Official Photos, Specs, Weight! of 2008 BMW M3 (Not Concept, Not Photoshops)

[850CSi]

Whatever it will be replaced with is none of my concern.? It will be when the specifications of that comes.?

So, I ran the numbers:
M3:? 8.41lbs/bhp
GT500:? 7.59lbs/bhp (according to the 3795lb number I found)

The GT500KR will have an even better power to weight ratio.?

So does that make the E92 M3 a better car than the E46?

[MexicoCityM3]

Whatever it will be replaced with is none of my concern.? It will be when the specifications of that comes.?

Are you playing dead? Your argument was based on calling a V8 in a small car an "abnormality". And you played up that the C55 and the GTO are "dead". LOL.

[Raza]

Are you playing dead? Your argument was based on calling a V8 in a small car an "abnormality". And you played up that the C55 and the GTO are "dead". LOL.

What are you talking about?

A V8 in a small car is an abnormality.  It's just a handful of cars.  V8s are usually in large cars, which puts them at a weight disadvantage because of their size.  So, the original question was whether or not the M3 was the lightest V8 car on sale.  It's not.  The Corvette is lighter (and cheaper). 

Then you added a trunk, four seats, and a decent interior.  The Corvette has a bigger trunk and a decent interior, but that's still not good enough for you. 

Then you changed it to better power to weight ratio.  So the GT500 and GT500KR have better power to weight ratios.  And they're both cheaper. 

But those aren't good enough for you either.

So, the M3 isn't good enough for me, since I don't like cars with any letter between K and P combined with a number between 2 and 5.

[goldenlover1101]

Well, I love it. Great specs with a good tranny and nice looking (- hood bulge). But for near 70k I would much rather have a Z06 hands down. Not even close. But this is an awesome car none the less.

[MexicoCityM3]

What are you talking about?

A V8 in a small car is an abnormality.? It's just a handful of cars.? V8s are usually in large cars, which puts them at a weight disadvantage because of their size.? So, the original question was whether or not the M3 was the lightest V8 car on sale.? It's not.? The Corvette is lighter (and cheaper).?

Frankly, its the standard for this class of car according to your own list.

Then you added a trunk, four seats, and a decent interior.? The Corvette has a bigger trunk and a decent interior, but that's still not good enough for you.?

Decent interior, whatever.

Then you changed it to better power to weight ratio.? So the GT500 and GT500KR have better power to weight ratios.? And they're both cheaper.?

But those aren't good enough for you either.

Damn right.

So, the M3 isn't good enough for me, since I don't like cars with any letter between K and P combined with a number between 2 and 5.

Ok, I get it. No argument then. Come out of the closet now.....slowly......the Roundel won't hurt you.....

[850CSi]

Ok, I get it. No argument then. Come out of the closet now.....slowly......the Roundel won't hurt you.....

Don't worry about him, if BMW made a car with 1000HP that weighed 2500 lbs, handled better than an Elise, and got 100MPG he'd still hate it. Apparently a BMW ran over his dog or something.

[mazda6er]

Don't worry about him, if BMW made a car with 1000HP that weighed 2500 lbs, handled better than an Elise, and got 100MPG he'd still hate it. Apparently a BMW ran over his dog or something.

My sister was raped by a BMW 318ti and I still love them.

[Raza]

Don't worry about him, if BMW made a car with 1000HP that weighed 2500 lbs, handled better than an Elise, and got 100MPG he'd still hate it. Apparently a BMW ran over his dog or something.

_{It's the drivers....}

[ro51092]

_{It's the drivers....}

I love how this guy wants a Mercedes.

[850CSi]

_{It's the drivers....}

If I ever see a Grey Passat with Pennsylvania plates, I'll make sure to drive like an ass. 

[mazda6er]

If I ever see a Grey Passat with Pennsylvania plates, I'll make sure to drive like an ass. 

He's bluffing, Raza! This man always drives like an ass!  :P

[Raza]

If I ever see a Grey Passat with Pennsylvania plates, I'll make sure to drive like an ass. 

Like you'll need to go out of your way...

[850CSi]

He's bluffing, Raza! This man always drives like an ass!? :P

I drive fast. I used to drive like an ass (Audi era). I know the difference. 

[MexicoCityM3]

I drive fast. I used to drive like an ass (Audi era). I know the difference.?

I drove like an ass till I got my first BMW. Now I drive fast. Remember one of countless C/D comparos won by the E46: "This car makes you a better driver." True. The car fixed me. Not!

[Lebowski]

Let me guess. You have never sat in one.

Yes, I've sat in one.  It's small, uncomfortable, and useless, like the back seats in virtually all 4-seat 2-doors.

