Tundra is Cheap as Hell!

[Onslaught]

I finished working on the truck today and took it for a drive. I think it's a very nice truck and is fast as hell. It's a little too large for anything I would need and I would get a Tacoma.
I do think the front grille is a little ugly and I don't like the tail lights very much. But I can find things I don't like about all the big trucks out now.  The interior is very nice and comfortable. And it's put together well from what I've seen. The rear bumper is the heaviest mother ****** I've ever taken off.

[Atomic]

I finished working on the truck today and took it for a drive. I think it's a very nice truck and is fast as hell. It's a little too large for anything I would need and I would get a Tacoma.
I do think the front grille is a little ugly and I don't like the tail lights very much. But I can find things I don't like about all the big trucks out now.? The interior is very nice and comfortable. And it's put together well from what I've seen. The rear bumper is the heaviest mother ****** I've ever taken off.

agreed. a pretty good bargain, too. the front end? yes. it's scary, but then again, it's a truck, eh?! the philosophy has worked wonders for dodge. i'd want my mighty pick-up to to intimidate  !!!

[SVT666]

agreed. a pretty good bargain, too.

a bargain?  HaHaHa That's a good one.

[Atomic]

a bargain?? HaHaHa That's a good one.

it all depends on one's frame of reference. this vehicle's content makes it a bargain, imo. ford vs. chevy/gmc vs. dodge vs. nissan vs. toyota vs. honda (ridgeline) -- it boils down to personal tastes  !

[SVT666]

it all depends on one's frame of reference. this vehicle's content makes it a bargain, imo. ford vs. chevy/gmc vs. dodge vs. nissan vs. toyota vs. honda (ridgeline) -- it boils down to personal tastes? !

To a degree that's true, however the difference in price between all these trucks (excluding the Ridgeline because it's not a full size) is about $7K (in Canada) from the cheapest (Ram) to the most expensive (Tundra). 

[VetteZ06]

I got to look at all of the big trucks today at the auto show. The Tundra was absolutely horrendous, much worse than I ever would've expected. It's as if Toyota really didn't care how well the interior was pieced together. The seats weren't as comfortable as I had been led to believe, and overall I was sorely disappointed in Toyota's effort. This is not going to cut it.

On the flip side, the GM trucks impressed me very much. The Silverado's front end is still not the best-looking face to grace a pickup truck, but the Sierra looks awesome. The interiors (work truck and luxury versions) are both very nice, and after sitting in a Sierra outfitted with the luxury interior I honestly did not feel like I was in a pickup truck anymore. That could be a bad thing for some people, but I really liked it. Infinitely better than what I experienced with the Tundra.

[ifcar]

The Tundra is like the Dodge Ram in that sitting in it is unlikely to impress. There was definitely more effort put into the engineering than the aesthetics (and some of the engineering effort is decidedly misplaced), which is unlikely to lead to a positive first impression.

The Silverado/Sierra have a much better first impression and are designed to perform day-to-day tasks much better than the Tundra, which is where the sales are even without the brand loyalty.

[Raghavan]

I would've rather seen Toyota spend more money on quality and design rather than a huge engine.

[Catman]

I would've rather seen Toyota spend more money on quality and design rather than a huge engine.

I agree.  I don't complain about my "underpowered" Sequoia.

[rjm]

I'm with Catman on this one.  While the exterior styling is growing on me, the interior is just....yuck.  I'm not a truck person, but still the Tundra was one of my first stops at NAIAS after all the press Toyota had delivered (read: pushed down our throats).  I sampled a fully optioned CrewMax Limited, and while I found the interior to be roomy, the only nice thing I can say is that the leather on the seats seemed to be of good quality.  Otherwise, the level of cheapness was staggering, especially for a Toyota. The interior plastics is something I would've expected from GM or Ford, not Toyota.   I know this is designed to be primarily a work truck, but I'm being honest when I say that the door armrest actually buckled when I put my hand on it to climb out of the truck.  And I'm an average sized guy!

If this had come from any manufacturer besides Toyota, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.  But since it is Toyota, well.....

[SVT666]

If this had come from any manufacturer besides Toyota, I wouldn't be the least bit surprised.? But since it is Toyota, well.....

Toyota is not the end all and be all of the automotive world.  The F-150 and Chevy Silverado both have far superior interior plastics to the Tundra.

[TheIntrepid]

Toyota is not the end all and be all of the automotive world.  The F-150 and Chevy Silverado both have far superior interior plastics to the Tundra.

No, but he does have a point. Toyota has a reputation to hold about build quality. If they screw up such as they have here, it's surprising. Of course, I have lately been very surprised at the lack of build quality on recent Toyotas. Our 07 Camry has had more interior plastics break than any other Camry we've owned. I've also looked at a Matrix, and those things feel like they are made of plastic.

