Mid-size Lux Sedans

[omicron]

On the record, I have seen relatively more criticism from Australian motoring publications regarding the handling of a B7 A4 than an Accord Euro. Of course, what any given magazine tester feels is different to what any given buyer would feel, but in general, the consensus seems to be that the just-replaced C and current 3 offer a superior ride/handling compromise.

Again, on the record, I haven't driven any of those three, so I can only go on what I read.

[93JC]

Saab pwns j00 all. 9-3 FTW.

[ro51092]

Pshh, I don't want a Chevy Malibu. 

BMW FTW.

[Champ]

I didn't read much through the last 3 pages that I missed while I was gone tonight (!) but you guys are funny asking why you would "spend money to upgrade an Altima."  You guys are the same ones who just congratulated someone for buying an old Accord with a Prelude engine swapped in.  You guys are the same ones who come to a car enthusiast forum to discuss car topics.  I can only assume you guys would hate on someone who tried to modify a VW and tell them "hey why didn't you just buy a S4 from the beginning."

To the people who had their parents buy you a car and are nagging on him for upgrading an Altima, please don't talk until you bought your own car and then decided you wanted to get some more performance out of it.  It's not easy to just swap cars around because one is easier to tune than another.  So what he bought an Altima at one time, a fine choice.  Then he decided he could make it go a little better, why heckle him over it?

*edit*
P.S. I have no comment about him giving opinions about cars he has not driven, that's his own deal.  But you guys don't need to heckle him on upgrading his car, that is childish.

[TheIntrepid]

Somehow I feel that this guy may be a Jake Miller to push all our buttons.

[Catman]

Well, it doesn't help that everyone lets their buttons be pushed.  And, to be honest, I'm a little tired of the baiting.  If someone is annoying than ignore them.  The fact that someone actually enjoys modding a certain car that you may not agree with certainly isn't cause to question their judgement.  Not everyone thinks the same.  It's all what you like not everyone else.  Who cares?

[ChrisV]

Modding any car is a money pit. Whenever you do any sort of Modification, you are going to drop the value of your car.

Not true, especially on older cars. I made money on my modded Porsches, I made money on my modded RX7, as well as modded VWs and modded mini trucks. I didn't make money on cars I left completely stock, but I got the enjoyment of owning them, much like any other hobby. The only exception is my Fiat spider, as a restoration it's worth more than I have into it, and it's increasing in value annually.

You will never get back the added value of the thousands (yes, that?s how much it would cost to do the same for any other car).

Again, not necessarily true.

Plus there's the added benefit of it being a HOBBY that you enjoy doing. How many hobbies can you get money back on? How many vacations have you taken that made you money (and don't say Vegas because we'll know you're lying). But even on some new cars, the right mods can increase the value, maybe not by as much as the mods, but enough to see a better return than spending that money on going to a nice restaurant or going to Six Flags.

Quit being an imbecile.

You are spouting ignorant opinions as though they are facts. I don't give two shits if this is offensive to you, as your ignorance and idiocy is offensive to not only myself, bit to other adults on this forum (like saxonyron as an example). You keep proving you are an immature twit, who does NOT deserve to be listened to. yeah, it's starting to not only sound like C&D, but like every other automotive board populated by opinionated teenagers.

[ChrisV]

Well, it doesn't help that everyone lets their buttons be pushed.  And, to be honest, I'm a little tired of the baiting.  If someone is annoying than ignore them.  The fact that someone actually enjoys modding a certain car that you may not agree with certainly isn't cause to question their judgement.  Not everyone thinks the same.  It's all what you like not everyone else.  Who cares?

Those of us who care about spreading real automotive knowledge care. And we're tired of people coming onto automotive forums acting like ignorant teenagers with hard-wired opinions that are spouted off as insulting facts. He doesn't simply have a preference, he has to insult everything that isn't his favorite, thus insulting people like saxonyron who enjoy the cars he's insulting. Ignoring that does not make it go away, it in fact encourages it. As it has on every automotive board populated by people like him.

[L. ed foote]

Besides having the ultimate sleeper, i have no idea.

I could think of other cars that would fit the bill of "ultimate sleeper" (some of the V8 Volvos you see out there, for instance) but to each their own

[Raza]

I could think of other cars that would fit the bill of "ultimate sleeper" (some of the V8 Volvos you see out there, for instance) but to each their own

I've always wanted to see someone twin supercharge a Passat W8.

[850CSi]

To the people who had their parents buy you a car and are nagging on him for upgrading an Altima, please don't talk until you bought your own car and then decided you wanted to get some more performance out of it.? It's not easy to just swap cars around because one is easier to tune than another.? So what he bought an Altima at one time, a fine choice.? Then he decided he could make it go a little better, why heckle him over it?

