Edmunds Inside Line - 2008 Mercedes-Benz CLK63 AMG Black Series vs. 2007 BMW M6

[MX793]

ti means compact, like in the E36 318ti.

The "i" in "ti" is for fuel injected.  The t indicates that it's a hatchback.

[omicron]

BMWology:

e = economical model


I don't think I'm missing any, but I could be wrong.

Awful, awful cars.

[Raza]

The "i" in "ti" is for fuel injected.  The t indicates that it's a hatchback.

So was the 2002tii really, really fuel injected?

[The Pirate]

So was the 2002tii really, really fuel injected?

The tii had Kugelfischer fuel injection, which was unavailable on the lesser 2002s.  It also had more robust suspension pieces, larger brakes, and several other performance features; most were exclusive to the 2002tii.


I'm not sure why all those warranted an extra i, but the car was indeed much different.

[the Teuton]

But the tii had a trunk.  Wimmer or Pommes, time to shed some German light on what the ti and tii mean.

[LonghornTX]

Eh, not suprising to me at all.  I would have waited until BMW did a CSL version of the M6 before I really made this comparison, but then again, with as small as the rear seat is in the M6, I would rather see it compared to an SL or the bigger CL in the first place. 

I do prefer the look of the CLK in this particular test, but only just barely.  From some angles, it looks way overdone, others it looks badass.  Unlike some in this thread, I also like the M6.  I just think silver does not suit it very well.  The 6, IMO, is fundamentally a more aggressive looking design and that is something I appreciate.

Plus, what gives with AMG still sticking a slushbox in here  ?

I honestly wouldn't take either of these cars.  Give me an XKR or AMV8  .

[Raza]

Plus, what gives with AMG still sticking a slushbox in here? ?

I think many here would consider the SMG the inferior transmission for anything but track work.  And the M6 doesn't really belong on a track.

[Tave]

I've heard SMG has gotten better every generation, but I can't remember a specific article on the M6's.

[Raza]

I will never see the point of SMG on a road car except as a marketing gimmick. 

IT'S NOT MORE INVOLVING THAN A MANUALLY SHIFTING AUTOMATIC!!!

I don't care what you people say.  Either way you push a button and the transmission makes a move after a computer tells it what to do.  I don't deny than an SMG may be marginally faster at shifting, but again, on a road car, that doesn't really matter much.

[Tave]

So why do you care? If there's no difference it's a wash. Mercedes has the same gimmick, Audi too; hell, I even saw an ad about the fantabulous 8-speed Lexus the other day. It's all the same. Any automaker that has its own transmission likes to talk about how its transmission is the best.

[Raza]

So why do you care? If there's no difference it's a wash. Mercedes has the same gimmick, Audi too; hell, I even saw an ad about the fantabulous 8-speed Lexus the other day. It's all the same. Any automaker that has its own transmission likes to talk about how its transmission is the best.

I'm not talking about ratios.  It's the brainwashed that annoy me.

[Tave]

I'm not talking about ratios.? It's the brainwashed that annoy me.

Oh, I forgot about the zombies roaming down Main St. mouthing "S......M......G..................S......M......G"

[TheIntrepid]

Oh, I forgot about the zombies roaming down Main St. mouthing "S......M......G..................S......M......G"

[SJ_GTI]

IT'S NOT MORE INVOLVING THAN A MANUALLY SHIFTING AUTOMATIC!!!

It depends on the automatic. In theory, yes you could probably program a regular slushbox to respond as quickly and "act" like an SMG. However, SMG has a few attributes that I like better than slushboxes (ie: automatics with torque converters). The main one is that an SMG still directly connects the engine with the transmission, where as the slushbox still has a fluid. SMG's tend to have better throttle response for this reason.

[Raza]

Oh, I forgot about the zombies roaming down Main St. mouthing "S......M......G..................S......M......G"

Apparently you're new here...

[Lebowski]

It depends on the automatic. In theory, yes you could probably program a regular slushbox to respond as quickly and "act" like an SMG. However, SMG has a few attributes that I like better than slushboxes (ie: automatics with torque converters). The main one is that an SMG still directly connects the engine with the transmission, where as the slushbox still has a fluid. SMG's tend to have better throttle response for this reason.

Yeah, but on the road, in real world driving, any advantage the SMG has is more than offset by the clunkiness relative an automatic in, say, city driving.

I have no problem with SMGs (or F1 or whatever you want to call them) on cars like, say, the Ferrari F430.  But on more "luxury" oriented road cars (anything that will see much more time on city streets than on a track), such as the M5 or M6 and definately the Quattroporte, a good slushie is a better transmission.  All this hoopla over SMGs/F1s is mostly marketing hype IMHO.

One of my bosses has an M5 (had it about 6 months or so).  She almost never drives it on her commute to work, preferring to drive, get this, her Honda Element instead.  I get the impression a big reason for that is the SMG sucks in stop and go traffic.

[Tave]

Like I said, I've heard every generation SMG is less "clunky" than the last, and as someone pointed out to Raza in another thread (I believe it was Longhorn), shifts can be smoothed by modulating the throttle during gear changes as one would with a conventional manual.