Personally, I think that Toyota's let their good reputation get to their heads and are letting things slide.

[SVT666]

No, but he does have a point. Toyota has a reputation to hold about build quality. If they screw up such as they have here, it's surprising. Of course, I have lately been very surprised at the lack of build quality on recent Toyotas. Our 07 Camry has had more interior plastics break than any other Camry we've owned. I've also looked at a Matrix, and those things feel like they are made of plastic.

Personally, I think that Toyota's let their good reputation get to their heads and are letting things slide.

The Corolla we rented for a month had a shit interior too.  The last Focus I drove had a better interior.

[TheIntrepid]

I agree. You should know however that my '99 Camry was flawless, build-quality-wise. It was bland and boring, but amazingly well put-together. Now, having sold it to my cousin, my cousin bashes it into something all the time; it has a messed up front bumper, a headlight out, and a dented-in left side, but the thing has NO rattles or anything on the inside. It just keeps on going.

[GoCougs]

Wow, some of you sure are trying hard...

[omicron]

I agree. You should know however that my '99 Camry was flawless, build-quality-wise. It was bland and boring, but amazingly well put-together. Now, having sold it to my cousin, my cousin bashes it into something all the time; it has a messed up front bumper, a headlight out, and a dented-in left side, but the thing has NO rattles or anything on the inside. It just keeps on going.

A seeing-to from Raza's shovel ought to see to that.

[Catman]

Wow, some of you sure are trying hard...

I own a Toyota and I'm telling you that Toyota's materials quality is going down the tubes. 

[thewizard16]

I own a Toyota and I'm telling you that Toyota's materials quality is going down the tubes.

Ditto here. I don't care for the majority of their new vehicles, especially interior wise. Some of them look very nice inside, and some premium models are nice, but the solid build quality and well placed (nice) materials you used to be able to pretty much rely on isn't as good as it used to be.

[SVT666]

Ditto here. I don't care for the majority of their new vehicles, especially interior wise. Some of them look very nice inside, and some premium models are nice, but the solid build quality and well placed (nice) materials you used to be able to pretty much rely on isn't as good as it used to be.

Could they be following in GM's footsteps?

[thewizard16]

Could they be following in GM's footsteps?

I don't know. I have a friend who was a GM fanboy for a long time (he's more realistic now) and he's made that comparison. In some ways it seems to fit, but I personally think it's just an issue of them trying to do too much too quickly. I'm not saying it can't be done that way, I just don't think they're capable of doing it that way yet. Their new model development to production time is really quick, and they've got all these new plants and machines trying to produce some of these things, and I feel they probably should have just slowed down a bit on their "look at how efficient and fast we are" and focused on the quality of what was rolling off the line.

[Raghavan]

Toyota's just been making so many cars in the mad rush to be the #1 automaker that they've become overwhelmed with all the cars and can't give the attention to quality and detail that they used to. Also, they might be following in GM and the Big 3's footsteps and riding off of name a bit and letting their quality slip.
I'm not standing up for Toyota, but any manufacturer that big is probably going to run into quality problems.

[GoCougs]

I own a Toyota and I'm telling you that Toyota's materials quality is going down the tubes.?

I too own a Toyota ('97 Tacoma). Despite 165,xxx miles, the cloth seats, and especially the vinyl portions, look almost new. (The cloth though could use a steam cleaning.) The plastic dahs panels are a bit scratched, but after that much use, that's to be expected I think.

My intent was to state that some are using an observation or two to damn the quality and design and engineering of the entire corporation.

I've sat/ridden/driven in a fair number of new Toyotas, and I simply don't see cheapness. I am up front about not being a harsh critic of interior quality. In fact, I'd wager that at least 90% of those in the market for these vehicles cannot see cheapness. Am I trying to defend Toyota? Not in the least.

Now design is another matter. It took me a while to place it, but Toyota's approach to the Tundra's interior design was that of a jet cockpit. I am also leary of an AT floor shifter in a truck (perhaps a column is available).

Taking the interior cheapness as law, by extension Toyota spent the money on the powertrain and other functional bits. Given the choice, that's where I'd spend money to tackle the competition if I were Toyota. What would Toyota's marketing campaign have been? "We have the most luxurious interiors?"

Either way, I simply haven't seen the cheapness. (The previous was a hypothetical.) I don't grok the interior design too much (especially the dash), but that goes for most vehicles these days. Even today, few vehicles can approach the elegancy, simplicity and function of the dash of a '94-'97 Accord.

[ifcar]

I am also leary of an AT floor shifter in a truck (perhaps a column is available).

