No pics yet, just got home about an hour ago.
Just got home..... thoughts/impressions
- Buying experience was kind of shit. When we bought my wife's car, which we financed, it was all through 1 Eastern European dude who had us in and out in about an hour and a half. We were at this dealership (which was a big franchise) for about 4 hours. Dude was doing shit like having us dictate info on forms to him, and it was all by paper rather than computers which was just silly. He also told way too many anecdotes. Wifey kept indulging the stupid small talk. Once we were all done he asked me to ring a gong... I rang it way too loud, my ears still hurt. Paid a little over KBB though and got the same rate as wifey (2.69 I think) so that was fine.
- Interior/ergonomics are actually really good. Ton of storage space and everything really falls to the hand nicely. Gauges and switchgear look really crisp and nice, especially at night. Dual tier dash works well but I am normal height- I could see it being a problem for someone with a long torso. View out is mega in typical Honda fashion which makes it easy to drive and park. Overall good design, as is expected from Honda. I checked out a few of the current ones and can see why CR dumped on them.... they dont look as good inside. Honda took a huge risk but it was worth it, it works.
- Driving experience is cool. People saying Honda lost it when they ditched DWBs don't know what theyre talking about. OK the 7th gens were pretty fucked up. But this chassis works pretty well. Compared to wifey's car, body motions are way better controlled and it's easier to tell where the (low, tire limited) limits are. All the controls are comically light, but there's good feedback through all interfaces and the chassis in general. It's really fun. Performance is good enough for commuting... it will cruise at 90 all day no problem and NC has long onramps, slow drivers and light traffic. Drove ~100 miles home today and never said 'man I wish this thing had more power'. Shifter/clutch made dropping gears easy and in any case it's fine in top gear (which is admittedly geared a bit high, but isn't an issue as the engine is quiet).
- Compared to Rabbit, it's noisier, mainly via wind noise. Not insufferable but it's definitely worse. On the upside, it is way better dynamically. Germans are supposed to have that shit locked, but wifey's car def has a lot of unnecessary body motion and low limits. I wonder if it needs new shocks. I wouldn't mind throwing her car on some Bilstein products. All in all though it's easy to see where the extra money and weight of the Rabbit goes over its competitors. It's nicer, but I prefer the interior design of the Civic.
- Compared to the Z, obviously it's a lot slower with lower handling limits. Dynamically the differences are huge. You push the Z, you can feel the RWD dynamics. The front and rear of the car begin to lose grip together and you can feel the car rotate about its axis, even with zero or neutral throttle. With this everything is about managing front grip. It's way less cerebral than the Z, but it's still fun in its own way. I must also say, it has the nicer interior of the two. The Z is older with more miles, but even ones with the same miles/age look beat compared to the Civic. The Civics hold up.
Other weird thing is once Im up to highway speeds I keep wanting to shift to 6th. This thing doesnt have a reverse lockout so I hope Im not destroying the reverse gear. That will pass though.
Other thing I noticed was the heft of the controls of the Z are kind of silly. Everything... the shifter, the clutch, the wheel, so much heft. When you are hustling it it works I guess to help dampen inputs as it can be a little darty. But the clutch and shifter are just needlessly hefty. Im not saying that as a knock, it kind of is what it is and is part of the experience. Makes you want to grab it by the scruff of the neck.
Even though its obvious, the Z's dominance in speed is still worth mentioning. Any gear, any speed, it just goes. The right gear and speed, it takes OFF. Low gears in turns it will make the "SLIP" light lose its shit. 287HP sounds quaint today but for the street it's plenty.
- Shit to do right away..... after having HID projectors on my car and bike for a year and a half, I just can't do halogens. I have projectors from a Murano collecting dust that I will throw in some cheapo Depos. Also the stereo is pretty good from 100 Hz up, but it could definitely use more bass down low. Will hold off on that though, prob get an Inifinity Basslink or something mild like that. That's the shit that I use everyday so I will def put money there first. Mechanicals and shit are good enough.
This thing reminds me a LOT of my old Accords... and you know how I feel about those. Just with a modern twist. I like it. Good fit.
Congrats, but starting a new thread without pics...... :nono:
pics/shins/etc.
What year is it?
What car did you buy? I see it's a Honda. Odyssey?
edit: nevermind I couldn't see the full title on my phone.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 01, 2015, 06:53:12 PM
- Interior/ergonomics are actually really good. Ton of storage space and everything really falls to the hand nicely. Gauges and switchgear look really crisp and nice, especially at night. Dual tier dash works well but I am normal height- I could see it being a problem for someone with a long torso.
This was exactly my problem and a deal breaker for me. I have a 36" inseam but can wear a medium t-shirt. I need to pull the seat way back and drop it down low to fit, but that means I can't see the speedo at all. What a dumb design.
Quote from: hotrodalex on January 01, 2015, 07:42:37 PM
What car did you buy? I see it's a Honda. Odyssey?
edit: nevermind I couldn't see the full title on my phone.
Yup an odyssey, but it's the type R mugen
Quote from: thecarnut on January 01, 2015, 07:45:54 PM
This was exactly my problem and a deal breaker for me. I have a 36" inseam but can wear a medium t-shirt. I need to pull the seat way back and drop it down low to fit, but that means I can't see the speedo at all. What a dumb design.
U are a geometric outlier. The design works for most folks
These are nice cars. My old roomate had a coupe and I liked driving his a lot.
I may replace Yaris with one eventually
IMHO it's no way in hell I'd go from a 350Z to a Civic! Especially in a warm weather state! But if you like it I love it! :cheers:
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 01, 2015, 08:41:52 PM
IMHO it's no way in hell I'd go from a 350Z to a Civic! Especially in a warm weather state! But if you like it I love it! :cheers:
:lol:
Couple other thoughts
Brake feel is good, tite like prom nite.
Due to work and our getaway, ironically I wont be able to commute in this for about 2 weeks. I will get some pics up tomorrow
I'm assuming this is an 08-11 MY?
Yea an 09, its a CPO, black EX. No premium sound though
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 01, 2015, 08:04:59 PM
Yup an odyssey, but it's the type R mugen
Shoulda got the base model, 1k coils, and a tune. Way faster and livable.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 01, 2015, 10:46:41 PM
Shins? Why do you want pictures of his shins.
He's into furry things, isn't he?
Wait, you sold your 350Z and got a Civic? Is it at least an Si?
Quote from: Raza on January 01, 2015, 11:35:22 PM
Wait, you sold your 350Z and got a Civic? Is it at least an Si?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 01, 2015, 09:14:01 PM
Yea an 09, its a CPO, black EX. No premium sound though
Quote from: Raza on January 01, 2015, 11:35:22 PM
Wait, you sold your 350Z and got a Civic? Is it at least an Si?
I still have the Z, unloading it during tax season.
More importantly though, I still have the bike, and will probably be upgrading that and doing track days in it within the next 2 yrs. So my fleet performance and "purpose-fit" will both go up with this change.
That's what you get for dealing with a shifty eastern-European.
Congrats though.
Sounds like a fun experience...especially the gong.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 02, 2015, 04:45:22 AM
I still have the Z, unloading it during tax season.
More importantly though, I still have the bike, and will probably be upgrading that and doing track days in it within the next 2 yrs. So my fleet performance and "purpose-fit" will both go up with this change.
Sell the bike, sell the Z, get a Z Roadster, sell the Civic, get an Si.
Who wants bet Sporty is bored with this car in less then 3 months and wants something sportier, or he will give it stiffer suspension and then proclaim it too harsh for commuting?
Quote from: SVT666 on January 02, 2015, 09:43:40 AM
Who wants bet Sporty is bored with this car in less then 3 months and wants something sportier, or he will give it stiffer suspension and then proclaim it too harsh for commuting?
:lol:
Quote from: Raza on January 02, 2015, 09:27:13 AM
Sell the bike, sell the Z, get a Z Roadster, sell the Civic, get an Si.
I thought we were in agreement that the Z roadster sucked
And I already explained why I didnt get the Si.
If u want to buy me a Z roadster and Si though be my guest.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 02, 2015, 09:43:40 AM
Who wants bet Sporty is bored with this car in less then 3 months and wants something sportier, or he will give it stiffer suspension and then proclaim it too harsh for commuting?
Thats the beauty of a versatile platform. If I want sportier I can make it sportier. If the suspension I get is too stiff I can take it off and sell it. Finding the right setup is the fun part and theres more than enough info out there to not have to iterate. People keep saying "you should have got the Si, the suspension on the Si is better"... I would have changed it too.
I'd stance it.
Fart can first
Sticker bomb a front quarter panel, rust the hood, and extra wide wheels with stance spacers in the back. And a primer gray body kit.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 02, 2015, 02:09:47 PM
Sticker bomb a front quarter panel, rust the hood, and extra wide wheels with stance spacers in the back. And a primer gray body kit.
This could be a retro build... straight out of 2009 :lol:
Quote from: SVT666 on January 02, 2015, 09:43:40 AM
Who wants bet Sporty is bored with this car in less then 3 months and wants something sportier, or he will give it stiffer suspension and then proclaim it too harsh for commuting?
Can we do a pool on this... I will take the month of June
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 02, 2015, 11:03:40 AM
I thought we were in agreement that the Z roadster sucked
And I already explained why I didnt get the Si.
If u want to buy me a Z roadster and Si though be my guest.
The Z Roadster sucks for me, I think it would be fine for you, if you liked the hardtop.
Roadster trades much of what I like about the Z for stuff I dont care about. Plus I still have the bike. Dont project your motorcycle fears on me :lol:
Quote from: SVT666 on January 02, 2015, 09:43:40 AM
Who wants bet Sporty is bored with this car in less then 3 months and wants something sportier, or he will give it stiffer suspension and then proclaim it too harsh for commuting?
I'm in. Max 2 months after he gets rid of the Z.
I find this kind of strange, but congrats man
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 02, 2015, 06:40:44 PM
Roadster trades much of what I like about the Z for stuff I dont care about. Plus I still have the bike. Dont project your motorcycle fears on me :lol:
I get that you're trying to hold on to your youth by riding a ridiculous motorized bicycle. We both know that'll be the first thing to go the second your wife gets pregnant.
Quote from: Raza on January 02, 2015, 11:13:31 PM
I get that you're trying to hold on to your youth by riding a ridiculous motorized bicycle. We both know that'll be the first thing to go the second your wife gets pregnant.
:lol:
Bored by March.
Quote from: Raza on January 02, 2015, 11:13:31 PM
I get that you're trying to hold on to your youth by riding a ridiculous motorized bicycle. We both know that'll be the first thing to go the second your wife gets pregnant.
Actually my wife got me this motorcycle (more or less) for my... 27th birthday? But in any case I get that you want a motorcycle and are too scared to get one, which is why you are so adamant that I get rid of mine and have been suggesting I do so for years. Pls stop. I like riding and having a motorcycle. If you want a motorcycle, take the MSF course, get your license and buy a motorcycle. If you want a motorcycle, but are too scared to get on a motorcycle, don't tell others who have them to get rid of theirs to join you in your paralysis induced misery. Alright? No, I am not trading the bike and Z for a damn Z roadster. This is worse than your TT suggestion.
Motorcycles are always the first to go when kids arrive because your wife wants you to be around for your kids' graduation.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 03, 2015, 09:34:41 AM
Motorcycles are always the first to go when kids arrive because your wife wants you to be around for your kids' graduation.
Plenty of fathers ride motorcycles. There is a motorcycle lot at my job and I am easily the youngest rider there. And they are not all cruisers. Gotta_Quik_G8 has been riding sport bikes for decades and he's OK. My wife knows I'm a safe rider. Stop projecting guys
Why do we have no pics?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 03, 2015, 09:38:14 AM
Plenty of fathers ride motorcycles. There is a motorcycle lot at my job and I am easily the youngest rider there. And they are not all cruisers. Gotta_Quik_G8 has been riding sport bikes for decades and he's OK. My wife knows I'm a safe rider. Stop projecting guys
Yup. Riding a motorcycle SAFLEY is by no means a death sentence.......
Quote from: 2o6 on January 03, 2015, 10:21:28 AM
Why do we have no pics?
Im heading out now, Ill get some.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 03, 2015, 10:21:28 AM
Why do we have no pics?
Seriously, right? It's been like 48 hours, but sporty has no "time" to take pics but has time to argue about his sweet new mods. :rage: :heated:
Shens
OK
(http://i.imgur.com/OxENXJL.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/MxC3B14.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/kSb5xAO.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/jCcsC3N.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/V9ee5XQ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/1OwIzBw.jpg)
I should have checked my settings. ISO was high AF. Exterior has some blemishes but the interior is clean AF. Need to remove the haze from the headlights.
The stance of the Honda makes it look like a 4x4 next to the Z. :mask:
A friend of mine has one of these. His only complaint is the A pillar. Blocks critical vision for him.
You have the widest parking stalls I have ever seen.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 03, 2015, 02:46:46 PM
You have the widest parking stalls I have ever seen.
It's the American south. Lots of pickups and large SUVs.
I just parked shitty twice. Or maybe it's just those spots. It's pretty tight over by the buildings.
funky handbrake handle!!!!! :lol:
Oh btw congrats
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 03, 2015, 08:58:55 AM
Actually my wife got me this motorcycle (more or less) for my... 27th birthday? But in any case I get that you want a motorcycle and are too scared to get one, which is why you are so adamant that I get rid of mine and have been suggesting I do so for years. Pls stop. I like riding and having a motorcycle. If you want a motorcycle, take the MSF course, get your license and buy a motorcycle. If you want a motorcycle, but are too scared to get on a motorcycle, don't tell others who have them to get rid of theirs to join you in your paralysis induced misery. Alright? No, I am not trading the bike and Z for a damn Z roadster. This is worse than your TT suggestion.
Oh please, why would I want the midlife crisis version of a bicycle? I already own a midlife crisis version of a car, and cars are seriously superior to bicycles.
Civic looks good, by the way. Black is a good color for it.
Yea, that is a sharp looking car. I like the 8th gen Civic a lot.
