Hey guys, I'm planning on buying a new car in the next few months (hopefully January or February, March at the latest), so I'm looking to get some input and make sure I haven't missed anything.
Basically, this is what I'm looking for:
AWD preferred, but RWD is okay, FWD less so, but I'm open to it
Manual is a must
Four doors preferred, but two doors is okay if I can still stick someone back there for a short trip
Apple CarPlay (I never thought this would be a requirement, times have changed, but I've gotten so used to it) or easily upgradable to Apple CarPlay
A little get up and go, but it doesn't have to be crazy fast (eventually I'll be replacing my Z4 with something 911 shaped, most likely)
Sunroof greatly preferred
I'd like to keep it under $35,000
Right now, this is how I'd rank what I'm looking at:
Group 1 (most preferred):
F30 BMW 335i/340i or 335xi\340xi
B8.5 Audi S4
GR Subaru WRX STI (2013-2014 only)
These seem to fit the bill pretty well.
Group 2:
F32 BMW 435i/440i or 435xi\440xi
B8.5 Audi S5
Volkswagen Golf R Mk7
B9 Audi A4 2.0T
These seem to fit the bill, except for maybe one missing preference.
Group 3:
Mini Cooper S (recent, I don't know the generation codes, but FWD and reliability is a big question mark)
Mitsubishi Evo X (getting to be really old now, kind of boy racer, but I do really like the design)
Volkswagen Golf GTI (would be able to afford a much newer one, but it's FWD)
BMW M235i (bit small, perhaps redundant while I still have the Z4)
Honda Civic Type R (super boy racer looks, getting a little old for that)
Ford Focus RS (same as above)
Pragmatically, the Golf R and A4 2.0T are probably the best choices. But I've never been accused of being overly practical.
So, anyway, any thoughts? Am I missing anything? What would you do in the same situation? Any of these cars scream buy or don't buy particularly loudly?
The Golf R sounds like a winner, if it's still available.
Group 1 and 2 seem kind of lame. Surely you're not that old yet.
My choice would be the Focus RS. It sounds wild, but the last year was 2018, I think.
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 24, 2023, 10:49:23 AMThe Golf R sounds like a winner, if it's still available.
Group 1 and 2 seem kind of lame. Surely you're not that old yet.
My choice would be the Focus RS. It sounds wild, but the last year was 2018, I think.
I'm getting a little old to keep describing myself as "mid 30s". 40 isn't that far away. Some of those cars in Group 3 would have been slightly embarrassing 10 years ago, now...might be too much. :lol:
I think a 3 (4?) or A4 is your best bet.
The Evo X is a boring Evo IX, with none of the charm, worse feel and barely any refinement improvements to speak of.
Quote from: Submariner2 on December 24, 2023, 09:08:20 PMI think a 3 (4?) or A4 is your best bet.
The Evo X is a boring Evo IX, with none of the charm, worse feel and barely any refinement improvements to speak of.
Yeah, to be honest, the Evo was never really in serious contention, I just really like the way the Evo X looked. Especially in white.
Tacoma TRD crew cab.
I like the Mazda 3 hatchback styling a lot. Not in the same league luxury as the BMW/Audi but maybe worth checking out.
It hasn't snowed in like 3 years... Get a Mustang
Quote from: veeman on December 25, 2023, 05:05:05 PMI like the Mazda 3 hatchback styling a lot. Not in the same league luxury as the BMW/Audi but maybe worth checking out.
The Mazda3 is nice looking, but you can't get the big engine in manual, which makes it a much less appealing package than a comparable GTI.
Quote from: r0tor on December 25, 2023, 06:11:03 PMIt hasn't snowed in like 3 years... Get a Mustang
I'm not necessarily against it, but I'm not sure it makes sense in my situation. But it kind of leaves me in a position where in another year I'm looking at 997s and then I have to sell the Mustang and then do this search all over again, but a year further removed from the last generation of manuals in this kind of car.
PM me, I'm thinking of selling my 340xi (6MT, hits all the points on your list except CarPlay, which is an easy upgrade away)
Quote from: CALL_911 on December 26, 2023, 08:18:02 AMPM me, I'm thinking of selling my 340xi (6MT, hits all the points on your list except CarPlay, which is an easy upgrade away)
PM sent!
