(http://i.imgur.com/I8YEYpg.jpg)
Auto base 328i. Is (was?) on the next car list. Initial thoughts
^ = positive, - = neutral, v = negative
^ Engine sounds better than expected. No Active Sound bullshit I don't think. Doesn't quite sound like a 4 banger. Wish it was a little louder
^ Engine has good pull. Doesn't feel much weaker than the E90 335xi I drove. Easily on the level of the Z.
^ IDrive works great, pretty much just like Mazda system with no touch screen.
- Definitely a little turbo lag.... Peak torque does not come on anywhere near 2000 RPM or whatever. Prob regular 3 or so. When it hits it hits hard though. Just have to keep it on the boil or in sport mode
- Auto stop between lights is not too bad, but not too great either.
- Interior bigger than E90, but not by much. Definitely wider and the dash is deeper.
- Very refined. Nice and quiet on the highway
v Chassis seems inert so far which I'm a little shocked about. It's the luxury trim I think but still. Went over some kind of road undulation at speed and got a floaty sensation. Definitely don't get the hunkered down planted feel I'd expect from a "driver's car"... can definitely see why people were disappointed. Regular E90 335xi I drove and definitely the E60 535i w/sport package I drove felt waaayyyyyy more dialed in. This almost doesn't feel like a BMW.
v Something about the driver's seat upper cushion contour feels weird. Maybe I slouch too much. Not enough lumbar support
v No steering feel whatsoever though the weight is OK
v Feels bigger than it is... very weird
Have to figure out how to check fuel economy.... so far, not disappointed, just confused. It's good at everything except what I think of when I think BMW
More impressions to come
Pretty sure all turbo bimmers have the sound symposer coming through the speakers these days.
IDK man, non Sport trim E90's are also pretty smooth. :huh:
Also steering feels light, but I don't know if I'd agree with "no feel whatsoever". That makes it sound like a Toyota Corolla. Those balloon tires aren't helping.
Secondly, that 8AT has a very low 1st gear, and it's reluctant to change and be in the right place sometimes.
yeah but are the paddle shifters on the wheel or column
Yeah, I way prefer the steering on my dad's E60 (and my GTI). The engine is fantastic, though. Absolutely shits on my car's 2.0T.
Quote from: 2o6 on February 23, 2017, 04:37:50 PM
IDK man, non Sport trim E90's are also pretty smooth. :huh:
Also steering feels light, but I don't know if I'd agree with "no feel whatsoever". That makes it sound like a Toyota Corolla. Those balloon tires aren't helping.
Secondly, that 8AT has a very low 1st gear, and it's reluctant to change and be in the right place sometimes.
Its possible my Civic has completely thrown my suspension feel calibration
Most of the time it's mostly buttoned down, but it doesn't feel much tighter if at all than the Accord/Golf/3 I drove earlier. ITs def closer to those than the Civic, which is probably fair and more my problem than the car
That lag may have been Comfort mode + slow kickdown. I will play with it in manual mode
FWIW I agree with your suspension comments. I drove one (and a 228i) back to back with an S3 and thought the S3 was more more fun to drive.
Engine was OK but matched to a slushbox it felt more sluggish than the unit in the S3 with its DSG.
It would have been nice to drive one with a manual and the sport suspension to get a more apples to apples comparison but that was all that was available.
I will try one with a sport suspension when I get back home. I think I'm starting to get a little disappointed though. It's just not there dynamically. It's not terrible, but back to back with that E60 535i, which was exactly what I thought/hoped a BMW sedan would drive like, it's a little bit of a letdown. Outside of that it's excellent though, but then so are a lot of cars. The more I drive it the more I'm leaning towards a GTI... no way will I fuck with a 7-8 year old BMW
Figured out how to do the voice commands so I'll see how well that works tomorrow. IDrive is a PITA to enter destinations with
Lumbar support should be adjustable. E46s had a 4 way button pad to adjust it.
More thoughts.....
Found some places to push a little bit. Definitely squishy! Feels like the springs/shocks are OK, but the subframe & control arm bushings are made out of chewing gum. Whole car squirms with any kind of deflection under load.... more so than any recent rental I've had barring maybe the Cactus. Pushed the engine in manual mode.... transmission is pretty snappy.... I was impressed. Engine has convincing pull too. Car just seems happier in comfort mode though
Voice commands work OK but not quite great. I searched for a Kroger and it gave me one in Ohio :wtf: Bluetooth pairing was a little wonky as well.... it recognized my phone and connected, and said it was playing music, but no sound. Had to re-pair it for music to play. Speaking of the stereo, not bad. It got close to 25Hz for sure, though it was a little scratchy up top.
