Mazdaspeed3 is too powerful

[Soup DeVille]

Yes, and I can deal with it just fine. I don't see what all the fuss is about.

Neither do I.

Of course I also don't see what the huge gripe is about:

High revving engines

Turbo lag (In anything remotely modern)

how the dashboard feels

if people might think I'm gay if I drive this car

if people might think I'm a redneck if I drive this car

Nav

cupholders

...or about a dozen other things that people tend to complain about.

[JYODER240]

personally I've always enjoyed a little torque-steer, it can be fun to fight with the wheel

[Raghavan]

personally I've always enjoyed a little torque-steer, it can be fun to fight with the wheel

I agree, it super fun when the wheel goes all crazy on you, but on a race track i'd imagine that would be a pain.

[Soup DeVille]

I agree, it super fun when the wheel goes all crazy on you, but on a race track i'd imagine that would be a pain.

The major drawback is that when applying power out of a turn, especially in first or second, the steering wheel can go dead: no longer pulling back to center like it should.

It feels very much like the car does when its about to lose grip.

[Raghavan]

The major drawback is that when applying power out of a turn, especially in first or second, the steering wheel can go dead: no longer pulling back to center like it should.

It feels very much like the car does when its about to lose grip.

So it keeps pulling to one side? Isn't that dangerous if there are other cars around you?
Another reason why RWD rules.

[565]

Seriously if I were Mazda, looking at my lineup, I wouldn't think "hmmmm you know which cars need ridiculous awesome turbo power? The crossover, the FWD hot hatch, and the awd midsize that doesn't really fit into a segment"

What about Mazda's real sports cars?  With Solstice GXP's and 350Z's in this market, but the Miata and RX8 really deserve high powered Mazdaspeed versions far more than the 6 and the 3.

[ifcar]

The Ralliart was significantly less than a WRX and nowhere near the same performace league.

My point is that they offered two different versions at two very different price points, and that Dodge could have done the same.

[ifcar]

Ifcar, you missed the fact that Chrysler just offloaded Mitsubishi to save their own asses, so I kinda doubt Mitsubishi would contribute the necessary driveline components to make an AWD 300hp Caliber.

Right, but they were still collaborating when the Caliber was being developed.

[sportyaccordy]

Did you post a thread about getting a new car? I must  have missed it. I can only assume it's the one in your sig... which is an Accord a H22 motor swap or something? It's not the silver one from your old sig...or you painted it primer red and the wheels flat black? 

I did buy a new car and post a thread about it... I'm too lazy to look for it though.

They can keep the power... just turn down the torque...

[Onslaught]

Seriously if I were Mazda, looking at my lineup, I wouldn't think "hmmmm you know which cars need ridiculous awesome turbo power? The crossover, the FWD hot hatch, and the awd midsize that doesn't really fit into a segment"

What about Mazda's real sports cars?? With Solstice GXP's and 350Z's in this market, but the Miata and RX8 really deserve high powered Mazdaspeed versions far more than the 6 and the 3.

I don't see a Mazdaspeed RX-8 coming out. The cars not selling that well and people already bitch about the supposed bad gas mileage and a turbo won't help that much. And people don't trust these motors with turbos after the FD.   I would like to see it but would be stunned if the car made it to production.
I do believe that the MS MX-5 will probably be the next car seen down the line. I've seen some comments made in interviews from people in Mazda that makes me believe it's something they are working on. But the big debate is will it have the 2.3 out of the other MS cars or just a turbo version of it's 2.0 motor now. I hear that the 2.3 won't fit very well in the MX-5.

[r0tor]

OVER POWERING: Mazdaspeed 3's horses are too much for steering and handling
April 19, 2007

BY MARK PHELAN

FREE PRESS COLUMNIST

Mazda might have been well advised to dial the engine's output back to 220 horsepower or so -- more power than the competition, but not too much for the 3 to handle gracefully.

someone should tell him the ECU dials back power when the wheels are not straight... 

