My car's body work is not in the best of shape. Granted, there isn't much rust on the body, but whoever had the car last, bondo'ed but didn't sand, and just sprayed over. Around my rear wheel well, the bondo is caked on and black and doesn't look very good. To add insult to injury, Neons in general are notorious for having some pretty shoddy paintwork from the factory.
Here's what I want to do:
- My front and rear bumpers are textured and the front one is cracked (almost split). I plan on getting new bumpers. My front driver's side fender and trunklid could also use replacing, too.
This is where I run into a problem.
- How much should a paintjob cost? I don't want the most $$$ paintjob, I just want to look nicer than it is.
- Would going to Maaco be a waste?
- Should I just rattlecan the fender/bumper/other pieces (or find a black bumper and the like, but there aren't that many black Neons)
- How much/advantageous would it be for me to have a professional shop just paint parts like the Bumper, hood, trunk ect....
- Would the above solution be more cost effective?
- Is it even possible to sand/refine hardened, painted over bondo?
Really good paint jobs are $Texas, and the cheapo shops can get it to look better than I imagine it does for $400 or so. I mean, it's gonna be a shitty paint job, but it sounds like your current paint is even worse, so...
Didn't know you drove a Neon. Sorry.
:lol:
Depends on how much longer you're going to have it- is it worth the few hundred bucks? Is it worth going to the junkyard for a bumper? (you'll more than likely find a black one.) Is it worth the time masking to do the rattle can?
A good paint job will cost you. A cheap one will be SHIT. That's about it.
Now I've seen some "ok" ones from Maaco before. But they don't really do much sanding. They over spray everything. And I'm not even sure if they wash the car off before doing anything to it. I've seen dirt and bugs on the car, under the paint before with them. If you could do all the work with R&I all the lights and stuff and did the sanding then it could turn out ok. Not good but just better then what you've got.
A good paint job will cost more then your car is worth
Back in High School, a friend and I bought a Hyundai Pony to screw around for $150. Yeah, it sucked ass, but that's not the point.
Everything about it sucked - the heater didn't work (except in the summer) the windows notoriously jammed, the four speed stick was a total failure in every sense of the word, it was dog slow, and the paint sucked (it wasn't like the Mazda 323 the two of us later purchased with a 8" x 8" rusted out hole over the rear drivers side tire, but that's another story)
We followed an internet tutorial on how to do a spray paint paint job. It cost about $55 dollars when all was said and done, but in the end, we had one decent looking Hyundai Pony, painted entirely in chrome Rustolium.
Yeah, we got pulled over and it was deemed unfit for the road, but we still did take it out every once in a while.
Anyways,
http://www.instructables.com/id/Paint-Your-Car-With-Rustoleum/
Quote from: Submariner on July 31, 2010, 09:48:24 AM
painted entirely in chrome Rustolium.
Yeah, we got pulled over and it was deemed unfit for the road, but we still did take it out every once in a while.
haha WIN
Did you get pulled over because of the blindingly shiny BLING?????
Quote from: 2o6 on July 30, 2010, 08:30:46 PM
- Would going to Maaco be a waste?
A high end paint job can cost big bucks. I paid $8,000 and a piano (wife discovered what the paint job cost :lol:) for paint work on the Jaguar. Most of the cost was in the prep work, something like 60 hours of block sanding for example.
Maaco's pricing will be for masking, some light sanding, and respraying the exterior panels. Any additional body work will cost you. I had a car painted at Maaco and I was quite pleased, but I had removed alll the chrome, lights, etc. Maaco used to have sales with decent discounts about twice a year. They may still do that. Check their web site. Maaco's a franchise and each store is different. check out the work underway when you go there to talk to them.
You might also check out some mom and pop shops. They generally have little overhead so they are generally cheaper and some turn out amazing work.
Maybe a year or so ago I got an estimate at my local dealership for what it would cost to repair some rust on my one rear fender and around the 3rd brake light on the trunk and IIRC they quoted like $500 (they said they'd have to paint both fenders).
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on July 31, 2010, 09:53:17 AM
haha WIN
Did you get pulled over because of the blindingly shiny BLING?????
The Chrome Pony was like a giant emergency reflector people stranded out in the wilderness use, except it could reach 60MPH (sometimes) and reeked of the faint but unmistakable smell of cat urine.
Also keep in mind that places like Maaco use the cheapest stuff they can get. If it's just a cheap paint job then that's ok. But don't look for much.
Quote from: Onslaught on July 31, 2010, 10:44:41 AM
Also keep in mind that places like Maaco use the cheapest stuff they can get. If it's just a cheap paint job then that's ok. But don't look for much.
