The Official Mustang Thread

[FoMoJo]

It's finally here, Posting ITT as the GT500 is the newer of the bunch: Betting on the Ponies: Mustang GT500 versus Camaro ZL1 1LE.

In short, no "clear winner" but they choose the Camaro as it's almost $30k cheaper, had equivalent or better overall performance (albeit the Mustang was quicker past the 1/4 mile) and is easier to drive fast. The GT500 also had better ride, better ergo and some nicer touches. 

So the Camaro is cheaper.

[Xer0]

The GT500 traps almost 10mph faster in the quarter then the ZL1 even though it runs effectively the same time.  That motor hauls some serious ass

[FoMoJo]

The GT500 traps almost 10mph faster in the quarter then the ZL1 even though it runs effectively the same time.  That motor hauls some serious ass

Getting off the line, by less than proficient drivers, seems to be the problem in these comparisons.  That the GT500 has shown to be almost a second faster when in the hands of a capable driver on a real drag strip is a true measure of the capability.  That the Camaro has 'wider' tires is also an indication of available grip.  Traction control can only do so much on a less than ideal surface.

[GoCougs]

The GT500 does have a lot of power, but if pretty much all non-Ford private tests show 11.2-11.4, then it's a 11.2-11.4 car.

As demonstrated prior, the GT500 (like the GT350) suffers from a peaky motor and tall gears, and that's gonna hurt it getting if off the line - watch the vids - there is a lot of bogging. With a DCT and launch control, there's not really much to do to change that. Note the ZL1 matches the GT500 in 30-50 and 50-70 times (with the slower-to-react transmission no less), which are not traction-limited stats.

As I predicted, the GT500, like the S197 version, was bound to substitute horsepower for bakedness. Thus, the ZL1 rightfully wins this one. The GT500 has touches and refinement befitting a price tag some $20k higher, but as a performance car (steering, brakes, grip, chassis, performance handling, real-world performance), the ZL1 is 100% baked where as the GT500 is not

[GoCougs]

Guy I shred with has this going up for auction today at Barrett-Jackson live on ESPN - 1966 Ford Mustang TOXIC 66. He bought it only a year ago, did a few burnouts, and now out the door it goes:

[FoMoJo]

Shred what?

As for the car, I see no point.

[GoCougs]

Shreddin' gnar! (Mountain biking.)

The point is as show/art piece. Not really for me either, but it is baller - no expense was spared - just look at those panel gaps. Major pro work right there.

[giant_mtb]

Yeah that's a beautiful work of art. Indeed just a showpiece.

[565]

[GoCougs]

Saw that video (Throttle House). Love that channel - such a delightful duo w/great collab for that video.

ZL1 also won the drag race. It was from a dig, so the very strange (undeveloped) GT500 launch control has that delay before movement, that makes it almost useless from a dig.

From a 50 mph roll, the ZL1 was last but the margins between the three were surprisingly small.

ZL1 was the most dialed and least expensive but the harshest. The GT500 was the most premium and most usable/comfy. The Demon was a classic, brutish muscle car.

3 of the 4 chose the GT500. 1 of the 4, the only pro racer of the group, chose the ZL1.

[FoMoJo]

Saw that video (Throttle House). Love that channel - such a delightful duo w/great collab for that video.

ZL1 also won the drag race. It was from a dig, so the very strange (undeveloped) GT500 launch control has that delay before movement, that makes it almost useless from a dig.

From a 50 mph roll, the ZL1 was last but the margins between the three were surprisingly small.

ZL1 was the most dialed and least expensive but the harshest. The GT500 was the most premium and most usable/comfy. The Demon was a classic, brutish muscle car.

3 of the 4 chose the GT500. 1 of the 4, the only pro racer of the group, chose the ZL1.

Musta bin a Chevy guy .

[GoCougs]

Musta bin a Chevy guy .

He races all sorts of cars of course, but he's actually a classic Volvo guy. 

If you're a legit road race car driver, and want a race car for the street, IMO it's not a stretch that you choose the most road race-car like car in the group, and bonus if it also costs the least, right?

[565]

https://youtu.be/snBCRyxsUgk?t=2010

Even though he bogged the launch on the Camaro.

I thought this GT500 Carbon Track pack is supposed to be a track weapon.  Why is it getting shat on by the ZL1 at the track?

[565]

Musta bin a Chevy guy .

It's Randy Pobst, his opinion is worth 10x of those journalist opinions.

[GoCougs]

https://youtu.be/snBCRyxsUgk?t=2010

Even though he bogged the launch on the Camaro.

I thought this GT500 Carbon Track pack is supposed to be a track weapon.  Why is it getting shat on by the ZL1 at the track?

To be fair, they said the tires on the GT500 were worn. Why? By how much? Seems there are caveats to each 2020 GT500 test I read/view - temp, altitude, tires, whatever, but the performance numbers more or less are always the same.

The GT500 tried to be three things. Drag car? It has monster power and DCT with launch control, but gearing is tall, and the launch control is whack what with the delay and RPM set point weirdness. Track star? It has ginormous brakes, tires, CF wheels and big aero but is a coupe that weighs ~4,200 lbs and is governed due to stability issues. GT? Probably the closest, but no M/T option, and there is legacy from the other two personas, that blunt the GTness.