... Have sat in it, have ridden it ...

Then how did you not notice the enormous hatch directly behind the driver and passenger?  You must be pretty observant.

[Lebowski]

Decent interior, whatever.

Define decent.? Because when I test drove one, I thought the E90 3-series interior was outclassed by everything in its class, including the bottom of the barrel ('06, pre-update) G35.

[MexicoCityM3]

Yes, I've sat in one.? It's small, uncomfortable, and useless, like the back seats in virtually all 4-seat 2-doors.

Let's see. I have driven with four friends and a full trunk tens of times to Acapulco, Veracruz, etc in the M3 and in previous E46s I had. Trips of hundreds of miles, no complaints. Either you are just too large or you don't know what you are talking about. Rear seat space in the E46/E92 coupes is within a few percent of the sedans. They all fit four normal adults ok. Even an E36 would work in a pinch.

The 3 series is a lot better than the 6 series, the 8 series, an Audi TT, a Porsche 911, etc, etc. regarding rear seat space. The 3 series rear seats are usable. For long trips.

[Raghavan]

E92, meh.
E90 all the way bishes.
Hopefully it won't weigh too much more than 3500 lbs.

[TBR]

I am with you Rag. Though I would probably buy a RS4 first anyway (I am sure the M3 will be the better car, but it's ugly imho).

[sandertheshark]

My sister was raped by a BMW 318ti and I still love them.

I learned a long time ago not to turn my back on one of those things.

[sandertheshark]

_{It's the drivers....}

Like Porsche drivers are any better.

[Raghavan]

I am with you Rag. Though I would probably buy a RS4 first anyway (I am sure the M3 will be the better car, but it's ugly imho).

E92 M3<RS4<RS5 (if there is one)<E90 M3 for me.

[565]

This is probably heresy to you M fans, but I have a hard time getting super excited about any of of the M cars from BMW.

My problem is that BMWs really make their greatest selling point with the balance of handling and comfort.  Alot of cars will outhandle BMW's, and alot of cars will be more comfortable, but few can manage both.

But once an otherwise well balanced BMW has been shotup with steriods by the M division, I believe the balance is so tipped towards performance that the original compromise has been lost.  I've driven a E90 BMW 325, and while I thought it was rather slow and a bit light in the controls, it felt like a completely coherent package.  I also drove a BMW E46 M3 a while back, and the experience wasn't as positive as I expected to be.  It was certainly decently fast and a competent handler, but the sacrifices made for that performance was too severe.  But don't simply take my word for it, this C&D review of the E46 M3 sums up my thoughts well.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/6568/the-middleweights-compact-adrenaline-delivery-systems-page3.html

"Unlike other BMWs, the M3 is never the silky, whirring machine. It?s raw in its engine noises, interior booms, gear whines, tire songs, and pipe-organ resonances. Raw and quite loud. Always the jock. And sometimes rude. We noticed an odd ?death rattle? from the engine room each time the ignition was switched off. And the bixenon headlights sound a bad-mannered grunt as they rotate through their alignment ritual on startup.

A hormone-injected 3-series BMW sounds as if it would be a frisky, flingable sportster. In fact, the M3 feels heavy and reserved. Steering effort increases very little as you bite into a turn. Some drivers read that as ?effort too low.? All agree that communication is a bit aloof. The M3 also needs more turning of the wheel than the others, so direction changes seem less eager. The clutch is a workout. Some of us complained mildly about the driving position; for example, the left-foot rest seems too close to the driver relative to the pedals.

The cloth bucket seat, with numerous mechanical adjusters including one for height, seemed rather stingy at the $50-thou mark, but it?s very effective at holding the driver in place when the scenery starts to blur. On the skidpad, grip topped all the others at 0.87 g. This car is reliable for its understeer, and it?s not at all twitchy as you probe for its limits. It always feels trusty, but hardly spirited.

Don?t expect the famous BMW ride. Few road cars are as stiff-legged as this. And the seat is alive with vibrations at interstate speeds."

Here is another review from Road and Track that pit an E46 M3 , a 350Z, a 911, and a C5 Z06 against each other.  Here is an interesting tidbit

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=469&page_number=4

"Even more surprising is that, among our foursome, the Z06 actually delivers the most compliant ride in daily driving conditions. Few doubted the Vette would trounce all comers at the racetrack, but would it also be the most comfortable?"

I would have expected that with it's luxury car underpinnings that the M3 would be the most comfortable, but it's just not the case.

I know these compliants are against the older generation M3, but at 70K this new M3 is now pushing towards 997 money.  I drove a 997 for the hell of it with a couple of buddies, and I have to say it was probably the best feeling sports car I've driven, and like the BMW 325, it felt like a coherent package.  I'm no fortune teller, but I'm willing to wager even if this new M3 is amazing, it won't match the incredible coherent feel that Porsche imbues it's 997 with.

