*sigh*
Such things are par for the course with these cars, but it's annoying, nonetheless. Today I finally had enough time to sort ofget through the ignition stuff (which is plugs, wires, cap, rotor, points, condenser, timing, and a fancy new Lucas Sports coil). I checked the compression, too.
I didn't get everything done because I am confused about the timing marks on the timing belt cover, so I couldn't get the distributor out to replace the points and condenser because I couldn't re-time it. I replaced the coil, and it ran fine. I replaced the plugs, and it ran fine. I pulled the wires, cap, rotor, and realized I couldn't easily and accurately do the points and condenser without pulling the distributor. I poked around the points a bit, theoretically not knocking anything about.
I put the new rotor on, though it didn't seem to want to fit. I put the cap and wires on. It didn't start. I pulled the cap, etc., and replaced the new rotor with the old (because it seemed like the new one wasn't fitting right), and put the old cap on (because I knew it worked with the old rotor). It started, but ran like total shit at low RPM. It sounded like the timing was off, but I didn't knock the distributor, did I? Maybe I knocked the points out of adjustment, or maybe the new rotor did that when I was trying to start the car before? I'll be out of town (of course) for the next bit, but I think the next step is to basically finish the job. Pull the distributor, replace points/condenser, adjust timing. I will probably get a different rotor eventually.
Then, there's the compression. I got, in order from cylinders 1 to 4: 130, 115, 150, 150 psi. Way more than the 10 % variation I want, so there's something up in the first couple of cylinders. I'm not sure what to do about this, because I don't want to pay to have the head rebuilt ($$!), and I don't have the patience/skill/space to do it myself. When the car runs, it does so pretty well. I'm temped to just let it be, but I don't know what I'm risking by doing that. I guess I should do a little more research about how much it would cost to get the problem fixed. The other option is sell the car and try again...
Any ideas on the crappy running or bad compression? :banghead:
I don't know how to help you but I wouldn't sell the car, unless you're going to buy a Miata. :lol:
Or a Fiat, or an Alfa... But, yeah, I like this car. It's solid, but bad compression is, uh, bad.
pfffft.... that compression will be fine, as long as it's not the head gasket or valves
Which it probably is. The MG expert on YouTube (odd idea, I know) says it's usually the exhaust valves.
oh yeah, did you do a wet compression test? squirt a bit of oil down there and do it again. this will tell you if of's the rings or something else
I didn't do that. How much oil? Couple of drops, or an ounce or so? If the compression is better during the wet test, that means the rings are bad?
right, the oil would sedl up the rings if they are the problem, so the numbers should go up a lot. just put a bit down there, like a tablespoon or so.
http://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/read.php?1,994443,994443#msg-994443 (http://www.mgexperience.net/phorum/read.php?1,994443,994443#msg-994443)
^ Thread on the MG Experience forums about this...
So is this what the MG Experience is like?
Apparently...
I knew what I was getting into, this time, though. :lol:
I personally have put distributors in off by a tooth or two (not sure if this is possible with this engine), and got the exact same results.
115 vs. 150 is a pretty big variation, but meh - if in ain't blowing blue smoke or eating a quart every 250 miles, I wouldn't worry about it.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 30, 2008, 02:06:13 AM
I personally have put distributors in off by a tooth or two (not sure if this is possible with this engine), and got the exact same results.
115 vs. 150 is a pretty big variation, but meh - if in ain't blowing blue smoke or eating a quart every 250 miles, I wouldn't worry about it.
I'm with Cougs here, if it runs (when it runs) and shows none of the outward signs of failure that he mentioned, I would not pull that head. I see minor problems all the time that people want chased down because they think it is worse than it is. Car repair hypochondria.
On of my VWs showed 90 on #3, the cylinder that always burns a valve, while the others are hovering around 120-130. Doesn't use oil, doesn't leak oil, doesn't smoke and it doesn't misfire. Still gets 28-30 on the highway.
If you were "fiddling" with the points, even a small amount of grease or dirt can cause a no start. Been there, done that. Take a Q-tip, or a lint-free cloth, and swab the contact surfaces with alcohol.
Quote from: Psilos on December 29, 2008, 09:57:35 PM
*sigh*
I put the new rotor on, though it didn't seem to want to fit. I put the cap and wires on. It didn't start. I pulled the cap, etc., and replaced the new rotor with the old (because it seemed like the new one wasn't fitting right), and put the old cap on (because I knew it worked with the old rotor). It started, but ran like total shit at low RPM.
