Why are so many shops completely incapable of inflating tires up to the proper pressure? What is so difficult about this?
I had a tire put on at a GY store a couple months ago, left with 4 tires all with different PSI, and the spare (which was on the car and way too low on pressure, 15 PSI, when I dropped it off) was put in the bed without being properly inflated.
Last week, I took my truck in to a Ford dealership to have them mount/balance my 2 new Toyo Proxes and put them on. I checked the pressure on the newly installed tires when I got home - 45 whopping PSI!! And that was cold (well, almost cold). My door jam says something like 32 PSI. What were these guys thinking?
This isn't really a problem for guys like me and probably most other guys @ Carspin, as I check my pressure often and I just assume I'll have to adjust it whenever I leave a shop that has touched my tires. But a lot of people on the road, including my mom and sister for example, don't go out of their way to check their own pressure and I'm sure they just assume that if they just left a dealership, the pressure is at or at least near the correct level. I don't understand what is so difficult about checking the door jam and inflating tires to the correct pressure, especially for people who are supposedly professionals. Makes me wonder about what else they potentially screwed up.
This is a huge pet peeve of mine, I can't stand it. The shop that does our cruiser maintenance ignores the factory recommended pressure and puts in the max inflation (35psi) on the tires sidewall (44psi). :rolleyes:
Really though, it is that difficult to spy the door sticker before you fill the tires. <_<
QuoteThis is a huge pet peeve of mine, I can't stand it. The shop that does our cruiser maintenance ignores the factory recommended pressure and puts in the max inflation (35psi) on the tires sidewall (44psi). :rolleyes:
Really though, it is that difficult to spy the door sticker before you fill the tires. <_<
It shouldn't be! I think most peple think you are supposed to fill it to the pressure on the tire (the max pressure) rather than the recommended pressure in the door jam. It's one thing for laypeople to think this, but there is no excuse for a mechanic or tech working at a dealership or private shop to make this mistake.
Again, kind of makes me wonder what other mistakes they are making. If they can't figure out how to put air in the tires, how can they be competent to perform complicated repairs?
I hate mechanics, I only go for specialized things (alignment, tires, etc.).
They did the same thing to my dad's Yokohamas. It wasn't as bad, they only overiflated them to 38 psi vs. 35psi.
QuoteI hate mechanics, I only go for specialized things (alignment, tires, etc.).
They did the same thing to my dad's Yokohamas. It wasn't as bad, they only overiflated them to 38 psi vs. 35psi.
Some gauges do very on what they read but it should be more than 1 psi or 2 psi off at the most
I wish i had the tools/knowledge to do more of my own work, lucky i have a good mechanic that i would/and do trust with any of my familys cars...
It probably has something to do with the low pay new guy flunky getting all the oil change and tire work at the dealership. Still, they should train them to do better, or at least give the customer 'low paid idiot' special deal on such service.
Normally when I get my tires rotated or swap out winter/summer, get new tires, etc, I tell the people there exactly what pressures I want. At NTB at least, they do it, not that I like NTB, because the are douches who don't know what they are doing, but sometimes, it's what's available.
You know if anybody knows about proper tire inflation it is the people at CarTalk. They have a post about this just recently answering somebody's question.
You know you've been had when the tire technician tells you this:
I suggest you change the air in you tires every season because the air in your tires can wear out. You might even need to change the air filter on you tires.
Time to go to a another tire place.
QuoteYou know you've been had when the tire technician tells you this:
I suggest you change the air in you tires every season because the air in your tires can wear out. You might even need to change the air filter on you tires.
Time to go to a another tire place.
:blink: :blink: :blink:
I had a tire overfilled by 12 psi last time I went in to have the flat fixed. I knew they rotated the tires as well (I asked them to) because the overfilled tire was in a different place than the flat had been. I figure that it's not at all a big deal if you can check the pressures soon after, which is a damn good idea. I check at every fill-up. And besides, it's not like I paid for anything. (Les Schwaab is awesome. I bought some tires a long time ago from a dealer in another city, and I had an alignment done in the same city, and I haven't paid for a flat repair or tire rotation since-- I guess they just like me ;) ).
QuoteThis is a huge pet peeve of mine, I can't stand it. The shop that does our cruiser maintenance ignores the factory recommended pressure and puts in the max inflation (35psi) on the tires sidewall (44psi). :rolleyes:
Really though, it is that difficult to spy the door sticker before you fill the tires. <_<
The Honda dealer I go to does the same damn thing.
I don't even bother anymore, I just tell them not to touch them.
What pisses me off even more is when the technician uses the air wrench to tighten the lug nuts. They torque them to like 500 ft-lbs!!
One time, I was almost unable to undo my lug nuts with a lugwrench and 5 foot breaker bar. I was jumping on the bar, and it was actually bending it. That pissed me off.
My normal mechanic uses an actual torque wrench to tighten the lugs, which is one reason why I repeatedly bring my car to him.