[Raza]

I don't see a Mazdaspeed RX-8 coming out. The cars not selling that well and people already bitch about the supposed bad gas mileage and a turbo won't help that much. And people don't trust these motors with turbos after the FD.   I would like to see it but would be stunned if the car made it to production.
I do believe that the MS MX-5 will probably be the next car seen down the line. I've seen some comments made in interviews from people in Mazda that makes me believe it's something they are working on. But the big debate is will it have the 2.3 out of the other MS cars or just a turbo version of it's 2.0 motor now. I hear that the 2.3 won't fit very well in the MX-5.

You mean it physically fit in the engine bay, or its character doesn't fit the MX-5's? 

[ChrisV]

Torque steer sucks ass.  The driving experience blows. 

So don't give it full throttle in a place that torque steer would be a problem. I've driven high powered FWD cars with torque steer (and I'm talking 300+ hp) A good driver modulates the throttle just like they do in a 400 hp + RWD car.

If I got on the throttle hard in my V8 RX7 it would go sideways, so you SQUEEZE the throttle, not mash it. Finesse is a good thing.

[nickdrinkwater]

Is it the most powerful FWD car on sale today in terms of brake-horses and torque?

[JYODER240]

Is it the most powerful FWD car on sale today in terms of brake-horses and torque?

As far as power-to-weight ratio goes probably, but the DTS is FWD and has more power.

[Raza]

Is it the most powerful FWD car on sale today in terms of brake-horses and torque?

No, it is not.  The Acura TL Type S has more horsepower (286), although it has less torque (256).  The standard TL comes close at 258bhp, but you weren't asking for close. 

I drove the TL back when it had "only" 270bhp, and it was a pain.  You had all that power but you couldn't do anything with it, because if you got on it in a low gear, you'd either spin the tires or torque steer.  Not to mention that the shifter just okay and the clutch was worse. 

It's not a question of manageability, either.  Yes, you could just not get on the gas, but what's the fun of moderation? 

[Raza]

So it keeps pulling to one side? Isn't that dangerous if there are other cars around you?
Another reason why RWD rules.

Doing 360s is even more dangerous.  Silly argument.

[ChrisV]

It's not a question of manageability, either.  Yes, you could just not get on the gas, but what's the fun of moderation? 

The satisfaction of using your skill to get the most out of the car, rather than requiring it to be reduced to your own low skill level.

[ChrisV]

Just like you can't launch a viper or Z06 by simply running up the revs to max power and sidestepping the clutch. You have to modulate that power to get the most out of the car. It's skill and part of the reason you guys prefer sticks to begin with. Modulate the power when necessary and use all of it when it's most applicable. And use some SKILL to control the car when torque steer occurs (and I like a bit of it in a FWD car as it implies having torque).

[Raza]

The satisfaction of using your skill to get the most out of the car, rather than requiring it to be reduced to your own low skill level.

Ouch, kid.  Back off!

I like to drive cars at the limit (which is one of the reasons I think new cars have limits that are too high.  They should be lower, and that's why I'm thinking of an older car later on), and you can't drive at the limit at half throttle.  But I do see where you're coming from.  I think a high powered RWD car is probably just as tough when it comes to moderation, but it's also generally more fun when you go beyond the traction limits of a rear drive car than a front drive car.  With rear drive, you can use its lack of traction to correct your cornering angles.  With front drive, you generally just understeer.  I mean, no one appreciates a good front drive chassis better than I, but I really do think that there's a limit to the amount of usable power you can put in this application.  And mind you, I love front drive cars, but it is not as good a setup for handling power as rear drive.

[Raza]

Neither do I.

Of course I also don't see what the huge gripe is about:

High revving engines  I like them.

Turbo lag (In anything remotely modern)  I actually like turbo lag.  It makes driving a bit more of an occasion.

how the dashboard feels  I don't really care.  I mean, there's a difference between a bad interior and an uninhabitable one, but how bad must the plastics be for an interior to be uninhabitable?  Obviously, materials do matter more in different kinds of cars, though.

if people might think I'm gay if I drive this car  Don't care.   

if people might think I'm a redneck if I drive this car  Now, that's never going to be an issue with me.