I've sampled many on the list, plus competitors not mentioned. My recommendation is the Audi B9 (2017-2020) S4/S5. It is light years beyond anything on the list in the sum total of features/functions, performance and reliability/durability, plus, the tuning community is ginormous, and for like $1,500 (APR stage 1 ECU and TCU tune) you'd have reliable, smog legal, near M3 performance.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 26, 2023, 11:37:53 AMI've sampled many on the list, plus competitors not mentioned. My recommendation is the Audi B9 (2017-2020) S4/S5. It is light years beyond anything on the list in the sum total of features/functions, performance and reliability/durability, plus, the tuning community is ginormous, and for like $1,500 (APR stage 1 ECU and TCU tune) you'd have reliable, smog legal, near M3 performance.
No manual on the B9, which is a total disqualifier for me.
Quote from: Raza on December 24, 2023, 09:19:58 AMGroup 3:
Mini Cooper S (recent, I don't know the generation codes, but FWD and reliability is a big question mark)
My MINI mechanic says the all-BMW engined F55/56 MINIs (2014-on) are rock-solid in terms of reliability. He describes them as "Toyotas". Even the dreaded and usually suspect Consumer Reports agrees...
https://www.reddit.com/r/MINI/comments/14lc83n/mini_comes_in_3rd_place_in_consumer_reports_best/
After seeing a number of videos like this one, I'm not sure if I'd buy a used Audi with a 2.0T.
He's not an Audi hater though.
Quote from: Laconian on December 27, 2023, 11:52:06 AMAfter seeing a number of videos like this one, I'm not sure if I'd buy a used Audi with a 2.0T.
He's not an Audi hater though.
Car Wizard would tell you to buy a Toyoter. :praise:
So I had a B8 S4 6MT (same engine/transmission as the B8.5 S5 IIRC) and I currently drive a Golf R (I think Mark VII, it's a 2016 MY).
If you don't mind the size and the coupe shape the Audi S5 is probably better. Its AWD is RWD biased and the supercharged V6 felt smoother/more linear than the turbocharged 4 in the Golf.
The Golf is smaller/lighter. My experience was with an S4 not an S5, but I'd be surprised is the handling is that much different.
I like the hatchback format better than sedan or coupe myself, so all things considered I prefer the Golf.
I had test driven an S3, a 2-series, and a 3-series before buying the Golf. I liked the A3 better than the 2 or 3 series, but got the Golf over the S3 of course because of the 6MT. IIRC though the BMW's were only the I4 turbo's at the time (228 and 328 I think), so one with the bigger engine might be more fun.
My Raza's own admission he is getting old - an S4 definitely fits him better than a Golf :lol:
Quote from: Madman on December 27, 2023, 10:25:17 AMMy MINI mechanic says the all-BMW engined F55/56 MINIs (2014-on) are rock-solid in terms of reliability. He describes them as "Toyotas". Even the dreaded and usually suspect Consumer Reports agrees...
https://www.reddit.com/r/MINI/comments/14lc83n/mini_comes_in_3rd_place_in_consumer_reports_best/
Interesting. And good to know. I've always wanted a Mini. My grandfather (whom I never met, but I'm told I'm quite a bit like) had an original model way back when.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on December 28, 2023, 07:44:24 AMSo I had a B8 S4 6MT (same engine/transmission as the B8.5 S5 IIRC) and I currently drive a Golf R (I think Mark VII, it's a 2016 MY).
If you don't mind the size and the coupe shape the Audi S5 is probably better. Its AWD is RWD biased and the supercharged V6 felt smoother/more linear than the turbocharged 4 in the Golf.
The Golf is smaller/lighter. My experience was with an S4 not an S5, but I'd be surprised is the handling is that much different.
I like the hatchback format better than sedan or coupe myself, so all things considered I prefer the Golf.
I had test driven an S3, a 2-series, and a 3-series before buying the Golf. I liked the A3 better than the 2 or 3 series, but got the Golf over the S3 of course because of the 6MT. IIRC though the BMW's were only the I4 turbo's at the time (228 and 328 I think), so one with the bigger engine might be more fun.