Ford should have chosen one person and went for it. Given the history of the S197 chassis, and the existence of the GT350, the GT persona probably would've been the best path. Also, Dodge was squarely in the drag camp, and the ZL1 totally the track star. Still, it's good that all cars are factory available with warranty, so I'm not exactly complaining .

[565]

To be fair, they said the tires on the GT500 were worn. Why? By how much? Seems there are caveats to each 2020 GT500 test I read/view - temp, altitude, tires, whatever, but the performance numbers more or less are always the same.

Are you talking about the Throttle house video or the video I just posted from Edmunds.  Yes the GT500 Carbon Track package lost yet another track test against the ZL1, and on the Edmunds test they started from a dig, and the Camaro bogged the start bad and still beat the GT500.

[Gotta-Qik-C7]

To be fair, they said the tires on the GT500 were worn. Why? By how much? Seems there are caveats to each 2020 GT500 test I read/view - temp, altitude, tires, whatever, but the performance numbers more or less are always the same.

The GT500 tried to be three things. Drag car? It has monster power and DCT with launch control, but gearing is tall, and the launch control is whack what with the delay and RPM set point weirdness. Track star? It has ginormous brakes, tires, CF wheels and big aero but is a coupe that weighs ~4,200 lbs and is governed due to stability issues. GT? Probably the closest, but no M/T option, and there is legacy from the other two personas, that blunt the GTness.

Ford should have chosen one person and went for it. Given the history of the S197 chassis, and the existence of the GT350, the GT persona probably would've been the best path. Also, Dodge was squarely in the drag camp, and the ZL1 totally the track star. Still, it's good that all cars are factory available with warranty, so I'm not exactly complaining .

Good summary! 

Musta bin a Chevy guy .

Smart man! 

[GoCougs]

Are you talking about the Throttle house video or the video I just posted from Edmunds.  Yes the GT500 Carbon Track package lost yet another track test against the ZL1, and on the Edmunds test they started from a dig, and the Camaro bogged the start bad and still beat the GT500.

Haha, I thought your vid was Throttle House vid. In the Throttle House vid, they noted worn tires on the GT500 as it was delivered to them.

It's a 10.6 sec car they said.

[CaminoRacer]

It's Randy Pobst, his opinion is worth 10x of those journalist opinions.

My dad ran into him at the Atlanta airport this morning. He bought a 4 cylinder Camaro recently, I think. So he put his money where his mouth is.

[FoMoJo]

My dad ran into him at the Atlanta airport this morning. He bought a 4 cylinder Camaro recently, I think. So he put his money where his mouth is.

So, a Chevy fan .

A 4 cylinder?

[565]

So, a Chevy fan .

A 4 cylinder?

He can probably drive that 4 cylinder Camaro faster around a track than any of us could drive a GT500 Carbon track pack.

[Eye of the Tiger]

He can probably drive that 4 cylinder Camaro faster around a track than any of us could drive a GT500 Carbon track pack.

That's only because Mustangs are junk

[FoMoJo]

https://youtu.be/snBCRyxsUgk?t=2010

Even though he bogged the launch on the Camaro.

I thought this GT500 Carbon Track pack is supposed to be a track weapon.  Why is it getting shat on by the ZL1 at the track?

With its fat sticky tires, we know that the ZL1 does pretty good on short hops, 0 to 60, short twisty tracks where there's no room to get the power down, but where it counts, on the drag strip, proper race courses, the GT500 dominates, as well as being a much more friendly road car on the streets and highways.  Really no contest.

[FoMoJo]

That's only because Mustangs are junk

Wouldn't love to have a junk GT500?

[FoMoJo]

He can probably drive that 4 cylinder Camaro faster around a track than any of us could drive a GT500 Carbon track pack.

I nominate MX or Camino to drive the GT500.

[CaminoRacer]

He can probably drive that 4 cylinder Camaro faster around a track than any of us could drive a GT500 Carbon track pack.

Depending on the use, yeah. GM engineers beat 50 v8 Mustangs and Camaros at autocross in a 4 cylinder. They're quick and lighter

[GoCougs]

With its fat sticky tires, we know that the ZL1 does pretty good on short hops, 0 to 60, short twisty tracks where there's no room to get the power down, but where it counts, on the drag strip, proper race courses, the GT500 dominates, as well as being a much more friendly road car on the streets and highways.  Really no contest.

If it's no contest, why does the ZL1 1LE keep coming out even or better in all these tests?

[Eye of the Tiger]

Wouldn't love to have a junk GT500?

You know me, I love junk cars.

[565]

If it's no contest, why does the ZL1 1LE keep coming out even or better in all these tests?

Don't you know?  The GT500 needs a prepped surface to perform.  It's not Ford's fault, it's your fault for not having a prepped surface at all times under the car.

[FoMoJo]

If it's no contest, why does the ZL1 1LE keep coming out even or better in all these tests?

Does It?