Seriously, congrats. I don't understand you reasoning in getting it though.
Did you retrofit post-facelift headlights on the Z?
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 04, 2015, 01:04:07 PM
Seriously, congrats. I don't understand you reasoning in getting it though.
He owned two vehicles and neither of them could accommodate more than two people nor an appreciable amount of cargo. :huh:
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 04, 2015, 01:04:07 PM
Seriously, congrats. I don't understand you reasoning in getting it though.
Tave about covered it. Also wanted something with lower operating costs that was more relaxing to commute in, while still being fun to drive. This hits on all cylinders.
Quote from: CALL_911 on January 04, 2015, 01:25:34 PM
Did you retrofit post-facelift headlights on the Z?
Yea, they are not OEM though, they are DEPO. Still way better than what I had and OEM grade IMO. Worthwhile upgrade. I do a lot of night driving on 2 lane roads and they are so key.
Maiden commute today. My commute is 8 miles of highway, 4 miles of absolute shit strip mall surface streets, and then ~20 miles of 2 lane roads. Did fine everywhere. Limit on the 2 lanes is ~55 with the odd 45 here and there. Z feels "settled" at about 75. Civic is fine at about 65. It will do 75-90 obviously but it takes a lot more commitment, which is exactly what I wanted.
Also nice to have a radio. Z radio didn't really work well (I just did aux in... antenna was bent when I got it). Listened to NPR on the way in, helped calm me down + distract me a bit. Got tailgated a bit by some douche in a Chrysler 300.... key pass dispatched him though, that was fun.
This lighting situation is critical though. Civic's headlights with the high beams on are about as good as the Z's low beams. Found some cheap headlights I will be able to throw my Murano projectors in... I will probably tackle that project, along with a subwoofer, in February
Overall I'm happy though, definitely a good fit.
LOL the ricing begins :lol:
Glad you found what you needed to keep happy
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 05, 2015, 08:54:30 AM
LOL the ricing begins :lol:
Glad you found what you needed to keep happy
Dude, buying aftermarket headlights and cutting them up to customize the light housing is NOT ricing.
Next you will criticize LED "puddle" lights strung underneath the rocker panels.
I didn't have a problem with the civics lights. Are you sure you're just not driving around with obnoxiously bright lights blinding everyone?
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 05, 2015, 11:38:17 AM
Dude, buying aftermarket headlights and cutting them up to customize the light housing is NOT ricing.
Next you will criticize LED "puddle" lights strung underneath the rocker panels.
What's the definition of ricing? Is it not modifying the cosmetic/ non-drivetrain parts of an Asian car?????????????
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 05, 2015, 01:55:05 PM
What's the definition of ricing? Is it not modifying the cosmetic/ non-drivetrain parts of an Asian car?????????????
:rolleyes:
Cheap/easy/uninformed/poorly done modifications meant to make the car seem fast and/or custom. Headlamps aren't rice, unless they are uninformed or poorly done (i.e. blue lights, glary lights, lights that reduce the actual light available to see with, probably even lights that don't increase visibility for the driver, etc.).
Quote from: thecarnut on January 05, 2015, 12:29:41 PM
I didn't have a problem with the civics lights. Are you sure you're just not driving around with obnoxiously bright lights blinding everyone?
You are used to halogen light
I am deff not blinding anyone. At least no more than anyone with OEM HID projectors. My 350 lights are DOT approved. Only difference between that and what I'd have in the civic would be no auto level adjustments.
I don't do that glare bullshit. Aside from auto leveling the civic step would be OEM grade
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 05, 2015, 01:55:05 PM
What's the definition of ricing? Is it not modifying the cosmetic/ non-drivetrain parts of an Asian car?????????????
Jeez dude, take it easy on the question marks.
Heres the diff between plug n play kits in reflectors and projector retrofits, in a nutshell
(http://sportsautotech.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/pnp-vs-retrofit-cutoff-output1.jpg)
That's the idea of course, but you really can't tell anything from photos of light like that. Too many other variables.
Somewhat fair point but again, Murano projector is OEM... the beam shape is good as is the distribution
All that glare above the reflector cutoff is why people hate HID kits.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 05, 2015, 11:38:17 AM
Dude, buying aftermarket headlights and cutting them up to customize the light housing is NOT ricing.
You're right, it's called ghetto.
Its called blind everyone else on the road I ought to kill you and probably by accident because I can't fucking see anything. Nothing wrong with halogens and I can't believe HID are even legal. Any HID car driving on a bumpy road looks like a strove light and confuses the fuck out of anyone
Quote from: SVT666 on January 05, 2015, 05:42:25 PM
You're right, it's called ghetto.
U have no idea what u are talking about
Quote from: thecarnut on January 05, 2015, 03:26:48 PM
Jeez dude, take it easy on the question marks.
they're free.......................................................................................
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 05, 2015, 06:05:51 PM
they're free.......................................................................................
:clap:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 05, 2015, 04:31:11 PM
Somewhat fair point but again, Murano projector is OEM... the beam shape is good as is the distribution
All that glare above the reflector cutoff is why people hate HID kits.
Not saying you're wrong, just that automotive lighting is full of misinformation, dumb marketing, aggressive ignorance, etc., and it's one of the areas of car modification that most affects other drivers.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 05, 2015, 06:05:51 PM
they're free.......................................................................................
Those dumbass question marks bug me, too, but I will +1 this reply. :lol:
As supposed king of rice on his forum (see my BRZ thread) , I side with sporty. I've got really sensitive eyes, and HIDs aren't a tenth as bad as misaligned reflectors or idiots who drive with their brights on everywhere. There's a ton of those around here for some reason.
They're bad if they're not done right. Otherwise they're just another bright bulb.
HID projectors, even bad ones, are OK if they are properly aimed WRT other drivers. Good HID projectors aimed right are pretty much the king of the roost lighting wise.
I will probably get wifey a set of GTI xenon headlights this year too. Thats one place where I just dont compromise.
Whatever. I'll just get some of thses stupid yellow glasses
(http://www.hdnightvisionreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/hd-night-vision-wraparounds-before-after02.jpg)
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 05, 2015, 01:55:05 PM
What's the definition of ricing? Is it not modifying the cosmetic/ non-drivetrain parts of an Asian car?????????????
Rice is racing inspired cosmetic enhancements and isn't limited to just japanese cars.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 05, 2015, 07:12:04 PM
HID projectors, even bad ones, are OK if they are properly aimed WRT other drivers. Good HID projectors aimed right are pretty much the king of the roost lighting wise.
I will probably get wifey a set of GTI xenon headlights this year too. Thats one place where I just dont compromise.
I'll grant projectors as the better tech, not sure about HIDs. There is a point where even extremely well-controlled projection isn't good enough for ultra-bright bulbs. EotT mentioned being strobed by bright HIDs on bumpy roads, and the same idea applies coming over the crest of a hill. At some point, it's dangerous.
Further, you do want a little scatter in order to light up road signs and other reflectors. At some point, even the little scatter projectors are (should be) designed to have is too bright.
I am not sure how but all my projectors have enough scatter to light up signs
Theres no way (ATM) to deal with the crest thing. Even halogen projectors are problematic in that regard. Hell on a road with no road lights modern halogen headlights can be blinding. Kind of is what it is.
I do agree though that some folks do overkill. I've seen people mod HID ballasts to run 100W. 35W is plenty with well designed optics... I wish for better optics, never more power.
Right, the hill thing (and bumpy road thing-- I've seen that too) is why too bright is a thing. I don't have a reference for how bright that is in terms of wattage or lumens, though.
Quote from: MrH on January 05, 2015, 06:49:36 PM
As supposed king of rice on his forum (see my BRZ thread) , I side with sporty. I've got really sensitive eyes, and HIDs aren't a tenth as bad as misaligned reflectors or idiots who drive with their brights on everywhere. There's a ton of those around here for some reason.
YOU'RE the king of rice on this forum? I don't think so.
I had an AEM sticker on my first Accord... no AEM products ever, in my life, though. I have had 3 Hondas. I had a Maxima that was dropped 3 inches. Its clear who the king is.
alright, BRING IT, sticker count as of RIGHT NOW. :lol:
I have 4.
-Wyoming bucking bronco
-US Army
-Giant bicycles
-Subaru badges
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 06, 2015, 07:47:02 AM
alright, BRING IT, sticker count as of RIGHT NOW. :lol:
I have 4.
-Wyoming bucking bronco
-US Army
-Giant bicycles
-Subaru badges
I have like 8 on the Miata...
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 06, 2015, 04:44:57 AM
I had an AEM sticker on my first Accord... no AEM products ever, in my life, though. I have had 3 Hondas. I had a Maxima that was dropped 3 inches. Its clear who the king is.
Bro, my car is pretty much slammed to the max, has the loudest exhaust system short of straight pipes and has yellow wheels, plus a bucket seat, purple dash and harness and a baby blue rollbar with camo tape on it.
You guys ain't even on my level.
uhh ohh
Rice-off
It's going down like china town in this bitch
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 06, 2015, 07:47:02 AM
alright, BRING IT, sticker count as of RIGHT NOW. :lol:
I have 4.
-Wyoming bucking bronco
-US Army
-Giant bicycles
-Subaru badges
18 stickers, but not a one is rice (and neither are yours, fortunately).
^ Explorer not 944. 944 has one sticker; a jolly roger.
Quote from: Rupert on January 06, 2015, 02:15:05 PM
18 stickers, but not a one is rice (and neither are yours, fortunately).
What are yours? (just curious- I lost to at least 2 of y'all so far)
BTW the Subaru badges are ricey. Somewhat anyway.
I have rally flaps with rally flap logos (counts as four stickers?), modified suspension, oversized tires, polished lip rimz, a holy muffler, an intake tube hanging below my bumper, a DC Sport strut tower bar, red LED strips in my foot wells, red interior lughts, amber license plate lamps, a red tow hook and the remnants of a 'ring sticker even though I've never left this continent.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 06, 2015, 07:19:36 PM
What are yours? (just curious- I lost to at least 2 of y'all so far)
BTW the Subaru badges are ricey. Somewhat anyway.
Too many to list.
"Power To The Peaceful!"
"Coexist (made of all the religious symbols)"
:lol:
"Powered by granola" :lol:
Yea, commuting in is pretty nice with this car. Actually has enough power to pass on 2 lane roads too. Handling is actually pretty good too. It def doesn't throw in the towel like the Rabbit, and its limits dont seem far off from, but more importantly are nowhere near as scary to approach as the Z's. Civic actually has less weight on its nose (~100lbs), so with 225-235s up front, a lowered suspension and RSB I think it would pretty much be on the level of the Z, but with lower wheel rates and by extension much better ride quality.
The stock suspension is actually tuned pretty nicely too. Car feels "springy" but controls body motions well. KW makes Suspension Techniques coilovers that are like 25% stiffer than stock, and separate ride height adjustments from travel. Even have helper springs. Pretty much KW V1s for half the price. So I will probably be going with those, summer wheels/tires and some kind of RSB. Stock brakes are not terrible but I am already getting judders on the highway. Rear EX brakes are the same as Si's so those stay... but for the hassle of changing rotors/pads it won't be much more cost/time to do front calipers. TSX calipers/rotors swap right on. Gonna take my time with all that though, probably won't get into this until well after we are settled in the new house.
Still trying to figure out what to do about audio. Plan for now is no subs. IB 6.5s in the stock rear deck location, possibly the front too (the ones I see go up to 2500Hz and I have a separate tweeter), amped of course and plenty of sound dampening/door sealing. Should be enough, I'm not 18.
That along with an intake for more growl will probably be it. "B-b-b-but you should have got the Si" Again I would have done all these mods to it anyway.
Recalling a 335i test drive I did a while back, I have to say I prefer the Civic's interior. Materials were (marginally) better in the 3 (from what I can remember), but I still prefer the design of the Civic. The gauges are def where the Civic wins hands down. 335i also felt a lot heavier (as it was). Neighbor has an 06 325i and its just not that nice inside.
that whole post makes me :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 07, 2015, 08:50:50 AM
Yea, commuting in is pretty nice with this car. Actually has enough power to pass on 2 lane roads too. Handling is actually pretty good too. It def doesn't throw in the towel like the Rabbit, and its limits dont seem far off from, but more importantly are nowhere near as scary to approach as the Z's. Civic actually has less weight on its nose (~100lbs), so with 225-235s up front, a lowered suspension and RSB I think it would pretty much be on the level of the Z, but with lower wheel rates and by extension much better ride quality.
The stock suspension is actually tuned pretty nicely too. Car feels "springy" but controls body motions well. KW makes Suspension Techniques coilovers that are like 25% stiffer than stock, and separate ride height adjustments from travel. Even have helper springs. Pretty much KW V1s for half the price. So I will probably be going with those, summer wheels/tires and some kind of RSB. Stock brakes are not terrible but I am already getting judders on the highway. Rear EX brakes are the same as Si's so those stay... but for the hassle of changing rotors/pads it won't be much more cost/time to do front calipers. TSX calipers/rotors swap right on. Gonna take my time with all that though, probably won't get into this until well after we are settled in the new house.
Still trying to figure out what to do about audio. Plan for now is no subs. IB 6.5s in the stock rear deck location, possibly the front too (the ones I see go up to 2500Hz and I have a separate tweeter), amped of course and plenty of sound dampening/door sealing. Should be enough, I'm not 18.
That along with an intake for more growl will probably be it. "B-b-b-but you should have got the Si" Again I would have done all these mods to it anyway.
Recalling a 335i test drive I did a while back, I have to say I prefer the Civic's interior. Materials were (marginally) better in the 3 (from what I can remember), but I still prefer the design of the Civic. The gauges are def where the Civic wins hands down. 335i also felt a lot heavier (as it was). Neighbor has an 06 325i and its just not that nice inside.
And that folks is how you rationalize your car purchase when going from a sports car to a (nice) econobox.
Now we're comparing the Civic to a 335i? You've gone mad.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 07, 2015, 09:42:39 AM
And that folks is how you rationalize your car purchase when going from a sports car to a (nice) econobox.