Look at the list, that's more than $10K!

[TheIntrepid]

To the people who had their parents buy you a car and are nagging on him for upgrading an Altima, please don't talk until you bought your own car and then decided you wanted to get some more performance out of it.  It's not easy to just swap cars around because one is easier to tune than another.  So what he bought an Altima at one time, a fine choice.  Then he decided he could make it go a little better, why heckle him over it?

I bought my own car... a 4-cylinder 1999 Camry. When I decided I want better performance out of it, I traded it for the Intrepid. Now I'm tired of that, so I'm upgrading to a turbocharged Audi. I think I could have easily gotten more performance out of my Camry or my Intrepid, but it's IMPRACTICAL to do so, when I can trade the car and get better performance for LESS MONEY. Am I correct?

[Catman]

Those of us who care about spreading real automotive knowledge care. And we're tired of people coming onto automotive forums acting like ignorant teenagers with hard-wired opinions that are spouted off as insulting facts. He doesn't simply have a preference, he has to insult everything that isn't his favorite, thus insulting people like saxonyron who enjoy the cars he's insulting. Ignoring that does not make it go away, it in fact encourages it. As it has on every automotive board populated by people like him.

Chris, my point was directly to those who feel he is foolish to mod an Altima.  Why should we care if he mods an Altima if that's what he likes?  That out of the way, I agree with your other points and that is precisely why he is not here for 24 hrs.  He can choose to calm down or he'll be gone.  Very simple.

[TheIntrepid]

to the mods, especially Greg!

[SJ_GTI]

Wow, a lot of dissing of the A4.

As a former owner of a B6 A4 1.8T Quattro 6MT, I think its a great car. Overall, I would say that my A4 was actually a better car than my GTI, even considering the much better engine of the GTI.

In regards to the B6 vs B7, from personal experience I don't think the difference is that big of a deal. Sure the engine is a nice upgrade, but the overall driving experience is pretty much the same (and yes, I had the sport package). Considering that for ~600 bucks you could chip a 1.8T to walk all over a stock 2.0T I don't think the difference there is all that worth getting excited over either (and yes, I realize you can also chip a 2.0T...but if you were "upgrading" to a new B7 from a B6 it would never be worth it based on the engine alone, its far simpler to just upgrade the engine itself).

My two favorite cars in this class are the 3er and A4, though for slightly different reasons. I would also rate the Lexus IS above the G35 as far as sport sedans that I like (I just wish you would get the 3.5L Lexus with a stick!).

[850CSi]

Perhaps he was talking about the B5. It's still a good car, though IMO (but I'm biased).

[SJ_GTI]

PS. R&T did a comparison of AWD Sport Sedans. Track Times were as follows:

Legacy GT spec.B: 54.9
A4 2.0T S-Line*: 55.2
325xi: 56.0
G35x: 56.2
S40 T5: 56.3
Mazdaspeed6: 56.7 [FBC...what happened?!?]
IS250: 56.8

*Note that S-Line Package is just the sport suspension with nicer wheels and an appearance package, nothing to do with any actual S4 parts.

edit: here's a link to the review:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=3280

[850CSi]

Wow, it beat the G35x and 325xi??

[the Teuton]

I bought my own car... a 4-cylinder 1999 Camry. When I decided I want better performance out of it, I traded it for the Intrepid. Now I'm tired of that, so I'm upgrading to a turbocharged Audi. I think I could have easily gotten more performance out of my Camry or my Intrepid, but it's IMPRACTICAL to do so, when I can trade the car and get better performance for LESS MONEY. Am I correct?

That makes sense.  For me, it would be about $1,500-4,000+ over a fairly spread out amount of time and I have an emotional attachment versus $7,000 minimum for a 2.5 RS coupe, which isn't nearly as practical for me, as a wagon owner and it's actually 200 lbs. heavier than my car.  Sometimes it makes sense to upgrade your whip and sometimes it just makes more sense to dump money into what you have.  If the company didn't make what you wanted at a price you can afford at the moment, sometimes the best option is to build what you want.

[SJ_GTI]

Wow, it beat the G35??

In AWD form the G35 is hampered by an Automatic and summer tires. Same with the Lexus.

The goal was an AWD sport sedan test. I am sure the G35 could beat the A4 with summer tires and a manual, but its not like the A4 is embarrasing itself. If you want AWD (otherwise why buy an Audi?) the A4 is one of the best sport sedans on the market IMHO. If you want 2WD (front or back) I'd say the 3er or G35 are tops.