QuoteWhat pisses me off even more is when the technician uses the air wrench to tighten the lug nuts. They torque them to like 500 ft-lbs!!
One time, I was almost unable to undo my lug nuts with a lugwrench and 5 foot breaker bar. I was jumping on the bar, and it was actually bending it. That pissed me off.
My normal mechanic uses an actual torque wrench to tighten the lugs, which is one reason why I repeatedly bring my car to him.
They ruined one of my studs before.
QuoteQuoteWhat pisses me off even more is when the technician uses the air wrench to tighten the lug nuts. They torque them to like 500 ft-lbs!!
One time, I was almost unable to undo my lug nuts with a lugwrench and 5 foot breaker bar. I was jumping on the bar, and it was actually bending it. That pissed me off.
My normal mechanic uses an actual torque wrench to tighten the lugs, which is one reason why I repeatedly bring my car to him.
They ruined one of my studs before.
Same here. Idiots. :hammerhead:
Do your own work. :nod:
QuoteDo your own work. :nod:
Most of us are not able to mount and balance our own tires.
I was talking in refference to getting studs broken...
I walk in with the wheel already off the car, show them the hole, they take 5 minutes and plug it, I hand them $10, I walk outside and put it on my car.
QuoteI was talking in refference to getting studs broken...
I walk in with the wheel already off the car, show them the hole, they take 5 minutes and plug it, I hand them $10, I walk outside and put it on my car.
where as if you let them do the whole thing they take at least 30mins and overtorque your lugs
QuoteWhat pisses me off even more is when the technician uses the air wrench to tighten the lug nuts. They torque them to like 500 ft-lbs!!
One time, I was almost unable to undo my lug nuts with a lugwrench and 5 foot breaker bar. I was jumping on the bar, and it was actually bending it. That pissed me off.
My normal mechanic uses an actual torque wrench to tighten the lugs, which is one reason why I repeatedly bring my car to him.
I hear you there too.
I have explicity told them that an impact gun is not to go near my wheels. They tend to use the torque bars which are supposed to limit to 90lb/ft or so, but that doesn't stop a spinning impact socket from marring the shit out of my wheels when they remove them and put them back on. All it takes is one little slip and bye bye finish.
QuoteDo your own work. :nod:
The sad part is that where possible thats exactly what I'm doing now.
I can't seem to count on anyone else to do a decent job and not fuck up something.
The freaking Honda DEALER has overfilled my Accord with oil TWICE in the last year. The first time I chewed out the service manager, the second time I chewed her out again and then went straight to the owner of the dealership.
I don't need that crap after spending almost $40CAD for a flipping oil change.
Why go to the Honda dealer? Wouldn't a Jiffy Lube type place be cheaper?
Maybe the Jiffy Lubes around you are better, but here taking your car to one is just asking for it...
QuoteMaybe the Jiffy Lubes around you are better, but here taking your car to one is just asking for it...
I agree, you never know what kind of quality you're going to get at a place like that. IMO, stick to either a dealer or an independent shop where you know/trust the guys who will be working on your car.
One of the advantages of going to a dealership is, in the event they do something stupid and screw something up, you're going to have much better luck getting the dealership to own up to their mistake and fix the problem (or pay to have it fixed).
QuoteWhy go to the Honda dealer? Wouldn't a Jiffy Lube type place be cheaper?
I've got almost a 10yr relationship now with this dealer, although you wouldn't know it lately. I also know the owner who is a friend and client of my dads.
I don't trust those little places one bit. Heard way too many horror stories. My bad experiences at the dealer are mild nuisances in comparison.
When I went to Juffy Lube, I specified Mobil 1.
QuoteQuoteWhy go to the Honda dealer? Wouldn't a Jiffy Lube type place be cheaper?
I've got almost a 10yr relationship now with this dealer, although you wouldn't know it lately. I also know the owner who is a friend and client of my dads.
I don't trust those little places one bit. Heard way too many horror stories. My bad experiences at the dealer are mild nuisances in comparison.
I take my car to a small shop. We havent had any problems with them. My dad went to highschool with the owner. And if they mess up one of our cars they are losing a lot of buisness. My family sends all 3 of our cars there, my grandparents send both of thier cars thier, My unlce and his family send 4 cars thier, another one of my uncles sends 2 cars there, etc. Its sort of like our family's own repair shop.
QuoteWhy go to the Honda dealer? Wouldn't a Jiffy Lube type place be cheaper?
Last time I went to Jiffy Lube they charged me something like $40 for an oil chnage and tried to sell my a bunch of shit. The next time I needed an oil change I went the small shop next door and got the oil change done for $25 and they didnt try to sell me anything. The Jiffy lube would probably still be cheaper than a dealer though.
Change the oil yourself foo's!
Werd.
I got another 1500kms before my next change. I've put 20,000kms on my car since I've owned it.
QuoteChange the oil yourself foo's!
I dont go outside to change my oil when its 25 degrees out. :hammerhead: I do it myself except when its cold out winter.