My car was $1000. I'm not trying to spend more than $500 for the whole ordeal.
Quote from: Onslaught on July 31, 2010, 07:20:05 AM
A good paint job will cost you. A cheap one will be SHIT. That's about it.
Now I've seen some "ok" ones from Maaco before. But they don't really do much sanding. They over spray everything. And I'm not even sure if they wash the car off before doing anything to it. I've seen dirt and bugs on the car, under the paint before with them. If you could do all the work with R&I all the lights and stuff and did the sanding then it could turn out ok. Not good but just better then what you've got.
See, I'm thinking I could get some primer (and sand down those rough spots) and prime the car for cheap. Then take it to Maaco (or some other local shop) and let them paint it.
Quote from: Submariner on July 31, 2010, 09:48:24 AM
Back in High School, a friend and I bought a Hyundai Pony to screw around for $150. Yeah, it sucked ass, but that's not the point.
Everything about it sucked - the heater didn't work (except in the summer) the windows notoriously jammed, the four speed stick was a total failure in every sense of the word, it was dog slow, and the paint sucked (it wasn't like the Mazda 323 the two of us later purchased with a 8" x 8" rusted out hole over the rear drivers side tire, but that's another story)
We followed an internet tutorial on how to do a spray paint paint job. It cost about $55 dollars when all was said and done, but in the end, we had one decent looking Hyundai Pony, painted entirely in chrome Rustolium.
Yeah, we got pulled over and it was deemed unfit for the road, but we still did take it out every once in a while.
Anyways,
http://www.instructables.com/id/Paint-Your-Car-With-Rustoleum/
I'm looking for an OK paintjob, not a rustoleum crapola because I don't really care about this car.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on July 31, 2010, 05:03:32 AM
Didn't know you drove a Neon. Sorry.
:lol:
Depends on how much longer you're going to have it- is it worth the few hundred bucks? Is it worth going to the junkyard for a bumper? (you'll more than likely find a black one.) Is it worth the time masking to do the rattle can?
It's hard to find a black bumpers. However, I'm tempted to leave it be if I can find black bodyparts.
If you do the prep work, Maaco would turn out pretty good. It's hard to find your own facility and spraygun...
If you're going to be stuck with a crap paint job, you should embrace it and do it in a ironic, self-deprecating style, like Subby's friend did. Maybe you could get a local airbrush artist to do something cool.
Quote from: Laconian on July 31, 2010, 02:07:02 PM
If you're going to be stuck with a crap paint job, you should embrace it and do it in a ironic, self-deprecating style, like Subby's friend did. Maybe you could get a local airbrush artist to do something cool.
No.
Yes.
Just flat black it.
If you're going to sand and prime the damn thing, you may as well just finish it off.
Quote from: Onslaught on July 31, 2010, 02:38:43 PM
Just flat black it.
No.
Quote from: Tave on July 31, 2010, 06:09:30 PM
If you're going to sand and prime the damn thing, you may as well just finish it off.
That is if I can get access to the right equipment.
I think the cheapest option would be to rattle can the bad spot(s), sand down the bondo (and paint it) then find a black neon and take the desired bodypanels.
Cause when school starts, I won't have time to actually get the car painted.
Forget rattle-canning it. Go for the brushed-on look. Or buy black duct tape (electrical tape might also work) and cover the bad spots with that.
Quote from: Submariner on July 31, 2010, 09:48:24 AM
Back in High School, a friend and I bought a Hyundai Pony to screw around for $150. Yeah, it sucked ass, but that's not the point.
Everything about it sucked - the heater didn't work (except in the summer) the windows notoriously jammed, the four speed stick was a total failure in every sense of the word, it was dog slow, and the paint sucked (it wasn't like the Mazda 323 the two of us later purchased with a 8" x 8" rusted out hole over the rear drivers side tire, but that's another story)
We followed an internet tutorial on how to do a spray paint paint job. It cost about $55 dollars when all was said and done, but in the end, we had one decent looking Hyundai Pony, painted entirely in chrome Rustolium.
Yeah, we got pulled over and it was deemed unfit for the road, but we still did take it out every once in a while.
Anyways,
http://www.instructables.com/id/Paint-Your-Car-With-Rustoleum/
Either do this or nothing.
Seriously, stop buying random shit for your car, save it instead, and get a better car in awhile.
Just take it to Maaco. If you're looking to spend under 500 bucks I think they're your best bet! Hell I had them paint my 5 point Oh back in '95 and it turned out nice. :huh:
$500 is half a new car. :huh:
For beater cars you must go cheap or get burned when it's time for another beater.