Now we're comparing the Civic to a 335i? You've gone mad.
That's just like, his, opinion man.
:rastaman:
Naw, like I said the rationale = car that's cheaper and easier to own and more suited to the bulk of driving I do
The fact that I can mod it to my tastes and have it still be cheaper and easier to own + suited to the bulking of driving I do than the Z is just icing on the cake.
I dont find value in saying "I drive a sports car" or need a sports car to enjoy driving.
And yea the 335i I drove was disappointing. Not comparing them directly, obviously they are totally different classes. But I didn't come away impressed with the 3 for what it was and for what they were charging for it. For my commute and driving record, all it would really have added was less road noise.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 07, 2015, 09:42:39 AM
And that folks is how you rationalize your car purchase when going from a sports car to a (nice) econobox.
Now we're comparing the Civic to a 335i? You've gone mad.
Just wait until he dumps a few grand into it(suspension, brakes, wheels/tires, etc).
You'd better be nice, he just might come gunning for you and your 1M.
235's are overkill for a car with 130HP at the wheels, max.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 07, 2015, 12:30:17 PM
235's are overkill for a car with 130HP at the wheels, max.
Depends if he's using a 10" or 12" wide rim.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 07, 2015, 12:30:17 PM
235's are overkill for a car with 130HP at the wheels, max.
Probably, but they would look nice IMHO.
I had 235's on my GTI, I liked the way they looked even versus the stock 225's. I would have happily went with 245's if they fit the wheel, but the stock 18 inchers couldn't comfortably handle that much tire (and I didn't feel like spending more on wheels at the time).
On my current car I went a slightly different direct. Instead of going with a slightly wider tire I went with a wheel that has a slightly smaller offset (I think that is right, the wheels sit slightly further out) to improve the stance. Although to be honest, I again wouldn't mind 265's instead of the stock 255's, even if it was just for looks.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 07, 2015, 12:30:17 PM
235's are overkill for a car with 130HP at the wheels, max.
Its more about lateral grip and wear time than straight line grip. 205 summer tires will prob grip a little better than 235 all seasons, but they cost more, wear faster and need a second set of wheels/tires for the winter. Realistically 225s will prob work fine. Just want that little extra.
This thread is living up to expectations.
:clap: :wtf: :hammerhead: :muffin: :golfclap: :dance: :rastaman: :lol: :nutty: :rockon:
:popcorn:
"stock suspension is actually tuned pretty nicely" = "probably getting coilvers" :wtf:
It is but its too high. Hence keeping close to stock rates
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 07, 2015, 04:08:47 PM
It is but its too high. Hence keeping close to stock rates
What if you have to drive over a speed bump? :lol:
Ricer diagonal.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 07, 2015, 05:56:55 AM
"Power To The Peaceful!"
"Coexist (made of all the religious symbols)"
:lol:
Nomeansno, The Melvins, "Adventure", Clifford the Big Red Dog (just like the Explorer), nothing political. ;)
Surf shop, surf company, surf shop, surf company, something else I think, Mooneyes, Puerto Rico surf sticker.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 07, 2015, 05:56:55 AM
"Power To The Peaceful!"
"Coexist (made of all the religious symbols)"
:lol:
You should get this one
(http://www.prosportstickers.com/product_images/u/coexist_superhero_bumper_sticker__56879.jpg)
I'm not really into any of those things, though.
I dont want to piss off the "peaceful" :lol:
Trouble in paradise already. Loading up the car with gym stuff, trunk wouldn't close. We got hit with a deep freeze down here and I guess the cold did something to the latch. Had to drive the Z in :rolleyes:
For some reason I wasn't speeding as much in the Z today as I usually do. I passed some people but it wasn't the 80 MPH dash it usually is. Z controls are so comically heavy though, it really makes no sense. Its not for the weak but the heft is not feedback so its unnecessary. Big thing I really noticed though was how much better the Z's stereo is. That sub makes a huge difference. I will need a headunit that has the ability to delay different channels though to get everything synced up.
Spray some WD40 on the latches and in your lock holes! That'll help prevent freezing.....
Wait did you just leave your trunk open all day?
I backed it up to a bush and put a tire iron on it. There was a guy in my lot who left the windows of his G35 coupe open for WEEKS.... nobody messed with it. I'm gonna take it to Honda tonight. They should fix it for free.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 08, 2015, 06:21:15 AM
Trouble in paradise already. Loading up the car with gym stuff, trunk wouldn't close. We got hit with a deep freeze down here and I guess the cold did something to the latch. Had to drive the Z in :rolleyes:
For some reason I wasn't speeding as much in the Z today as I usually do. I passed some people but it wasn't the 80 MPH dash it usually is. Z controls are so comically heavy though, it really makes no sense. Its not for the weak but the heft is not feedback so its unnecessary. Big thing I really noticed though was how much better the Z's stereo is. That sub makes a huge difference. I will need a headunit that has the ability to delay different channels though to get everything synced up.
Did you slam it a few times? Sometimes that works.
I've never heard of or seen a latch or lock freezing up such that it won't close due to cold temps. I've had them freeze shut and not open due to moisture inside the lock turning to ice and binding up, but once you break it free, they'll latch closed again.
Quote from: MX793 on January 08, 2015, 03:22:26 PM
I've never heard of or seen a latch or lock freezing up such that it won't close due to cold temps. I've had them freeze shut and not open due to moisture inside the lock turning to ice and binding up, but once you break it free, they'll latch closed again.
I've had it happen...but I live in Canada, so......
Quote from: SVT666 on January 08, 2015, 04:36:34 PM
I've had it happen...but I live in Canada, so......
Winters here are as cold or colder, on average, than they are Pacific NW.
I've accidentally knocked the latch closed while the trunk was open, meaning it wouldn't latch. Just had to turn the key again or hit the trunk button and it would work.
Quote from: Rupert on January 07, 2015, 07:55:37 PM
Ricer diagonal.
Hey! Some people need to do that in their stock cars.
I think the cable in the release snapped. Anyways its at the dealership. We will see what happens
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 08, 2015, 06:51:14 PM
I think the cable in the release snapped. Anyways its at the dealership. We will see what happens
The latch failed on my mom's Accord, so I can't say I'm terribly surprised.
:RECORD SCRATCH: HONDAS BREAK? :mask:
What are you going to ask for the Z when you sell it?
Quote from: Rupert on January 08, 2015, 07:21:06 PM
What are you going to ask for the Z when you sell it?
Welcome, noob. This question has already been answered. Learn to use the search button.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 08, 2015, 07:26:55 PM
Welcome, noob. This question has already been answered. Learn to use the search button.
I probably asked it. Don't care, search is shit last time I checked. It'll take him 8 seconds and he'll get to advertise here a little in a non-advertisey way.
Quote from: Rupert on January 08, 2015, 07:21:06 PM
What are you going to ask for the Z when you sell it?
I will ask for 8 but Im hoping to get like 7
That's not too bad. I think they're a bit spendier around here.
They are not very common down here for less than 10K, at least when I was looking. Mine has miles and a little interior wear and tear but its so mechanically solid. Would be a really fun project car and can be a decent daily driver for someone not bothered by the noise/costs.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 08, 2015, 07:13:17 PM
:RECORD SCRATCH: HONDAS BREAK? :mask:
They did admit to programme problems with their problem reporting applications.
Hondas have always had little niggles. All of my Accords had main relay issues that kept the car from starting with a hot interior. Easy fix though. Everyone knows about the V6 transmissions from the late 90s. But even still, you see plenty of 10-20 year old "problem Hondas" on the road running fine. So they aren't anything that will sideline the cars.
Quote from: MX793 on January 08, 2015, 04:57:15 PM
Winters here are as cold or colder, on average, than they are Pacific NW.
They aren't colder than Edmonton. That's where I loved for 5 years. Then I lived in Calgary for another 5.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 09, 2015, 06:19:24 AM
They are not very common down here for less than 10K, at least when I was looking. Mine has miles and a little interior wear and tear but its so mechanically solid. Would be a really fun project car and can be a decent daily driver for someone not bothered by the noise/costs.
Maybe I should drive one and then buy from the east. Always wanted to drive across the country.
Quote from: Rupert on January 09, 2015, 05:19:49 PM
Maybe I should drive one and then buy from the east. Always wanted to drive across the country.
350Zs are surprisingly comfortable and agreeable to drive in. Wouldn't be a bad car for a cross country trip.
The 370Z has steadily moved up my list in the past year.
Quote from: hotrodalex on January 10, 2015, 10:39:52 AM
The 370Z has steadily moved up my list in the past year.
From a purely statistical standpoint, the 370z is possibly the best performance option besides the miata. It offers a lot of performance for the money in a pretty decent package.
I think the HR 350 is the better value used though. Unless you really want the nicer interior. From a pure straight line perspective on the street I was not impressed. You need to hit triple digit speeds to really feel the difference
350 hasnt aged well IMO.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 10, 2015, 04:54:33 PM
I think the HR 350 is the better value used though. Unless you really want the nicer interior. From a pure straight line perspective on the street I was not impressed. You need to hit triple digit speeds to really feel the difference
I should have clarified my statement, I was referring to a new car purchase.
Once you go used you open up a lot of options and the Z may fall back from 2nd place(behind the miata, new). Though oddly I still think even used the miata certainly holds it's #1 spot from a performance to cost standpoint.
Quote from: hotrodalex on January 10, 2015, 11:00:53 PM
350 hasnt aged well IMO.
Certainly not as well as past Z designs, but I think it still holds up and is still presentable.
I think the 370z refined the shape a bit and will hold up better, also the interior in the 370 is a lot better from a design standpoint(IMO).
Quote from: hotrodalex on January 10, 2015, 10:39:52 AM
The 370Z has steadily moved up my list in the past year.
It's just an uglier version of the 350Z.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 11, 2015, 11:11:27 AM
Certainly not as well as past Z designs, but I think it still holds up and is still presentable.
I think the 370z refined the shape a bit and will hold up better, also the interior in the 370 is a lot better from a design standpoint(IMO).
I disagree. I think it's aged very well and looks as crisp and modern as it did when it came out. The other Z designs, bar some of the very old ones, look dated and dumpy in comparison (for the most part).
Quote from: hotrodalex on January 10, 2015, 11:00:53 PM
350 hasnt aged well IMO.
The hardtop looks 50x better than the drop top version IMO.
The tail end styling on the Z33 has looked awkward and off to me since it came out. It's not nearly as timeless as the Z32 or the original S30. The proper kamm-back on the Z34 is a vast improvement to the overall shape of the car. Like the V35 Infiniti G, the Z33 seemed kind of tall and narrow and very slab-sided. The Z34 still suffers a high beltline, but like the V36 Infiniti, is more shapely and less slab-sided.
The tail of the Z is my least favorite part of the exterior. Those hips though...
It is also very slab sided both in and out. I like its overall shape and proportions though.
I think the 350 has aged very well. I did a double take when I saw a clean purple Z yesterday.
The 370 is so overwrought and looks horrible.
Quote from: MX793 on January 11, 2015, 04:13:54 PM
The tail end styling on the Z33 has looked awkward and off to me since it came out. It's not nearly as timeless as the Z32 or the original S30. The proper kamm-back on the Z34 is a vast improvement to the overall shape of the car. Like the V35 Infiniti G, the Z33 seemed kind of tall and narrow and very slab-sided. The Z34 still suffers a high beltline, but like the V36 Infiniti, is more shapely and less slab-sided.
WTF did you just say? Everything that started with Z completely lost 90% of us.
No just you, chassis names are pretty straightforward
S30= original
Z32= early 90s 300ZX with the twin turbo engine
Z33= 350z
Z34= 370Z
Which original? 240Z, 280Z, 280ZX?
Quote from: Rupert on January 11, 2015, 10:51:59 PM
Which original? 240Z, 280Z, 280ZX?
The "Z" cars (240, 260, and 280) are all S30.
The 280ZX was the S130
The first 300ZX (the 80s model) was the Z31
The second 300ZX (the 90s model) was Z32
The 350Z was Z33
The 370Z was/is Z34
Quote from: MX793 on January 12, 2015, 04:27:12 AM
The "Z" cars (240, 260, and 280) are all S30.
The 280ZX was the S130
The first 300ZX (the 80s model) was the Z31
The second 300ZX (the 90s model) was Z32
The 350Z was Z33
The 370Z was/is Z34
No, not just me. I would say there are only BMW, Porsche, and Mustang chassis codes that most car enthusiasts know. Hardly anybody knows Nissan Z car chassis codes. Just call them by their model names. Much easier.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 12, 2015, 12:13:53 PM
No, not just me. I would say there are only BMW, Porsche, and Mustang chassis codes that most car enthusiasts know. Hardly anybody knows Nissan Z car chassis codes. Just call them by their model names. Much easier.
Actually a lot seem to know Nissan's Z, 240sx and skyline codes. At least the people I tend to run into. There seems to be more knowledge of those than some of the honda/toyota or even subie stuff.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 12, 2015, 12:13:53 PM
No, not just me. I would say there are only BMW, Porsche, and Mustang chassis codes that most car enthusiasts know. Hardly anybody knows Nissan Z car chassis codes. Just call them by their model names. Much easier.
no
Just cause you don't know doesn't mean e everyone else doesn't either. It is a little geeky but nothing a quick Google search w won't Fox and certainly nothing with getting embarrassed or bent out of shape over.
This is the only Z34 I know of.
(http://3.photos.ebizautos.com/used-1992-chevrolet-lumina-z34coupe-7409-4242047-7-640.jpg)
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 11, 2015, 11:11:27 AM
I think the 370z refined the shape a bit and will hold up better, also the interior in the 370 is a lot better from a design standpoint(IMO).
+1
Quote from: Raza on January 11, 2015, 01:24:28 PM
It's just an uglier version of the 350Z.
-1. Much sleeker and taught, versus slab sided bathtub.