My pick out of the 3 series lineup would have to be the 335i, a awesome blend of handling and comfort and effortless grunt from any RPM.  If I wanted more performance, I'd move up to the 997 for about 70K, and skip the M3 altogether.

Sorry M fans, I guess different strokes for different folks.

[MexicoCityM3]

This is probably heresy to you M fans, but I have a hard time getting super excited about any of of the M cars from BMW.

My problem is that BMWs really make their greatest selling point with the balance of handling and comfort.? Alot of cars will outhandle BMW's, and alot of cars will be more comfortable, but few can manage both.

But once an otherwise well balanced BMW has been shotup with steriods by the M division, I believe the balance is so tipped towards performance that the original compromise has been lost.? I've driven a E90 BMW 325, and while I thought it was rather slow and a bit light in the controls, it felt like a completely coherent package.? I also drove a BMW E46 M3 a while back, and the experience wasn't as positive as I expected to be.? It was certainly decently fast and a competent handler, but the sacrifices made for that performance was too severe.? But don't simply take my word for it, this C&D review of the E46 M3 sums up my thoughts well.

http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/6568/the-middleweights-compact-adrenaline-delivery-systems-page3.html

"Unlike other BMWs, the M3 is never the silky, whirring machine. It?s raw in its engine noises, interior booms, gear whines, tire songs, and pipe-organ resonances. Raw and quite loud. Always the jock. And sometimes rude. We noticed an odd ?death rattle? from the engine room each time the ignition was switched off. And the bixenon headlights sound a bad-mannered grunt as they rotate through their alignment ritual on startup.

A hormone-injected 3-series BMW sounds as if it would be a frisky, flingable sportster. In fact, the M3 feels heavy and reserved. Steering effort increases very little as you bite into a turn. Some drivers read that as ?effort too low.? All agree that communication is a bit aloof. The M3 also needs more turning of the wheel than the others, so direction changes seem less eager. The clutch is a workout. Some of us complained mildly about the driving position; for example, the left-foot rest seems too close to the driver relative to the pedals.

The cloth bucket seat, with numerous mechanical adjusters including one for height, seemed rather stingy at the $50-thou mark, but it?s very effective at holding the driver in place when the scenery starts to blur. On the skidpad, grip topped all the others at 0.87 g. This car is reliable for its understeer, and it?s not at all twitchy as you probe for its limits. It always feels trusty, but hardly spirited.

Don?t expect the famous BMW ride. Few road cars are as stiff-legged as this. And the seat is alive with vibrations at interstate speeds."

Here is another review from Road and Track that pit an E46 M3 , a 350Z, a 911, and a C5 Z06 against each other.? Here is an interesting tidbit

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=469&page_number=4

"Even more surprising is that, among our foursome, the Z06 actually delivers the most compliant ride in daily driving conditions. Few doubted the Vette would trounce all comers at the racetrack, but would it also be the most comfortable?"

I would have expected that with it's luxury car underpinnings that the M3 would be the most comfortable, but it's just not the case.

I know these compliants are against the older generation M3, but at 70K this new M3 is now pushing towards 997 money.? I drove a 997 for the hell of it with a couple of buddies, and I have to say it was probably the best feeling sports car I've driven, and like the BMW 325, it felt like a coherent package.? I'm no fortune teller, but I'm willing to wager even if this new M3 is amazing, it won't match the incredible coherent feel that Porsche imbues it's 997 with.

My pick out of the 3 series lineup would have to be the 335i, a awesome blend of handling and comfort and effortless grunt from any RPM.? If I wanted more performance, I'd move up to the 997 for about 70K, and skip the M3 altogether.

Sorry M fans, I guess different strokes for different folks.

Nothing to be sorry about, like you said, different strokes for different folks.

I don't find the ride in my M3 uncomfortable at all. Maybe because I am used to the MINI which I drive daily and has the suspension stiffness of a toy sled. The only Vette I have actually ridden in was an old 80's model which was stiff as hell, so I can't compare that to any current Vettes. I sat in a new Z06 at a recent auto show only and didn't like the interior but in any case I understand that car is about all out monster performance and bang for the buck. God knows they pass me at the track as if I were parked.

The E46 M3 suspension was revised for all M3s when the '05 Competition Package came out. Its little known that '05s and '06s have a slightly higher ride height. The suspension is a bit smoother and also shows less understeer but maybe has lower absolute limits than pre-05 M3s (which featured in the tests you mention). C/D later ran a mini test of a newer M3 (they were testing tires or something like that) and said the M3 they got handled "much better than they remembered". They were clueless that the suspension had been revised by then, though.

