EVs

Started by Morris Minor, November 08, 2018, 04:03:12 AM

cawimmer430

Quote from: Morris Minor on March 16, 2021, 03:26:54 PM
There's a reason why Silicon Valley is located in the USA and not Germany: corporate culture there does not embrace the concept of experimentation, making mistakes and learning from them. There is almost no risk tolerance.
"Build their own operating system" and "hire 6,500 IT experts." illustrate the vastness of the extent to which they don't get it.
They need to move to Palo Alto or Sunnyvale, hire a few decent software engineers and start working 60 hour weeks.

Don't forget the insane taxes here.

Corporate taxes are at almost 16% here and those well-paid employees will have to give up almost 40% of their income as tax. Living costs are high here. Of the roughly 60% remaining income, a third or more will go to paying your rent. The rest can be used to pay for overpriced fuel (there are four different taxes on a liter of fuel), the highest electricity prices in the Western World (roughly 31 cents per kw/H) and daily goods which are slapped with a 19% VAT (7% if they're foods).

Oh, and every person living here is required by force to pay 18,36 Euro for pro-Merkel & pro-Green state propaganda on TV (Beitragsservice/GEZ/Rundfunkbeitrag) which also includes modern (but antiquatedin appearance) TV shows and soap operas that were uncool in the 1960s yet are still shown...

Germany has a problem - it's very expensive and unattractive for well-educated people to work here. Hard work is punished (with high taxes) and the insane bureaucracy prevents progress and quick decisions. Then, the morons in this country are voting Green which means a total eco dictatorship coming up.
-2018 Mercedes-Benz A250 AMG Line (W177)



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SJ_GTI

Quote from: cawimmer430 on March 17, 2021, 05:01:13 AM
Don't forget the insane taxes here.

Corporate taxes are at almost 16% here and those well-paid employees will have to give up almost 40% of their income as tax. Living costs are high here. Of the roughly 60% remaining income, a third or more will go to paying your rent. The rest can be used to pay for overpriced fuel (there are four different taxes on a liter of fuel), the highest electricity prices in the Western World (roughly 31 cents per kw/H) and daily goods which are slapped with a 19% VAT (7% if they're foods).

Oh, and every person living here is required by force to pay 18,36 Euro for pro-Merkel & pro-Green state propaganda on TV (Beitragsservice/GEZ/Rundfunkbeitrag) which also includes modern (but antiquatedin appearance) TV shows and soap operas that were uncool in the 1960s yet are still shown...

Germany has a problem - it's very expensive and unattractive for well-educated people to work here. Hard work is punished (with high taxes) and the insane bureaucracy prevents progress and quick decisions. Then, the morons in this country are voting Green which means a total eco dictatorship coming up.

Corporate income taxes are significantly higher in the US. They were slashed quite a bit recently down to 21% (from 35%), but there is noise among democrats to bring it back up to 28% (that is what Obama wanted to lower it to prior to Trump being elected). That is just the federal piece of course, states also have varying corporate tax rates.

Soup DeVille

Quote from: CaminoRacer on March 15, 2021, 09:57:45 AM
Adding 6 hours to the trip is only worth it if you can also enjoy the drive by taking interesting routes and see the sights along the way - true roadtrip style. Just tacking 6 hours onto a freeway route sucks.

"Having a relaxing drive" to me means taking the back roads, stopping at local diners or bars and having a good meal when I'm hungry, and going a little out of my way to enjoy the scenery.

Not spending an extra 6 hours waiting in a parking lot.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

CaminoRacer

Quote from: Soup DeVille on March 17, 2021, 05:09:49 PM
"Having a relaxing drive" to me means taking the back roads, stopping at local diners or bars and having a good meal when I'm hungry, and going a little out of my way to enjoy the scenery.

Not spending an extra 6 hours waiting in a parking lot.

Yes. Need to build out the charging network to support that style of traveling while charging
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

AutobahnSHO

There's a famous diner near Nashville that had charging station way back in 2011ish. People drove their Fiskers or whatever out there and charged while dining.
Will

r0tor

Quote from: Soup DeVille on March 17, 2021, 05:09:49 PM
"Having a relaxing drive" to me means taking the back roads, stopping at local diners or bars and having a good meal when I'm hungry, and going a little out of my way to enjoy the scenery.

Not spending an extra 6 hours waiting in a parking lot.

