What type of strut tower brace is better?

[Secret Chimp]

I think I'd like to get a front strut tower brace as my next car upgrade, as I hope it'd help my car's turn-in response and steering feel a little. The most common seem to be the simple beam that links the two towers together, but I've also seen ones that link each tower individually to some place at the center of the top of the firewall. I've heard "one piece>multi-piece," but it seems like the ones that look like / \ would be better, as they'd brace against against yawing deflections of the strut towers better, but then again there's no direct tower-to-tower link to quell "bobbling" deflections.
Basically I've been attempting to imagine the minute physics of that tower braces are meant to correct and I can't figure out what to do. Or if I should buy an anti-roll bar set instead for the fantastic triumph over understeer.

[Eye of the Tiger]

As far as strut tower braces go, I'd say the welded one-piece = fairly rigid, while the universal type 3-piece bolt together type = not so rigid.

Now for a huge gripe of mine: For some reason it gets in people's heads that they want to choose between a "strut tower brace" and a "sway bar". I can speculate that the reason this occurs is because they are both "bars" that run across the width of the car. That, however, is the only thing they have in common.

My advice to you is not to waste your money on a strut tower brace unless there is some glaring defect in your car that you are trying to correct. If you really want a stiff chassis, build a full roll cage.

If you want to combat understeer, get a big rear sway-bar, or if you wish, disconnecting the endlinks on the front sway-bar is a good temporoary fix for the occasional autox or rallyx.

[Soup DeVille]

It would be silly to put a strut tower brace on a car that doesn't have struts, wouldn't it?

[Eye of the Tiger]

It would be silly to put a strut tower brace on a car that doesn't have struts, wouldn't it?

+1 

[Secret Chimp]

Now for a huge gripe of mine: For some reason it gets in people's heads that they want to choose between a "strut tower brace" and a "sway bar". I can speculate that the reason this occurs is because they are both "bars" that run across the width of the car. That, however, is the only thing they have in common.

I know what each one does, the fact that they're both relatively simple upgrades is why I'm considering them, not because they're both "bars." I has the gnawlidge.

[Soup DeVille]

I know what each one does, the fact that they're both relatively simple upgrades is why I'm considering them, not because they're both "bars." I has the gnawlidge.

Then don't put a strut tower brace on a car with a wishbone front suspension. Strut braces work because in a macStrut front end, the strut is what's keeping the tires upright and controlling the camber. Ths are just shock towers on your accord: they just hold the shock, not the whole works: and shock location is not nearly as critical

You want to increase your turn in response? Replace the lower control arm bushings with something harder: either the poly stuff from energy suspensions or aluminum bushings (you'll have to make those). Lower the steering rack to square up the tie-rods to each other.

And buy good tires: without good tires nothing else matters much.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Now Mr. Chimp, let's see if I can't address the issues you mentioned:

Better turn-in response and steering feel can be fixed by:
-tires with a stiffer or shorter sidewall
-adjust the front for as much caster as you can if that's even possible
-adjust for slightly more toe-out in the front and zero toe in the rear (but it may also decrease straight-line stability
-stiffer springs will do wonders, but then you need...
...stiffer shocks, adjustible is best, then you can really fine-tune your handling

But I'd start with a larger rear sway bar, it'll do wonders in fixing that pesky understeer and keeping your inside front wheel from spinning while accelerating through turns. They shouldn't cost much more than your "strut bar", or be any harder to install.

[Soup DeVille]

Now Mr. Chimp, let's see if I can't address the issues you mentioned:

Better turn-in response and steering feel can be fixed by:
-tires with a stiffer or shorter sidewall
-adjust the front for as much caster as you can if that's even possible
-adjust for slightly more toe-out in the front and zero toe in the rear (but it may also decrease straight-line stability
-stiffer springs will do wonders, but then you need...
...stiffer shocks, adjustible is best, then you can really fine-tune your handling

But I'd start with a larger rear sway bar, it'll do wonders in fixing that pesky understeer and keeping your inside front wheel from spinning while accelerating through turns. They shouldn't cost much more than your "strut bar", or be any harder to install.

These are better and easier suggestions than mine.

[Eye of the Tiger]

These are better and easier suggestions than mine.

I like yours too... aluminum control arm bushings!! that would be great on a street car 

[Soup DeVille]

I like yours too... aluminum control arm bushings!! that would be great on a street car?

Ehhh, its not as bad as you'd think...

[Champ]

I'll echo what Soup and NA are saying, stiffening up the front is a bad idea without stiffening up the back first!

If you want better turn in, like NA said get your alignment changed and tell them you want faster response.

[Secret Chimp]

I think Energy poly bushings might be a good upgrade. I can get a complete set for my car for around $100, which is less than springs or roll bars or whatever. As for tires, I'm planning on getting some Potenza G009's once I wear out these lame-o whatever-they-ares, maybe with a slightly shorter sidewall, but that's a ways off. If I can find 16 inch steelies or some other cheap upsize option I'll go for that.

[SaltyDog]

Subframe connectors ftw.

[Secret Chimp]

Subframe connectors ftw.

Eh?

[sportyaccordy]

For your car, the Neuspeed 4 point brace does wonders. I will definitely be getting one for my car this summer. The other ones are kind of a waste.

[Eye of the Tiger]

And I say instead of buying one of those fancy braces, just weld a bunch of steel I-beams all over the place. That'll stiffer her up.