Quote from: Raza on January 11, 2015, 01:25:27 PM
I disagree. I think it's aged very well and looks as crisp and modern as it did when it came out. The other Z designs, bar some of the very old ones, look dated and dumpy in comparison (for the most part).
-1
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 11, 2015, 01:58:13 PM
The hardtop looks 50x better than the drop top version IMO.
+1
Quote from: MX793 on January 11, 2015, 04:13:54 PM
The tail end styling on the Z33 has looked awkward and off to me since it came out. It's not nearly as timeless as the Z32 or the original S30. The proper kamm-back on the Z34 is a vast improvement to the overall shape of the car. Like the V35 Infiniti G, the Z33 seemed kind of tall and narrow and very slab-sided. The Z34 still suffers a high beltline, but like the V36 Infiniti, is more shapely and less slab-sided.
+2
Quote from: thecarnut on January 11, 2015, 07:45:24 PM
The 370 is so overwrought and looks horrible.
-1
Quote from: SVT666 on January 11, 2015, 08:50:53 PM
WTF did you just say? Everything that started with Z completely lost 90% of us.
Someone didn't get a chassis code dictionary for Christmas.
The 370 is nice I think it was just a bit underwhelming as a successor to the 350.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 12, 2015, 06:20:50 PM
The 370 is nice I think it was just a bit underwhelming as a successor to the 350.
True, the marginal improvement wasn't huge. But as an overall package I dig it.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 12, 2015, 06:20:50 PM
The 370 is nice I think it was just a bit underwhelming as a successor to the 350.
Speaking to the 350's excellence
370Z did move the game on quite a bit though. Shorter wheelbase, lower weight, 12 sec quarter mile
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 12, 2015, 04:27:48 PM
This is the only Z34 I know of.
(http://3.photos.ebizautos.com/used-1992-chevrolet-lumina-z34coupe-7409-4242047-7-640.jpg)
(http://cdn.head-fi.org/1/17/1714e159_bow_down.gif)
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 12, 2015, 04:27:48 PM
This is the only Z34 I know of.
(http://3.photos.ebizautos.com/used-1992-chevrolet-lumina-z34coupe-7409-4242047-7-640.jpg)
And the only one worth remembering.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 12, 2015, 04:23:53 PM
no
Just cause you don't know doesn't mean e everyone else doesn't either. It is a little geeky but nothing a quick Google search w won't Fox and certainly nothing with getting embarrassed or bent out of shape over.
I'm not embarrassed to not know the chassis codes for a Nissan. :rolleyes: It's just easier for everyone if you call it 240Z, 350Z, 300ZX, or 370Z. EVERYONE knows what those are.
But the other way is faster; it is one letter shorter.
Chassis codes in general are pretty annoying. I think I remember getting on Craig's case for using Mustang jumbledegook a few years ago.
Quote from: Rupert on January 13, 2015, 01:19:36 AM
Chassis codes in general are pretty annoying. I think I remember getting on Craig's case for using Mustang jumbledegook a few years ago.
lol
Anyone who doesn't know chassis codes of popular cars isn't a real car guy in my opinion. Sorry Craig
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 13, 2015, 07:48:58 AM
lol
Anyone who doesn't know chassis codes of popular cars isn't a real car guy in my opinion. Sorry Craig
Depends on your preference. A lot of car guys don't give a hoot about Nissan.
I know a few of the mustang chassis codes, and not giving a hoot would be a generous way to describe my interest in them.
Frankly I think they are trash, along with camaro's. But I know what F-Body and SN95 means.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 13, 2015, 07:48:58 AM
lol
Anyone who doesn't know chassis codes of popular cars isn't a real car guy in my opinion. Sorry Craig
Why does it matter so much?
I only know BMW chassis codes relatively well.
And I know that most Mercedes chassis codes start with "W" for Wimmer.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 13, 2015, 10:33:23 AM
I only know BMW chassis codes relatively well.
And I know that most Mercedes chassis codes start with "W" for Wimmer.
:clap:
I believe that chassis codes are actually based on the VINs they'll be wearing
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 13, 2015, 02:38:00 PM
I believe that chassis codes are actually based on the VINs they'll be wearing
Not the case with Nissan Z cars.
BMWs don't have their chassis codes in their VINs
Quote from: MX793 on January 13, 2015, 03:47:40 PM
Not the case with Nissan Z cars.
mine does as did my maxima
Hondas do too. My car is an FA2
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 14, 2015, 07:22:03 AM
mine does as did my maxima
Hondas do too. My car is an FA2
I spot checked a couple of Zs on eBay. There was a Z33 with Z34 in the VIN and a Z34 that only had Z3 in the VIN.
Hondas have the chassis code in the VIN
First tank was ~29 MPG. Nice improvement from 18-20 MPG premium but a little far off from the 32-33 MPG I'm seeing on Fuelly. Might be shit winter blend but in the summer I use A/C so in the Z my mileage doesn't change. We'll see.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 17, 2015, 10:36:19 AM
First tank was ~29 MPG. Nice improvement from 18-20 MPG premium but a little far off from the 32-33 MPG I'm seeing on Fuelly. Might be shit winter blend but in the summer I use A/C so in the Z my mileage doesn't change. We'll see.
If it makes you feel any better, 29 MPG is Accent territory.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 17, 2015, 10:36:19 AM
First tank was ~29 MPG. Nice improvement from 18-20 MPG premium but a little far off from the 32-33 MPG I'm seeing on Fuelly. Might be shit winter blend but in the summer I use A/C so in the Z my mileage doesn't change. We'll see.
Do you run your defrost in the winter (I find I run my a fair bit in the fall to keep condensation off the windscreen)?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 13, 2015, 07:48:58 AM
lol
Anyone who doesn't know chassis codes of popular cars isn't a real car guy in my opinion. Sorry Craig
:rolleyes: You're so full of shit. You know chassis codes, but you don't actually know anything about cars, soooo.......
Quote from: MX793 on January 17, 2015, 11:35:31 AM
Do you run your defrost in the winter (I find I run my a fair bit in the fall to keep condensation off the windscreen)?
Not really. I generally run it with unconditioned heat and the A/C off in the winter.
Man this thing's a lil go kart. A little low on full on mechanical grip and a little too roly poly, but within its grip threshold it's got great response and feedback.
Cheap stereo and headlight are bothering me. I will have to see what $$$$ is like after this house. Prob wont be able to get any of that done until my bday in the fall or so.
Did he rice it out yet?
Don't you too have the same tuner?
Title situation is finally sorted out. What a mess. It was one of like 4 cars some lady traded that week so there was a hangup. I've been driving the Z for the past two weeks. Looking forward to (relatively) low road noise, 30 MPG regular and NPR again. I'm falling into old habits again.
I've never heard anyone say they can't wait to stop driving their 300hp sports car and start driving their econobox.
Quote from: SVT666 on February 09, 2015, 02:24:51 PM
I've never heard anyone say they can't wait to stop driving their 300hp sports car and start driving their econobox.
Head over to TOV, it's probably a prevalent thought over there.
350Z isn't very jovial at lower speeds
Quote from: SVT666 on February 09, 2015, 02:24:51 PM
I've never heard anyone say they can't wait to stop driving their 300hp sports car and start driving their econobox.
Only when it's 4 inches of snow on the ground! :lol:
Quote from: SVT666 on February 09, 2015, 02:24:51 PM
I've never heard anyone say they can't wait to stop driving their 300hp sports car and start driving their econobox.
How far is ur commute? I drive about 80 miles a day. All that theoretical purist driving engagement internet fodder takes a back seat to shit like road noise and a punishing ride. Z is compromised by its platform, I think. I probably wouldn't sell it if it weren't so punishing to commute in.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 13, 2015, 06:29:53 AM
How far is ur commute? I drive about 80 miles a day. All that theoretical purist driving engagement internet fodder takes a back seat to shit like road noise and a punishing ride. Z is compromised by its platform, I think. I probably wouldn't sell it if it weren't so punishing to commute in.
I can relate to commuting to work in a less than docile sports car. Sitting in stop and go traffic with my '67 Sunbeam Tiger watching the temperature gauge slowiy creeping towards the boiling point was never a very comfortable feeling.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 13, 2015, 06:29:53 AM
How far is ur commute? I drive about 80 miles a day. All that theoretical purist driving engagement internet fodder takes a back seat to shit like road noise and a punishing ride. Z is compromised by its platform, I think. I probably wouldn't sell it if it weren't so punishing to commute in.
That is a bit of a commute. I don't have any problems DDing the S2k, but my commute is generally less than 15 minutes. It definitely gets tiring on longer road trips, especially on boring highways and when the weather isn't nice.
Yea my commute was about 15 mins in Manhattan. I would ride into work in the dead of winter on my motorcycle if it was sunny and dry out.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 13, 2015, 06:29:53 AM
How far is ur commute? I drive about 80 miles a day. All that theoretical purist driving engagement internet fodder takes a back seat to shit like road noise and a punishing ride. Z is compromised by its platform, I think. I probably wouldn't sell it if it weren't so punishing to commute in.
For one day a week, my commute is roughly 60 miles round trip, and the other 4 days a week it's down a flight of stairs. But for 3 years I DD'd a lowered and modified Mustang GT year round in Edmonton and Calgary. The only thing I hated about it was the Ford Racing clutch was heavy as shit and I had a bummed left knee (since fixed) that made the drive in heavy traffic almost unbearable. If the clutch had been lighter, it probably would have been fine.
Why'd you get rid of the Mustang, and why haven't you done the same mods to the G?
Even w/o mods or w/e the Civic is just so much easier to drive. Forget the road noise or rough ride.... just the fact that the Civic's steering/clutch/shifter take 1/4 the effort to use, while providing the same or maybe even more feedback than those in the Z, is worth the tradeoff in potential. Perhaps something like a G sedan or Bimmer 3 would have combined the best of the two, but I have the bike and am enjoying my fuel bill having been halved. Even if I lower + mod the Civic it will still be much more comfy and DD friendly than the Z bone stock.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 16, 2015, 10:51:31 AM
Why'd you get rid of the Mustang, and why haven't you done the same mods to the G?
Even w/o mods or w/e the Civic is just so much easier to drive. Forget the road noise or rough ride.... just the fact that the Civic's steering/clutch/shifter take 1/4 the effort to use, while providing the same or maybe even more feedback than those in the Z, is worth the tradeoff in potential. Perhaps something like a G sedan or Bimmer 3 would have combined the best of the two, but I have the bike and am enjoying my fuel bill having been halved. Even if I lower + mod the Civic it will still be much more comfy and DD friendly than the Z bone stock.
I sold the Mustang because we had a kid. Now we have two kids and the G is a sporty family car. Not a sports/GT toy. Besides the G is pretty good already, not like that old Mustang I had that was a piece of shit in stock form. If the G was strictly my car and not driven by my wife at all, then that thing would get exhaust and some IPL springs and dampers.
Depending on what we do with the Rabbit I might throw some springs/dampers/wheels/tires on it. Suspension is soggy and the sidewalls are so weak her front tires always look deflated. Steering is slow as shit too. Prob not worth the effort vs just getting something fun to drive.
If you keep it I would definitely consider upgrading the suspension, although I guess that would depend on your wife's taste. The Rabbit/Golf is a very good platform, but the stock suspension is designed for comfort.
Nicer wheels/tires wouldn't hurt, but IMHO the suspension is the first thing I would tackle.
It's a slippery slope. Suspension will def warrant new wheels/tires. And even with that the transmission still sucks and the steering is slow as shit. The MKV GTI I drove felt worlds apart. Much more fun and buttoned down.
Would rather just put her in a new Mazda3 2.5 hatch or that GSW with the new 1.8T
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 19, 2015, 01:38:46 PM
It's a slippery slope. Suspension will def warrant new wheels/tires. And even with that the transmission still sucks and the steering is slow as shit. The MKV GTI I drove felt worlds apart. Much more fun and buttoned down.
Would rather just put her in a new Mazda3 2.5 hatch or that GSW with the new 1.8T
What's a GSW?
Golf Sportwagen. Runs on regular too, impressive. I do hate working on wifey's car though. Fucking Torq screws
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 19, 2015, 02:03:03 PM
Golf Sportwagen. Runs on regular too, impressive. I do hate working on wifey's car though. Fucking Torq screws
Ah, gotcha. Is that thing replacing the JSW?
Yea but it pretty much is the JSW. The current JSW is much closer to the Golf than the Jetta as far as looks, interior etc. Nice little ride and we will be able to haul shit and people.
Ha, need a new A/C compressor and it has no warranty. Fun fun fun
Shoulda got a Subaru. Heavy duty AC compressor to keep up with heavy set lesbo titty sweat
Quote from: 68_427 on March 11, 2015, 05:18:07 AM
Shoulda got a Subaru. Heavy duty AC compressor to keep up with heavy set lesbo titty sweat
:lol:
Quote from: 68_427 on March 11, 2015, 05:18:07 AM
Shoulda got a Subaru. Heavy duty AC compressor to keep up with heavy set lesbo titty sweat
:lol:
Jumping back and forth between the Z and Civic can be disorienting. Damn near put the Civic in a ditch today. Z feels like the center of mass is in my lap. Civic feels like the center of mass is somewhere ahead of the hood. All will be rite when I redo the suspension/wheels next year.
thought civic was going to tame you?? :lol:
Quote from: SVT666 on January 02, 2015, 09:43:40 AM
Who wants bet Sporty is bored with this car in less then 3 months and wants something sportier, or he will give it stiffer suspension and then proclaim it too harsh for commuting?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 13, 2015, 07:54:25 AM
Jumping back and forth between the Z and Civic can be disorienting. Damn near put the Civic in a ditch today. Z feels like the center of mass is in my lap. Civic feels like the center of mass is somewhere ahead of the hood. All will be rite when I redo the suspension/wheels next year.
"Ya, that civic was my daily driver....but it didn't really handle well on the street. So I slammed it down, put some 1400lb springs in it and some new shocks. It handles great but doesn't feel very nice on the commute. So it's my track car now."
"I'm looking to buy another civic for a daily driver."
