Jesus imaginary Christ. (https://www.germancarforum.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.legacy/drool.gif) (https://www.germancarforum.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.legacy/drool.gif) (https://www.germancarforum.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies.legacy/drool.gif)
You know, I took my A250 for a drive today predominantly in SPORT MODE - so fast, so much fun. I can only imagine how badass the A35 AMG is, and how totally BRUTAL the A45 AMG is going to be. Holy crap!
2020 Mercedes-AMG A45 Tackles The Nürburgring Virtually Undisguised
The next-generation Mercedes-AMG A45 has made yet another appearance at the Nürburgring, this time with less camouflage than ever before.
The only parts of the car that are still covered with tape are the front end, side skirts, lower rear bumper, and roof spoiler. Speaking of the latter, it's a less conspicuous version of the massive wing we've seen on other A45 prototypes. This could indicate we're dealing with the lower-powered base model.
(https://images.carscoops.com/2019/05/9d8392da-2020-mercedes-amg-a45-spy-shots-1.jpg)
Unlike the current model, the 2.0-liter turbocharged four-cylinder gasoline engine in the 2020 A45 will come in two states of tune. According to data from German insurance company HUK-Coburg, the base model will offer 387 PS (382 hp) while the range-topping Mercedes-AMG A45 S will deliver 421 PS (415 hp) using a tweaked version of the same engine.
The base model will, therefore, offer 81 PS (80 hp) more than the Mercedes-AMG A35 but that won't be the only difference. The A45 will also feature a beefier body kit with more aggressive bumpers, broader wheel-arches, and quad exhaust pipes — not to mention the Panamericana grille that the A35 doesn't have access to.
(https://images.carscoops.com/2019/05/bf44f99b-2020-mercedes-amg-a45-spy-shots-2.jpg)
Regardless of the version, the second-generation Mercedes-AMG A45 will be a cut above its predecessor from a performance standpoint. The outgoing model needs 4.2 seconds to cover the 0 to 100 km/h (62 mph) sprint and the new one will likely shave several tenths off that time. Top speed is likely to remain electronically limited to 250 km/h (155 mph), although the A45 S could offer the option of an unrestricted top speed.
As with the first-generation model, the 4Matic all-wheel-drive system will be standard. The big news, however, is the addition of a drift mode which should make things a lot more interesting. The eight-speed dual-clutch transmission will also be a welcome addition compared to the seven-speed unit in the outgoing A45.
(https://images.carscoops.com/2019/05/ab52afc7-2020-mercedes-amg-a45-spy-shots-5.jpg)
(https://images.carscoops.com/2019/05/72280d0d-2020-mercedes-amg-a45-spy-shots-8.jpg)
Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2019/05/2020-mercedes-amg-a45-tackles-the-nurburgring-virtually-undisguised/
415hp from a 2.0L
Wow but....
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on May 25, 2019, 04:16:59 PM
415hp from a 2.0L
Wow but....
I know, I know. The engine is probably gonna fall apart after 20,000 miles! :lol:
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on May 25, 2019, 04:16:59 PM
415hp from a 2.0L
Wow but....
That stood out to me as well.
Are high horsepower-per-liter outputs a long-term reliability issue in this day and age? I would think the correct materials and beefed-up engine construction can mitigate a potential high horsepower-per-liter tune.
Over 200HP/L is generally uncharted territory. Only car I can think of that comes close is the latest Ferrari V8TT... and that's a Ferrari
The power is kind of irrelevant IMO... one 2.0T is not much different from any other in sound or character, which are both lacking in this engine config.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 29, 2019, 01:10:15 PM
Over 200HP/L is generally uncharted territory. Only car I can think of that comes close is the latest Ferrari V8TT... and that's a Ferrari
The power is kind of irrelevant IMO... one 2.0T is not much different from any other in sound or character, which are both lacking in this engine config.
Back in the early 2000s there was a limited edition Mitsubishi Lancer FQ-450 (2.0 turbo-4, 450-hp). Yeah, limited edition and probably picked up by enthusiasts who can repair the engine themselves if stuff goes wrong and/or simply don't care about reliability. Working on their cars is part of their hobby. :tounge:
Quote from: cawimmer430 on May 29, 2019, 01:40:24 PM
Back in the early 2000s there was a limited edition Mitsubishi Lancer FQ-450 (2.0 turbo-4, 450-hp). Yeah, limited edition and probably picked up by enthusiasts who can repair the engine themselves if stuff goes wrong and/or simply don't care about reliability. Working on their cars is part of their hobby. :tounge:
The 4.7 TT V8 in my dads SL550 makes 14 more horsepower than this 2.0. Wild.
