Official Press release: BMW 135i Coupe

[Eye of the Tiger]

Not yet...

I drive a 2500lb, 98hp car. Nothing is very likey to happen that is my own fault.
But then there's my 400lb 60hp bicycle...

[MexicoCityM3]

Those that think the 135i will not be the drivers car of the lineup should consider that BMW sure is positioning it as such.? Remember, M-aero kit (with what look like front brake cooling ducts), 6-piston brakes, the most performance oriented traction control system available for the model, and the most aggressive suspension as standard.? Plus, I am sure there might be some things we don't even know yet considering the severe lack of info that we have.? While the N52 equipped models will be lighter, the N54 will sport a much more serious brake setup and be much faster in a straight line.? Plus, with everyone talking about nose heavy this, nose heavy that, remember that BMW makes all their cars within a couple 1/10s of a % to 50/50 weight distribution....

Oh yea, I put myself in line (I am the first? ) today at the dealer after driving an E90 335i 6mt sport.? That car was simply incredible, I can only imagine what 200-300 pounds lighter feels like.....

Great choice. Congratulations.

I am definitely considering a 135i as a possible next car for me.

Pluses:

1. Unbeatable price/performance.
2. About half the price of the next M3, and probably the same performance (or more) with less than 10K in mods (at most).
3. Light weight (relatively), still practical (barely).

Minuses:

1. The engine *may* overheat in track days. That would be a dealbreaker for me, the M3 can run on the track all day.
2. I prefer N/A engines totally linear throttle response. (Yes, I have driven a 335i and I prefer the S54 in my M3 even though it makes less power b/c of Mexico City's heigh above sea level).

I hope I can get one instead of the MINI and keep the M3 .

[Champ]

Great choice. Congratulations.

I am definitely considering a 135i as a possible next car for me.

Pluses:

1. Unbeatable price/performance.
2. About half the price of the next M3, and probably the same performance (or more) with less than 10K in mods (at most).
3. Light weight (relatively), still practical (barely).

Minuses:

1. The engine *may* overheat in track days. That would be a dealbreaker for me, the M3 can run on the track all day.
2. I prefer N/A engines totally linear throttle response. (Yes, I have driven a 335i and I prefer the S54 in my M3 even though it makes less power b/c of Mexico City's heigh above sea level).

I hope I can get one instead of the MINI and keep the M3 .

Should use some of the $10k in upgrades to buy a larger intercooler.  :)

My engine didn't overheat or lose boost on the ~100ish temps last auto cross day with 6 runs.  That was with stock intercooler which isn't great.

I prefer F/I engines because of the kick you in the pants boost

[LonghornTX]

Great choice. Congratulations.

I am definitely considering a 135i as a possible next car for me.

Pluses:

1. Unbeatable price/performance.
2. About half the price of the next M3, and probably the same performance (or more) with less than 10K in mods (at most).
3. Light weight (relatively), still practical (barely).

Minuses:

1. The engine *may* overheat in track days. That would be a dealbreaker for me, the M3 can run on the track all day.
2. I prefer N/A engines totally linear throttle response. (Yes, I have driven a 335i and I prefer the S54 in my M3 even though it makes less power b/c of Mexico City's heigh above sea level).

I hope I can get one instead of the MINI and keep the M3 .

Thanks? .? I really think this car is going to be a giant killer, capable of taking on (but maybe not beating) an E46 M3 in stock form around a track.? It will certainly take it in a straight line.

I am not really too worried about the overheating issue.? That was only with certain cars and the problem, as far as I know, has been resolved.

I will most likely mod the car to a good degree, though I will likely only touch the mechanics and wheels.? First will be a set of lightweight wheels (probably ultraleggras) with some non-RFT tires.? Then probably a PROcede tune and performance suspension (I have had good luck with H&R/Bilstein).....

But this isn't to say that this deal is set in stone because the deposit is refundable.? I plan on test driving the following: Mustang GT, 350z, RX-8, GTI, IS350, G35, A4 2.0TQ, C-class (hopefully a new one this year), C6 w/z51 (a bit expensive, I know), Si, MS3, Elise, Charger SRT-8, TL-S, Boxster, TT 2.0T.? Can anyone add a sporty 2/4 door car to that list that I should drive?  I want to try and cap it at 45K.