Kind of disappointed with the features though. This has to be a $40K car. No rear view camera? No heated seats? It's not much better equipped than that Focus wagon I had in France, which probably cost 50-60% of the price. Interior build quality is probably on par with a VW as well. For the money I'm thinking a TLX V6 would be a way better buy, and I'm feeling like a mainstreamer with the same power would not be much less satisfying to own. Such a weird car :confused:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 24, 2017, 07:57:26 AM
For the money I'm thinking a TLX V6 would be a way better buy,
Have you driven one yet? Somehow I'm still curious about that ZF 9-speed for some reason
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Naw and if I went the TLX route I'd probably get the 4. I'm still curious about the 200 V6
TLX is like at the bottom of the reliability pile?
Quote from: Laconian on February 24, 2017, 11:22:35 AM
TLX is like at the bottom of the reliability pile?
Owner satisfaction
Quote from: Laconian on February 24, 2017, 11:22:35 AM
TLX is like at the bottom of the reliability pile?
I think that's just boomer infotainment frustration. Mechanicals are out of the dead reliable Accord
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 24, 2017, 11:49:14 AM
I think that's just boomer infotainment frustration. Mechanicals are out of the dead reliable Accord
That 9AT is not good.
Quote from: 2o6 on February 24, 2017, 11:51:15 AM
That 9AT is not good.
Not good at all. Almost CVT bad.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on February 24, 2017, 12:15:45 PM
Not good at all. Almost CVT bad.
I meant as far as longevity. Those 9AT cars have issues
Quote from: 2o6 on February 24, 2017, 12:54:57 PM
I meant as far as longevity. Those 9AT cars have issues
I mean that, too.
Quote from: 2o6 on February 24, 2017, 12:54:57 PM
I meant as far as longevity. Those 9AT cars have issues
Honda still can't build a transmission?
Quote from: Raza on February 24, 2017, 06:11:01 PM
Honda still can't build a transmission?
I believe it is built by ZF - the same transmission is also found in Chrysler products.
The 9AT in the new Pilot is similarly getting awful reviews.
Jesus, there's no excuse for it.
I swear I must have spent 30-45 minutes today pairing and re-pairing the Bluetooth to my phone
What a disaster. I have a $15 BT dongle that fires up every time, what is BMW doing. Idrive is not getting better either. How is Mazda able to get it right for 1/2 the price? Complete dealbreaker.
I never had a problem with any of the F30's I've driven.
Well I did
Honda has a 10 speed which is an all in house design debuting in the new Odyssey, hopefully it won't be terrible. Having driven the V6 TLX, I can confirm that the automatic is the worst part of the car and pretty annoying. The rest of it is 80/85% to a great car.
4 banger in the Accord was probably its best dynamic attribute, so I imagine the TLX 4 banger + DCT would be pretty good. Though if people are bitching about the infotainment, which does appear to be a mess, that could be a damn deal breaker too
4 bangers have come a long fucking way in just like 10 years though, Jesus Christ. Accord got the same gas mileage as Civic with like 30% more power/torque, 3er is probably doing about the same (on premium tho) with 2x power/torque.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 25, 2017, 02:53:03 AM
4 banger in the Accord was probably its best dynamic attribute, so I imagine the TLX 4 banger + DCT would be pretty good. Though if people are bitching about the infotainment, which does appear to be a mess, that could be a damn deal breaker too
It's fortunately not as bad as the Accord's.
OK, so we are out tomorrow, returning it in the morning. But I think I have formulated my final thoughts.
Final pros:
- Powertrain + transmission are awesome. Modern 4 bangers are good, ZF8 is great for an auto
- Good car in general sense. Roomy, comfortable, decent build quality (though for a like 30-40K car, not a 60-80K one)
Final cons:
- IDrive is better but still finicky AF. May need more time to learn wheel gestures and voice control. Finally got BT working though.
- Def doesn't have even a hint of that BMW magic dynamically. Anodyne and soft with confidence sapping wiggles as you approach the limit
Overall conclusion:
Good as a general car, but in this config not worth premium over something like a V6 Accord at all. Def an eye opener for me personally as well. I think I can live without stickshift.... that 535i had a 6AT and was awesome. But I def can't do something soft + isolated. I wanna try one of these with the sport package... could be a good fit. A little disappointed though. But I'm glad I got to spend the time with it
:wtf: The following are options in this car:
- Power seats
- Sunroof!