SVT is still salty over some old irrelevant spat. Like I said
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 02, 2015, 11:03:40 AM
Thats the beauty of a versatile platform. If I want sportier I can make it sportier. If the suspension I get is too stiff I can take it off and sell it. Finding the right setup is the fun part and theres more than enough info out there to not have to iterate. People keep saying "you should have got the Si, the suspension on the Si is better"... I would have changed it too.
Suspension mods were a foregone conclusion.
There are plenty of suspension options for the Civic that go lower and aren't anywhere near as harsh as the Z. Civic can run higher profile 17s as well. I dont get why this purchase made him so angry but I do find it entertaining.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 13, 2015, 02:00:55 PM
"Ya, that civic was my daily driver....but it didn't really handle well on the street. So I slammed it down, put some 1400lb springs in it and some new shocks. It handles great but doesn't feel very nice on the commute. So it's my track car now."
"I'm looking to buy another civic for a daily driver."
Lol, I have NEVER run an aftermarket suspension that was too harsh for the street. The Z's suspension rides rougher than any aftermarket setup I've had, including my Maxima, which was about 3" lower than stock in NYC. This is not my first rodeo, it will be fine.
Adjustable FTW. Then you can track ur civic.
Quote from: hotrodalex on March 13, 2015, 02:09:49 PM
Adjustable FTW. Then you can track ur civic.
:nutty:
Z= better track car
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on March 13, 2015, 02:44:03 PM
:nutty:
Z= better track car
Thing is literally over 99% of my miles will be on the street. Plus with better brakes/tires/suspension the Civic will be able to hold its own. They can be decent track cars too
Fastest Spoon Civic Type R Turbo Unlimited Class Winner Global Time Attack - On Board Episode 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puFC_DPck-8#ws)
dat lag
How much money did they put into that? At least 100K easily, right? Plus the initial cost of the type R.
I would never slam my 140hp daily driver but that's just me.
Lol, doesn't go for an Si, but then compares his civic to a spoon track car. #JustSportyThings :lol:
There's nothing wrong with a civic with aftermarket parts. Idk why you guys are giving him shit for it when most of yous take the easy way out
Quote from: 2o6 on March 14, 2015, 02:14:40 PM
There's nothing wrong with a civic with aftermarket parts. Idk why you guys are giving him shit for it when most of yous take the easy way out
Nah, there's nothing wrong with slapping an aftermarket suspension on a base Civic; it just won't make the car any more livable as a daily. And without some further mods to the engine, it's not going to really affect the performance all that much, either. It's not like a Civic EX has too much engine for the chassis and suspension.
I think a nice set of rubber would give you 90% of the handling benefits with 10% of the ride-tradeoff.
Also, nothing he does to the Civic's suspension will change the center of mass, which is what he's complaining about. It's always going to feel like a nose-heavy compact, because it's a.......nose heavy compact.
Civic with aftermarket is still weaker than many stock cars. like..... a Nissan z? :lol:
Quote from: 2o6 on March 14, 2015, 02:14:40 PM
There's nothing wrong with a civic with aftermarket parts. Idk why you guys are giving him shit for it when most of yous take the easy way out
The "easy way out" (presumably buying performance in a factory car) is what people do when they get on with life. After about age 25 there's way more to life than having to do the diagonal ricer crawl over speed bumps in the company parking lot.
I think you guys as a whole are spewing bullshit. Most of you guys don't personalize your cars in any way, don't work on them, and talk shit on those who do.
Adding stiffer, lower springs on a Civic (which is a pretty good base in the first place) nor would it make the car undrivable
Rags car is probably nearly undrivable. My old focus was a ZTS with the SVT kit. I'm always driving my friends xB with really nice springs
You guys talk a lot of shit
The mental gymnastics to get to where he is is just funny, that's all.
The Z is too harsh for daily driving. A Civic Si is too much performance. So he bought a standard Civic, and is now going spend even more to get wheels and suspension to lower it. It'll now be harsher than an Si, more expensive, and slower.
And then comparing it to a custom Spoon Civic race car... all for a car that was originally bought because his current ride was too harsh :wtf:
I'm glad sporty is enjoying his car though, he just has to expect some ribbing on here is all.
Quote from: 2o6 on March 14, 2015, 03:42:50 PM
Rags car is probably nearly undrivable. My old focus was a ZTS with the SVT kit. I'm always driving my friends xB with really nice springs
Hey! :rage:
Aw who am I kidding, it's true. I can't even hear my own radio over my exhaust. Still, it's hilarious to pull up to partner's houses or at work with my sticker-laden, super loud car with a racing seat and harness and yellow wheels and see the funny looks I get from the partners and managers. :lol:
Quote from: MrH on March 14, 2015, 04:03:54 PM
The mental gymnastics to get to where he is is just funny, that's all.
Only mental gymnastics are from the peanut gallery. You purposely misinterpret things I say, and then claim I'm being silly when I explain myself. I wanted a cheap low maintenance daily driver that wont beat me up but is fun to drive. My main gripes with the Z were road noise, impracticality and consumable costs. Coilovers won't affect any of that, and in any case the coilovers I'm looking at aren't a ton stiffer than stock rates. Maybe 30-40% stiffer, with legit damping. Wheel spring rates will still be much lower than the Z and damping will be better. So the ribbing and questions don't make sense.
Spoon race car was just to show that modding the car isn't pointless. It's a good platform. I'm not going to run the 1600-2000lb springs and Motul reservoir shocks this thing has. But a better suspension will open it up :huh:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 14, 2015, 07:46:17 PM
Only mental gymnastics are from the peanut gallery. You purposely misinterpret things I say, and then claim I'm being silly when I explain myself. I wanted a cheap low maintenance daily driver that wont beat me up but is fun to drive. My main gripes with the Z were road noise, impracticality and consumable costs. Coilovers won't affect any of that, and in any case the coilovers I'm looking at aren't a ton stiffer than stock rates. Maybe 30-40% stiffer, with legit damping. Wheel spring rates will still be much lower than the Z and damping will be better. So the ribbing and questions don't make sense.
Spoon race car was just to show that modding the car isn't pointless. It's a good platform. I'm not going to run the 1600-2000lb springs and Motul reservoir shocks this thing has. But a better suspension will open it up :huh:
Eh, you do you man. I certainly don't have room to talk shit. Actually, so don't a lot of people here. H put coilovers and wheels/tires on his BRZ and ended up DD'ing an olde man Genesis. Plus, other people talking shit are probably jelly that their SO won't let them modify their cars.
I feel you on the impracticality. Having a two door/two seat car as an only/main car blows. Plus, having lower consumable costs is always nice. I would have gone for an Si, though, because they were actually good cars. That K20 is so nice, and isn't like the current Si's K24 where Honda went full retard and put the fucking header in the block. :facepalm:
Other than that, I'm excited to see where you take this thing.
What exactly is "legit" damping?
Quote from: thecarnut on March 14, 2015, 07:59:05 PM
Eh, you do you man. I certainly don't have room to talk shit. Actually, so don't a lot of people here. H put coilovers and wheels/tires on his BRZ and ended up DD'ing an olde man Genesis. Plus, other people talking shit are probably jelly that their SO won't let them modify their cars.
I feel you on the impracticality. Having a two door/two seat car as an only/main car blows. Plus, having lower consumable costs is always nice. I would have gone for an Si, though, because they were actually good cars. That K20 is so nice, and isn't like the current Si's K24 where Honda went full retard and put the fucking header in the block. :facepalm:
Other than that, I'm excited to see where you take this thing.
Yea its a damn shame what they did to the K. It doesnt seem like it hurt much though. People are getting 210-220WHP with bolt ons and tunes. Plus, easy turbo :evildude:
Every time I go to get gas I'm glad I didn't get the K20. It's definitely faster but I just don't like the power delivery. I have plans though :rastaman:
:popcorn:
As the person on here who has done the most to his car, I'd keep this one stock.
Quote from: MrH on March 14, 2015, 04:03:54 PM
The mental gymnastics to get to where he is is just funny, that's all.
The Z is too harsh for daily driving. A Civic Si is too much performance. So he bought a standard Civic, and is now going spend even more to get wheels and suspension to lower it. It'll now be harsher than an Si, more expensive, and slower.
The harshest ride I've ever experienced was a friend's 8th gen civic with Honda's Factory Performance suspension. Jesus that thing was a rough POS.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 14, 2015, 08:03:23 PM
What exactly is "legit" damping?
In summary, damping by a company that supplies OEMs or has racing cred (i.e. Tokico, KYB, Koni, Bilstein etc). Or to put it another way, NOT that Taiwanese "32 way adjustable" crosstalking crap. Has to be designed for stiffer and lower springs, but most legit performance dampers/coilovers are.
Quote from: SVT_Power on March 15, 2015, 02:49:36 AM
The harshest ride I've ever experienced was a friend's 8th gen civic with Honda's Factory Performance suspension. Jesus that thing was a rough POS.
HFP 8th gen setup is agreed to be too harsh by everybody on 8thcivic.com. It's something with the damping. Other shocks work great
Quote from: hotrodalex on March 14, 2015, 11:57:24 PM
:popcorn:
As the person on here who has done the most to his car, I'd keep this one stock.
Why?
Quote from: SVT_Power on March 15, 2015, 02:49:36 AM
The harshest ride I've ever experienced was a friend's 8th gen civic with Honda's Factory Performance suspension. Jesus that thing was a rough POS.
A buddy of mine has a 2005 Civic SiR and it's stiffer and rougher than the lowered Mustang I modified years ago.
Quote from: hotrodalex on March 14, 2015, 11:57:24 PM
:popcorn:
As the person on here who has done the most to his car, I'd keep this one stock.
As the person on here with the most unlivable DD, I wouldn't. :devil:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 15, 2015, 07:30:02 AM
Why?
It's a Civic, supposed to be a DD. I don't think springs and shocks are gonna change anything except possibly make it ride stiffer, which is silly.
Quote from: hotrodalex on March 14, 2015, 11:57:24 PM
:popcorn:
As the person on here who has done the most to his car, I'd keep this one stock.
I agree! Put that money into the Z or the bike!
As the person on here with a lifted Accent with a stiff ride that will soon be a lowered (again) Accent with a stiff ride, I say do what you want and keep the original parts in case you have back problems in the future.
Quote from: SVT666 on March 15, 2015, 09:00:13 AM
A buddy of mine has a 2005 Civic SiR and it's stiffer and rougher than the lowered Mustang I modified years ago.
7th gen Civics have shit suspension designs though, and in any case all spring/shock combos aren't the same :huh:
Quote from: hotrodalex on March 15, 2015, 09:30:34 AM
It's a Civic, supposed to be a DD. I don't think springs and shocks are gonna change anything except possibly make it ride stiffer, which is silly.
It will look better and handle better. And no offense but I think building an El Camino to do auto-X is a lot sillier. But that's the choice you made, and even though I wouldn't do it I respect that that's what you want. I really don't see what is so impossible to comprehend about wanting to make a daily driver more fun. We are not talking a full race setup or a ricey hellaflush setup. We are talking lowering it no more than an inch and a half and upgrading the shocks to match. Maybe a stronger RSB and definitely some better wheels and tires. No different from a sport package on something like a Bimmer 3, just not OEM :huh:
Quote from: SVT666 on March 15, 2015, 09:00:13 AM
A buddy of mine has a 2005 Civic SiR and it's stiffer and rougher than the lowered Mustang I modified years ago.
Que? The Si/SiR EP3 if anything is too soft
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 15, 2015, 11:48:55 AM
7th gen Civics have shit suspension designs though, and in any case all spring/shock combos aren't the same :huh:
It will look better and handle better. And no offense but I think building an El Camino to do auto-X is a lot sillier. But that's the choice you made, and even though I wouldn't do it I respect that that's what you want. I really don't see what is so impossible to comprehend about wanting to make a daily driver more fun. We are not talking a full race setup or a ricey hellaflush setup. We are talking lowering it no more than an inch and a half and upgrading the shocks to match. Maybe a stronger RSB and definitely some better wheels and tires. No different from a sport package on something like a Bimmer 3, just not OEM :huh:
I took a poor handling car and made it acceptable for modern standards. A Civic is already a comfortable, decently good handler. Personally, I think it fits the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" category.
I wish I had money laying around to build a street car or go crazy and build subie into offroader.
I just laugh that you deny that deep down rice fanaticism. :lol:
Quote from: SVT666 on March 15, 2015, 09:00:13 AM
A buddy of mine has a 2005 Civic SiR and it's stiffer and rougher than the lowered Mustang I modified years ago.
That doesn't count. That chassis is so floppy, you could put solid metal blocks in place of the springs, and it'd still feel soft. Everything else just flexs. It's got the torsional rigidity of warm butter :lol:
Quote from: MrH on March 15, 2015, 01:48:20 PM
That doesn't count. That chassis is so floppy, you could put solid metal blocks in place of the springs, and it'd still feel soft. Everything else just flexs. It's got the torsional rigidity of warm butter :lol:
Ha! I was going to say the exact same thing.
Quote from: 2o6 on March 15, 2015, 11:54:29 AM
Que? The Si/SiR EP3 if anything is too soft
His SiR made my SVT Focus feel like Cadillac in comparison.
Quote from: MrH on March 15, 2015, 01:48:20 PM
That doesn't count. That chassis is so floppy, you could put solid metal blocks in place of the springs, and it'd still feel soft. Everything else just flexs. It's got the torsional rigidity of warm butter :lol:
LOL. True, but the point is, I put Ford Racing springs on it and it rode like shit, but was still more comfortable than my buddy's SiR.
Speaking of undrivable, I got the Miata stuck on the entrance of the parking garage at work today. :mask: :lol:
I get where Sporty is coming from (I was just ribbing you). Once my wife gets the Mazda3,I want to put springs/dampers, exhaust, and wheels on the G. Wheels are tough though because stock wheels are nice already, but ours are getting dinged up from winter driving.