Then, there's the compression. I got, in order from cylinders 1 to 4: 130, 115, 150, 150 psi. Way more than the 10 % variation I want, so there's something up in the first couple of cylinders. I'm not sure what to do about this, because I don't want to pay to have the head rebuilt ($$!), and I don't have the patience/skill/space to do it myself. When the car runs, it does so pretty well. I'm temped to just let it be, but I don't know what I'm risking by doing that. I guess I should do a little more research about how much it would cost to get the problem fixed. The other option is sell the car and try again...
Any ideas on the crappy running or bad compression? :banghead:
Runs like crap:
The E-type owners lists have also noted a bunch of bad rotors lately. Foreign made crap that doesn't really fit. I'd try putting the old cap back on as well and see if that makes a difference. If not then you have done something to the points or timing, or perhaps you have a bad plug wire. Make sure you have the dist cap properly seated when you reinstall it. Not a biggie, just take your time and work your way through it.
Compression:
Could be a biggie. 150 pounds sounds about right if you have an 8 to 1 compression engine. You want a variance of no more than 10%. First do the wet compression test as others have suggested. a tablespoon should be enough for each cyl. When you do the tests make sure you have the carb butterflys wide open (or the carb piston all the way up if you are talking SUs). Follow the directions that came with the tester. If the reading goes up it's rings, if not it's a head gasket or valves.
You should hope it doesn't go up. A head gasket and/or valve job is much less hassle and expense than rings.
Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I'll check the list when I get back next weekend.
I'll do the wet compression test, but it's not blowing blue smoke, so that's a good sign. I'm not sure about oil consumption. I haven't driven it that many miles, and it does leak like a 17th century trade ship. I suppose I'm not too worried about it, since it runs well.
I tried with the old rotor and cap, and that's when it started but ran poorly. The folks at the MG Experience board suggested looking for physical damage to all those plastic ignition parts, so I'll do that, too. I'll try with the old plug wires, just to be sure.
But now I must drive off to Seattle!
Quote from: Psilos on December 30, 2008, 11:17:55 AM
Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I'll check the list when I get back next weekend.
I'll do the wet compression test, but it's not blowing blue smoke, so that's a good sign. I'm not sure about oil consumption. I haven't driven it that many miles, and it does leak like a 17th century trade ship. I suppose I'm not too worried about it, since it runs well.
I tried with the old rotor and cap, and that's when it started but ran poorly. The folks at the MG Experience board suggested looking for physical damage to all those plastic ignition parts, so I'll do that, too. I'll try with the old plug wires, just to be sure.
But now I must drive off to Seattle!
There are retrofit kits for those distributors, btw, which may improve ignition system performance.
Oh and have fun in Seattle, it was pretty with a bit of snow on the ground when I flew through there sunday night.
It's pretty much melted except for the piles left behind by the snowplows.
Oh good. When I passed through on the weekend of the 20th I heard stories about folks abandoning cars and whatnot... kinda odd over five inches of snow till you realize that seattle doesn't get much snow so their ability to remove it is limited.
We throw sand on everything, because it's more environmentally friendly than salt...
but recently we found out that it isn't...
yet we do it anyways...
Quote from: Laconian on December 30, 2008, 05:10:09 PM
We throw sand on everything, because it's more environmentally friendly than salt...
but recently we found out that it isn't...
yet we do it anyways...
Salt at least washes away with the rain.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 30, 2008, 05:22:07 PM
Salt at least washes away with the rain.
But da wildlyfe! (http://k53.pbase.com/u48/investorguy/upload/30678380.29521795.gay.gif)
Quote from: Secret Chimp on December 30, 2008, 05:58:02 PM
But da wildlyfe! (http://k53.pbase.com/u48/investorguy/upload/30678380.29521795.gay.gif)
Thinks salt tastes better than sand too!
Quote from: Secret Chimp on December 30, 2008, 05:58:02 PM
But da wildlyfe! (http://k53.pbase.com/u48/investorguy/upload/30678380.29521795.gay.gif)
Salt licks are set out for wild life...as well, as horses and cattle.
Ok, so hunters actually set out salt licks to draw deer out into the open. So, I guess salt is bad for wild life.
Quote from: JWC on December 30, 2008, 07:44:37 PM
Salt licks are set out for wild life...as well, as horses and cattle.
Ok, so hunters actually set out salt licks to draw deer out into the open. So, I guess salt is bad for wild life.
Not quite as bad as lead.
Especially 168 grains of lead traveling at 2700 feet per second.
So, ahem, apparently, I might be in idiot. I went out to move the car out of the garage this morning, and it started right up! I drove it around until it was warm, and it ran great. So I'm not sure what was up last night... Maybe I flooded the engine and didn't give it enough time to recover? I gave it five or so minutes... Oh well, all is well now, and disregard this thread.
0_0
I'm wondering if it's a common problem among car guys. Some days I get behind the wheel, and nothing seems to go right. The engine sounds off, the handling feels sloppy, and I can't shift worth a damn. Then I climb in the next day, and everything feels perfect, and I'm one with the car.