- Keyless entry!!!!
- Bluetooth!!!!
- USB port!!
For serious? I was thinking this was like a $37K car, this thing might be knocking on $45K-50!!!!!! No way. For real BMW?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 25, 2017, 10:06:55 PM
:wtf: The following are options in this car:
- Power seats
- Sunroof!
- Keyless entry!!!!
- Bluetooth!!!!
- USB port!!
For serious? I was thinking this was like a $37K car, this thing might be knocking on $45K-50!!!!!! No way. For real BMW?
BMW is notorious for A-la carte options.
Also, this looks like a Comfort car (not a Luxury trim one).
FWIW, it being a rental is probably why iDrive is so finicky. Some of those systems get confused when they see hundreds of phones over the span of a short amount of time. I drove a new Cruze loaner car that got kind of confused
iDrive is definitely the best infotainment I've used. I've also had no problems with BT
I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. Once we got it working it was not bad and I think with mastering voice commands it would be a lot faster to use.
I think they went too far in tuning for comfort though. They could have kept it the same level of softness but just furmed up the body motions and bushings a little more. A stock Accord non-Sport is seriously more buttoned down
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 26, 2017, 01:15:25 PM
I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. Once we got it working it was not bad and I think with mastering voice commands it would be a lot faster to use.
I think they went too far in tuning for comfort though. They could have kept it the same level of softness but just furmed up the body motions and bushings a little more. A stock Accord non-Sport is seriously more buttoned down
Drive a non Sport E90, though. I'm telling you, the E90 in non sport trim is pretty benign
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 24, 2017, 07:57:26 AM
Kind of disappointed with the features though. This has to be a $40K car. No rear view camera? No heated seats? It's not much better equipped than that Focus wagon I had in France, which probably cost 50-60% of the price. Interior build quality is probably on par with a VW as well.
Interior wise BMW has been getting away with murder for decades..........
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 24, 2017, 09:26:17 PM
I swear I must have spent 30-45 minutes today pairing and re-pairing the Bluetooth to my phone
What a disaster. I have a $15 BT dongle that fires up every time, what is BMW doing. Idrive is not getting better either. How is Mazda able to get it right for 1/2 the price? Complete dealbreaker.
What has this world come to? "It was hard once to turn my car into a phone. I'm never driving again!!!!!!!!" For me a dealbreaker is when a car drives like crap or has piss poor visibility.
Quote from: Raza on February 26, 2017, 06:55:35 PM
What has this world come to? "It was hard once to turn my car into a phone. I'm never driving again!!!!!!!!" For me a dealbreaker is when a car drives like crap or has piss poor visibility.
Any reason is rationale enough to go back to the I4 Accord Coupe.
Quote from: Laconian on February 26, 2017, 06:58:17 PM
Any reason is rationale enough to go back to the I4 Accord Coupe.
:lol:
Quote from: Raza on February 26, 2017, 06:55:35 PM
What has this world come to? "It was hard once to turn my car into a phone. I'm never driving again!!!!!!!!" For me a dealbreaker is when a car drives like crap or has piss poor visibility.
How can a car driving like crap be a dealbreaker for you when you like the TT and 9-3 Viggen
And yea I listen to a lot of music and use my phone for navigation. Bluetooth matters
I find the current 3er and 5er interiors to be of a high quality standard. While they might not have the wow factor of say the current Mercedes C/E-Class cabins, they're well-made and the materials used definitely feel premium. I think the word to use for BMW interiors is understated/serious - nothing fancy in terms of visual design, but they make up for that with good ergonomics.
This is my 2007 118i interior (no Photoshop was used in this image!) holding up well after almost 10 years. I realize that this cabin is eclipsed in terms of wow-factor/perceived material quality by the VW Golf, MB A-Class, Lexus CT200h etc., but it doesn't bother me. The ergonomics and layout are superb and the build quality is great.
(https://s1.postimg.org/emaxaszcv/CWF0003_1.jpg)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 27, 2017, 05:51:33 AM
How can a car driving like crap be a dealbreaker for you when you like the TT and 9-3 Viggen
Swing and a miss.
"The Saab is the lightest car of the group, and it drives like it. This is a nimble car—note its comparo-leading 66.3-mph speed through the emergency lane change. The steering maintains good path accuracy, allowing you to lob the Saab hard into corners. Its revised suspension is stiff-riding, yet the body rolls and bounces too much. It never loses its composure, however, and the brakes are forgiving. You can overcome the driveline's foibles with practice, a challenge that some drivers found stimulating. "One of the more exciting cars in the bunch, but not always for the right reasons," wrote a test driver."