QuoteQuoteChange the oil yourself foo's!
I dont go outside to change my oil when its 25 degrees out. :hammerhead: I do it myself except when its cold out winter.
Well you gotta do what you gotta do. Ever tried a space heater inside of a garage?
He said "outside"...he probably doesn't have use of a garage.
QuoteHe said "outside"...he probably doesn't have use of a garage.
That's why I said "you gotta do what you gotta do." If he doesn't have access to a garage I can understand him bringing it to a shop.
Oh man I just changed the oil on all our cars since I'm heading back to school. Chicago is suprisingly mild, it was actually like 40 degrees. Had to get the engines warmed up before I could drain any out, with any rate of speed. But I got a good deal on some Mobil 1 so I was pleased. A 5qt. bottle was only 20 bucks.
When I went to NTB to have my winter wheels/tires mounted, I had them do a 4 wheel balance and specifically asked them to put 38 psi front/34 psi rear. The service manager even wrote it in big letters on the work order. Big surprise - I rolled in with 30 psi, rolled out with 30 psi. Too bad I didn't check til later. Sucks plunking money into an air pump and crawling around a gas station parking lot to fill your tires the day after you just left NTB! :banghead: They usually do a decent job there, but not this time...
I've had that problem too. I took the car to the shop for a tune-up and some extras, and asked that they go ahead and check tire pressure for me, since it'd been a while since I checked. When I drove home, I noticed it didn't feel right, so I checked and the tires (which should have been at 32) were at 44. Not what I wanted, especially since I'd just told the guy I was taking a long road trip, and thus the extra maintenence. Max pressure... thanks guys.
Perhaps they believe giving us rock-hard tires will sport us the best fuel mileage. :banghead:
Well I normally fill my tires 2 points above spec, for the very reason of fuel milage in day to day driving. The pressures on most cars are a guideline and they keep them relatively low to give better ride quality. I like it just a bit higher than suggested. But never 44 psi.
Heh, my tires are usually underinflated.
I disconnected my power steering, the difference it makes when the front tires have the proper pressure is amazing.
I got my new tire in with about 28psi, and I needed 35, and told them 35. I felt the difference on the way home, but just sucked up and filled it.
I'm overruled at our shop about impact guns used for tightening lugnuts and that sorry-ass tire pressure gauge/air chuck everyone uses for convenience. I've never seen one that is accurate. I keep a digital tire pressure gauge in my desk at work and I've shown those guys that the one they are using is way off, but they don't care and the manager backs them up.
The last shop I was at torque sticks were required and to my surprise, they were on the money. At this shop, I bring my personal torque wrench in insist they use it...or I won't flag the time. I also correct my tire pressures at the house and tell them to leave them alone.
One year to go......IF, I can pay off the two cars, my wife's college loan, and my M/card, I'm turning my resignation in December 31st, 2006. Then, I concentrate on the photography business.
Somehow I get the impression that you don't care too much for your job ;)
QuoteSomehow I get the impression that you don't care too much for your job ;)
At one time it was really interesting and I felt that in some small way I was contributing to the public by helping them keep an eye on their vehicle's maintenance. I used to consider myself the laison between the customer and the technician. I would check behind the tech and tell him if I thought that something could wait or was unnecessary. Unfortunately, and it is probably due to asshole service advisors at other dealers, customers just assume now that I'm ripping them off. Basically, it has become a thankless job and I look across the shop floor everyday and think "surely I'm on this earth to do more than keep some jerk's car running" who is only going to go to work and complain that I've robbed him.
Sometimes I just want to tell them, "Well, let me tell ya something....if that is the way you feel...goddammit, take an automotive course at the local community college and do it yourself. Until you do that, you're going to have to live with $70/hour and no, I didn't set the price and I can't give you a friggin' discount because you believe it is too much. Try that at the doctor's office...visit him for fifteen minutes and you get charged 250.00. See if he'll give you a "discount"?"
QuoteQuoteSomehow I get the impression that you don't care too much for your job ;)
At one time it was really interesting and I felt that in some small way I was contributing to the public by helping them keep an eye on their vehicle's maintenance. I used to consider myself the laison between the customer and the technician. I would check behind the tech and tell him if I thought that something could wait or was unnecessary. Unfortunately, and it is probably due to asshole service advisors at other dealers, customers just assume now that I'm ripping them off. Basically, it has become a thankless job and I look across the shop floor everyday and think "surely I'm on this earth to do more than keep some jerk's car running" who is only going to go to work and complain that I've robbed him.
Sometimes I just want to tell them, "Well, let me tell ya something....if that is the way you feel...goddammit, take an automotive course at the local community college and do it yourself. Until you do that, you're going to have to live with $70/hour and no, I didn't set the price and I can't give you a friggin' discount because you believe it is too much. Try that at the doctor's office...visit him for fifteen minutes and you get charged 250.00. See if he'll give you a "discount"?"
Sounds very similar to a friend of mine.