Must be the milk I had with breakfast... :lol:
I can sympathize with that.
Quote from: Tave on December 30, 2008, 11:40:51 PM
I'm wondering if it's a common problem among car guys. Some days I get behind the wheel, and nothing seems to go right. The engine sounds off, the handling feels sloppy, and I can't shift worth a damn. Then I climb in the next day, and everything feels perfect, and I'm one with the car.
It seems to happen when I get too used to driving a particular vehicle. It's good to take a break and drive something else for a while, then get back to it. Re-getting-used-to a car forces me to pay more attention to my senses, and therefore make improvements.
I probably got too confident with my mechanical abilities/methods. :lol:
Quote from: Psilos on December 30, 2008, 11:37:13 PM
So, ahem, apparently, I might be in idiot. I went out to move the car out of the garage this morning, and it started right up! I drove it around until it was warm, and it ran great. So I'm not sure what was up last night... Maybe I flooded the engine and didn't give it enough time to recover? I gave it five or so minutes... Oh well, all is well now, and disregard this thread.
0_0
You were, apparently, unaware that British cars have minds of their own. I nicknamed my dad's TR3 "Christine." At one point he was trying to sell it and every time someone would come to test drive it, something would happen. Most commonly it wouldn't start, but the clutch went out on a guy a couple miles out of the driveway and the brakes died on another guy. No mechanical problems before these people came to look at her, but there was always something wrong when somebody wanted to take her around the block. Oddly enough, we could rarely find a reason for the problem after the prospective buyer left...the old girl just didn't want to leave, apparently.
Quote from: Psilos on December 30, 2008, 11:37:13 PM
So, ahem, apparently, I might be in idiot. I went out to move the car out of the garage this morning, and it started right up! I drove it around until it was warm, and it ran great. So I'm not sure what was up last night... Maybe I flooded the engine and didn't give it enough time to recover? I gave it five or so minutes... Oh well, all is well now, and disregard this thread.
0_0
This thing have twin carbs on it? If so, you could have had a stuck needle on one of the carbs, when you started it up oinly one was giving the engine gas.
Had the same thing happen last week with the E-type (3 SU carbs). One needle stuck and it ran like crap, wouldn't idle. Gave each float bowl a rap with a rubber hammer to knock the needle valve loose and it started right up.
Yeah, twin SUs. That makes sense, and I'll keep that in mind if it happens again. Danke.
I got off my ass today, and diagnosed the compression. I re-did my valve job (it was too tight), and opened the throttle all the way (a pain in the ass, BTW) this time. Numbers were basically the same, so I did a wet test on the lowest cylinder. Compression went from 115 psi to 125 psi, so it looks like it's at least partly the piston rings, and probably both rings and valves. Oh well, I'm not gonna worry about it. It's an old car.
I was going to finish the ignition stuff, but I forgot to get some tools, and the store was closed. Blast, I guess I'll try to do it all tomorrow.
And the damned Ranger is 1000 miles overdue for an oil change... (I found out that it leaks, too. *sigh* I guess some of the British wore off on my American truck. :lol: )
Oh, yeah, but with the better valve job, plugs, wires, and Lucas Sport Coil, the things is running (and starting) better than ever (just have to wait for the engine to warm up-- it's crappy until then). I can't wait to hear it after I finish the ignition and do the carbs!
Oh! And I may have fixed the heater. The valve on the engine was sticking closed, so I opened it. But the interior/defrost selector switch is broken, so I have to hope it's stuck on interior. :P We'll see tomorrow morning with the top down!
What the hell do you need a heater for on a Brit ragtop?
Is that a real question? :lol:
It was 35 deg. F this morning! Of course, the top was down, anyway...
OK! So tune-up finally complete! I got the ignition done last weekend, and today, I did the carbs. Idle is set to 900 or so rpm, carbs are balanced, and mixture is more than less correct. Yippie!
On to the next thing...
Turbo?
Fa! How un-British! Only the best technology from 1960 will do!
Quote from: Psilos on February 02, 2009, 12:44:49 AM
Fa! How un-British! Only the best technology from 1960 will do!
Gigantic front-mounted supercharger. Bentley did it.
Quote from: Psilos on February 01, 2009, 08:49:53 PM
OK! So tune-up finally complete! I got the ignition done last weekend, and today, I did the carbs. Idle is set to 900 or so rpm, carbs are balanced, and mixture is more than less correct. Yippie!
On to the next thing...
The car is just setting you up so that when it spectacularly falls apart, the shock will be greater :lol:
STFU. I paid for that! The car gods are cool with me now because I bought another sports car.
:lol: