniti bring back the Q car with a V12 and design inspiration from the Mercedes CLS. but first we'd have to see if people are willing to pay the asking price for a Lexus LS600Lh

[thesvtautox]

i personally lexus could pull it off, but i dunno about infiniti.  while lexus' popularity has been consistant, infiniti's just turned around with the introduction of the first gen g35.  so if anything, lexus can do it.   

ps. i hate lexus   so dont corner me as a lexus troll

[thewizard16]

I'm sure Lexus could do it, they tend to be able to accomplish anything they want to throw a pile of money at, but with such a limited market for those type of cars and the price than goes with them, I imagine it'd be more for prestige building than anything.

[thewizard16]

I don't think Infiniti can even come close to sustaining a V12 psuedo-super car. Lexus might be able to pull it off by selling to return customers above the GS450h (I think thats their top model, could be wrong though) but I don't think it would pay off or return the intial r&d. I just don't see a reason for it, let them play in the market they are already successful in.

You mean LS460? The GS is their mid-range sedan, like the 5 series or A6.
http://www.lexus.com/models/allModels/

[goldenlover1101]

You mean LS460? The GS is their mid-range sedan, like the 5 series or A6.
http://www.lexus.com/models/allModels/

Sorry, it hink I was thinking of the LS600Lh maybe as stated above? I was thinking of the largest Lexus sedan thats a hybrid and pretty expensive. It uses the hybrid for performance more than mpg? Is that one correct?

[pommes-t]

The Germans will continue to dominate,

sounds good to me... 

[SaltyDog]

Lexus?  How about Jag brings one back and puts two I-6's into a V.  It could have a classic long hood.

[thewizard16]

Sorry, it hink I was thinking of the LS600Lh maybe as stated above? I was thinking of the largest Lexus sedan thats a hybrid and pretty expensive. It uses the hybrid for performance more than mpg? Is that one correct?

Probably so. I don't know if it's for sale yet, but it'll be a fast car for that size.

[Colonel Cadillac]

Infiniti does not have enough "name power" to build a car worth that much money yet, it would be a worthless investment.

Lexus on the other hand has just as much prestige as a Mercedes these days, and could very well push the V12 90-120,000K market.

[Danish]

Those with the money to buy these cars aren't looking for a steal: they want to spend a ton of money on their status symbol.

Originally I was going to post that the Japanese should go for it but this sentence convinced me otherwise.

[LonghornTX]

Lexus doesn't need one, they have the LS600H for that position.  Infiniti would first have to establish their Q as a comparable product to the current competition (in v8 form) before they should ever think about doing a v12, 100k+ model.

[Danish]

but first we'd have to see if people are willing to pay the asking price for a Lexus LS600Lh

The first allotment of these cars is almost sold out

[Danish]

One more thing to note is that with the Toyota Century, they do have some experience selling these types of cars.

[TheIntrepid]

I don't think Infiniti can even come close to sustaining a V12 psuedo-super car. Lexus might be able to pull it off by selling to return customers above the GS450h (I think thats their top model, could be wrong though) but I don't think it would pay off or return the intial r&d. I just don't see a reason for it, let them play in the market they are already successful in.

Lexus's highest model is the LS600hL...

[Vinsanity]

Lexus doesn't need one, they have the LS600H for that position.? Infiniti would first have to establish their Q as a comparable product to the current competition (in v8 form) before they should ever think about doing a v12, 100k+ model.

but maybe a V12 model for $75k...

[Sir_CARzy]

Lexus doesn't NEED a V12, $100k car. People who buy lexus's are people who want boring, dull, monotonous reliable luxury. People who buy lexi don't care about a car's performance. Lexus likes to think they care, they like to think they can achieve something in that segment - but they can't. Lexus has a demographic and they have to keep it, it's all they have. A driving enthusiast just isn't going to buy a Lexus over a BMW, are they? Would any of you guys buy a lexus over a BMW, factoring in the driving experience?

[sandertheshark]

Sorry, it hink I was thinking of the LS600Lh maybe as stated above? I was thinking of the largest Lexus sedan thats a hybrid and pretty expensive. It uses the hybrid for performance more than mpg? Is that one correct?

That's the one.  438hp.  Less than 20mpg.  But it's a Hybrid.  That means it's responsible excess.

[850CSi]

I don't know why anyone would want a V-12 in an LS.

The Q maybe but Infiniti isn't ready for something like that and won't be for a while. The last-gen Q45 was a pretty good car IMO and they couldn't sell it if their lives depended on it even though it cost nearly $20K less than the competition.

[thewizard16]

I don't know why anyone would want a V-12 in an LS.

The Q maybe but Infiniti isn't ready for something like that and won't be for a while. The last-gen Q45 was a pretty good car IMO and they couldn't sell it if their lives depended on it even though it cost nearly $20K less than the competition.

It's already really fast in a straight line, the hybrid will be quicker yet, so I guess the V12 would work for people who want to fly in a straight line. Curve disagree with the cars programming though, so that's out.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Why bother with V12's? Bring back the thumpers! Let's go with one huge cylinder in the cars. How about a 400ci single cylinder, air-cooled even, but we'll go with an QOHC (quad over head cames, one cam for each valve, because they're so huge!). Imagine the vibrations that thing would put out. Like your average lawnmower x 100. Cool.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Oh yeah, and while we're building 400-cube single cylinder engines, lets throw on a supercharger and a turbocharger. Make the compression 20:1, and yes, the entire engine will be forged from maraging steel alloy. I think this could put out an easy 600hp.

[SaltyDog]

I think Lexus would be afraid of bad publicity.  Look at all they're doing to appear environmentally conscious.  The same people who are putting hybrid enginesin their luxury cars probably won't also use V12s

[thesvtautox]

Lexus doesn't NEED a V12, $100k car. People who buy lexus's are people who want boring, dull, monotonous reliable luxury.

but what about those people who want v12 performance with reliability?  i know alot of people who buy lexus for the fact that they wont have to deal with electronic gremlin of german cars.  v12 lexus would address that issue but for those who want a v12

[850CSi]

but what about those people who want v12 performance with reliability?? i know alot of people who buy lexus for the fact that they wont have to deal with electronic gremlin of german cars.? v12 lexus would address that issue but for those who want a v12

Anyone who buys a Lexus that they plan on keeping for less than 5 years because of 'reliability' is an idiot - no matter what the latest issue of Consumer Reports tells you, almost all modern new cars are pretty damn reliable. And most people who buy these kinds of cars don't hold onto them for a very long time.

[sportyaccordy]

I still think it's a good idea. If one dude bought the Phaeton, 100 dudes will buy a V12 Lexus or Infiniti. Lexus kinda did themselves in with that hybrid BS (you really mean to tell me a hybrid can maintain its power flat out on a full tank of gas?), but the last Q was so unmemorable IMO Infiniti has a clean slate. With the momentum of the new G and M I think an available V12 in the new Q will really boost their profile.