Hes nearing the end of his mechanic apprenticeship. He was just telling me a bunch of stories the other day about customers. They'll come in get him to figure out whats wrong and then say "i have a friend/uncle/relative/neighbour/etc... whos a mechanic." blah blah, he said he just drops the hood and says ok, better have them fix it.
90% of the time they are back because so and so couldn't fix it and has now f'd it up worse. In one case, a guys friend or whatever had unbolted the exhaust manifold because he couldn't get something else off. Well the customer drove the car back to the dealer like that, and the heat from the exhaust ports had melted the fan shroud and various other bits on the way in lol...
what a moron^
QuoteQuoteQuoteSomehow I get the impression that you don't care too much for your job ;)
At one time it was really interesting and I felt that in some small way I was contributing to the public by helping them keep an eye on their vehicle's maintenance. I used to consider myself the laison between the customer and the technician. I would check behind the tech and tell him if I thought that something could wait or was unnecessary. Unfortunately, and it is probably due to asshole service advisors at other dealers, customers just assume now that I'm ripping them off. Basically, it has become a thankless job and I look across the shop floor everyday and think "surely I'm on this earth to do more than keep some jerk's car running" who is only going to go to work and complain that I've robbed him.
Sometimes I just want to tell them, "Well, let me tell ya something....if that is the way you feel...goddammit, take an automotive course at the local community college and do it yourself. Until you do that, you're going to have to live with $70/hour and no, I didn't set the price and I can't give you a friggin' discount because you believe it is too much. Try that at the doctor's office...visit him for fifteen minutes and you get charged 250.00. See if he'll give you a "discount"?"
Sounds very similar to a friend of mine.
Hes nearing the end of his mechanic apprenticeship. He was just telling me a bunch of stories the other day about customers. They'll come in get him to figure out whats wrong and then say "i have a friend/uncle/relative/neighbour/etc... whos a mechanic." blah blah, he said he just drops the hood and says ok, better have them fix it.
90% of the time they are back because so and so couldn't fix it and has now f'd it up worse. In one case, a guys friend or whatever had unbolted the exhaust manifold because he couldn't get something else off. Well the customer drove the car back to the dealer like that, and the heat from the exhaust ports had melted the fan shroud and various other bits on the way in lol...
Yep, happens all the time. And there are at least three phone calls a day asking how to fix something or diagnose something over the phone (usually from another garage that someone believes is repairing their car better than the dealer could and they will be impressed later when they pick it up thinking, hell, who needs a dealership...this guy knows how to fix everything).
Friday, a guy called in and said he was doing a brake job on his truck and ran into a problem. Seems there are these two cups that are getting in the way of the new brake pads sliding into place. What are those and how do you work around them? I asked him straight out....you've never ever done a brake job have you and you have never even seen anyone do one have you? Of course the answer was "no".
I told him those were the caliper pistons and spent ten minutes explaining what he needed to do....but it wasn't until we hung up that I realized I forgot one important detail. Don't drive off until you've pumped those brakes back up.
I'll probably be sued.
Good luck with the photog business JWC! I hope it all works out with your timeline. Only advice I can give you is to build up more of a reserve than you think you'll need. If you really love the job, success will come, but more often than not you have to at least spend a little time in transition hell, when it costs you more dough than you planned. Of course, if your wife is working, that's your ace in the hole. B)
QuoteGood luck with the photog business JWC! I hope it all works out with your timeline. Only advice I can give you is to build up more of a reserve than you think you'll need. If you really love the job, success will come, but more often than not you have to at least spend a little time in transition hell, when it costs you more dough than you planned. Of course, if your wife is working, that's your ace in the hole. B)
I supported the family while my wife got her college degree (nursing). Now its payback time. :P ;)
(While I'm working though, I'm buying up all the equipment I can and setting aside cash in a savings account for emergencies.)
QuoteI'm overruled at our shop about impact guns used for tightening lugnuts and that sorry-ass tire pressure gauge/air chuck everyone uses for convenience. I've never seen one that is accurate. I keep a digital tire pressure gauge in my desk at work and I've shown those guys that the one they are using is way off, but they don't care and the manager backs them up.
Amazing...
Hand thread, impact 'em down, tighten with a torque wrench... Takes all of, what, two minutes? Beats the hell out of having to re-install lugs after the overtightened ones snapped.
Yet another reason I prefer to do my own work when I can
I've been falling out of favor a lot lately with my management.
I've had several vehicles sold front end work that didn't need to be done. (Hell, they even tried to tell me the balljoints on the Explorer wer worn out...three years ago. Ignored the tech and haven't had a problem since.) But, the flat time is good vs. how long the repair takes and it is a battle I can't win.) An indepedent garage owner called me a couple of months ago asking me about a truck that I gave an estimate of 1000.00 for to replace the upper and lower ball joints and both outer tie rod ends. Basically, he asked me what the hell was going on at my dealership. He had the truck and could only see that it needed one lower ball joint. We're getting quite a reputation around town for every car and truck needing ball joints.
And...it isn't even consistent within the dealership. The service manager and one of the front end techs estimated lower ball joints and tie rod ends for a F250 recently. Since the tech was out sick, it went to the other front end tech. Who refused to replace anything because there was nothing wrong with the front end. The service manager finally convinced him to at least replace one tie rod end, so the dealership could save face.
11.5 months to go.
If you're on the way out, I'd take all the liberties I'd want.
However, the dealership at which you work seems fairly dodgy.
QuoteIf you're on the way out, I'd take all the liberties I'd want.
However, the dealership at which you work seems fairly dodgy.
In my opinion, it has gone downhill lately. When I was the only service advisor/asst. manager, I could over rule such things. Now it is out of my hands. I'm the only employee on salary, all others are commission. I think this sways these decisions a great deal. Three years ago, everyone was salary, but all those employees are long gone. I'm the last and since I was hired as a salaried worker, I remain such.
QuoteQuoteIf you're on the way out, I'd take all the liberties I'd want.
However, the dealership at which you work seems fairly dodgy.
In my opinion, it has gone downhill lately. When I was the only service advisor/asst. manager, I could over rule such things. Now it is out of my hands. I'm the only employee on salary, all others are commission. I think this sways these decisions a great deal. Three years ago, everyone was salary, but all those employees are long gone. I'm the last and since I was hired as a salaried worker, I remain such.
Yeah, well, it seems that when you're gone, they'll be out of good guys. Remind me to never get my car serviced there.
I had to put my foot down today and complain.
Guy comes in with a Taurus and a low coolant lamp on...not staying on, just intermittent. I wrote it up, but was gone to lunch when it was checked and the RO finalized. The guy came and I heard the cashier tell him $75.00. Curious, I punched up the RO on my computer. The repair line read: Pressure test cooling system, low on coolant, no leak found, added coolant and released.
This guy was going to pay it! I intervened at the cashier's desk and told the guy I wanted to check on something about why it had an air pocket (the car was in for a repair a month ago that may have led to an air pocket) and I would send him the bill later.
When the SM got back from lunch, I took him aside, away from the SA that closed the RO and asked if we were really going to charge that for a what amounts to a pressure test...three tenths of an hour...fortunately he agreed it was wrong and that the other SA has been told repeatedly that all diagnosis runs 75.00. I called the customer later and told him there was no charge. Fortunately, I happened to be close enough to hear the cashier or he would have paid it and asked no questions.
Watch out for inexperienced service advisors!
Wow. This is probably one of the reasons people don't trust mechanics...
JWC, dude I can tell you're burning out on the advisor gig. Good luck with the photography thing.
I would have charged that guy with the Taurus an hour, too. The tech deserves it, cause when Mr. Taurus comes back complaining the light is still coming on, he won't get paid zip to price out a new coolant bottle/sensor assembly. :devil: :praise:
I use torque sticks on most of the tire work I do, if someone wants a special deal with a torque wrench, I'll be happy to, but they will pay extra. Time is money, as you know.
I always inflate tires to the factory specs, always.
Just some BS from the tech's point of view.
QuoteJWC, dude I can tell you're burning out on the advisor gig. Good luck with the photography thing.
I would have charged that guy with the Taurus an hour, too. The tech deserves it, cause when Mr. Taurus comes back complaining the light is still coming on, he won't get paid zip to price out a new coolant bottle/sensor assembly. :devil: :praise:
I use torque sticks on most of the tire work I do, if someone wants a special deal with a torque wrench, I'll be happy to, but they will pay extra. Time is money, as you know.
I always inflate tires to the factory specs, always.
Just some BS from the tech's point of view.
Well, Mr. Worthington hasn't returned to complain, so evidently the system had an air pocket. If he did return, and he had a faulty coolant resevoir, then I would charge him for the pressure test and installation. The tech isn't always correct, he is human.
The new thing in the shop is drain plugs. Suddenly all cars coming in for an oil change needs a new drain plug. This is based on a visual inspection of the threads and seeing that the threads are discolored from being tightened. From what I can tell the big difference is the end of the plug has been soaked in oil where it has been sticking into the pan, the end next to the head of the bolt has been sealed against the oil pan threads and not exposed to oil.
Today the lube "tech" came up to the desk and said that a Sport Trac had the wrong drain plug, it was a 16mm instead of a 13mm. "Is there a problem with it?"
"Yes, but it is the wrong size and I think the oil pan threads are stripped".
"Did you check the pan threads?"
"You can't check for stripped threads unless you screw the correct plug back in"
"Wait, what the hell are you talking about? Are you saying that it took a 16mm wrench to remove the plug instead of a 13mm or are you saying the plug is physically larger."
"Yeah, the plug is too big".
"You've lost me somewhere. You changed the oil the last two visits".
"He must have had it changed somewhere else in between".
"Now, why would he go somewhere else if it has only been 2800 miles since we changed it?"
"I don't know".