Quote from: gotta-qik-z28 on August 03, 2010, 12:16:08 AM
Just take it to Maaco. If you're looking to spend under 500 bucks I think they're your best bet! Hell I had them paint my 5 point Oh back in '95 and it turned out nice. :huh:
And Maaco used to offer 1/2 price specials all the time. I haven't seen an ad in awhile so I don't know what the going price is today. Check with a local franchise.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on August 02, 2010, 05:57:44 PM
Either do this or nothing.
Seriously, stop buying random shit for your car, save it instead, and get a better car in awhile.
:rolleyes:
This is not relevant to the thread, so leave.
Quote from: EtypeJohn on August 03, 2010, 07:38:59 AM
And Maaco used to offer 1/2 price specials all the time. I haven't seen an ad in awhile so I don't know what the going price is today. Check with a local franchise.
I'm considering just getting black bumpers, trunk and quarter panel and leaving it at that.
Quote from: EtypeJohn on August 03, 2010, 07:38:59 AM
And Maaco used to offer 1/2 price specials all the time. I haven't seen an ad in awhile so I don't know what the going price is today. Check with a local franchise.
I usually see the ads in the spring along with the 99 dollar bumper special.
Quote from: gotta-qik-z28 on August 03, 2010, 09:07:59 AM
I usually see the ads in the spring along with the 99 dollar bumper special.
I wqas going to suggest Earl Scheib but I see they closed their doors on the 16th of July
Quote from: EtypeJohn on August 03, 2010, 09:21:47 AM
I wqas going to suggest Earl Scheib but I see they closed their doors on the 16th of July
There's one on the West side of Cleveland. Now I've seen some horrid paint jobs from those guys.
Quote from: gotta-qik-z28 on August 03, 2010, 09:43:12 AM
There's one on the West side of Cleveland. Now I've seen some horrid paint jobs from those guys.
It's no longer a franchise national chain. Many of the individual stores are now independently owned and operated and just kept the name.
From earlscheib.com:
Effective July 16, 2010, Earl Scheib, Inc. has ceased operations nationwide. Each store is now independently owned and operated by a person unaffiliated with Earl Scheib, Inc. Based on this change, customer warranties of Earl Scheib, Inc. will no longer be able to be honored at these stores or by Earl Scheib, Inc. We truly apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you, however we believe the independent owners and operators will continue to provide the same great service that Earl Scheib, Inc. offered for almost 80 years.
I remember when they advertised to "paint any car for $29.95". A quick wash, some masking, paint delivered in 55 gallon drums. There were stories of them painting over bird poop.
Quote from: EtypeJohn on August 03, 2010, 10:09:25 AM
It's no longer a franchise national chain. Many of the individual stores are now independently owned and operated and just kept the name.
From earlscheib.com:
Effective July 16, 2010, Earl Scheib, Inc. has ceased operations nationwide. Each store is now independently owned and operated by a person unaffiliated with Earl Scheib, Inc. Based on this change, customer warranties of Earl Scheib, Inc. will no longer be able to be honored at these stores or by Earl Scheib, Inc. We truly apologize for any inconvenience this may cause you, however we believe the independent owners and operators will continue to provide the same great service that Earl Scheib, Inc. offered for almost 80 years.
I remember when they advertised to "paint any car for $29.95". A quick wash, some masking, paint delivered in 55 gallon drums. There were stories of them painting over bird poop.
OH YEAH! Back in '89 My friends '84 Jetta had the key holes painted over and had overspray on the headlights. And I just saw the Maaco bumper special on TV! It cost 129 bucks now!
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?154272
QuoteActually, you can get good results at Maaco, if you do good prep work before hand. Prep is almost all the labor cost in a high quality paint job (true, the materials themselves are more expensive: Real urethanes rather than the synthetic enamels with urethane catalysts that Maaco uses), so if you're careful, you can get a good job for cheap with Maaco and your work. (You may not go, but others reading this might, and this will help get the best job possible).
A good shop will often have to go over the car anyway, so you won't save too much by doing work yourself, unless you are confident enough in your prep work just to have them spray over it... But there are still steps you can take to save some labor and time.