Homeboy, as far as I know, you've never driven any Saab, but you think you know everything about them? Come on, son.
And the TT has its own charm as well; starting with being a work of art to look at, which matters (to some people, obviously not to everyone otherwise no one would buy any of these shitty looking cars like the Murano and Juke), and having a bit of a fun, predictable, and controllable way to mess around with it. It doesn't light your hair on fire, it's not that sharp, it's probably not even that communicative (it's been a long time since I've driven a TT, memories fade), but driving one of those does something to you that a lot of other cars cannot replicate.
But how can I expect someone who has basically only driven and only wants to drive Honda Accords to understand why someone would enjoy a car that has charm and personality rather than one that just does everything competently? There's nothing wrong with Honda Accords. They're great cars; quick, competent, practical, and reliable. But they're not exciting, they're not charming, and they're not beautiful. So you can have your cell phone mate with your Camry on coilovers and I'll take the interesting cars.
Oh snap.
triggered
Quote from: 68_427 on February 28, 2017, 01:24:50 AM
triggered
Yep. He's pissy because he knows the Viggen is not the answer. It was 2nd to last in the comparo he quoted, behind the worst M3 and 2nd worst S4.... both of which I would much rather do than the Viggen. Not sure what the snow fear is about.... get some good tires; I'm sure somewhere in Philly will store and replace your summers with snows when needed. Done and done. Only I am allowed to make poor car choices here, I can't let Raza go out like that.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 28, 2017, 04:43:42 AM
Yep. He's pissy because he knows the Viggen is not the answer. It was 2nd to last in the comparo he quoted, behind the worst M3 and 2nd worst S4.... both of which I would much rather do than the Viggen. Not sure what the snow fear is about.... get some good tires; I'm sure somewhere in Philly will store and replace your summers with snows when needed. Done and done. Only I am allowed to make poor car choices here, I can't let Raza go out like that.
That's a bit unfair as well, since at the time they were the best both companies offered. So instead of thinking of it being behind 4 gens of M3s and 3 gens of S4s, it was 3rd right behind the
best that Germany offered at the time.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 28, 2017, 04:43:42 AM
Yep. He's pissy because he knows the Viggen is not the answer. It was 2nd to last in the comparo he quoted, behind the worst M3 and 2nd worst S4.... both of which I would much rather do than the Viggen. Not sure what the snow fear is about.... get some good tires; I'm sure somewhere in Philly will store and replace your summers with snows when needed. Done and done. Only I am allowed to make poor car choices here, I can't let Raza go out like that.
:rolleyes:
Quote from: 68_427 on February 28, 2017, 04:50:07 AM
That's a bit unfair as well, since at the time they were the best both companies offered. So instead of thinking of it being behind 4 gens of M3s and 3 gens of S4s, it was 3rd right behind the best that Germany offered at the time.
A fair point I guess. My overall point being though if you're gonna buy a 15-16 year old daily driver there are better choices. OK, even limiting for FWD/AWD + manuals, there's the Maxima (with the same power + an LSD), S4, golden era Hondas (RSX-S/ITR/TL/TSX/GS-R sedan), Volvo S60R etc. The Viggen wasn't even the best out in its hey day
Modern bimmers don't drive like they should anymore unless configured right. Adaptive suspension is a must. Luxury line :zzz:
No way configured right en F30 handles worse than an E60. Maybe your memories of that have an added shine of nostalgia.
Re: complains about pricing/equipment. BMW has always been that way.
If looking to spend less go for a 320i. The power difference to a 328i is negligible and a cheap tune away. One of our partners has one. It pulls well enough.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 28, 2017, 06:35:20 AM
A fair point I guess. My overall point being though if you're gonna buy a 15-16 year old daily driver there are better choices. OK, even limiting for FWD/AWD + manuals, there's the Maxima (with the same power + an LSD), S4, golden era Hondas (RSX-S/ITR/TL/TSX/GS-R sedan), Volvo S60R etc. The Viggen wasn't even the best out in its hey day
TSX is an interesting choice. I really like the RSX-S (but it's not a sedan, which hurts it), but they look and feel a bit dinky these days. They were a lot more economy car than I remembered. Integras...you know Patek Philippe slogan "You don't own one, you just hold it for the next generation"? Integras are like that, but it's less the next generation and more the next car thief. S4s are a bit pudding; fast, but really heavy, and they feel like big repair bills are always right around the corner. Same with the S60R/V70R (the V70R would even make getting an SUV unnecessary, which would be a money saver).