"You're not really a mechanic are you? Go charge a drain plug to the shop and tell me if it fits in the hole".
I followed him over and sure enough, the drain plugs had the same thread size, but the bolt head was bigger on the original. Evidently, it was that way when the customer bought it used...from us. What is going through this boy's head, is a mystery.
He's been working the rear brakes of a church bus since 11am....yesterday. Today, I found out the other mechanics have a pool going betting when he will finish.
I would check those brakes if I were you, if it has any problems and is involved in an accident because of them they could go after the dealer and would surely win (the evil car dealer vs the church group ;)).
QuoteI would check those brakes if I were you, if it has any problems and is involved in an accident because of them they could go after the dealer and would surely win (the evil car dealer vs the church group ;)).
Everyone said the same today. The service manager personally drove the van after the work was completed.
BTW, in the pool, 10:45 was the winning time.
That was funny. I think they need to hire good technicians who are drug free and reasonably intelligent but being a mechanics is not everybody's cup of tea.
QuoteThat was funny. I think they need to hire good technicians who are drug free and reasonably intelligent but being a mechanics is not everybody's cup of tea.
Really a shame that people still think working on cars is a non-skilled job. It is a job for the very technically minded. The problem is when you are at a your wife's Christmas party and you tell people what you do, they dismiss your job and something anyone can do. Automotive repair is becoming very specialized. These people don't seem to realize that the tech they are talking to probably makes twice or three times what they make.
As a result, the best people for a tech position is working on computers for 50k/year when working on a car can be a 80-90k/ year job.
QuoteQuoteThat was funny. I think they need to hire good technicians who are drug free and reasonably intelligent but being a mechanics is not everybody's cup of tea.
Really a shame that people still think working on cars is a non-skilled job. It is a job for the very technically minded. The problem is when you are at a your wife's Christmas party and you tell people what you do, they dismiss your job and something anyone can do. Automotive repair is becoming very specialized. These people don't seem to realize that the tech they are talking to probably makes twice or three times what they make.
As a result, the best people for a tech position is working on computers for 50k/year when working on a car can be a 80-90k/ year job.
It is very specialized. I remember when I took my VW to a Jiffy Lube to get the oil changed (before you bemoan this, I lived in an apartment without a garage to change my own oil--and they had Mobil 1) they ran me down a checklist of things they couldn't do that they normally did because they didn't know how to do it on a Volkswagen, because, apparently, they've never had one before. I was the only imported car there at the time as well.
I get that too sometimes.
Gimme a break, imports have been popular for over 20 years now, you should carry parts for them...
I went to get a clutch hardline bent, apparently it needed "special" 6mm line (yeah OK, it's the same line used on pretty much every import for the past 15+ years on not only the clutch system, but the whole brake system) and "special" fittings.
I was quoted for $20 when I dropped it off, when I picked it up and paid they told me it should have been a $30 job, due to the "special" parts. :rolleyes:
QuoteIt is very specialized. I remember when I took my VW to a Jiffy Lube to get the oil changed (before you bemoan this, I lived in an apartment without a garage to change my own oil
So?
Change it on the street, like I do :praise:
QuoteAs a result, the best people for a tech position is working on computers for 50k/year when working on a car can be a 80-90k/ year job.
Word?
Hmmm, I should look into that.
All I need is ASE certification, right?
Took my dad's taurus to Jiffy Lube today. It's funny sitting in the waiting room with four or five other guys(all either Ford or Chevy owners). There's an awkward silence because everyone's embarrased at being there instead of changing the oil themselves.
Embarrassing was what happened to me back in the 1990's when I worked for a GM dealer.
One of the owners read some industry rag about how a certain quick lube chain's dollar per RO amount was somewhere like $90.00. Ours only averaged around 70-ish. So, the conclusion was we were not up selling as well as those quick lube places. The remedy was to send each service advisor "undercover" with a car and observe the selling techniques of the local quick lube places.
When it was my turn, I was given a 1994 Grand Am that had just been traded in. We (illegally) used a turn-in plate from another trade. This car hadn't seen the service department yet for its used car inspection, so no one had even looked under the hood.
The dealership gave me 25.00 and sent me down the street to "observe and learn". I got in line and was checked in, then sent to the waiting area while "my" car was serviced. In the customer lounge was probably eight other people. Eventually, my car got into the building and the service rep brought the air filter from the Grand Am into the lounge to show me that it needed to be replaced.
And, he wasn't exaggerating. It was probably the worse air filter I had ever seen. Not only was it black with crud, but it practically broke apart when he showed it to me...pieces of it fell on the floor. Problem was, I don't carry cash at work and they only gave me enough money for the oil change. I had to tell him no thanks. That guy looked at me like I was a lunatic. I nervously glanced around at the others, hoping no one was paying any attention to this exchange, but of course all the other customers were staring at me, apparently in shock.
Sir, the guy continues, I don't think I can really get this back in the car. I can sell you an air filter for only twelve dollars. I took a deep breath and said, just stick it back in there any way you can. Hell, leave it out, I don't care. (I just wanted to get out of there).