Quote from: Submariner on May 29, 2019, 02:07:27 PM
The 4.7 TT V8 in my dads SL550 makes 14 more horsepower than this 2.0. Wild.
AMG has gone completely mental. :lol:
Quote from: cawimmer430 on May 29, 2019, 01:40:24 PM
Back in the early 2000s there was a limited edition Mitsubishi Lancer FQ-450 (2.0 turbo-4, 450-hp). Yeah, limited edition and probably picked up by enthusiasts who can repair the engine themselves if stuff goes wrong and/or simply don't care about reliability. Working on their cars is part of their hobby. :tounge:
All the 4G63 blocks have issues with the crankshaft walking back and forth on the main bearings, but that doesn't seem specific to high output engines.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 31, 2019, 02:30:51 PM
All the 4G63 blocks have issues with the crankshaft walking back and forth on the main bearings, but that doesn't seem specific to high output engines.
(http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/9/1/2/crankwalk_haha_114.jpg)
Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 31, 2019, 02:30:51 PM
All the 4G63 blocks have issues with the crankshaft walking back and forth on the main bearings, but that doesn't seem specific to high output engines.
Damn. Had no idea those cars suffered from that.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on June 01, 2019, 04:20:53 AM
Damn. Had no idea those cars suffered from that.
A notorious killer of DSMs.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on June 01, 2019, 02:44:19 PM
DSMs?
Diamond Star Motor cars, ones made by the joint venture between Chrysler and Mitsubishi.
Sorry no pics but a Lotus Evora 400 in a crazy pistachio green (a Lamborghini color I believe) blatting through the mountain roads of GA. A glorious sound.
Quote from: Laconian on June 01, 2019, 04:21:54 PM
Diamond Star Motor cars, ones made by the joint venture between Chrysler and Mitsubishi.
Ah, I remember those days. Just have not heard that name in ages!
A little more info on the engine...Mercedes-AMG unveils most powerful four-cylinder engine ever (https://www.msn.com/en-ca/autos/enthusiasts/mercedes-amg-unveils-most-powerful-four-cylinder-engine-ever/ar-AACwxnE?ocid=spartandhp)
(https://i.postimg.cc/tTm7c943/AACuSru.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qB3KzZB1/AACv0gp.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/s2bXzsWs/AACuSra.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/T3wYWpqT/AACv75f.jpg)
I already don't like the design. More cost cutting, less reliability, junk. :pee:
How reliable are the first gen CLA/GLA 45s? I feel like this thing will be a rolling hand grenade and 5 year old examples still running the original stock engine will be unicorns.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on June 07, 2019, 01:27:16 PM
I already don't like the design. More cost cutting, less reliability, junk. :pee:
Quote from: Xer0 on June 07, 2019, 01:30:23 PM
How reliable are the first gen CLA/GLA 45s? I feel like this thing will be a rolling hand grenade and 5 year old examples still running the original stock engine will be unicorns.
Lighter but more robust is the claim :huh:.
Engine block as sturdy as a diesel.
Quote from: Xer0 on June 07, 2019, 01:30:23 PM
How reliable are the first gen CLA/GLA 45s? I feel like this thing will be a rolling hand grenade and 5 year old examples still running the original stock engine will be unicorns.
With turbo cars I think what a potential buyer needs to worry about the most is how the turbo was treated by the first owner(s).
What I understand is that a turbo engine needs to be driven warm, and later after high-speed driving it needs to be "driven cold". So basically, no short trips and allow the engine oil to reach its operating temperature. And more crucially, after a high-speed Autobahn (or racetrack) drive, don't just pull over to the side and turn off the engine. Slow down to 120-130 km/h maybe 2-5 km before you plan on turning off the motor and allow the air-flow to cool down the turbo and oil.
I love driving my A250 fast on the Autobahn, but I also make sure to slow down and allow the turbo to cool when I know I'm going to pull over somewhere and turn off the engine. And no short trips. So whoever is going to buy my A250 after me will get a well-treated car! :ohyeah:
Those AMG engine blocks are by default tough and sturdy. But the turbo(s) will probably be the weakspot and its condition will most likely solely depend on how the first owner(s) treated the engine. Drive the engine warm, drive the turbo cold.
Many turbos are water/coolant cooled now. Don't know about MB turbos. Most owners likely have no idea about turbos or even if their vehicles have one, so any extra care concerning a turbo engine is never even considered.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 08, 2019, 07:00:12 AM
Many turbos are water/coolant cooled now. Don't know about MB turbos. Most owners likely have no idea about turbos or even if their vehicles have one, so any extra care concerning a turbo engine is never even considered.