[Danish]

I prefer N/A engines totally linear throttle response. (Yes, I have driven a 335i and I prefer the S54 in my M3 even though it makes less power b/c of Mexico City's heigh above sea level).

I thought FI engines don't take a penalty because of altitude while NA engines do

[LonghornTX]

Congrats Longhorn!

Thanks  .

[Raghavan]

Did you specify options yet?
Or do you get first pick when they come in? Which model are you thinking of? What transmission?

[LonghornTX]

Did you specify options yet?
Or do you get first pick when they come in? Which model are you thinking of? What transmission?

I haven't specified options yet because we don't really know too much at this point as far as the different packages.  I will probably get all performance features (if available) and an upgrade for the sound system if they have one.  Plus leather and possibly a metallic color.

I am thinking about the 135i with the 6MT.

[Raghavan]

...  I will probably get all performance features (if available) ...
I am thinking about the 135i with the 6MT.

[Champ]

But this isn't to say that this deal is set in stone because the deposit is refundable.  I plan on test driving the following: Mustang GT, 350z, RX-8, GTI, IS350, G35, A4 2.0TQ, C-class (hopefully a new one this year), C6 w/z51 (a bit expensive, I know), Si, MS3, Elise, Charger SRT-8, TL-S, Boxster, TT 2.0T.  Can anyone add a sporty 2/4 door car to that list that I should drive?  I want to try and cap it at 45K.

By when?  Saab has the new AWD coming out with 280hp in September probably.  Might be late but w/e options are good :)

[LonghornTX]

By when?? Saab has the new AWD coming out with 280hp in September probably.? Might be late but w/e options are good :)

I won't have to make a decision until december or january.

Oh yea, BMW USA has something up on their webpage, a mini site.

[Rich]

I thought FI engines don't take a penalty because of altitude while NA engines do

A turbo engine will run as a N/A engine before the boost spools up.  Since the high altitudes will decrease the power before the boost comes on, the difference between boost and no boost is exaggerated.  It will make the power non linear

[ChrisV]

BMW has never been in the market of selling cars at mainstream prices. I am fairly certain the 2002 was very expensive in its day, as was the E36 M3.

Actually teh basic 3 series WAS mainstream in it's priceing. that was teh point. BMW itself said there's never be a $30k plus 3 series, then they changed their  mind and started teh 3 on teh path to exotic car pricing with the E36 M3 and then the mainstram cars. The 2002 was mainstream in it's pricing in it's day and really was what gave teh company it's reputation. IN it's day, the 2000 CS and 3.0 CS were the high priced coupes.

Do you realize the 328i Coupe starts at 36k USD (incl destination)? The 335i coupe starts at 41.6k USD.

yes, I know. That's the point. BMW went there becasu they could. but th epricing for the entry level cars was supposed to be lower. Check on what the E 30s were when new. Or even the E36 318 and 323.

Do you know how much a Mazdaspeed3 costs? Or a GTI? Are you seriously expecting BMW to start pricing their cars equal to or below Mazda? 

for their entry level cars, yes, at least closer to the GTi. That was the point of the 1 series. To get an entry level car that was no longer the $30k luxury model. But no, we're going to see the entry level car at 3 series prices. and at 3 series prices it's redundant.

So congratulations that you are willing to save money and buy a 20 year old used car rather than a new BMW.

Age doesn't matter, what the car DOES it what matters, and for the money, the E36 M3 is more BMW than a 1 series.

Unfortunately for you, BMW is not in the market position of being a value leader. Perhaps you would be better off shopping at the Hyundai dealership. 

No, perhaps I'd be better off buying a better value used BMW. Oh, wait, I did.

An entry level BMW should get people out of their old BMWs without having those existing BMW owners go to other brands. At $30k+, this one won't do that.

OTOH, it's depreciate like a stone, like all BMWs, so it'll make a great USED car value. Too bad for BMW, however.

[Raza]

"Age doesn't matter, what the car DOES it what matters, and for the money, the E36 M3 is more BMW than a 1 series."



God, I love that car.  I want a sedan version so badly. 