[the Teuton]

PS. R&T did a comparison of AWD Sport Sedans. Track Times were as follows:

Legacy GT spec.B: 54.9
A4 2.0T S-Line*: 55.2
325xi: 56.0
G35x: 56.2
S40 T5: 56.3
Mazdaspeed6: 56.7 [FBC...what happened?!?]
IS250: 56.8

*Note that S-Line Package is just the sport suspension with nicer wheels and an appearance package, nothing to do with any actual S4 parts.

Subaru FTW!  In terms of refinement, I wonder how it stacks up, though.

[SJ_GTI]

Subaru FTW!? In terms of refinement, I wonder how it stacks up, though.

A4 FTW!

Overall the A4 was their favorite, Subaru was the best considering price.

[Catman]

PS. R&T did a comparison of AWD Sport Sedans. Track Times were as follows:

Legacy GT spec.B: 54.9
A4 2.0T S-Line*: 55.2
325xi: 56.0
G35x: 56.2
S40 T5: 56.3
Mazdaspeed6: 56.7 [FBC...what happened?!?]
IS250: 56.8

*Note that S-Line Package is just the sport suspension with nicer wheels and an appearance package, nothing to do with any actual S4 parts.

edit: here's a link to the review:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=3280

Thanks for that link!

[ChrisV]

Chris, my point was directly to those who feel he is foolish to mod an Altima.  Why should we care if he mods an Altima if that's what he likes?  That out of the way, I agree with your other points and that is precisely why he is not here for 24 hrs.  He can choose to calm down or he'll be gone.  Very simple.

Cool. Thank you for your moderation, and to all the mods here.

[FlatBlackCaddy]

PS. R&T did a comparison of AWD Sport Sedans. Track Times were as follows:

Legacy GT spec.B: 54.9
A4 2.0T S-Line*: 55.2
325xi: 56.0
G35x: 56.2
S40 T5: 56.3
Mazdaspeed6: 56.7 [FBC...what happened?!?]
IS250: 56.8

*Note that S-Line Package is just the sport suspension with nicer wheels and an appearance package, nothing to do with any actual S4 parts.

edit: here's a link to the review:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=31&article_id=3280

I don't know, never read the review. After driving my speed6 for a few months i can see that the car is very picky about fuel. You need to run atleast 93 octane in it, i run 92 in it and the occasional bottle of booster. Otherwise i have experienced a few moments of boost levels dropping coming down a freeway ramp even with 92 in it on a 70 degree day. I'm sure mazda will come out with a new flash sooner or later.

[850CSi]

A4 FTW!

Overall the A4 was their favorite, Subaru was the best considering price.

The Legacy isn't really in the same class, IMO. The Audi has an infinitely nicer interior and probably a more refined drive.

[Raza]

The Legacy isn't really in the same class, IMO. The Audi has an infinitely nicer interior and probably a more refined drive.

But it's also significantly more expensive.  It is very much the case of you get what you pay for, when it comes to the interior and refinement, however.  It's your choice to decide whether or not the extra expense is worth it.  To me, the Legacy is just too big a car, and I'd be happy with a WRX Limited.

[Catman]

Hmm, too bad that test included the old G35x.

[saxonyron]

PS. R&T did a comparison of AWD Sport Sedans. Track Times were as follows:

Legacy GT spec.B: 54.9
A4 2.0T S-Line*: 55.2
325xi: 56.0
G35x: 56.2
S40 T5: 56.3
Mazdaspeed6: 56.7 [FBC...what happened?!?]
IS250: 56.8

*Note that S-Line Package is just the sport suspension with nicer wheels and an appearance package, nothing to do with any actual S4 parts.

  Thanks for the results there, SJ GTI!  I missed that review, but it sure is nice to see the A4 doing so well.  Kind of validates the smile on my face whenever I drive my car. 

[MidnightDave]

I find Archie entertaining, not for his posts, I quit reading them early on, couldn't deal with the spelling and grammar, rather for your replies!

You do have good mod's on this forum, I wish they all did. Some are too quick with ban sauce, others don't know how to apply it.

I put a rear sway bar on my MINI to take out the understeer the factory left in, and believe me, not all mod's are stupid or expensive, the Invidia exhaust I'm putting on as soon as it gets here, okay that may be expensive and stupid, (might sound like rice, $699 delivered).

They shouldn't have put a whimpering 250 in that pack of wolves, of course they beat it around like a pup--where's the 350, and as somebody else said, where's the third pedal in a 350! Paddle shifters are a novelty that wear off quick--and btw, I know, I own the car. ;-)

Keep up the good work, all, defending your marques, posting facts I'm too lazy to research, and making for interesting reading...