I moved from an '00 328Ci to an '05 M3 and I can tell you there is absolutely nothing I miss from the 328. The M3's ride is marginally harder and everything else is just so much better.

Regarding the comparisons with the 997, I believe BMW positions the M3 to be competitive with a base 911 when it comes out. The E46 was in some ways (like acceleration) a better performer than a base 996 Carrera when it came out in '01. The E92 should beat a 997 Carrera and run with a 997S, maybe a bit faster. The M3 is about offering 95% of the performance and feel of a 911 with 4 seats and at a lower price point. A 997 will quickly get higher in price once you start optioning it out.

Regarding ultimate feel, the Porsche is where its at, but the M3 fends for itself quite well. The M3 might be easier even to get in and drive very fast. It is truly user friendly and a monster at power sliding under control.

Here the M3 will cost a bit less than a base 997 Carrera and a lot less than a 997S. At that price point, I think the M3 is a good deal and a very good total package.

[LonghornTX]

Nothing to be sorry about, like you said, different strokes for different folks.

I don't find the ride in my M3 uncomfortable at all. Maybe because I am used to the MINI which I drive daily and has the suspension stiffness of a toy sled. The only Vette I have actually ridden in was an old 80's model which was stiff as hell, so I can't compare that to any current Vettes. I sat in a new Z06 at a recent auto show only and didn't like the interior but in any case I understand that car is about all out monster performance and bang for the buck. God knows they pass me at the track as if I were parked.

The E46 M3 suspension was revised for all M3s when the '05 Competition Package came out. Its little known that '05s and '06s have a slightly higher ride height. The suspension is a bit smoother and also shows less understeer but maybe has lower absolute limits than pre-05 M3s (which featured in the tests you mention). C/D later ran a mini test of a newer M3 (they were testing tires or something like that) and said the M3 they got handled "much better than they remembered". They were clueless that the suspension had been revised by then, though.

I moved from an '00 328Ci to an '05 M3 and I can tell you there is absolutely nothing I miss from the 328. The M3's ride is marginally harder and everything else is just so much better.

Regarding the comparisons with the 997, I believe BMW positions the M3 to be competitive with a base 911 when it comes out. The E46 was in some ways (like acceleration) a better performer than a base 996 Carrera when it came out in '01. The E92 should beat a 997 Carrera and run with a 997S, maybe a bit faster. The M3 is about offering 95% of the performance and feel of a 911 with 4 seats and at a lower price point. A 997 will quickly get higher in price once you start optioning it out.

Regarding ultimate feel, the Porsche is where its at, but the M3 fends for itself quite well. The M3 might be easier even to get in and drive very fast. It is truly user friendly and a monster at power sliding under control.

Here the M3 will cost a bit less than a base 997 Carrera and a lot less than a 997S. At that price point, I think the M3 is a good deal and a very good total package.

I feel similarly.  The one thing people don't realize is that the M3 (and thus also the rest of the 3 series coupe range) can fit two people comfortably in the back, provided they are not taller than 6'0.  This is possible in the E46 and the E92 is only larger in the back. That is not possible in any of the vehicles mentioned so far.  997?  No way.  C6 ZO6? Nope.  True, in the end it will be outperformed on the track by the ZO6 and it may only match the 997/997S performance wise.  But it also has a nicer interior than the ZO6 IMO (at least the regular E92, I assume so for the M3) and provides a viable alternative to the current Porsche models.

[850CSi]

Define decent.? Because when I test drove one, I thought the E90 3-series interior was outclassed by everything in its class, including the bottom of the barrel ('06, pre-update) G35.

Okay, I'm biased, but that's a defenite 

[850CSi]

E92, meh.
E90 all the way bishes.
Hopefully it won't weigh too much more than 3500 lbs.

The E90 should be lighter than the E92 (based on the fact that an E90 328i is slightly lighter than its E92 variant)

[Raghavan]

Sweet!

[the Teuton]

Damn straight.? I'd be lying if I said I'm perfectly comfortable in my own back seat, but it's fine for short trips.? I can think of a lot of four-door compacts that are much worse.

By no means will I ever call the back of a 3er great, but I have sat in the back of E21s, E30s, and E36s, all coupes, and I think the room is enough for me and I'm a fairly big 5'7".  My knees didn't even hit the back of the seat in the E30, but they did in the E36.  I think the 46 and 92 probably are better yet.

[Raza]

The E90 should be lighter than the E92 (based on the fact that an E90 328i is slightly lighter than its E92 variant)

Really? 


Now that's interesting.  That's something I could get behind, possibly.