They don't get as good gas mileage, though they do cost several thousand less.

[LonghornTX]

the E36 M3 is more BMW than a 1 series.

As a huge E36 fan in general, I can say that there won't be one thing the M3 does that much better, and there will be alot that the 135i does a lot better, at least IMO.?

IMO, the e36 M3, especially the US model, is the least capable and desirable M3 model made (except for the 4-door model), but again that is just my opinion.

I own a 17 year old BMW and have owned it for close to 6 years now.? During that time I have become probably the biggest fan of the company that I know of, even working at a dealership for 10 months because of it; as I am sure you know, some of their cars have that affect on you.? Having said that, this car is more "BMW" than most other models they have released in close to 10 years IMO.

I am curious to know what exactly your qualm is.? For what this car offers, why would you consider it too expensive?? The 135i will likely start below the price of a top level 350Z, yet offer comparable or superior peformance in most categories, be able to seat more people, have a nicer interior, and a nicer warranty.

It starts just about the same price as the G37 sport.? While the G37 will be bigger, the 135i will have a sharper, more driver oriented ride.

However, taken out of context, I might tend to agree with you that BMW is "overpriced" sometimes.? They do, however, offer a premium product....

[MexicoCityM3]

Thanks? .? I really think this car is going to be a giant killer, capable of taking on (but maybe not beating) an E46 M3 in stock form around a track.? It will certainly take it in a straight line.

It will take an E46 M3 stock and will even come close to or match an E92 M3 with mods. Really tempting.

[MexicoCityM3]

for their entry level cars, yes, at least closer to the GTi. That was the point of the 1 series. To get an entry level car that was no longer the $30k luxury model. But no, we're going to see the entry level car at 3 series prices. and at 3 series prices it's redundant.

The 1 series hatch is priced to compete with the GTI. You can get a 120i (w/170 hp) for less than a 200hp VW GTI. It seems logical to me to price both the 128i and the 135i above the GTI. They are better cars.

[omicron]

As a weight guide for the 135i, a 130i 5-door manual weighs 1385kg / 3053lbs.

[SJ_GTI]

Actually teh basic 3 series WAS mainstream in it's priceing. that was teh point. BMW itself said there's never be a $30k plus 3 series, then they changed their? mind and started teh 3 on teh path to exotic car pricing with the E36 M3 and then the mainstram cars. The 2002 was mainstream in it's pricing in it's day and really was what gave teh company it's reputation. IN it's day, the 2000 CS and 3.0 CS were the high priced coupes.

BS. The 1992 318i started (before any options) at 22,900. A Toyota Camry XLE (4-banger) was 19,428. So the 318i was a 18% price premium. Today the Camry XLE V6 costs $28,020. Add an 18% price premium and you get...$33,063. What's the MSRP on a 328i sedan? An astounding $32,400. OMG, the horror, the horror!? So unless you are one of the few people who wants a 4-banger in their BMW the price differential today is about the same as it was 15 years ago.

yes, I know. That's the point. BMW went there becasu they could. but th epricing for the entry level cars was supposed to be lower. Check on what the E 30s were when new. Or even the E36 318 and 323.

See above.?

for their entry level cars, yes, at least closer to the GTi. That was the point of the 1 series. To get an entry level car that was no longer the $30k luxury model. But no, we're going to see the entry level car at 3 series prices. and at 3 series prices it's redundant.

I know you would think this is rediculous, but I paid roughly 28k for my GTI. Is it really unreasonable for BMW to price a car that will have 30 more HP and RWD a bit above my VW? The 130i in Europe is about the same price as an R32 (a bit more expensive).

Age doesn't matter, what the car DOES it what matters, and for the money, the E36 M3 is more BMW than a 1 series.

BS. No car built in 1992 is as nice as the one series will be. The 135 will walk all over anything outside of an E46 M3. Those M3's from 20 years ago can barely keep up with normal compact cars on a racetrack in instrumented testing. you may like the older cars, but that doesn't make them any good.

No, perhaps I'd be better off buying a better value used BMW. Oh, wait, I did.