Remove as much trim as is possible. Removing trim means 1) not having tape lines, and 2) someone else isn't responsible for loss or damage. It also means that the prep work can be done right under where the trim was, for a higher quality finish job (and edges around trim is where jobs usually fall down when economizing. Lack of sanding right next to trim can cause paint to peel later). If you're changing color, also remove door panels and carpet edge trim in the door jambs. Do a thourough job of cleaning the jambs (even if you're not changing color. This keeps dirt from coming back out into the new paint. A good shop will do it, but it's labor, and you can save time there.) On the same lines, clean the engine compartment thoroughly. Get a good degreaser/wax remover, and go over the whole car. Especially the door jambs, as years of Armor All can accumulate and cause problems (Armor All and the like are silicone sealants. Paint doesn't stick to silicone, and usually has serious reaction probems to even a drop of the stuff...).
If you are doing the engine compartment, degrease everything, and pull back as much wiring as you can, or completely mask everything (an easy trick is to use aluminum foil to wrap intricate bits...)
These are basics that can save the paint shop a bit of time and hassle. It may not save much money, but the job will be better, which ends up the same thing. If you want to go farther (or go to Maaco), you can do much of the sanding yourself. On areas where no bodywork is necessary, get a sanding block and 320 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper, of good quality (3M or Mirka Gold). Carefully wet sand the body with the block (taking care around edges, so as not to sand through) untill all trace of gloss is gone, and you have a nice, even, dull finish, getting as close to the factory primer level as you dare (remember, electrostatically applied, baked alkyd enamel like the factory uses is the absolute best substrate for new paint there is... bare metal requires serious chemicals to make it so that airborne applied paint sticks and doesn't have corrosion problems later. And NO "baked" paint afterward is truly baked like the factory paint is. For one, when painting at the factory, there are no glass, trim, or interior parts installed to be damaged by high temps.) Sand in linear motions, but alternate directions to keep the sanding even and level. In the jambs (if painting them) use the 320 by hand in as much as you can reach easily. Then get 3M Scotch Brite pads (the red ones) and go after them again (the Scotch Brite gets into all the crevasses regular sandpaper can't). Use the Scotch Brite on the body crevasses that are hard to reach with sandpaper (especially around edges of panels).
Any areas where bodywork is necessary (door dings, minor dents) need to be hit quickly with 80 grit paper. Door dings need to be shown up so they can be attended to (if you want, you can do the work yourself with a high quality filler. I use USC's BaseCoat/ClearCoat, as it spreads smoothly in very thin layers, is easy to work, extremely easy to sand, and doesn't stain through the top coats. It is also light and durable (I had a customer get hit in the same spot that I had done serious bodywork on and the filler that was there not only didn't crack, it didn't separate from the body surface)). If you are going to be doing the bodywork (say before going to Maaco) try to always hammer and dolly out most of the dent, so the filler is only a skim coat to fill the minor hammer ripples left. Filler is better when thinner (anything under an eighth inch should last a lifetime). And again, try NOT to remove factory paint if at all possible, because filler sticks better to paint than to metal, and there is little chance of trapping water or corrosion that way. Just scuff it well with 80 grit (don't use 36 or 40 grit, as it tends to leave scratches that show up later after the paint and primer shrink up...) before applying. Apply filler at the exact level you need it at, so to reduce sanding later. Feather well to the outside of the dent. Use a long board or longer block sander to make sure it's even and level (waves are for beaches...).
You can get good primer results on bodywork or edges that have been sanded to metal with Krylon sandable primer, believe it or not. Just spray a couple light coats, let dry thoroughly (24 hours is best), sand lightly with 320, then spray it lightly again to level it out. Major primer areas should be shot with a catalyed urethane primer, like PPG K200 (or the flexible version for urethane bumpers). Again, let cure completely (24 hours is best, even a couple days is good). Block sand wet with 320 before taking it to the paint shop. A good trick to make sure the surface is level is to kightly spray a spray can of color (like Krylon flat black) over the primed areas, letting it dry, then hitting it with the sanding block. This guide coat will show up imperfections that can be attended to, either by more sanding, or more bodywork if necessary.
After all is completed, clean completely again with a wax and grease remover.
I noticed I didn't say anything about masking and taping... ALWAYS use a good masking tape. Cheap tape is no savings ever. 3M or Amerian Performance automotive masking tape is all you want to use. If masking needs to be done, take your time (this is why you remove the trim... so making perfect edges isn't as critical, and there are more "natural" places to mask to...)
After this, it's ready to paint.
There's more...
Quote from: ChrisV on August 20, 2010, 12:06:06 PM
http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?154272
There's more...
I saw that thread a few weeks ago. It was a very informative post.
I wouldn't put all that work into it just for a paint job on a '96 Neon, especially if you don't think you'll keep it for years to come. The only reason I would do it is for the learning experience.