Checked on Google, no mention of "water turbo cooling" in regards to the M260 (my engine in the A250). When I shut off my engine after a long drive there are no sound of a water-pump device pumping cooling around the turbo. Therefore I conclude that the turbo in the A250 is classically air-cooled and relies on the appropriate care - driving it cold before shutting off the motor.
Der neue Benzinmotor M 260: Premiere für CONICSHAPEDer Vierzylinder M 260 des A 250 ist eine grundlegende Weiterentwicklung des bisherigen M 270 mit einer Leistungssteigerung von über 6 Prozent gegenüber seinem Vorgänger. In seinem Motorblock aus Aluminium-Druckguss mit Grauguss-Laufbuchsen versteckt sich eine Weltpremiere in der Großserie: CONICSHAPE, intern auch anschaulich ,, Trompetenhonung" genannt. Um die Reibung der Kolben weiter zu minimieren und den Verbrauch zu senken, wird dabei die Zylinderbohrung im unteren Teil der Laufbuchsen aufgeweitet. Die dadurch entstandene konische Form ähnelt dem Schalltrichter einer Trompete. Ein neuartiges Leichtlauföl sowie optimierte Kolbenringe vermindern ebenso die Reibungsverluste. Um der erhöhten spezifischen Leistung Rechnung zu tragen, sind die Kolben selbst mit Kühlkanälen ausgestattet. Dies gewährleistet zusätzlich eine günstigere Verbrennung. Im unteren Teil des Kurbelgehäuses sind die Ausgleichswellen für einen ruhigen Motorlauf angeordnet.
(https://www.mercedes-fans.de/thumbs/lib/40/20/08/o_wide/82040.jpg)
Neu im Vierventil-Zylinderkopf aus Aluminium ist beim Zweiliter-Motor die CAMTRONIC, eine variable Ventilsteuerung, die eine zweistufige Verstellung des Ventilhubs auf der Einlassseite des Ventiltriebs ermöglicht. Mit der variablen Ventilhubverstellung lässt sich im Teillastbereich mit einem kleineren Ventilhub weniger Luft in den Brennraum leiten, wodurch geringere Ladungswechselverluste entstehen. In höheren Lastbereichen wird auf den großen Ventilhub umgeschaltet, um die volle Leistungsentfaltung des Aggregats zu erreichen.
Um eine optimale Verbrennung trotz kleineren Ventilhubs sicherzustellen, wird der Kraftstoff mehrfach eingespritzt. Dadurch wird die verringerte Turbulenz des Kraftstoff/Luft-Gemisches im Brennraum im Bereich der Zündkerze kompensiert. Der Vierzylinder verfügt über eine Direkteinspritzung mit Piezo-Einspritzventilen der neuesten Generation. Die Lage der Injektoren wurde optimiert, um eine geringe Wandbenetzung und damit geringere Rohemissionen zu erreichen, insbesondere Partikelemissionen. Ein Partikelfilter ist serienmäßig. Durch die optimierte Einspritzung mit Teilhub läuft der Motor in weiten Kennfeldbereichen jetzt noch leiser. Mit der Weiterentwicklung des bewährten BlueDIRECT Brennverfahrens in Verbindung mit dem serienmäßigen Ottopartikelfilter wird ein niedriges Abgasemissionsniveau sichergestellt.
Der einflutige Turbolader verfügt jetzt über ein elektronisch gesteuertes Wastegateventil. Das bisher unterdruckbetätigte Stellorgan wird nun durch einen elektrischen Präzisionssteller ersetzt, über dessen Lagerückmeldung und die höhere Stellgeschwindigkeit die Ladedruckregelung sowie die Diagnose deutlich verbessert wird. Damit lässt sich die Aufladung noch genauer steuern. Die Versorgung des Ölkreislaufs mit Motoröl erfolgt bedarfsgerecht. Die Sensorik überwacht den Öldruck, so kann das Fördervolumen angepasst werden. Der Kühlkreislauf besitzt einen elektronisch gesteuerten Thermostaten, mit dem die Temperatur des Motors belastungsgerecht optimal eingestellt werden kann. Um den Motors komfortabler zu machen, wird neben den Ausgleichswellen ein neuer Fliehkraftpendeldämpfer als Komponente im Triebstrang eingeführt. Damit wird das NVH-Verhalten des Motors verbessert und zudem das komfortable Fahren bei niedrigeren Drehzahlen ermöglicht. Dem gleichen Zweck dient die Abgasanlage mit Klappensteuerung. Der Motor ist für Frontantrieb und Allradantrieb 4MATIC ausgelegt und generell mit dem 7G-DCT-Doppelkupplungsgetriebe verbunden. Die Fertigung des M 260 erfolgt im Werk Kölleda.
