Car Chat

[MX793]

You might be onto something there. There could be a patent with your name on it.

It already exists!

https://www.homedepot.com/p/KING-13-5-in-Multi-Purpose-Spud-Adjustable-Wrench-Prybar-Pipe-and-Hammer-0338-0/310846258

[RomanChariot]

It already exists!

https://www.homedepot.com/p/KING-13-5-in-Multi-Purpose-Spud-Adjustable-Wrench-Prybar-Pipe-and-Hammer-0338-0/310846258

It looks like it is time for me to shopping!

[Soup DeVille]

Not everyone can pry out a push rivet with a Philips screwdriver. It just proves you don't need the right tool or even need to know the name of the tool or the names of the parts of a car to be able to do car repair.

It did take me a minute to figure out what a "13 by 32" socket was.

[Eye of the Tiger]

It did take me a minute to figure out what a "13 by 32" socket was.

It's for rectangles.

[Soup DeVille]

It's for rectangles.

Oh crap. That's like a whole drawer missing from my box.

[CaminoRacer]

Today's random thought: A plug-in hybrid Outback or Tacoma would be a great DD + weekend adventure vehicle here in Utah

[AutobahnSHO]

Today's random thought: A plug-in hybrid Outback or Tacoma would be a great DD + weekend adventure vehicle here in Utah

I'd love for most cars to be plug-in hybrid (IF done right!)

[CaminoRacer]

I'd love for most cars to be plug-in hybrid (IF done right!)

They do need to be planned ahead. Plug-in Ford Fusions have no trunk space because they just plopped the batteries in the trunk.

[AutobahnSHO]

They do need to be planned ahead. Plug-in Ford Fusions have no trunk space because they just plopped the batteries in the trunk.

I think the Crosstrek was like that too.

[cawimmer430]

The start/stop engine control logic is designed to preserve engine life.

Starting wears the engine in a couple of ways.

First, the big one, wear and tear on the starter.  Start/stop engines have beefed up starters, so non-issue.

Second, true cold starts can wear out top end components.  A true cold start is when the engine has been sitting, off, for hours and has cooled to ambient temperature.  The oil in the top end has mostly run back down to the sump.  Restarting an engine that has been running for a few minutes, even if it's not totally up to operating temperature, is not a true cold start.  It takes seconds for oil to be pumped back up into the top end and it takes some time (many minutes) for it to flow back down again.  You aren't starving the top end of oil or causing wear.

Short trip driving, where the car regularly doesn't run long enough to get up to temperature before you shut it off and let it sit and cool down again (that last bit is an important distinction) can cause problem.  The minute or two you are sitting at a traffic light isn't long enough to be a problem.

Thank you as usual for your excellent and detailed responses.


So basically only the cold engine start (when say the engine has been sitting over night) results in the most wear and tear (as we've all learned).

But - since the oil at this point has not warmed up and is still not thin, won't this result in more wear and tear if the engine shuts off soon after and restarts again?


Interesting fact. The Start-Stop system on my car has not worked at all this winter, which is really cold. I don't even deactivate it since it does not work. Only once did the engine shut off at a light only to restart again after maybe 30 seconds: heater was on level 2 out of 7.

[MX793]

Thank you as usual for your excellent and detailed responses.


So basically only the cold engine start (when say the engine has been sitting over night) results in the most wear and tear (as we've all learned).

But - since the oil at this point has not warmed up and is still not thin, won't this result in more wear and tear if the engine shuts off soon after and restarts again?


Interesting fact. The Start-Stop system on my car has not worked at all this winter, which is really cold. I don't even deactivate it since it does not work. Only once did the engine shut off at a light only to restart again after maybe 30 seconds: heater was on level 2 out of 7.

The engine monitors oil temperature to determine if it's safe to use the start/stop.  It really doesn't take very long for the oil to be "warm enough" (it doesn't need to be at full operating temperature).  If it took more than seconds for oil to reach the point where it was lubricating the engine, your engine wouldn't last very long at all.

Also, temperature gages on most cars report coolant, not oil.  My Mustang reports both, and oil comes up to full temperature more than twice as fast as coolant.  My oil temperature gage starts moving within a minute of starting the car, while the coolant gage takes 3-4 minutes of idling and driving before it even moves.

The real danger of shutting an engine off before the oil is up to temperature is shutting the engine off and leaving it off for a meaningful time (an hour or more) and letting it cool back down before starting again.  This can cause oil sludging if done frequently.  Shutting the engine off for a minute or two at a traffic light isn't going to be harmful, because it takes more than a minute or two to cool down.

[cawimmer430]

The engine monitors oil temperature to determine if it's safe to use the start/stop.  It really doesn't take very long for the oil to be "warm enough" (it doesn't need to be at full operating temperature).  If it took more than seconds for oil to reach the point where it was lubricating the engine, your engine wouldn't last very long at all.