You bought a 10 year old 7-series, not a 20 year old M3. I am also unimpressed by your implication that a 10 year old 7-series with an automatic and a V8 is remotely comparable to a new 1-series with a manual transmission and an I6.

An entry level BMW should get people out of their old BMWs without having those existing BMW owners go to other brands. At $30k+, this one won't do that.

More BS of course. BMW has some of the most loyal customers on the planet. They rely very heavily on repeat customers, just go walk into any dealership.

OTOH, it's depreciate like a stone, like all BMWs, so it'll make a great USED car value. Too bad for BMW, however.

BMW's have (historically) the lowest depreciation in the industry. The only company that has been competitive enough to take the title once in a while has been Acura. Your assumption that the 1-series will "depreciate like a stone" seems a bit dubious.

[Raza]

Faster isn't better.


(ducks...)

[SJ_GTI]

Faster isn't better.


(ducks...)

[MexicoCityM3]

Great post SJ_GTI .

[Raza]

You drive a GTI.  You should know that already.  If faster is better, than we'll have to change this to a Camry forum, since that's one fast fucker.

[MexicoCityM3]

You drive a GTI.? You should know that already.? If faster is better, than we'll have to change this to a Camry forum, since that's one fast fucker.

SJ_GTI said so much more than "faster is better". You are simplifying to a ridiculous extreme.

[omicron]

Brilliant.

[SJ_GTI]

You drive a GTI.? You should know that already.? If faster is better, than we'll have to change this to a Camry forum, since that's one fast fucker.

The difference is that the 135i will do practically everything better than an E30 M3, where as the only thing a Camry can do better than a GTI is go fast in a straight line (and I think you are exagerrating how fast it is).

The only thing that an older car could possibly do better is have better steering feedback. And if that is your sole measure, than you shouldn't be driving any new car.

[Raza]

SJ_GTI said so much more than "faster is better". You are simplifying to a ridiculous extreme.

More accurately, I'm zeroing in on what he said here:

"Those M3's from 20 years ago can barely keep up with normal compact cars on a racetrack in instrumented testing. you may like the older cars, but that doesn't make them any good."

Would you rather have an E36 M3 or a Toyota Corolla?  Or, say, a BMW 328i or a Toyota Camry V6? 

That sort of thing sticks out at me.  He probably didn't mean it the way I'm taking it, but I felt the need to put that out there.

[SJ_GTI]

More accurately, I'm zeroing in on what he said here:

"Those M3's from 20 years ago can barely keep up with normal compact cars on a racetrack in instrumented testing. you may like the older cars, but that doesn't make them any good."

Would you rather have an E36 M3 or a Toyota Corolla?? Or, say, a BMW 328i or a Toyota Camry V6??

That sort of thing sticks out at me.? He probably didn't mean it the way I'm taking it, but I felt the need to put that out there.

I'd rather have an MKV GTI than an E36 M3. I'd rather have an MS3 than an E36 M3. I'd rather have an E46 325i than an E36 M3. I'd rather have MKV GTI than an MKI GTI. I would rather have an MKV GTI than a Lamborghini Diablo. Etc etc etc...

Old cars, in general, are not very good by today's standards.

[Raza]

Good according to what metrics?? If you mean interaction, then I'd say there are a few members here, and a few members in the journalist community that would tend to disagree.? If you're talking about comfort, then that too is debatable.? Amenities and technology?? Then yeah, if that's so high on your list of requirements, then today's cars are much better than older ones.? But then again, most of today's cars, even the some performance ones, are rather boring.? You don't need fast to have an immensely fun car.? More often than not, fast doesn't really count for much.

[Danish]

BS. The 1992 318i started (before any options) at 22,900. A Toyota Camry XLE (4-banger) was 19,428. So the 318i was a 18% price premium. Today the Camry XLE V6 costs $28,020. Add an 18% price premium and you get...$33,063. What's the MSRP on a 328i sedan? An astounding $32,400. OMG, the horror, the horror!  So unless you are one of the few people who wants a 4-banger in their BMW the price differential today is about the same as it was 15 years ago.

You are using the 4 banger Camry from 1992 and the V6 from today.....

MSRP for the XLE 4 banger today is $24,900. Add the 18% and it comes to 29,382..... which is below $32,400