[Lebowski]

Like I said, I've heard every generation SMG is less "clunky" than the last, and as someone pointed out to Raza in another thread (I believe it was Longhorn), shifts can be smoothed by modulating the throttle during gear changes as one would with a conventional manual.

I don't drive an SMG every day (and I don't think many people here do), so I'm not an expert on the topic, but I still seem to read a lot of complaints about 'clunkiness' in SMGs in reviews in car magazines.

Less clunky than the last generation?  Who cares?  Certainly not me if I'm shelling out $80k+ for a car when a well made traditional auto is 98% as good in terms of performance and 10x better in terms of smoothness in day to day driving.

Although, I'd never buy an SMG in any car available with a traditional manual, so for me it's a moot point.  I just think car companies are doing themselves and their customers a great disservice by equipping cars like the M5 or Quattroporte w/ an SMG instead of a true auto.

[MexicoCityM3]

I don't drive an SMG every day (and I don't think many people here do), so I'm not an expert on the topic, but I still seem to read a lot of complaints about 'clunkiness' in SMGs in reviews in car magazines.

Less clunky than the last generation?? Who cares?? Certainly not me if I'm shelling out $80k+ for a car when a well made traditional auto is 98% as good in terms of performance and 10x better in terms of smoothness in day to day driving.

Although, I'd never buy an SMG in any car available with a traditional manual, so for me it's a moot point.? I just think car companies are doing themselves and their customers a great disservice by equipping cars like the M5 or Quattroporte w/ an SMG instead of a true auto.

You can get a manual on the M5 and on '08 models you CAN disable DSC (stability control).

[SJ_GTI]

I drove a gen 1 SMG on a BMW 325i a couple of years ago. Sure it wasn't as smooth as an automatic, but calling it clunky is retarded IMHO, and by all acounts SMG II (M3) and SMG III (M5/6) are even better still.

DSG is just as smooth as an automatic (in general) and it offers the benefit of a direct connection between the engine and transmission as well as faster shifting (in general) and no additional power loss.

[Raza]

The dual clutch system, I admit, is impressive.  If there is a real conventional automatic replacement, that's it. 

I've heard of some bad decisions in automatic mode at low speeds, though. 

[SJ_GTI]

The dual clutch system, I admit, is impressive.? If there is a real conventional automatic replacement, that's it.?

I've heard of some bad decisions in automatic mode at low speeds, though.?

Regular automatics make plenty of bad decisions as well. I've been in plenty of cars with traditional automatics that get caught in the wrong gear, won't rev up to the redline, or shift to hard when you pres the gas just a bit too much.

Whenever you have a computer trying to interpret what you want done based on throttle input there is going to be some "miscommunication" between what you, the driver, wants done and what the computer thinks you want done.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Regular automatics make plenty of bad decisions as well. I've been in plenty of cars with traditional automatics that get caught in the wrong gear, won't rev up to the redline, or shift to hard when you pres the gas just a bit too much.

Whenever you have a computer trying to interpret what you want done based on throttle input there is going to be some "miscommunication" between what you, the driver, wants done and what the computer thinks you want done.

That's why I like the old-skool automatics that use manifold vacuum and an adjustable kickdown cable. 

[Lebowski]

Sure it wasn't as smooth as an automatic, but calling it clunky is retarded IMHO

YOU'RE RETARDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SJ_GTI]

YOU'RE RETARDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And you're clearly jealous of my pure-bred german racing car. 

[LonghornTX]

IT'S NOT MORE INVOLVING THAN A MANUALLY SHIFTING AUTOMATIC!!!

WRONG  .

Haha, sorry, I had to exercise my e-temper, haha.  But seriously, this is an incorrect statement based on my experience.

1.  As SJ already mentioned, the throttle response (especially in gear) is unmatched by all except the few slushies out there that offer a lock up feature.  This CLK does not offer said feature as far as I know.
2.  The SMG requires user input to be smooth on shifts, like a manual.  This in itself makes it more involving for the sheer fact that you have to pay more attention to what you are doing than in an auto.
3.  SMG will not shift at redline, unlike most autos.

Yes, DSG is still a better system in all aspects, IMO.  BUT, SMG has improved substantially over its three generations.  Those that dog on the system should actually take the time to use and learn it, THEN you can harp on it if you would like 

[the Teuton]

That's why I like the old-skool automatics that use manifold vacuum and an adjustable kickdown cable. 

My Shifter:

P -- not going anywhere
N -- going on a big hill, this is my "hybrid" feature.  My car runs on both gas and gravity.
R -- reverse
D -- big, flat plane
3 -- passing or hill
2 -- big-ass hill
1 -- really big-ass hill

How many automatic cars can you adjust and kick down to any gear you want?  I hate computers in cars and I'm glad you can have some say in how you want your car to function, even if it is an automatic.  I wouldn't want the computer to interfere with my decisions.

[TheIntrepid]

P
R
N
D
AUTOSTICK 1-2-3-4

[JYODER240]

1 3 5
2 4 6 R    Just as God intended

[Tave]

R? 135
? ? ?24



I wish I could shift into reverse on the go.