Link: https://www.mercedes-fans.de/magazin/sternstunde/mercedes-benz-neue-a-klasse-w177-unter-der-haube-der-neuen-a-klasse-neue-motoren-neue-getriebe.12789
Water cooling is basically standard on any modern turbocharger. Irregardless, it should be taken care of.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on June 08, 2019, 09:14:05 AM
Water cooling is basically standard on any modern turbocharger. Irregardless, it should be taken care of.
Do they all generally have an electric pump that operates after shutdown on a timed basis to cool off the turbo? I've read that some do.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 08, 2019, 09:18:46 AM
Do they all generally have an electric pump that operates after shutdown on a timed basis to cool off the turbo? I've read that some do.
All of them should, but most don't AFAIK.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on June 08, 2019, 09:39:00 AM
All of them should, but most don't AFAIK.
Your little Fiesta does, does it not?
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 08, 2019, 09:46:20 AM
Your little Fiesta does, does it not?
I think it does because the radiator fan will run for a couple of minutes after shutting the engine down. If I let it idle for a minute first, it the fan doesn't run nearly as long.
Yeah I recall the A4 fan running after shutdown on hot days. Or maybe I'm wrong.
Checked on a German forum if the predecessor, the W176 A-Class, had water-cooled turbos. Nope, air- and oil-cooled. I am 99.9% the W177 (mine) has a similar setup, definitely air- and oil-cooled.
Link: https://www.motor-talk.de/forum/wird-der-turbolader-gehaeuse-im-w176-wassergekuehlt-t5834951.html
I wouldn't be concerned about the turbine itself, but more concerned about the engine. Head gaskets, PCV, anything that is affected by the high compression and 20+ lbs of boost.
You don't really hear that often of turbines cracking or failing....you hear of oil starvation, or connecting rod failures, or head gasket failures.
The only real issues I hear about with turbo engines is carbon build up on the valves (more from direct injection but the turbo's higher air temps don't help) and weird stuff like low speed preignition. Turbodiesels have been around forever and turbo gas engines have adpoted their same strategies for longevity. Only real downside is the turbo becomes another potential point of failure.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on June 08, 2019, 11:35:51 AM
Checked on a German forum if the predecessor, the W176 A-Class, had water-cooled turbos. Nope, air- and oil-cooled. I am 99.9% the W177 (mine) has a similar setup, definitely air- and oil-cooled.
Link: https://www.motor-talk.de/forum/wird-der-turbolader-gehaeuse-im-w176-wassergekuehlt-t5834951.html
No sprecken zie deutch. :lol:
But a purely air-oil cooled turbocharger is very rare these days.
The US market 2018 C300 also has the M260/264 engine, and parts number 11 and 12 in the catalog are coolant lines that attach to the turbocharger.
https://www.mbpartscenter.com/v-2018-mercedes-benz-c300--base--2-0l-l4-gas/engine--turbocharger-and-components
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on June 08, 2019, 01:04:02 PM
No sprecken zie deutch. :lol:
But a purely air-oil cooled turbocharger is very rare these days.
The US market 2018 C300 also has the M260/264 engine, and parts number 11 and 12 in the catalog are coolant lines that attach to the turbocharger.
https://www.mbpartscenter.com/v-2018-mercedes-benz-c300--base--2-0l-l4-gas/engine--turbocharger-and-components
But that motor possibly has a different turbo-cooling setup than the current W177 A-Class. :hmm:
Mr. AMG giving us some amazing insight. This engine is insane. :mask:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YBmG15FzuQ
Quote from: cawimmer430 on June 09, 2019, 04:01:20 PM
But that motor possibly has a different turbo-cooling setup than the current W177 A-Class. :hmm:
:hmm: :huh:
that's bonkers!
And the old (turbodiesel) Army trucks we drove 15years ago said after driving you were supposed to idle it for 5min before turning it off.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on June 10, 2019, 05:45:56 PM
that's bonkers!
And the old (turbodiesel) Army trucks we drove 15years ago said after driving you were supposed to idle it for 5min before turning it off.
That was also the general consensus for the turbo cars of the 1980s like the Lancia Delta Integrale etc. Before turning them off, have them idle for 2-3 minutes.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on June 11, 2019, 03:54:06 AM
That was also the general consensus for the turbo cars of the 1980s like the Lancia Delta Integrale etc. Before turning them off, have them idle for 2-3 minutes.
Yes, before they thought of running water/coolant lines/channels through them to protect the bearings.