Also, temperature gages on most cars report coolant, not oil.  My Mustang reports both, and oil comes up to full temperature more than twice as fast as coolant.  My oil temperature gage starts moving within a minute of starting the car, while the coolant gage takes 3-4 minutes of idling and driving before it even moves.

The real danger of shutting an engine off before the oil is up to temperature is shutting the engine off and leaving it off for a meaningful time (an hour or more) and letting it cool back down before starting again.  This can cause oil sludging if done frequently.  Shutting the engine off for a minute or two at a traffic light isn't going to be harmful, because it takes more than a minute or two to cool down.

Awesome info. Thanks.

My car has a digital oil temperature gauge but my oil takes forever to warm up (unless the oil temperature updates are wrong/slow) in the winter. In the summer my oil is warm within 10 minutes, but in the winter it takes much longer.

[cawimmer430]

From mid-December last year when my A250 was getting its yearly service. I had to go outside for fresh air (can't breathe through these COVID masks...) and saw this scene. From the looks of it, this EQC perhaps ran out of battery power???. I mean why else would they put "skateboards" underneath its tires to move it around? 

[MX793]

From mid-December last year when my A250 was getting its yearly service. I had to go outside for fresh air (can't breathe through these COVID masks...) and saw this scene. From the looks of it, this EQC perhaps ran out of battery power???. I mean why else would they put "skateboards" underneath its tires to move it around? 

Or something in the drive train locked up.  Electric motors can become powerful dynamic brakes (which is how regen braking works) if you try to turn the motor output shaft by pushing the car.  Many EVs don't have a traditional transmission or gearbox with a neutral gear to decouple the wheels from the motor.  There is a way to electrically decouple the motor so that it doesn't act like a brake, but if that is broken, you need dollies.

[cawimmer430]

Or something in the drive train locked up.  Electric motors can become powerful dynamic brakes (which is how regen braking works) if you try to turn the motor output shaft by pushing the car.  Many EVs don't have a traditional transmission or gearbox with a neutral gear to decouple the wheels from the motor.  There is a way to electrically decouple the motor so that it doesn't act like a brake, but if that is broken, you need dollies.

Interesting.

Also, I've heard that when your EV battery runs completely flat, you just can't plug it into a power source and recharge it and hope that the car will work. Any truth to that?

[MX793]

Interesting.

Also, I've heard that when your EV battery runs completely flat, you just can't plug it into a power source and recharge it and hope that the car will work. Any truth to that?

It's possible to kill a battery by running it completely flat, but all EVs have failsafes to prevent the battery from going completely flat.  They shut themselves off and report 0 charge before the battery is actually physically dead.

Vehicles of the past 30 years are pretty "smart".  They have a lot of built in features to protect themselves.

[cawimmer430]

It's possible to kill a battery by running it completely flat, but all EVs have failsafes to prevent the battery from going completely flat.  They shut themselves off and report 0 charge before the battery is actually physically dead.

Vehicles of the past 30 years are pretty "smart".  They have a lot of built in features to protect themselves.

All except the UnSmart ForTwo apparently. 

A buddy of mine has a boss who has an electric Smart ForTwo that is primarily driven by his wife. That thing's battery can apparently run flat. He's told me stories where he had to help them "jump start" that thing. Again, from memory, but apparently the ForTwo Electric Drive also has a regular 12.8 volt battery which needs to be disconnected and then reconnected or something before one can charge the main 32 kW battery. I'm probably talking BS but he explained this to me last year and I wasn't really listening. 

[MX793]

All except the UnSmart ForTwo apparently. 

A buddy of mine has a boss who has an electric Smart ForTwo that is primarily driven by his wife. That thing's battery can apparently run flat. He's told me stories where he had to help them "jump start" that thing. Again, from memory, but apparently the ForTwo Electric Drive also has a regular 12.8 volt battery which needs to be disconnected and then reconnected or something before one can charge the main 32 kW battery. I'm probably talking BS but he explained this to me last year and I wasn't really listening. 

That's not symptomatic of a killed battery.  If you kill a battery by running it flat, a simple "reset" won't fix it.  The battery will not hold a charge and you have to replace the battery.

A battery reset sounds like a fail-safe to protect the car.

[cawimmer430]

That's not symptomatic of a killed battery.  If you kill a battery by running it flat, a simple "reset" won't fix it.  The battery will not hold a charge and you have to replace the battery.

A battery reset sounds like a fail-safe to protect the car.

Another peculiar thing about those electric Smart ForTwo's is that you apparently can only charge the battery when its charge is below 50%. If you plug it in at 50% charge it will apparently not charge. Any idea why Smart did this? Doesn't sound like a way to protect battery life to me.