Nav  Don't want it.

cupholders  I like them.  They're certainly convenient.  I have a car with and a car without (technically the Boxster has cupholders, you're just not supposed to use them).  I do like being able to drink and drive at the same time.  Erm...soft drinks when stopped at lights, especially in the summer.

...or about a dozen other things that people tend to complain about.

I didn't think about the blue and the blue. 

[ChrisV]

Torque steer and understeer are two different things, and too much power doesn't automatically equate into understeer. You can have a lot of power, torque steer and OVERsteer in a FWD car. I've built them that way, and even the SVT Contour was a little like that (a little torque steer and a little oversteer).

hell, the oversteer/understeer setup in the SVT was much like in a 911, in that you drove them the same way when either occurred.

[Raza]

Torque steer and understeer are two different things, and too much power doesn't automatically equate into understeer. You can have a lot of power, torque steer and OVERsteer in a FWD car. I've built them that way, and even the SVT Contour was a little like that (a little torque steer and a little oversteer).

hell, the oversteer/understeer setup in the SVT was much like in a 911, in that you drove them the same way when either occurred.

Yeah, you're right.  What I meant was that if you get into it mid corner and you spin the tires, you lose your front end grip and then start to slide out of the corner.  And I know you can kick around the weight and get some LTO (I've done it loads of times), but you get my drift, right?

[SVT666]

If I got on the throttle hard in my V8 RX7 it would go sideways, so you SQUEEZE the throttle, not mash it. Finesse is a good thing.

RWD cars don't have torque steer.  They have oversteer and that is fun.  Torque steer happens, and it happens without you wanting it to.  Torque steer sucks. 

[Tave]

The satisfaction of using your skill to get the most out of the car, rather than requiring it to be reduced to your own low skill level.

It's like the difference in video games between people who choose a competitive car and try to race perfectly or the kid who chooses the high-horsepower monster and takes all the turns by crashing into the guardrails and following them through the corner.

Sure, the second way might technically be faster but the first is much more satisfying.

[ChrisV]

RWD cars don't have torque steer.  They have oversteer and that is fun.  Torque steer happens, and it happens without you wanting it to.  Torque steer sucks. 

Oversteer can hapopen when you don't want it to, also. Oversteer when you dont' want it sucks.

See, I can say things just as silly.




And Raza, yes, I already know what you're saying. I'm saying that it's not an issue if you have any sort of experience with high powered FWD cars. It's really not. if it's spinning the tires and going to the outside, you simply let off the throttle, just like in a RWD car that is pushing or a RWD car that is spinning the tires and sliding to the outside with the rear (drifting isn't the fast way through the corner).

[SVT666]

Oversteer can hapopen when you don't want it to, also. Oversteer when you dont' want it sucks.

See, I can say things just as silly.




And Raza, yes, I already know what you're saying. I'm saying that it's not an issue if you have any sort of experience with high powered FWD cars. It's really not. if it's spinning the tires and going to the outside, you simply let off the throttle, just like in a RWD car that is pushing or a RWD car that is spinning the tires and sliding to the outside with the rear (drifting isn't the fast way through the corner).

Holy shit.  Not only do you think there is no such thing as an ugly car, but you also don't think there is anything negative about how any car drives.

[Onslaught]

You mean it physically fit in the engine bay, or its character doesn't fit the MX-5's??

Physically fit in. This is just from what I've seen at other Miata sites but there has been some questions to whether it would fit at all

[nickdrinkwater]

Holy shit.  Not only do you think there is no such thing as an ugly car, but you also don't think there is anything negative about how any car drives.

[Raza]

Physically fit in. This is just from what I've seen at other Miata sites but there has been some questions to whether it would fit at all

They could always do one of those ugly power bumps in the hood like the M3 and 350Z, if height is the issue.