I have to say, right now, the B8.5 S4 is my top choice. I used to drive my brother's B8 S4 a lot and found it a really good mix of sporty and comfortable. Something I could drive hard and have fun with, but also drive my mom to lunch in. I figure the S5 would be very similar, if not indistinguishable. Only ding on the S5 is practicality, but after living with a Z4 for 10 years, almost anything is a giant leap in practicality. I always said that if my brother's S4 were a manual, I'd have bought it off him. I've just got such a strong connection with that car, I can really see myself in one the way I sometimes have trouble seeing myself in other cars on my list.
The Golf R would be the most logical choice, all things considered. It would be newer, fewer miles, more practical, and I already know that I enjoy how Volkswagens drive, so I'm not worried about getting in the car and having it feel chintzy or cheap. But, and I know it's a small thing inflated to a big thing in my mind, the lack of sunroof really, really bothers me. I know some S5s don't have sunroofs that open, but at least there's light coming in. I'm still a convertible person, being in a car without a sunroof just feels so coffin-like to me, especially modern cars that have such high sills and small windows.
Any insights you feel like sharing, please do. I'm not in any rush to buy and I'm happy to wait for the right example.
I want to see Raza in a truck. Tacomas come RWD with turbo fours and 6-spd manuals. :devil:
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 29, 2023, 11:17:36 AMI want to see Raza in a truck. Tacomas come RWD with turbo fours and 6-spd manuals. :devil:
I've been in a truck.
Didn't care for it. :lol:
Impala SS
What kind of masochist buys white seats? Or even light gray? Do people not know they sit on those seats for years and light colors show so much more dirt than darker ones? What's pristine and new looks like a junkyard find at the end of year one.
AND WHAT KIND OF SADIST KEEPS LISTING AUTO CLUTCH TRANSMISSIONS AS MANUALS!?
I swear, this is a bigger problem with M3s and M4s than with any other model of car, dating back to the E46 because their crotchless marketing departments kept putting out ad copy calling them "automated manuals" in order to convince the geezers they were selling their cars to that automatics weren't for the old men they actually had become, but for the race drivers they all thought they were. "It's a manual transmission...that works on its own! It works by itself! It's some kind of self-matic manual! A self-o-matic manual! And it's cool, because you'll never stall when you're picking up your new girlfriend outside the plastic surgeon's office! Not like those suckers driving manual manual cars. Automatic manuals are still manuals because we know that if we tell you that it's just like Michael Schumacher's F1 car, you won't have an embarrassingly spec'd car, you'll have a race car for the road! And don't you worry! It's clunky as hell, expensive to fix, impossible to parallel park, and the shift knob looks like a bidet nozzle from the Starship Enterprise!"*
*some ranting just for comedic effect, you know I love you old guys, I'll be one of you soon, unless this car shopping kills me
I do love that Raza looks for a practical car and a Mini cooper is on the list :lol: They are really well packaged, but yeah, not the first thing that comes to mind.
Alright, here's an oddball suggestion that I think fits your needs better than anything you have listed.
2017-2020 Genesis G70 with a manual
They're really rare, but there are a couple for sale through CarMax that you could ship in.
- It's really good looking
- Much newer than the other things you're looking at
- Will likely be more reliable than the German cars listed
- Can be had $25k-$31k range with way fewer miles than the Germans
Quote from: MrH on January 12, 2024, 06:56:20 AMI do love that Raza looks for a practical car and a Mini cooper is on the list :lol: They are really well packaged, but yeah, not the first thing that comes to mind.
Alright, here's an oddball suggestion that I think fits your needs better than anything you have listed.
2017-2020 Genesis G70 with a manual
They're really rare, but there are a couple for sale through CarMax that you could ship in.
- It's really good looking
- Much newer than the other things you're looking at
- Will likely be more reliable than the German cars listed
- Can be had $25k-$31k range with way fewer miles than the Germans
It's an interesting choice. I remember looking at these a couple years ago and then forgetting they existed. I really need to do a little more research on them.
Though I do admit to be smitten with the idea of an F80 M3 at the moment.
If you are interested in a manual RWD M3, you should at least seek out an ATS-V to test drive. Price should be around your range. It was the best handling car in that class. LF4 engine is pretty stout. Tremec 6060 should last forever.
Who said Supra? Nobody? Supra.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 20, 2024, 06:23:57 AMWho said Supra? Nobody? Supra.
Like the new 2 seater BMW Supra?