Quote from: hotrodalex on March 15, 2015, 12:27:33 PM
I took a poor handling car and made it acceptable for modern standards. A Civic is already a comfortable, decently good handler. Personally, I think it fits the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" category.
It has room to play. The chassis can handle more grip, and more grip requires a better suspension. Plus roads down here are not that bad... the Z's stiff suspension is not an issue here; it's the road noise from it that is annoying. The Civic is a Lexus by comparison. So I think tweaking it a little to fit my tastes will be fine. It won't ruin the car at all. U took a crap (no offense) platform and made it OK. Why can't I take an OK platform and make it great?
Quote from: SVT666 on March 15, 2015, 03:21:55 PM
I get where Sporty is coming from (I was just ribbing you). Once my wife gets the Mazda3,I want to put springs/dampers, exhaust, and wheels on the G. Wheels are tough though because stock wheels are nice already, but ours are getting dinged up from winter driving.
If you have good stock wheels I don't think they are worth replacing. Stock Si wheels are like 17x7.5... those with 225/40s run great on the Civic. If I were to keep + invest in the Z I would probably just switch to the updated wheels which are the same size as mine or the 19s from the old G35 coupe. The track wheels on Gs/Zs are Rays which are like the BBS of Japan. You are right to not bother with wheels...
Quote from: SVT666 on March 15, 2015, 03:07:57 PM
His SiR made my SVT Focus feel like Cadillac in comparison.
The soft suspension is why I like the EP3 so much
Quote from: hotrodalex on March 15, 2015, 12:27:33 PM
I took a poor handling car and made it acceptable for modern standards. A Civic is already a comfortable, decently good handler. Personally, I think it fits the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" category.
The civic is kind of soft, and stiffer springs would go a longer way to making the car feel sharper and more responsive
Idk why you guys are giving him shit or acting like modding a HONDA CIVIC, One of the most nodded cars on the planet, is such a new concept
Quote from: SVT666 on March 15, 2015, 03:21:55 PM
I get where Sporty is coming from (I was just ribbing you). Once my wife gets the Mazda3,I want to put springs/dampers, exhaust, and wheels on the G. Wheels are tough though because stock wheels are nice already, but ours are getting dinged up from winter driving.
The AWD G does not do well with suspension mods (well, no car does really). The G is particularly sensitive as Nissan's ATTESA depends heavily on expected inputs from what the car is doing.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 15, 2015, 05:47:41 PM
The AWD G does not do well with suspension mods (well, no car does really). The G is particularly sensitive as Nissan's ATTESA depends heavily on expected inputs from what the car is doing.
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 15, 2015, 03:32:06 PM
If you have good stock wheels I don't think they are worth replacing. Stock Si wheels are like 17x7.5... those with 225/40s run great on the Civic. If I were to keep + invest in the Z I would probably just switch to the updated wheels which are the same size as mine or the 19s from the old G35 coupe. The track wheels on Gs/Zs are Rays which are like the BBS of Japan. You are right to not bother with wheels...
Our stock wheels are chipped up from winter driving. I would like gunmetal grey wheels if I could find some that look good.
Quote from: 2o6 on March 15, 2015, 05:00:22 PM
The soft suspension is why I like the EP3 so much
The SiR has rock hard suspension. Feels like the wheels are bolted to the frame.
Quote from: SVT666 on March 15, 2015, 05:57:18 PM
You have no idea what you are talking about.
You're gonna want to do some research on how ATTESA works.
Quote from: 2o6 on March 15, 2015, 05:00:22 PM
The soft suspension is why I like the EP3 so much
The civic is kind of soft, and stiffer springs would go a longer way to making the car feel sharper and more responsive
Idk why you guys are giving him shit or acting like modding a HONDA CIVIC, One of the most nodded cars on the planet, is such a new concept
Well most modded Civics are garbage, so...
I think the money would be better spent on Z parts, bike parts, or maybe a track day. I'd kill to have a stock Civic as a DD so I could go further with my El Camino. I wouldn't mod the Civic because to me, the point of it is to be a car I just get in and drive with no hassle or thought put into it. If he wants to mod it, go ahead, I saying it's not what I would do.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 15, 2015, 06:10:19 PM
You're gonna want to do some research on how ATTESA works.
What about a Tesla?
Can't wait to absorb all the h8 when I slam the outback
I'd also put a rear wing on it just tk dress it up and help with low speed maneuvers. Nothing too crazy, just a small multi wing carbon fiber unit.
Quote from: 68_427 on March 15, 2015, 06:30:30 PM
Can't wait to absorb all the h8 when I slam the outback
Just don't complain you can't offroad it any more after and you're safe.
Quote from: 68_427 on March 15, 2015, 06:30:30 PM
Can't wait to absorb all the h8 when I slam the outback
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/640/962/d91.gif)
I actually raised my ride height by 1/2" today. Not a huge difference in looks, but might help with speed bumps and the horrible curbs in Utah.
Quote from: hotrodalex on March 15, 2015, 06:17:59 PM
Well most modded Civics are garbage, so...
That's just flat out wrong. Most modded Civics look bone stock.
Quote from: hotrodalex on March 15, 2015, 06:17:59 PMI think the money would be better spent on Z parts, bike parts, or maybe a track day. I'd kill to have a stock Civic as a DD so I could go further with my El Camino. I wouldn't mod the Civic because to me, the point of it is to be a car I just get in and drive with no hassle or thought put into it. If he wants to mod it, go ahead, I saying it's not what I would do.
Wat sense would it make to put money into the Z? I'm selling it. I'm selling the bike too, but I'm still putting money into it for maintenance (just bought new tires). I can afford to buy parts for the Civic AND do a track day or two on the bike. A suspension on the Civic wouldn't make it a hassle... for the tenth time, the suspension I'm looking at is pretty mild and has been regarded as the best balance between comfort and performance for coilovers.
Here's about as "extreme" as I'd be looking to go. You probably wouldn't even think this was lowered if you saw it on the street.
(http://www.tein.com/tech_info/img/ab142-fa5.jpg)
"That's just flat out wrong. Most modded Civics look bone stock"
Lol, you've got more denial than an alcoholic waiting outside for a bar to open at 10am on a Tuesday.
The only Civic that I think looked even half decent:
(http://images.allcarsincanada.com/nlarge/1999_honda_civic_sir_coupe_231899.jpg)
And it was stolen just five minutes later.
Quote from: 68_427 on March 15, 2015, 06:30:30 PM
Can't wait to absorb all the h8 when I slam the outback
:fogey: :facepalm:
Quote from: GoCougs on March 15, 2015, 06:10:19 PM
You're gonna want to do some research on how ATTESA works.
I researched it, and you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
Quote from: hotrodalex on March 15, 2015, 07:15:13 PM
I actually raised my ride height by 1/2" today. Not a huge difference in looks, but might help with speed bumps and the horrible curbs in Utah.
Fail.
Quote from: thecarnut on March 15, 2015, 08:22:29 PM
Fail.
I like my exhaust pipes to be round, not flattened.
Quote from: SVT666 on March 15, 2015, 06:00:51 PM
The SiR has rock hard suspension. Feels like the wheels are bolted to the frame.
Canadian SiR is the same as the US Si
I'm honestly struggling to understand where the ride quality concerns are coming from. That's probably the softest Civic Si ever.
Crappy rebound in the shocks can lead to harshness, from my experience.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 15, 2015, 07:16:26 PM
You probably wouldn't even think this was lowered if you saw it on the street.
(http://www.tein.com/tech_info/img/ab142-fa5.jpg)
Yes I would.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on March 15, 2015, 07:02:51 PM
Just don't complain you can't offroad it any more after and you're safe.
Challenge accepted
Quote from: SVT666 on March 15, 2015, 08:01:58 PM
I researched it, and you don't know what the hell you're talking about.
You need to do more research.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 16, 2015, 05:14:15 AM
You need to do more research.
Care to share? I don't see anything in the description of the system that would be screwed up by changing springs, sways, or dampers.
no issues here
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2435/3599532669_056c172e5b_b.jpg)
(http://www.harlow-jap-autos.co.uk/J779GTR003.JPG)
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/e5/7f/ca/e57fca69fc6a442576f2ac9628fa638d.jpg)
(http://static.flickr.com/119/313811373_1cca26deb6_b.jpg)
You need to do more research.
Quote from: MX793 on March 16, 2015, 05:21:48 AM
Care to share? I don't see anything in the description of the system that would be screwed up by changing springs, sways, or dampers.
Never mind the fact that folks have been heavily modifying ATTESSA equipped cars for the last 26 years. Cougs is just blowing smoke
Quote from: hotrodalex on March 15, 2015, 11:27:59 PM
Crappy rebound in the shocks can lead to harshness, from my experience.
Yea, shock design is way more important than spring rates. You can have the perfect spring rate/length and still have shit ride.
I really have no opinion on mods one way or the other, but I just wanted to say I thoroughly enjoyed the last two pages of this thread. :lol:
pS. Off to go do more research.
Quote from: hotrodalex on March 15, 2015, 06:17:59 PM
Well most modded Civics are garbage, so...
I think the money would be better spent on Z parts, bike parts, or maybe a track day. I'd kill to have a stock Civic as a DD so I could go further with my El Camino. I wouldn't mod the Civic because to me, the point of it is to be a car I just get in and drive with no hassle or thought put into it. If he wants to mod it, go ahead, I saying it's not what I would do.
110% all of this.
Quote from: MX793 on March 16, 2015, 05:21:48 AM
Care to share? I don't see anything in the description of the system that would be screwed up by changing springs, sways, or dampers.
Really? It should be noted there are mechanical versions of ATTESA - I am only referring to the electronic kind in new(er) cars, like that in the G37X - ATTESA-ETS. Here's how it works:
ECU monitors inputs from what the car is doing; vehicle speed, wheel speed, car body motion (via 3-axis accelerometer), etc.
ECU monitors inputs from what the driver wants the car to do; steering angle, throttle position, etc.
ECU runs equation(s) on said inputs;
ECU uses equation(s) result(s) to modulate pressure in high bandwidth pump to pressure clutches in the t-case to split torque (more pressure = more torque), and modulate ABS and throttle if need be.
Repeat many times per second.
ATTESA-ETS does lots of things. It's for traction control. It's for stability control. It's for launching. It's for performance driving. Most importantly (ITT) it's for inducing a wee bit of over steer. This is accomplished; ESPECIALLY the latter; by tuning the equation(s) through trial and error testing (based on a certain vehicle speed, and a certain steering angle, etc., the equation expects the vehicle to react a certain way). By mucking with suspension one affects how the vehicle reacts given the same set of inputs, ergo, ATTESA-ETS does not perform as designed.
In short, if one modifies the suspension on a G37X one is gonna decrease ATTESA-ETS performance.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 16, 2015, 06:42:19 AM
Never mind the fact that folks have been heavily modifying ATTESSA equipped cars for the last 26 years. Cougs is just blowing smoke
Aftermarket ATTESA-ETS controllers and reprogramming has been a thing for a long time (= many recognize that if you muck with a ATTESA-ETS-equipped vehicle you're gonna have to muck with ATTESA-ETS tuning).
As an enthusiast how can you not know this?
You guys been done research'd.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 17, 2015, 07:01:29 PM
Really? It should be noted there are mechanical versions of ATTESA - I am only referring to the electronic kind in new(er) cars, like that in the G37X - ATTESA-ETS. Here's how it works:
ECU monitors inputs from what the car is doing; vehicle speed, wheel speed, car body motion (via 3-axis accelerometer), etc.
ECU monitors inputs from what the driver wants the car to do; steering angle, throttle position, etc.
ECU runs equation(s) on said inputs;
ECU uses equation(s) result(s) to modulate pressure in high bandwidth pump to pressure clutches in the t-case to split torque (more pressure = more torque), and modulate ABS and throttle if need be.
Repeat many times per second.
ATTESA-ETS does lots of things. It's for traction control. It's for stability control. It's for launching. It's for performance driving. Most importantly (ITT) it's for inducing a wee bit of over steer. This is accomplished; ESPECIALLY the latter; by tuning the equation(s) through trial and error testing (based on a certain vehicle speed, and a certain steering angle, etc., the equation expects the vehicle to react a certain way). By mucking with suspension one affects how the vehicle reacts given the same set of inputs, ergo, ATTESA-ETS does not perform as designed.
In short, if one modifies the suspension on a G37X one is gonna decrease ATTESA-ETS performance.
The ATTESA-ETS system in the G has been around since the R32 GT-R in the late 80s. It ain't new.
Much of it comes down to monitoring relative wheel speeds via the wheel speed sensors used for the ABS system. This would be unaffected by changes to spring or damper rates.
There is an accelerometer on board, but being a 3-axis, it doesn't monitor pitch and roll, only lateral, longitudinal, and vertical accelerations. It uses this information to determine how to shuffle power front-to-back (in conjunction with wheel speed sensors determining if wheels are slipping). The system is set up to be more rear-biased the harder the car is being pushed. Again, I don't see stiffer suspension having much affect here. No more so than changing tire compounds, which will alter the limits of the car's handling and how it responds to different inputs.
If the system is so sensitive, simply changing to a stickier, or less sticky (i.e. snow), tire from what comes from the factory would compromise it.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 17, 2015, 07:02:03 PM
Aftermarket ATTESA-ETS controllers and reprogramming has been a thing for a long time (= many recognize that if you muck with a ATTESA-ETS-equipped vehicle you're gonna have to muck with ATTESA-ETS tuning).
As an enthusiast how can you not know this?
Wat does this have to do with changing shocks/springs
Quote from: MX793 on March 17, 2015, 07:47:19 PM
The ATTESA-ETS system in the G has been around since the R32 GT-R in the late 80s. It ain't new.
Much of it comes down to monitoring relative wheel speeds via the wheel speed sensors used for the ABS system. This would be unaffected by changes to spring or damper rates.
There is an accelerometer on board, but being a 3-axis, it doesn't monitor pitch and roll, only lateral, longitudinal, and vertical accelerations. It uses this information to determine how to shuffle power front-to-back (in conjunction with wheel speed sensors determining if wheels are slipping). The system is set up to be more rear-biased the harder the car is being pushed. Again, I don't see stiffer suspension having much affect here. No more so than changing tire compounds, which will alter the limits of the car's handling and how it responds to different inputs.