[Catman]

I too own a Toyota ('97 Tacoma). Despite 165,xxx miles, the cloth seats, and especially the vinyl portions, look almost new. (The cloth though could use a steam cleaning.) The plastic dahs panels are a bit scratched, but after that much use, that's to be expected I think.

My intent was to state that some are using an observation or two to damn the quality and design and engineering of the entire corporation.

I've sat/ridden/driven in a fair number of new Toyotas, and I simply don't see cheapness. I am up front about not being a harsh critic of interior quality. In fact, I'd wager that at least 90% of those in the market for these vehicles cannot see cheapness. Am I trying to defend Toyota? Not in the least.

Now design is another matter. It took me a while to place it, but Toyota's approach to the Tundra's interior design was that of a jet cockpit. I am also leary of an AT floor shifter in a truck (perhaps a column is available).

Taking the interior cheapness as law, by extension Toyota spent the money on the powertrain and other functional bits. Given the choice, that's where I'd spend money to tackle the competition if I were Toyota. What would Toyota's marketing campaign have been? "We have the most luxurious interiors?"

Either way, I simply haven't seen the cheapness. (The previous was a hypothetical.) I don't grok the interior design too much (especially the dash), but that goes for most vehicles these days. Even today, few vehicles can approach the elegancy, simplicity and function of the dash of a '94-'97 Accord.

You can feel cheapness as soon as you open the door on the new Tundra.  The fact that you can't see any cheapness on the new Toyotas tells me there is no sense in discussing it with you because you are blind in both the visual and tactile.  The Silverado that was sitting next to the Tundra at NY Show was much more solidly constructed in a lot of areas.  Being that all of these trucks today are over built for my needs I'd prefer one with a better interior over say, a 500 hp engine.  My Sequoia has some cheapness but overall it's pretty well constructed inside and out. 

[Raghavan]

Could it be shoddily built for the auto show? A 350Z convertible i sat in once was horrible, and some of the plastics cracked, but one i sat at a Nissan dealer was great.

[Catman]

Could it be shoddily built for the auto show? A 350Z convertible i sat in once was horrible, and some of the plastics cracked, but one i sat at a Nissan dealer was great.

Not in less they put on different door handles, dash, grille, etc.

[ifcar]

Could it be shoddily built for the auto show? A 350Z convertible i sat in once was horrible, and some of the plastics cracked, but one i sat at a Nissan dealer was great.

More likely, you were in the pre-update Z at the auto show and the updated one with a much nicer interior at the dealership.

The Tundras I've been in at the dealership had a rather cheap feel as well.

[Raghavan]

More likely, you were in the pre-update Z at the auto show and the updated one with a much nicer interior at the dealership.

The Tundras I've been in at the dealership had a rather cheap feel as well.

Huh, that could be it.

[rjm]

You can feel cheapness as soon as you open the door on the new Tundra.? The fact that you can't see any cheapness on the new Toyotas tells me there is no sense in discussing it with you because you are blind in both the visual and tactile.? The Silverado that was sitting next to the Tundra at NY Show was much more solidly constructed in a lot of areas.? Being that all of these trucks today are over built for my needs I'd prefer one with a better interior over say, a 500 hp engine.? My Sequoia has some cheapness but overall it's pretty well constructed inside and out.?

Well said Greg.

[GoCougs]

You can feel cheapness as soon as you open the door on the new Tundra.? The fact that you can't see any cheapness on the new Toyotas tells me there is no sense in discussing it with you because you are blind in both the visual and tactile.? The Silverado that was sitting next to the Tundra at NY Show was much more solidly constructed in a lot of areas.? Being that all of these trucks today are over built for my needs I'd prefer one with a better interior over say, a 500 hp engine.? My Sequoia has some cheapness but overall it's pretty well constructed inside and out.?

Oh, I don't know about blindness. In addition to having taken apart at least five complete interiors and many, many more dashboards, I have a little experience in plastic injection molding, and I surmise I can spot flashing, inconsistent dye, poor molding in general, and other quality and/or plastic design issues at least as well as the average enthusiast.

I've had a few Chrysler products, almost universally panned for interiors, as week-long rentals. The PT Cruiser and Durango I felt had decent materials, fit and all around good interiors. There was loads of hard plastics (I have yet to see why this is a detriment). The Grand Cherokee was similarly constructed, but the gages were very hard to read. I've driven the 300C a little bit, and though it wasn't replete with real wood trim and other luxury, it was similarly quite good IMO.

The only poor quality interior I've ever seen in a new car was in the (or more appropriately, "a") new Mustang. It had blatant inconsisent panel-to-panel dye coloring, bunches of flashing around the shifter and console, and at least a few panels simply didn't fit together.

Perhaps if i spent a lot of time in it I'd see it, or perhaps my interior bar quality meter is quite low. Either way, nothing I saw in that particular Tundra struck out at me.