It sounded like he wanted a back seat.
" Four doors preferred, but two doors is okay if I can still stick someone back there for a short trip"
Back there in the Supra means the trunk.
The MKIV and earlier Supras had back seats but probably too old for what he wants. MKIV turbo prices remain insane.
Quote from: 565 on January 20, 2024, 07:47:38 AMLike the new 2 seater BMW Supra?
It sounded like he wanted a back seat.
" Four doors preferred, but two doors is okay if I can still stick someone back there for a short trip"
Back there in the Supra means the trunk.
The MKIV and earlier Supras had back seats but probably too old for what he wants. MKIV turbo prices remain insane.
Oh? I didn't realize the new one was only a 2-seater.
Quote from: 565 on January 20, 2024, 05:25:13 AMIf you are interested in a manual RWD M3, you should at least seek out an ATS-V to test drive. Price should be around your range. It was the best handling car in that class. LF4 engine is pretty stout. Tremec 6060 should last forever.
I have looked at them and they're on the list, but it's not really a serious consideration. The biggest issue is availability. They sold very few with a stick, so very few are available for sale, and they tend to come in at a few thousand over budget. But I have the ATS-V on a few watched searches.
The back seats of the 1st gen 2 series is actually not bad at all. That would be my pick, can even go AWD
Quote from: r0tor on January 23, 2024, 06:36:22 PMThe back seats of the 1st gen 2 series is actually not bad at all. That would be my pick, can even go AWD
It's not a bad idea. I would really prefer a sedan, because how often are you going to want to shove someone back there, but the prices are good and the miles are quite lower than comparable 3 and 4 series models. As to be expected, sure, but still, worth noting. Though I do not believe you can get AWD with a manual, just for the record. Not that RWD is disqualifying, clearly.
Civic Si is not bad looking, and not as boy racerish as the R.
Quote from: Lebowski on March 24, 2024, 01:02:48 PMCivic Si is not bad looking, and not as boy racerish as the R.
It is still pretty ugly—the Civic is just an awkward looking customer no matter the trim. But the performance value is pretty good. It's got basically no options, so it's out the door right at 30K, which is kind of a bargain these days. It's worth considering, for sure.
Quote from: Raza on March 26, 2024, 02:31:10 PMIt is still pretty ugly—the Civic is just an awkward looking customer no matter the trim. But the performance value is pretty good. It's got basically no options, so it's out the door right at 30K, which is kind of a bargain these days. It's worth considering, for sure.
Interesting, I think this generation of civic is pretty good looking, inside and out. There were definitely some civic gens that were ugly, but not this one IMO.
I'm a big fan of the current Civic. Even the Type R looks more mature. I thought about an Si or Type R last summer but they were still being marked up and I wasn't playing that game.
Yeah, Honda's entire lineup is pretty good these days. Civic Si is the best deal out there for a manual daily. A Type R for $46k isn't absolutely heinous if you can get it for MSRP. I'd probably try like hell to stretch to $53k for the Integra Type S though.
I'd have a hard time justifying either over a GR Corolla if you're able to get it for MSRP too. There's $5k between a GR Corolla and Type R.
Quote from: Lebowski on March 26, 2024, 02:43:20 PMInteresting, I think this generation of civic is pretty good looking, inside and out. There were definitely some civic gens that were ugly, but not this one IMO.
There's something really ungainly going on in the back half of the car in the profile view. It just looks really off to me and I can't get over it.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on March 26, 2024, 04:02:41 PMI'm a big fan of the current Civic. Even the Type R looks more mature. I thought about an Si or Type R last summer but they were still being marked up and I wasn't playing that game.
Maybe, just maybe, if the Civic Type R had a spoiler delete for that silly grab handle across the back I could overlook some of the other more overwrought details, but it's just far too much for me. I'm a stone's throw away from 40, I don't want to drive around in a full size Hot Wheels car.
Quote from: MrH on March 27, 2024, 07:25:57 AMYeah, Honda's entire lineup is pretty good these days. Civic Si is the best deal out there for a manual daily. A Type R for $46k isn't absolutely heinous if you can get it for MSRP. I'd probably try like hell to stretch to $53k for the Integra Type S though.
I'd have a hard time justifying either over a GR Corolla if you're able to get it for MSRP too. There's $5k between a GR Corolla and Type R.