Imagine knowing you have to go for a longer drive tomorrow so you want to charge your Smart ForTwo Electric Drive which is at like 68%. You need to drive that thing until the battery is below 50% before it will charge.

[MX793]

Another peculiar thing about those electric Smart ForTwo's is that you apparently can only charge the battery when its charge is below 50%. If you plug it in at 50% charge it will apparently not charge. Any idea why Smart did this? Doesn't sound like a way to protect battery life to me.

Imagine knowing you have to go for a longer drive tomorrow so you want to charge your Smart ForTwo Electric Drive which is at like 68%. You need to drive that thing until the battery is below 50% before it will charge.

Yes, that's to protect the main battery pack and maximize life.

[SJ_GTI]

From mid-December last year when my A250 was getting its yearly service. I had to go outside for fresh air (can't breathe through these COVID masks...) and saw this scene. From the looks of it, this EQC perhaps ran out of battery power???. I mean why else would they put "skateboards" underneath its tires to move it around? 

That reminds me of a (semi) legendary thread from TCL. A guy there had his car get a wheel lock put on by a parking attendant while parked in front of his condo. He was (reasonably) frustrated because it was his car and he lived there, he wasn't even a guest (although IIRC he was renting the condo, not an owner). He decided to put the car on dollies and roll it into his garage instead of paying the parking lot company to come take it off. Cops ended up getting called when the parking lot company realized the car and the lock were both gone.

[CaminoRacer]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Roadcam/comments/l4e0ex/usaut_truck_hits_subaru_in_a_canyon_both_cars_go/
https://streamable.com/3qvwu1

I saw that Big Cottonwood Canyon was closed in SLC yesterday afternoon. Now I know why! Diesel truck asshole lost control and took out a Subaru, sending both of them off the side of the road into the creek.

Loads of skiers were stuck up the canyon.

[FoMoJo]

Must've been icy, but it doesn't look like it.

[RomanChariot]

I don't know what the truck driver was doing that caused the truck to get loose but he definitely nailed the throttle after the truck was already sideways.

[Speed_Racer]

The stereotypical UT truck bro, what a douche

[Galaxy]

Audis built before 2017 have lost access to  Google Earth. 

This is for the  A3, A4, A5, A6, A7, Q2, Q5, Q7, TT and R8. Apparently Google has retired an API and therefore the cars can no longer access the 3D maps. 2D still works.  The aforementioned cars can be updated if they are built from 2018 onwards. The exception is the A1, and Q3 which can not be updated at all, owners who bought the 3 year update package will be compensated.  Everything from 2019 onwards is still ok. 

That is really inexcusable.

Here is the press release (scroll down): https://www.audi.com/en/experience-audi/models-and-technology/digital-services/audi-connect.html#:~:text=Due%20to%20a%20technical%20change,before%20the%20model%20year%202017.

[FoMoJo]

I don't know what the truck driver was doing that caused the truck to get loose but he definitely nailed the throttle after the truck was already sideways.

Likely shit himself too.

[MX793]

I don't know what the truck driver was doing that caused the truck to get loose but he definitely nailed the throttle after the truck was already sideways.

Probably had a little gap to the car ahead so they used the opportunity to roll a little coal.  Sort of like the loud Harley guys who will hang back a little in traffic to make some space so that they can open of the throttle and make some noise.

[MX793]

Audis built before 2017 have lost access to  Google Earth. 

This is for the  A3, A4, A5, A6, A7, Q2, Q5, Q7, TT and R8. Apparently Google has retired an API and therefore the cars can no longer access the 3D maps. 2D still works.  The aforementioned cars can be updated if they are built from 2018 onwards. The exception is the A1, and Q3 which can not be updated at all, owners who bought the 3 year update package will be compensated.  Everything from 2019 onwards is still ok. 

That is really inexcusable.

Here is the press release (scroll down): https://www.audi.com/en/experience-audi/models-and-technology/digital-services/audi-connect.html#:~:text=Due%20to%20a%20technical%20change,before%20the%20model%20year%202017.

This is what happens when you try to marry durable goods like cars, with the disposable, constantly changing world of consumer computer tech.

[FoMoJo]

Audis built before 2017 have lost access to  Google Earth. 

This is for the  A3, A4, A5, A6, A7, Q2, Q5, Q7, TT and R8. Apparently Google has retired an API and therefore the cars can no longer access the 3D maps. 2D still works.  The aforementioned cars can be updated if they are built from 2018 onwards. The exception is the A1, and Q3 which can not be updated at all, owners who bought the 3 year update package will be compensated.  Everything from 2019 onwards is still ok. 

That is really inexcusable.

Here is the press release (scroll down): https://www.audi.com/en/experience-audi/models-and-technology/digital-services/audi-connect.html#:~:text=Due%20to%20a%20technical%20change,before%20the%20model%20year%202017.

Doesn't seem like a big loss if 2D still works.  Who needs 3D?