The customer rep and all eight people in that room were staring at me with expressions that plainly said, "what cheap bastard".
After I paid for the oil change I think I crawled out to the car.
Later that day, at the weekly service meeting , I had to do a presentation about my experience. I related the whole tale to the owners, the service manager, the lead techs, and my fellow service advisors, who had already heard it once, but still laughed.
After the presentation, the owner asked what I had learned. I said, I learned that the next time you guys send my out to do this, check the fucking car out first.
QuoteQuoteAs a result, the best people for a tech position is working on computers for 50k/year when working on a car can be a 80-90k/ year job.
Word?
Hmmm, I should look into that.
All I need is ASE certification, right?
Not that simple. The guys making between 25.00 and 30.00 have been doing this for about ten years average. My highest paid tech specializes in Ford diesel. The pay is based on flat rate times and it is your ability to beat the time that allows such yearly income. My diesel tech makes about 55 hrs in a 45 hour week. Actually, that is his personal limit. Anymore than that and Uncle Sam takes a large enough cut that he actually takes home less.
ASE certification is fine for independent shops, but to get that money you have to be in a dealership or a import shop. In the dealerships, you have to be certified by that manufacturer.
BTW, I took this phone call today:
You sell tires?
Yes, sir.
Could you get me a price on a set for my Explorer? I have BF Goodrich now. I'd like a price on a set of Goodrichs and Goodyears.
We also sell Michelin.
Well, you can price Michelin, but I probably won't buy them. They're made in France and I hate the French.
Funny stuff :lol: :lol:
A similar thing happend with the cabin air filter a while ago. He pulled it out filthy(50k of use) and I said "eh, just stick it back." I bought one at Napa for less than half the price. Infact, I didn't even know what a cabin air filter was, or that the taurus had one, untill this happened.
Oh, and it was a serious bitch to locate the damn thing.
QuoteActually, that is his personal limit. Anymore than that and Uncle Sam takes a large enough cut that he actually takes home less.
How is that possible?
Another story of tire pressure incompetence:
My mom took her car to the local gas station (w/ a service garage) to have her tire pressure checked (she's unable to do that herself, apparently) before a long highway trip yesterday. The tech said her tires were way too low, as they had only 40psi, it should be 50, that's what the sidewall says. My mom, who is the least mechanically inclined slash automotively knowledgable person on the face of the earth, mind you, said "that can't be right, are you sure", and the tech insisted that he was certain he was correct. My mom pointed out the sticker in the door jam (which said 32 or something like that, as we'd all expect) and said why not go by that. The guy asked "are these the tires that originally came with the car" and my mom said no as they weren't the original tires (but they were the same size as the originals and were on the OEM wheels), and he said "well then, you go by what's on the tire, and it says 50". My mom let the idiot fill it to 50, but fortunately she had enough sense to immediately drive to another garage to double check, where they reduced the pressure to 32ish and laughed at her story.
Unbelievable, this guy was around 30 and services cars for a living. How on earth can anyone be so clueless?
QuoteQuoteActually, that is his personal limit. Anymore than that and Uncle Sam takes a large enough cut that he actually takes home less.
How is that possible?
Moves to a higher tax bracket.
QuoteQuoteQuoteActually, that is his personal limit. Anymore than that and Uncle Sam takes a large enough cut that he actually takes home less.
How is that possible?
Moves to a higher tax bracket.
Unless there is something weird going on the way you guys pay hourly workers, tax brackets don't work that way.
Tax brackets are marginal. Let's say (for purpose of demonstration, this isn't exactly where the bracket changes) the tax bracket moves from 20% to 25% at $80k. If you get a raise from $79k to $85k, the 25%
only applies to the $5k you earn above that $80k mark.
For some reason, a LOT of people don't understand this, and interpret it the way you just described. Unless there is something unusual going on with a person's individual situation, it generally is not possible to get a raise and walk away with less after tax dollars than before you got the raise.
It sounds to me like the guy you cited in your example needs to talk to a CPA, he may be leaving money on a table by determining his work hours based on an apparently incorrect interpretation of the tax code.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteActually, that is his personal limit. Anymore than that and Uncle Sam takes a large enough cut that he actually takes home less.
How is that possible?
Moves to a higher tax bracket.
Unless there is something weird going on the way you guys pay hourly workers, tax brackets don't work that way.
Tax brackets are marginal. Let's say (for purpose of demonstration, this isn't exactly where the bracket changes) the tax bracket moves from 20% to 25% at $80k. If you get a raise from $79k to $85k, the 25% only applies to the $5k you earn above that $80k mark.
For some reason, a LOT of people don't understand this, and interpret it the way you just described. Unless there is something unusual going on with a person's individual situation, it generally is not possible to get a raise and walk away with less after tax dollars than before you got the raise.
It sounds to me like the guy you cited in your example needs to talk to a CPA, he may be leaving money on a table by determining his work hours based on an apparently incorrect interpretation of the tax code.