The Integra is definitely a step in the right direction, looks-wise. The back end isn't as disproportionate to the front, but it's still far too fussy for me. What happened to clean lines and clean designs? And what is with that silly grille design? It looks like a screenshot of Asteroids just before you lose the game. Awful.
(https://images.cars.com/cldstatic/wp-content/uploads/acura-integra-type-s-2024-03-exterior-front-angle.jpg)
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EIYRqxwXsAYlu8B?format=jpg&name=medium)
Now, if each of them were $10,000-$15,000 less, they'd look like a good value proposition compared to a Golf R or GTI, but $54K for an Integra Type S when the Golf R with AWD comes in fully loaded for under $50K with much better looks and arguably more practicality, it's hard to see why I'd look at the Civic Type R or Integra Type S.
Man, remember when the Acura TSX first came out? Now that was a good looking car at a good price with a 6 speed stick. I miss those days.
And, dear friend, if you think I'd consider a Toyota Corolla, you don't know me at all. Right or wrong of me, come on.
Also, yes, if you couldn't tell, I'm still searching.
I'm now getting bad ideas in my head, like "Hmm, I bet you can install a CarPlay head unit into an E46 M3..."
Truth be told, I'm hoping that the perfect, low mileage 2013-2016 S4 6MT will come up (preferably in white or blue, but I won't say no to silver, black, or gray) and make my decision for me.
You know you want an Ioniq 5 N
Quote from: CaminoRacer on March 30, 2024, 11:06:22 AMYou know you want an Ioniq 5 N
(https://y.yarn.co/84b0a854-11b6-4e21-a247-842bdb5c0d2e_text.gif)
Quote from: Raza on March 30, 2024, 10:23:46 AMMaybe, just maybe, if the Civic Type R had a spoiler delete for that silly grab handle across the back I could overlook some of the other more overwrought details, but it's just far too much for me. I'm a stone's throw away from 40, I don't want to drive around in a full size Hot Wheels car.
40 isn't that old, or another way of looking at it, it's not far off from a mid-life crisis. In either case, the Focus RS is the ideal car, 350 bhp, 6 speed manual and it doesn't look like it was designed by an 8 year old. A low mileage 2016-2018 can be had for mid $20s.
Take one for a test drive.
I think the Civic is better looking than the Integra, personally. Integra has too much going on in the front.
Agree the TSX was a great looking car, Acuras haven't looked good in a long time.
I didn't even know Acura was still here. Haven't seen an Acura in forever up here. Hondas galore, but FWD Acuras don't exist here.
My 340xi is still ripe for the picking....
Quote from: CALL_911 on March 31, 2024, 06:21:46 PMMy 340xi is still ripe for the picking....
It's tempting, but that's also F30 M3 money...and it's hard to not want an M3. I'm sure some Conti DWSs (or equivalent) would make it fine for the weak ass winters we have up here now.
Quote from: giant_mtb on March 30, 2024, 04:53:17 PMI didn't even know Acura was still here. Haven't seen an Acura in forever up here. Hondas galore, but FWD Acuras don't exist here.
Yeah, Acura's brand management has been pretty piss poor. Same w/ Infiniti.
I think Acura's crossovers are really competitive :huh:.
We bought the RDX because it was significantly nicer than top trim mainstreamers, and just slightly used put it around the same price too. It's closer to an X3 in terms of experience, but much closer to mainstreamers in price. I think the MDX fits the same mold too.
I think they do the near lux about as well as you can.
SH-AWD + 2.0t from Accord + 10-speed auto is a great combination.
Quote from: MrH on April 02, 2024, 08:27:21 AMI think Acura's crossovers are really competitive :huh:.
We bought the RDX because it was significantly nicer than top trim mainstreamers, and just slightly used put it around the same price too. It's closer to an X3 in terms of experience, but much closer to mainstreamers in price. I think the MDX fits the same mold too.
I think they do the near lux about as well as you can.
SH-AWD + 2.0t from Accord + 10-speed auto is a great combination.
The RDX/MDX are good cars, I said their branding sucks not their quality. Even the RDX/MDX though, the styling could be a lot better. Integra is a good car but styling is ugly IMO, while the Civic it's based on is a pretty good looking car.