However, you can't really discount the emotional connection I had with the Viggen the second I drove one. It's a truly special car and has something that can't be captured on a spec sheet. It would be way under budget, which means I'd have plenty extra for repairs, and it would give me a chance to own a really interesting and rare car before they're all gone for good.
I'll probably end up with a MkVI Golf R or an Evo X, but it's a thought.
My money would be a B6 S4 with a blown engine, plop in a new engine with some tweaks, clutch, high bias torrent diff, rear lsd, exhaust, brakes, and a mild coilover kit... Probably can do it for $15-20k and have one hell of a ride and most of all the pricey repairs are many many years away
$20K, he can prob swing for a 996 C4 + IMS replacement
TSX is OK, but a little heavy for its motor (3300lbs, 200 lb, 170 or so lb-ft). I'd only look at one if you'd be willing to mod it... stock, its about where my car is modded (low 7 0-60) and not much faster than your old Passat.
I still think the E39 M5 is legit.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 28, 2017, 06:49:41 PM
$20K, he can prob swing for a 996 C4 + IMS replacement
TSX is OK, but a little heavy for its motor (3300lbs, 200 lb, 170 or so lb-ft). I'd only look at one if you'd be willing to mod it... stock, its about where my car is modded (low 7 0-60) and not much faster than your old Passat.
I still think the E39 M5 is legit.
All else equal, a FWD car is going to perform better than a RWD car in inclement weather, and an AWD car will do better than both. I have a sports car. Why bother with the hassle and cost of buying a second set of wheels, storing them, getting the tires mounted and balanced, et al when I can hop in a real sports car whenever I want? I mean, an AWD with all seasons is more than capable for anything the Northeast has seen in the last 5 years. Driving my brother's S4 in the snow was a revelatory experience. I mean, it was like there was no snow on the ground at all. And people were spinning out, getting stuck, crying on the side of the road, screaming "WHY!!??" to the heavens, and so on and so forth. I'm not trading in my Z4, I'm adding a vehicle to the garage.
Frontrunners:
(https://s1.cdn.autoevolution.com/images/gallery/VOLKSWAGENGolfVIR5Doors-4175_10.jpg)
(http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t282/wisnia628/040111164941.jpg)
Stuff like an M5 or a 911 aren't fit for my purposes. A 911 would make sense (C4 Cabrio) if I were selling the Z4, an M5 would make sense if I were in a BMW film circa 2002. An S4, especially avant would make some sense (hell, even an A4 2.0T Avant wouldn't be a bad choice), but if my brother's B8 S4 is any indication, it's a bit soft for my tastes. I always prefer to drive my car over his, even if his is faster.
Viggen would just be a cool, if maintenance intensive, distractions from the trappings of my soon-to-be new career.
OK Im done trolling
I feel like the Golf R will be too anodyne.... I just don't trust anybody who buys an EVO. If the Viggen is game I would def do a TSX.... since they are out of warranty there's no excuse not to mod them. Plus I thought the Viggen was crazy fast.... 7 sec 0-60? TSX is just as fast stock and better in every way
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 02, 2017, 04:19:21 PM
OK Im done trolling
I feel like the Golf R will be too anodyne.... I just don't trust anybody who buys an EVO. If the Viggen is game I would def do a TSX.... since they are out of warranty there's no excuse not to mod them. Plus I thought the Viggen was crazy fast.... 7 sec 0-60? TSX is just as fast stock and better in every way
6.5 to 60, but that's basically down to traction.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 24, 2017, 09:26:17 PM
I swear I must have spent 30-45 minutes today pairing and re-pairing the Bluetooth to my phone
"user error"
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 02, 2017, 04:19:21 PM
OK Im done trolling
I feel like the Golf R will be too anodyne.... I just don't trust anybody who buys an EVO. If the Viggen is game I would def do a TSX.... since they are out of warranty there's no excuse not to mod them. Plus I thought the Viggen was crazy fast.... 7 sec 0-60? TSX is just as fast stock and better in every way
TSX is worse from 0-60 (mid to high 7's), but it's probably a more composed car all around. Smooth and zingy.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 02, 2017, 04:19:21 PM
OK Im done trolling
I feel like the Golf R will be too anodyne.... I just don't trust anybody who buys an EVO. If the Viggen is game I would def do a TSX.... since they are out of warranty there's no excuse not to mod them. Plus I thought the Viggen was crazy fast.... 7 sec 0-60? TSX is just as fast stock and better in every way
Did you forget the Viggen is from the 90's?