Beats me, I'm salary.
I know that when I worked hourly, if I made over a certain number of hours in a two week period, I actually took home less money than if I had worked about five less than that total. Really sucked.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteActually, that is his personal limit. Anymore than that and Uncle Sam takes a large enough cut that he actually takes home less.
How is that possible?
Moves to a higher tax bracket.
Unless there is something weird going on the way you guys pay hourly workers, tax brackets don't work that way.
Tax brackets are marginal. Let's say (for purpose of demonstration, this isn't exactly where the bracket changes) the tax bracket moves from 20% to 25% at $80k. If you get a raise from $79k to $85k, the 25% only applies to the $5k you earn above that $80k mark.
For some reason, a LOT of people don't understand this, and interpret it the way you just described. Unless there is something unusual going on with a person's individual situation, it generally is not possible to get a raise and walk away with less after tax dollars than before you got the raise.
It sounds to me like the guy you cited in your example needs to talk to a CPA, he may be leaving money on a table by determining his work hours based on an apparently incorrect interpretation of the tax code.
Beats me, I'm salary.
I know that when I worked hourly, if I made over a certain number of hours in a two week period, I actually took home less money than if I had worked about five less than that total. Really sucked.
I'm salary too, so I'm not too familiar with how hourly workers' taxes are computed ... must have something to do with how overtime is taxed or something like that.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteActually, that is his personal limit. Anymore than that and Uncle Sam takes a large enough cut that he actually takes home less.
How is that possible?
Moves to a higher tax bracket.
Unless there is something weird going on the way you guys pay hourly workers, tax brackets don't work that way.
Tax brackets are marginal. Let's say (for purpose of demonstration, this isn't exactly where the bracket changes) the tax bracket moves from 20% to 25% at $80k. If you get a raise from $79k to $85k, the 25% only applies to the $5k you earn above that $80k mark.
For some reason, a LOT of people don't understand this, and interpret it the way you just described. Unless there is something unusual going on with a person's individual situation, it generally is not possible to get a raise and walk away with less after tax dollars than before you got the raise.
It sounds to me like the guy you cited in your example needs to talk to a CPA, he may be leaving money on a table by determining his work hours based on an apparently incorrect interpretation of the tax code.
Beats me, I'm salary.
I know that when I worked hourly, if I made over a certain number of hours in a two week period, I actually took home less money than if I had worked about five less than that total. Really sucked.
I'm salary too, so I'm not too familiar with how hourly workers' taxes are computed ... must have something to do with how overtime is taxed or something like that.
I know my wife is hourly (nurse) and she loses a chunk of money if she works extra, and they are always asking for her to work extra. At times it hardly seems worth it.
QuoteWhat pisses me off even more is when the technician uses the air wrench to tighten the lug nuts. They torque them to like 500 ft-lbs!!
One time, I was almost unable to undo my lug nuts with a lugwrench and 5 foot breaker bar. I was jumping on the bar, and it was actually bending it. That pissed me off.
My normal mechanic uses an actual torque wrench to tighten the lugs, which is one reason why I repeatedly bring my car to him.
A bit off topic to this thread (which is arleady off topic, LOL) .... I'm planning on buying a torque wrench tomorrow or monday, any suggestions anyone? How much should I plan on spending?
QuoteQuoteWhat pisses me off even more is when the technician uses the air wrench to tighten the lug nuts. They torque them to like 500 ft-lbs!!
One time, I was almost unable to undo my lug nuts with a lugwrench and 5 foot breaker bar. I was jumping on the bar, and it was actually bending it. That pissed me off.
My normal mechanic uses an actual torque wrench to tighten the lugs, which is one reason why I repeatedly bring my car to him.
A bit off topic to this thread (which is arleady off topic, LOL) .... I'm planning on buying a torque wrench tomorrow or monday, any suggestions anyone? How much should I plan on spending?
I went to Sears and picked one up last year for less than $100. "Clicker" and goes to about 150ft/lbs. Very handy when I had to work on the Saab.
I think it is this one. (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00944595000)
QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat pisses me off even more is when the technician uses the air wrench to tighten the lug nuts. They torque them to like 500 ft-lbs!!
One time, I was almost unable to undo my lug nuts with a lugwrench and 5 foot breaker bar. I was jumping on the bar, and it was actually bending it. That pissed me off.
My normal mechanic uses an actual torque wrench to tighten the lugs, which is one reason why I repeatedly bring my car to him.
A bit off topic to this thread (which is arleady off topic, LOL) .... I'm planning on buying a torque wrench tomorrow or monday, any suggestions anyone? How much should I plan on spending?
I went to Sears and picked one up last year for less than $100. "Clicker" and goes to about 150ft/lbs. Very handy when I had to work on the Saab.
I think it is this one. (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00944595000)
Thanks ... I just went to Sears and bought that exact one. Seems to be pretty good quality, although I haven't used it yet.