[r0tor]

Then don't put a strut tower brace on a car with a wishbone front suspension.

my car has double wishbones and a bar over the shock towers from factory.. and an mazdaspeed version that connects to the brake master cylinder for better brake feel

thats not saying that i truely believe any modern day car has a floppy enough chassis that a street driven car will show an noticeable gains in anything....

[sportyaccordy]

my car has double wishbones and a bar over the shock towers from factory.. and an mazdaspeed version that connects to the brake master cylinder for better brake feel

thats not saying that i truely believe any modern day car has a floppy enough chassis that a street driven car will show an noticeable gains in anything....

It makes a huge difference on a wobbly car. It helps maintain suspension geometry and minimizes chassis flex under stress. It could be argued that it helps ride quality as it would help minimize chassis 'stretching' over bumps.

[r0tor]

It makes a huge difference on a wobbly car. It helps maintain suspension geometry and minimizes chassis flex under stress. It could be argued that it helps ride quality as it would help minimize chassis 'stretching' over bumps.

in the grand scheme of things.... the springs, swaybays, tires, and suspension bushings flex way more then the chassis will ever flex.  IMO, only by eliminating those first will you start to truely see a noticeable difference with tower bars.

Its like trying to stiffen a 8 foot long 2x4 by adding popsicle sticks instead of just adding another 2x4...

[sportyaccordy]

in the grand scheme of things.... the springs, swaybays, tires, and suspension bushings flex way more then the chassis will ever flex. IMO, only by eliminating those first will you start to truely see a noticeable difference with tower bars.

Its like trying to stiffen a 8 foot long 2x4 by adding popsicle sticks instead of just adding another 2x4...

I dunno... I've heard nothing but good things about the Neuspeed bar. Without the strut tower bar, the front end of my car is essentially a very strong U looking through the front/back axis. With the strut bar it becomes a strong box.

[r0tor]

I dunno... I've heard nothing but good things about the Neuspeed bar. Without the strut tower bar, the front end of my car is essentially a very strong U looking through the front/back axis. With the strut bar it becomes a strong box.

in most cases, the strutbar is only a few inches from the firewall and the structural member in that

[ArchBishop]

As far as strut tower braces go, I'd say the welded one-piece = fairly rigid, while the universal type 3-piece bolt together type = not so rigid.

Now for a huge gripe of mine: For some reason it gets in people's heads that they want to choose between a "strut tower brace" and a "sway bar". I can speculate that the reason this occurs is because they are both "bars" that run across the width of the car. That, however, is the only thing they have in common.

My advice to you is not to waste your money on a strut tower brace unless there is some glaring defect in your car that you are trying to correct. If you really want a stiff chassis, build a full roll cage.

If you want to combat understeer, get a big rear sway-bar, or if you wish, disconnecting the endlinks on the front sway-bar is a good temporoary fix for the occasional autox or rallyx.

NO. Having a good strut tower brace will help in correcting corner entry understeer, and turn in responce. It helped in my car. But yes, the rear sway abr did add some oversteer, and made my car more enjoyable.

[ArchBishop]

I think Energy poly bushings might be a good upgrade. I can get a complete set for my car for around $100, which is less than springs or roll bars or whatever. As for tires, I'm planning on getting some Potenza G009's once I wear out these lame-o whatever-they-ares, maybe with a slightly shorter sidewall, but that's a ways off. If I can find 16 inch steelies or some other cheap upsize option I'll go for that.

It seems nice until you price it out to be installed.

[Secret Chimp]

It seems nice until you price it out to be installed.

Captain Obvious has arrived.

[ArchBishop]

I think Energy poly bushings might be a good upgrade. I can get a complete set for my car for around $100, which is less than springs or roll bars or whatever. As for tires, I'm planning on getting some Potenza G009's once I wear out these lame-o whatever-they-ares, maybe with a slightly shorter sidewall, but that's a ways off. If I can find 16 inch steelies or some other cheap upsize option I'll go for that.

Captain Obvious has arrived.

Indeed, he has.

[The Pirate]

It seems nice until you price it out to be installed.

My guess is Secret Chimp will be doing the install himself (as would I).

[ArchBishop]

My guess is Secret Chimp will be doing the install himself (as would I).

I hada  friend who did it himself on his E36 3series. He told me it was 3 hours of cursing, bruised knuckles and sweat. Doesn't sound fun.

[Secret Chimp]

Most of the jobs I start on my car take longer than I expect. But it's free. I'll pay some guy an extra 10-15 bucks over what it would cost to do an oil change myself if I don't feel like spending the time, but I'm not spending hundreds on labor when it's something I can do myself (brakes, ignition wires and plugs, valve cover and tube gaskets - free free free free, probably over $400 in labor right there)

[The Pirate]

I hada  friend who did it himself on his E36 3series. He told me it was 3 hours of cursing, bruised knuckles and sweat. Doesn't sound fun.

Yeah, it often takes me lots of time, and a little bloodshed when I tackle a quasi-major job on my car; but like Secret Chimp said, it's all worth it if I save some labor money, and learn some stuff as well.


It's an excuse to suck down a couple of brews as well.

[Champ]

I paid $350 to get my suspension installed (no alignment) and I was pretty happy after I did it.  He said the rears and passenger front when in pretty easy, but the driver front took him and another guy, one with a torch and him with a 5' breaker bar trying to unscrew the top of the stock suspension it was rusted so badly.  Said it took him about 3 hours total to do it all, I think it would have taken me several weekends.