While true in some regards, a car that has autopilot makes things a while lot more relaxing while doing mindless interstate cruising
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

ChrisV

Quote from: Soup DeVille on March 17, 2021, 05:09:49 PM
"Having a relaxing drive" to me means taking the back roads, stopping at local diners or bars and having a good meal when I'm hungry, and going a little out of my way to enjoy the scenery.

Not spending an extra 6 hours waiting in a parking lot.

6 hours in a parking lot? Where do you get these ideas from? My wife recently took our Bolt from here in Baltimore to eastern CT (just SE of Norwich, nearly to the RI border) to see our grandkids. It's normally a 6 hour trip in a gas car. She stopped halfway up there and charged for a half hour. While she was charging, she ate, went in the store to use the restroom, and got on her laptop to do some work (she runs her own business). Not an onerous thing to do on a road trip.

Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection...

CaminoRacer

Quote from: ChrisV on April 02, 2021, 02:35:51 PM
6 hours in a parking lot? Where do you get these ideas from? My wife recently took our Bolt from here in Baltimore to eastern CT (just SE of Norwich, nearly to the RI border) to see our grandkids. It's normally a 6 hour trip in a gas car. She stopped halfway up there and charged for a half hour. While she was charging, she ate, went in the store to use the restroom, and got on her laptop to do some work (she runs her own business). Not an onerous thing to do on a road trip.



Veeman said it was an extra 6 hours throughout the trip, to get from New England down to Florida.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

r0tor

Question on the day...

Why in the world is no manufacturer making an affordable EV sports car - something like an MX5 or even 4cly Supra?  EVs and sports cars are best as a second car.  They both sell for a bit of a premium.  They are both best for small trips and Sunday drives.  An EV would also alleviate issues with sports cars owners having to keep batteries charged up and other maintenance when the car sits for extended periods of time.

This seems too obvious...


2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Morris Minor

Interesting discussion on a Facebook group here about the advantages & disadvantages of living at the higher elevations. One point that came up is the toll that it takes on brakes, brake rotors, and transmissions. This is where an EV's torque and regen braking would shine IMO.
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤

Soup DeVille

Quote from: ChrisV on April 02, 2021, 02:35:51 PM
6 hours in a parking lot? Where do you get these ideas from? My wife recently took our Bolt from here in Baltimore to eastern CT (just SE of Norwich, nearly to the RI border) to see our grandkids. It's normally a 6 hour trip in a gas car. She stopped halfway up there and charged for a half hour. While she was charging, she ate, went in the store to use the restroom, and got on her laptop to do some work (she runs her own business). Not an onerous thing to do on a road trip.



Not a comparable trip to what I was responding to though is it?
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator


CaminoRacer

#1152
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on May 04, 2021, 04:32:12 PM
https://www.businessinsider.com/electric-car-owners-switching-gas-charging-a-hassle-study-2021-4

I've literally never heard an EV owner complain about that? You plug the car in at night and it's ready to go in the morning, never even have to think about it for commuting.

I'm curious who the people complaining about that are. It would be nice to see if they have multiple cars in the household and a bunch of other details.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

r0tor

I could see the complaints if they didn't have a place to charge at night... In which case they probably shouldn't have bought an EV to begin with
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Morris Minor

Quote from: r0tor on May 04, 2021, 06:01:06 PM
I could see the complaints if they didn't have a place to charge at night... In which case they probably shouldn't have bought an EV to begin with
This is the strike against EVs - if you live somewhere where there's street parking only, it's not easy to charge an EV: public thoroughfare, public sidewalk.
Charge ports are often on the left of the car (eg Tesla BMW X5 hybrid.) Which is fine in countries that drive on the left.
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: CaminoRacer on May 04, 2021, 04:35:47 PM
I've literally never heard an EV owner complain about that? You plug the car in at night and it's ready to go in the morning, never even have to think about it for commuting.

I'm curious who the people complaining about that are. It would be nice to see if they have multiple cars in the household and a bunch of other details.

I'm sure there's a pretty good sized crowd.

But I'm betting it's like the people who switch from iPhone to Android & vice versa, then after a year or two switch back. People are fickle.

Just like people who buy a truck then later realize they don't want/need it, or a little car, etc...   Lots of people don't plan things through and have buyer remorse later.
Will

afty

I mean, 80% of those EV owners bought another EV.  That's a pretty good retention rate when EVs were only 3-5% of the market at the time of the study.

FoMoJo

Quote from: Morris Minor on May 04, 2021, 07:44:29 PM
This is the strike against EVs - if you live somewhere where there's street parking only, it's not easy to charge an EV: public thoroughfare, public sidewalk.
Charge ports are often on the left of the car (eg Tesla BMW X5 hybrid.) Which is fine in countries that drive on the left.
Condos as well.  I doubt many will install outlets in their underground parking for each stall.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

Morris Minor

Quote from: FoMoJo on May 04, 2021, 09:02:37 PM
Condos as well.  I doubt many will install outlets in their underground parking for each stall.
My guess is that governments will put all sorts of inducements in the tax code to help things along: subsides, credits, deductions.

This assumes that the underlying electricity grids can handle it.
The BMW X5 xDrive45e PHEV has a painfully slow charge rate - onboard charger is only 3.8 kW. The ugly gossip is that it's because Germany's grid can't handle the loads. Reasons for that would merit a long Wimmer rant.  :lol:
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤

SJ_GTI

Quote from: Morris Minor on May 05, 2021, 06:03:46 AM
My guess is that governments will put all sorts of inducements in the tax code to help things along: subsides, credits, deductions.

This assumes that the underlying electricity grids can handle it.
The BMW X5 xDrive45e PHEV has a painfully slow charge rate - onboard charger is only 3.8 kW. The ugly gossip is that it's because Germany's grid can't handle the loads. Reasons for that would merit a long Wimmer rant.  :lol:

I think it will depend on how the tech develops. I feel like researchers are looking at ways to both increase energy storage/density, but they are also looking for ways to speed up charging. If EV's get closer to the time it takes to refuel at a gas station there would be no reason to have EV chargers available for every domecile or parking spot.

Of course owning your own house/garage with your own charging station will always be preferable. One of the benefits of EV's is of course that you can fuel at home and you don't have to even go to the gas station.

MrH

They said 70% of the people that switched back only had access to level 1 chargers.  Well no shit.  People are trying to charge these at home off just a standard 120 volt outlet???
2023 Ford Lightning Lariat ER
2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

r0tor

Quote from: Morris Minor on May 05, 2021, 06:03:46 AM
My guess is that governments will put all sorts of inducements in the tax code to help things along: subsides, credits, deductions.

This assumes that the underlying electricity grids can handle it.
The BMW X5 xDrive45e PHEV has a painfully slow charge rate - onboard charger is only 3.8 kW. The ugly gossip is that it's because Germany's grid can't handle the loads. Reasons for that would merit a long Wimmer rant.  :lol:

The future of the electric grid is distributed generation (ie local solar/wind on houses/businesses) vs the present day point source generation.  It's a gigantic win-win for the grid as failures have less impact and transmission congestion decreases. 
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

CaminoRacer

Quote from: MrH on May 05, 2021, 07:54:28 AM
They said 70% of the people that switched back only had access to level 1 chargers.  Well no shit.  People are trying to charge these at home off just a standard 120 volt outlet???

That's what I do and it works fine for our needs. I don't even turn it up to 12 amps, just the basic 8 amps/120v. My wife's commute is only 11 miles each way (22 mi/day), and it can charge like 50 miles overnight if we don't go out during the evening. Really only have to plug it in every other day. And over the weekends it gets even more charge.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

AutobahnSHO

I drive 20miles, so 120v would be fine for me. But the dryer is also on the other side of the garage wall right where any EV would park so I could just throw a few wires through...  :hmm:
Will

AutobahnSHO

saw an all battery Mustang today. Looks just like all the other SUVs out there.   :huh:
Will

Laconian

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on May 05, 2021, 08:03:53 PM
saw an all battery Mustang today. Looks just like all the other SUVs out there.   :huh:

It's not a try-hard truck wannabe though. I think it's handsome.
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

AutobahnSHO

This one was silver, pretty boring. I like the non-boring-four colors.
Will

Morris Minor

Quote from: Laconian on May 05, 2021, 09:15:25 PM
It's not a try-hard truck wannabe though. I think it's handsome.
Sandy Munro did his grumpy-geezer review of a Mach E - put it up on a lift - and really liked what he saw "I can't believe this is a Ford" He decided to buy one and rip it down to its components.
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤

MX793

Quote from: Morris Minor on May 06, 2021, 05:51:21 AM
Sandy Munro did his grumpy-geezer review of a Mach E - put it up on a lift - and really liked what he saw "I can't believe this is a Ford" He decided to buy one and rip it down to its components.

Every review I've seen has basically been "wow, Ford actually put in the effort to make a Tesla competitor instead of half-assing it to satisfy emissions regs and this is really good".
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

afty

The Mach-E is nice, I would consider one for our next car.  We'll need to replace my wife's Sorento in the next year or so.