If the system is so sensitive, simply changing to a stickier, or less sticky (i.e. snow), tire from what comes from the factory would compromise it.
The accelerometer is up under the console; acceleration in X/Y/Z some ~2' off the ground near the center of the car (CG I'm guess) = pitch/yaw/roll = predictor/determinant of what the car will shortly be and/or have to be doing. When mucking with suspension one mucks with the pitch/yaw/roll rate.
Wheel slip is only one of many factors. For example, to induce over steer stuff has to start happening before there is wheel slip.
Sure the system has to have some leeway to account for variation due to tire wear, replacement tires, etc., but it has to be sensitive enough (which is to say fairly) to induce a known bit of over steer at speed.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 17, 2015, 08:09:47 PM
Wat does this have to do with changing shocks/springs
Why aren't you reading my other posts?
Quote from: GoCougs on March 17, 2015, 08:42:08 PM
The accelerometer is up under the console; acceleration in X/Y/Z some ~2' off the ground near the center of the car (CG I'm guess) = pitch/yaw/roll = predictor/determinant of what the car will shortly be and/or have to be doing. When mucking with suspension one mucks with the pitch/yaw/roll rate.
Wheel slip is only one of many factors. For example, to induce over steer stuff has to start happening before there is wheel slip.
Sure the system has to have some leeway to account for variation due to tire wear, replacement tires, etc., but it has to be sensitive enough (which is to say fairly) to induce a known bit of over steer at speed.
If the accelerometer is at the CG, it's not going to see any pitch/yaw/roll. Away from the CG it may pick these up as part of the vert/lat/long accelerations, but at or very near the CG, these would be very nearly cancelled out or otherwise invisible to a 3-axis G-meter.
Cougs is getting schooled here.
Quote from: MX793 on March 17, 2015, 08:58:48 PM
If the accelerometer is at the CG, it's not going to see any pitch/yaw/roll. Away from the CG it may pick these up as part of the vert/lat/long accelerations, but at or very near the CG, these would be very nearly cancelled out or otherwise invisible to a 3-axis G-meter.
Sure it will; CG is not (or rather, will very rarely be) the center of rotation and usually far from it - too many other forces at play, esp. tire grip and suspension compliance. Just think of a vehicle like the 911 when in over steer - CG is way in the back yet center of rotation is in the front (if center of ration was in back the car wouldn't over steer ;)). Wash/rinse/repeat for all sorts of other vehicle behavior such as leaning in a turn, rearward lean on acceleration, or forward lean on braking - axis of rotation is nowhere near CG.
Guys, ATESLA isn't important. Get RWD like a real enthusiast, slam that sucka, do doriftos.
Quote from: SVT666 on March 17, 2015, 09:13:50 PM
Cougs is getting schooled here.
All the research in the world couldnt save him
Quote from: GoCougs on March 17, 2015, 09:41:56 PM
Sure it will; CG is not (or rather, will very rarely be) the center of rotation and usually far from it - too many other forces at play, esp. tire grip and suspension compliance. Just think of a vehicle like the 911 when in over steer - CG is way in the back yet center of rotation is in the front (if center of ration was in back the car wouldn't over steer ;)). Wash/rinse/repeat for all sorts of other vehicle behavior such as leaning in a turn, rearward lean on acceleration, or forward lean on braking - axis of rotation is nowhere near CG.
Setting yaw aside, body pitch and roll (the main axes of "body motion) are largely around the CG. Even if not, or if the accelerometer were located a significant distance from the CG, these motions would be detected as centripetal accelerations composed of some combination of X, Y, and Z components only when the body is pitching and rolling. And once the body had taken a set following weight transfer, these would reduce to zero. This brings ATTESA's sample rate into the mix. The system only has a 10Hz sample rate. How long does it take for weight transfer to complete in a sporty car like the G when you hit the brakes or enter a turn? I'm guessing somewhere on the order of .1-.2 seconds, meaning that the sensor's sample rate is simply too slow to be used to even attempt to account for body motion when shuffling power front to rear. You would need sample rates of hundreds of Hz to adequately monitor pitch and roll motions. For comparison, Magnaride has a sample rate of around 1000 Hz.
LOLS
I also believe Cougs is mistakenly thinking the GT-R's ATTESA system is the same system used in the G, and it isn't.
Unlike the previous ATTESA systems which relied heavily on mechanical feedback, the system in the GT-R uses electronic sensors and hydraulically actuated clutches. It also has a yaw-rate feedback control system, effectively managing slip angle. Front-to-rear torque split can go from 2:98 during a standing start to a maximum of 50:50
ATTESA system found in the G37:
To control the ATTESA E-TS system, there is a 16-bit computer that monitors the cars movements 10 times per second to sense traction loss by measuring the speed of each wheel via the ABS sensors. Also a three-axis G-Sensor mounted underneath the center console feeds lateral and longitudinal inputs into a computer, which controls both the ATTESA-ETS 4WD system and the ABS system.
If there is less pitch and roll because of stiffer springs and better dampers, then the AWD system will actually send less power to the front wheels, but I highly doubt it will make much if any difference to the performance of the AWD system since the system relies mostly on mechanical feedback from the wheels.
Again they have beeen fucking with ATTESSA cars since 89, wat is Cougs on about m8u
Quote from: MX793 on March 18, 2015, 05:30:31 AM
Setting yaw aside, body pitch and roll (the main axes of "body motion) are largely around the CG. Even if not, or if the accelerometer were located a significant distance from the CG, these motions would be detected as centripetal accelerations composed of some combination of X, Y, and Z components only when the body is pitching and rolling. And once the body had taken a set following weight transfer, these would reduce to zero. This brings ATTESA's sample rate into the mix. The system only has a 10Hz sample rate. How long does it take for weight transfer to complete in a sporty car like the G when you hit the brakes or enter a turn? I'm guessing somewhere on the order of .1-.2 seconds, meaning that the sensor's sample rate is simply too slow to be used to even attempt to account for body motion when shuffling power front to rear. You would need sample rates of hundreds of Hz to adequately monitor pitch and roll motions. For comparison, Magnaride has a sample rate of around 1000 Hz.
So, setting aside my 911 example )because I was right ;)), no, rotations are largely NOT about CG - simply imagine or draw the free body diagram. To roll about CG for example tire sidewall would have to flex impractically far. Simply think of a sport bike in a turn - center of rotation is out to the side far from CG. And again, accelerations at a given moment arm will give pitch/yaw/roll.
Sure it's reactive enough by definition, and it works well - remember ABS works at relatively low bandwidth too (10-20 Hz) and you'll never lock a tire. Also remember, ATTESA-ATS is monitoring what the driver is doing - part of what it is doing is it starts acting on input such as brake and steering angle before the effects are realized (same as ABS).
Not sure how the sampling frequency of MagneRide matters - that is a function of the bandwidth of the mechanics and transistors + current >>>>>>> pump/clutches + fluid.
Boy, that weather sure has been something.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 18, 2015, 08:03:50 PM
Also remember, ATTESA-ATS is monitoring what the driver is doing - part of what it is doing is it starts acting on input such as brake and steering angle before the effects are realized (same as ABS).
GT-R ATTESA-ETS does that, but G37 ATTESA-ETS does not. G37 ATTESA-ETS relies almost entirely on mechanical feedback from tire slippage.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 18, 2015, 08:03:50 PM
So, setting aside my 911 example )because I was right ;)), no, rotations are largely NOT about CG - simply imagine or draw the free body diagram. To roll about CG for example tire sidewall would have to flex impractically far. Simply think of a sport bike in a turn - center of rotation is out to the side far from CG. And again, accelerations at a given moment arm will give pitch/yaw/roll.
Sure it's reactive enough by definition, and it works well - remember ABS works at relatively low bandwidth too (10-20 Hz) and you'll never lock a tire. Also remember, ATTESA-ATS is monitoring what the driver is doing - part of what it is doing is it starts acting on input such as brake and steering angle before the effects are realized (same as ABS).
Not sure how the sampling frequency of MagneRide matters - that is a function of the bandwidth of the mechanics and transistors + current >>>>>>> pump/clutches + fluid.
Under rolling friction, yes, yaw does not occur about the CG. The center of rotation is where the projections of the steer axle and rear axle intersect. Under controlled oversteer, it shifts off of the rear axle line as slip angle comes into play. During an uncontrolled spinout on a slick surface like ice, it will be about the CG.
All that said, I excluded yaw because a firmer suspension is primarily to alter pitch and roll and vertical motion. Less dive under braking, less squat under acceleration, less roll under lateral load, less float over undulations. The only affect on yaw is that it can affect the g levels (generally raises them) at which slip will occur for a given tire.
10Hz is an order of magnitude too slow to capture body motion. I reference Magnaride because it actually does monitor body motion.
The sample rate of ABS systems is germane because ABS systems don't monitor vehicle body motion (pitch and roll). Also, don't confuse ABS brake cycle rate (~15Hz) with wheel speed sample rate. Wheel speed sample rate is several times higher than that. Bosch's system, for example, samples wheel speeds at 50 Hz.
Ford's stability control system in its SUVs has a dedicated body roll sensor that samples at over 100 Hz to monitor rollover risk. Bosch's new motorcycle stability control monitors roll/lean at over 100 Hz. Look at any system that actually monitors body motion and you'll find sample rates an order of magnitude higher than ATTESA's G sensor.
Which brings me to my final point: ATTESA-ETS as used in the G is not a stability control system. It is an active AWD management and traction control system.
Quote from: MX793 on March 19, 2015, 06:06:31 AM
Under rolling friction, yes, yaw does not occur about the CG. The center of rotation is where the projections of the steer axle and rear axle intersect. Under controlled oversteer, it shifts off of the rear axle line as slip angle comes into play. During an uncontrolled spinout on a slick surface like ice, it will be about the CG.
All that said, I excluded yaw because a firmer suspension is primarily to alter pitch and roll and vertical motion. Less dive under braking, less squat under acceleration, less roll under lateral load, less float over undulations. The only affect on yaw is that it can affect the g levels (generally raises them) at which slip will occur for a given tire.
10Hz is an order of magnitude too slow to capture body motion. I reference Magnaride because it actually does monitor body motion.
The sample rate of ABS systems is germane because ABS systems don't monitor vehicle body motion (pitch and roll). Also, don't confuse ABS brake cycle rate (~15Hz) with wheel speed sample rate. Wheel speed sample rate is several times higher than that. Bosch's system, for example, samples wheel speeds at 50 Hz.
Ford's stability control system in its SUVs has a dedicated body roll sensor that samples at over 100 Hz to monitor rollover risk. Bosch's new motorcycle stability control monitors roll/lean at over 100 Hz. Look at any system that actually monitors body motion and you'll find sample rates an order of magnitude higher than ATTESA's G sensor.
Which brings me to my final point: ATTESA-ETS as used in the G is not a stability control system. It is an active AWD management and traction control system.
ATTESA-ETS does not control body motion it reacts to it. I don't know how these other systems matter; I'm well aware of the basics of control systems in general (considering I design and program control systems for a living).
Body motion however you want to characterize it is critical to the function of ATTESA-ETS; nothing other than logic tells us so as body motion is a known input into the controller.
My final(/original/only) point is since body motion is critical to the function of ATTESA-ETS, and aftermarket suspension mucks with body motion which, aftermarket suspension will muck with ATTESA-ETS performance.
Jesus Cougs. Throw in the towel already
Quote from: MrH on March 19, 2015, 07:34:22 PM
Jesus Cougs. Throw in the towel already
That has never happened in the history of the Spin. But yeah, good advice.
Quote from: MrH on March 19, 2015, 07:34:22 PM
Jesus Cougs. Throw in the towel already
In his mind, he's "winning" the discussion.
Quote from: MrH on March 19, 2015, 07:34:22 PM
Jesus Cougs. Throw in the towel already
By now all you all have researched the topic and now know that aftermarket ATTESA controllers/firmware to account for chassis/suspension changes is A Thing.
Anyone who disagrees with me on this matter is wrong.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 19, 2015, 06:56:28 PM
ATTESA-ETS does not control body motion it reacts to it. I don't know how these other systems matter; I'm well aware of the basics of control systems in general (considering I design and program control systems for a living).
Body motion however you want to characterize it is critical to the function of ATTESA-ETS; nothing other than logic tells us so as body motion is a known input into the controller.
My final(/original/only) point is since body motion is critical to the function of ATTESA-ETS, and aftermarket suspension mucks with body motion which, aftermarket suspension will muck with ATTESA-ETS performance.
ATTESA-ETS in the G37 is NOT the same system found in the GT-R. You keep describing how the system in the GT-R functions. The G37 system relies almost entirely on mechanical input from slipping wheels therefore body motion is NOT critical to it's operation.
Quote from: SVT666 on March 19, 2015, 09:18:21 PM
ATTESA-ETS in the G37 is NOT the same system found in the GT-R. You keep describing how the system in the GT-R functions. The G37 system relies almost entirely on mechanical input from slipping wheels therefore body motion is NOT critical to it's operation.
If you disagree with Cougs you are wrong :pee:
Quote from: GoCougs on March 19, 2015, 06:56:28 PM
ATTESA-ETS does not control body motion it reacts to it. I don't know how these other systems matter; I'm well aware of the basics of control systems in general (considering I design and program control systems for a living).
Body motion however you want to characterize it is critical to the function of ATTESA-ETS; nothing other than logic tells us so as body motion is a known input into the controller.
My final(/original/only) point is since body motion is critical to the function of ATTESA-ETS, and aftermarket suspension mucks with body motion which, aftermarket suspension will muck with ATTESA-ETS performance.
These other systems matter because they are designed to do what you think ATTESA is doing: monitor and react to vehicle body motions. If 10Hz was an appropriate sample rate for that sort of thing, then why is everyone else running an order of magnitude higher?
Further, the system doesn't monitor vertical accelerations, only lateral and longitudinal. Only makes sense because road surfaces aren't smooth and it would have a heck of a time determining how much of the measured vertical G was from the vehicle's body moving and how much was from bumps in the road. The G-sensor is under the center console, so it's roughly in the lateral center of the car. Any body roll would be registered entirely, or nearly entirely, as a centripetal acceleration in the vertical axis (safely assuming it's above the roll center, that's a downward acceleration) with some small lateral component (in the same direction as the primary lateral acceleration) representing angular acceleration about the roll axis. But in short, roll's not even being monitored.
ATTESA-ETS uses the G-sensor data to know when to shuffle more power front or rear. "Dumber" AWD systems (including earlier, mechanical ATTESA used in FWD cars) rely entirely on wheelspin. If the rear wheels spin, they send power to the fronts regardless of what's going on with the car, or vise-versa. ATTESA-ETS is programmed not to send power to the front wheels if it detects the car is being cornered hard (i.e. "high" lateral accelerations are being registered) when rear wheel slip is detected so as to retain more RWD-like driving dynamics and a tendency to oversteer. By monitoring longitudinal data, it can more intelligently shuffle power rear-to-front when wheel slip is detected (low Gs and wheel-slip = slick surface = send lots of power to the fronts; high Gs and wheel slip = grippy surface = send a little power up front). That's all that G sensor is monitoring and its sample rate is appropriate for that sort of characterization. That's all ATTESA does. The ETS system in the G/Skyline and early GT-Rs does not actively manage, monitor, or react to yaw rates, nor does it have the capability to shuffle power left-to-right (ETS-Pro and ETS-GTR systems can and do) to adjust yaw. If it did, ATTESA-ETS would have been credited as the first production Electronic Stability Control system when it came out in the 1989 GT-R, and not the ESC/ESP systems used by BMW, Toyota, and Mercedes flagship models that all came out in 1995. Nissan also wouldn't need to fit ATTESA-equipped vehicles with their "Vehicle Dynamic Control" system (which came out years after ATTESA-ETS) because ATTESA should already cover everything that system does. But it doesn't, and they do.
As to aftermarket ATTESA firmware, I can't turn up any for the standard ETS system or for the G35/37x (or any of the other AWD FM-based cars using ATTESA-ETS) on the Google. ETS-Pro and ETS-GTR, yes, but not regular ETS.
A final note: The more defensible reason not to fit aftermarket suspension bits to an Infiniti G is not "because it will mess up the ATESSA system", but rather "because it will mess up the VDC system", which is noted in the owner's manual of every Nissan/Infiniti vehicle fitted with VDC.
Again you're not understanding system bandwidth. ATTESA is limited by its mechanics.
And again ATTESA uses a 3-axis accelerometer, not 2, negating most of that commentary.
To be honest I'm not sure how marketing blurbs or trade names matter. Only tech does and the understanding of it.
I don't doubt here isn't much aftermarket G37 ATTESA support, or even suspension mods - why bother?
I didn't mention anything about splitting power left and right.
Aftermarket suspension can muck also muck with stability control as well. It's just not a good idea.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 20, 2015, 09:31:04 AM
Again you're not understanding system bandwidth. ATTESA is limited by its mechanics.
Monitoring rate is not response rate. You seem to confuse the two, as your previous comments about ABS having a ~10 Hz sample rate (which is the brake cylinder cycle-rate, not the sensor sample rate) indicates. That a supposed controls engineer can't seem to grasp the difference is, frankly, kind of disturbing.
QuoteAnd again ATTESA uses a 3-axis accelerometer, not 2, negating most of that commentary.
Having the ability to measure 3 axes doesn't mean it's actually using all 3 axes. My phone has a 3-axis accelerometer but generally only utilizes two axes (to know which way to orient the display depending on phone orientation) save for when running certain applications that use all 3. Perhaps you should do more research?
QuoteTo be honest I'm not sure how marketing blurbs or trade names matter. Only tech does and the understanding of it.
Absolutely, and you clearly don't understand the function or purpose of the tech that is ATTESA. If you're going to say "this will interfere with the functionality of [system XYZ]", you should understand what that system does and how it does it. Go do some research.
QuoteI don't doubt here isn't much aftermarket G37 ATTESA support, or even suspension mods - why bother?
Because it's a performance oriented car like the 3-series, which enthusiasts are apt to want to upgrade? ATTESA-ETS as used on the G37 was also used on the R32 GT-R, which absolutely has substantial aftermarket support and a lively tuner scene. I couldn't find any aftermarket ATTESA-ETS software/firmware for that either (other than ETS-Pro).
QuoteI didn't mention anything about splitting power left and right.
I was clarifying that standard ATTESA-ETS does not do active yaw control, which may include but is not limited to modulating power left and right as many "thrust vectoring" smart diffs do.
QuoteAftermarket suspension can muck also muck with stability control as well. It's just not a good idea.
Indeed. As can tires that are significantly different from what is fitted from the factory (like snow tires on a car fitted with hi-po summer tires). But that wasn't your argument. You specifically said that the ATTESA system would be compromised.
rhetorical question: Does Cougs even know how many times he has been defeated?
G37 ATTESA has a 3-axis accelerometer. This invalidates your position.
And lol at the trademark moniker jihad insult - creative I guess but c'mon, bro...
I am correct and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 20, 2015, 10:24:22 AM
G37 ATTESA has a 3-axis accelerometer. This invalidates your position.
It invalidates nothing. Again, having the capability to measure 3-axes doesn't mean data taken from all 3 axes is being utilized or processed. My phone has a 3-axis and doesn't utilize all 3 for most applications. In fact, as configured from the factory, I don't think any application used all three axes.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on March 20, 2015, 10:13:37 AM
rhetorical question: Does Cougs even know how many times he has been defeated?
Its been a shockingly large amount in the last few months. Pretty sure he is one step away from the Looney Bin
Quote from: GoCougs on March 20, 2015, 10:24:22 AM
I am correct and anyone who disagrees with me is wrong.
Even reality, apparently. This is r0tor level obstinance....
Quote from: MX793 on March 20, 2015, 10:31:15 AM
It invalidates nothing. Again, having the capability to measure 3-axes doesn't mean data taken from all 3 axes is being utilized or processed. My phone has a 3-axis and doesn't utilize all 3 for most applications. In fact, as configured from the factory, I don't think any application used all three axes.
C'mon, man. Why would Nissan spend all that $ on hardware and development then not use it? (They wouldn't - ATTESA uses all three axes.)
Cougs trademark selective blind faith in OEMs is his undoing yet again lol.
Guys just let Cougs think he's driving a budget GT-R.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 20, 2015, 11:05:33 AM
C'mon, man. Why would Nissan spend all that $ on hardware and development then not use it? (They wouldn't - ATTESA uses all three axes.)
From a design/development standpoint, it costs no more money to design around a 3-axis sensor and only use 2 of the axes than it does to design around a 2-axis sensor. It's no harder to package or develop wiring harnesses. Software doesn't care. A quick search shows that 3-axis sensors are actually much more common than 2-axis, and they cost the same (and are roughly the same size). Costs, size, and availability being the same, why not use a 3-axis? It gives you the option of future system capability expansion to utilize the 3rd axis without needing to redesign hardware to package a different sensor. That the 3-axis is more common only further strengthens the case for using one at 2/3s of its capability versus spec'ing a 2-axis.
Man this is some legendary schooling on MX's part
MX is absolutely destroying Cougs.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 20, 2015, 09:31:04 AM
I don't doubt here isn't much aftermarket G37 ATTESA support, or even suspension mods - why bother?
Seriously? There are lots of aftermarket suspensions for the G37x sedan. I've been comparing the different ones that are available lately.
Quote from: SVT666 on March 20, 2015, 12:47:52 PM
MX is absolutely destroying Cougs.
Its hard to win an argument from the wrong side of reality. r0tor could destroy Cougs argument
My feelings are so hurt
Quote from: MX793 on March 20, 2015, 11:39:28 AM
From a design/development standpoint, it costs no more money to design around a 3-axis sensor and only use 2 of the axes than it does to design around a 2-axis sensor. It's no harder to package or develop wiring harnesses. Software doesn't care. A quick search shows that 3-axis sensors are actually much more common than 2-axis, and they cost the same (and are roughly the same size). Costs, size, and availability being the same, why not use a 3-axis? It gives you the option of future system capability expansion to utilize the 3rd axis without needing to redesign hardware to package a different sensor. That the 3-axis is more common only further strengthens the case for using one at 2/3s of its capability versus spec'ing a 2-axis.
No offense but you're outta your element here - really, based on how you think your cell phone works? If but for nothing else, beyond of course HW and SW cost, there is additional cost in doc control and supply chain management to carry forward unused capability, esp. as it concerns scalability. I'd drone on about my product engineering experience too (like microcontroller-controlled stuff, which is what the ATTESA controller is) but tech knowledge/experience doesn't hold much sway on the 'SPIN (and regurgitating monikers or Wiki entries does NOT suffice). Jesus, just look at all the wrong-based hate in the C7 Z06 thread. :facepalm:. Suffice it to say your but-I-think-my-cell-phone-works-this-way premise would get you fired from a product engineering role. Nissan isn't going to buy and build a system around a 3 channel sensor if it only needs 2. It's ridiculous to assert otherwise.
Maybe next time don't try so hard to be the resident expert.
"Maybe next time don't try so hard to be the resident expert."
BWAHAHHHAHHAHHHAHHHAHAHHAHAHHHAAAAHHAHAHAH!!!!!!!
Quote from: GoCougs on March 20, 2015, 01:58:21 PM
No offense but you're outta your element here - really, based on how you think your cell phone works? If but for nothing else, beyond of course HW and SW cost, there is additional cost in doc control and supply chain management to carry forward unused capability, esp. as it concerns scalability. I'd drone on about my product engineering experience too (like microcontroller-controlled stuff, which is what the ATTESA controller is) but tech knowledge/experience doesn't hold much sway on the 'SPIN (and regurgitating monikers or Wiki entries does NOT suffice). Jesus, just look at all the wrong-based hate in the C7 Z06 thread. :facepalm:. Suffice it to say your but-I-think-my-cell-phone-works-this-way premise would get you fired from a product engineering role. Nissan isn't going to buy and build a system around a 3 channel sensor if it only needs 2. It's ridiculous to assert otherwise.
Maybe next time don't try so hard to be the resident expert.
LOL and ford wouldn't install an extra wiring harness from the radio to the trunk of EVERY 1st Gen Taurus made "just in case they order the upgraded stereo" either....
OH WAIT, they DID. And my GUESS is that maybe 30% were used.
Why do you guys bother? When's the last time you went "oh gee I was wrong, I sure am glad Cougs brought X up"? He piles on details and obfuscations and never demonstrates any definitive knowledge of anything. Stop letting him hijack all of your threads with his Dockers-ass chest beating.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 20, 2015, 01:58:21 PM
No offense but you're outta your element here - really, based on how you think your cell phone works? If but for nothing else, beyond of course HW and SW cost, there is additional cost in doc control and supply chain management to carry forward unused capability, esp. as it concerns scalability. I'd drone on about my product engineering experience too (like microcontroller-controlled stuff, which is what the ATTESA controller is) but tech knowledge/experience doesn't hold much sway on the 'SPIN (and regurgitating monikers or Wiki entries does NOT suffice). Jesus, just look at all the wrong-based hate in the C7 Z06 thread. :facepalm:. Suffice it to say your but-I-think-my-cell-phone-works-this-way premise would get you fired from a product engineering role. Nissan isn't going to buy and build a system around a 3 channel sensor if it only needs 2. It's ridiculous to assert otherwise.
Maybe next time don't try so hard to be the resident expert.
What additional costs are associated with documentation control or configuration management associated with using a 2-axis vs 3-axis sensor?
What additional supply chain management costs are associated with purchasing and stocking a $3.00 3-axis sensor module/chip versus a $3.00 2-axis sensor module/chip? It's not like extra, unused components are being bought, managed, and stocked. You have to buy a sensor either way, one chip (or board/module) just has an extra output that you aren't utilizing (either by not connecting it or simply having your software ignore it). Happens all the time in electronics since there are many micro-chips and devices that offer multiple functions, inputs, and outputs to accommodate multiple uses (and users) and some will inevitably go unused depending on the application. PWM modules that offer inputs for both analog and digital control. Displays that offer multiple input types (VGA, DVI, HDMI). Vibration sensor diagnostic units that offer both discrete digital and analog outputs. Hell, sticking with automotive, how many stereo head units have unused functions or inputs buried behind the dash to support CD changers or external amplifiers or subwoofers that were never offered from the factory? Why do the fuse boxes in both my cars have a bunch of unused slots? Oh! the wasted costs of unused capability being needlessly carried forward!!
What makes you think you're the only person with hardware and product development experience on this board? Or configuration/change management and documentation control?
Do you really expect to get anywhere MX?
The information you provided is great, but other than the audience it is surely falling on deaf ears.
Quote from: MX793 on March 20, 2015, 03:16:02 PM
What additional costs are associated with documentation control or configuration management associated with using a 2-axis vs 3-axis sensor?
What additional supply chain management costs are associated with purchasing and stocking a $3.00 3-axis sensor module/chip versus a $3.00 2-axis sensor module/chip? It's not like extra, unused components are being bought, managed, and stocked. You have to buy a sensor either way, one chip (or board/module) just has an extra output that you aren't utilizing (either by not connecting it or simply having your software ignore it). Happens all the time in electronics since there are many micro-chips and devices that offer multiple functions, inputs, and outputs to accommodate multiple uses (and users) and some will inevitably go unused depending on the application. PWM modules that offer inputs for both analog and digital control. Displays that offer multiple input types (VGA, DVI, HDMI). Vibration sensor diagnostic units that offer both discrete digital and analog outputs. Hell, sticking with automotive, how many stereo head units have unused functions or inputs buried behind the dash to support CD changers or external amplifiers or subwoofers that were never offered from the factory? Why do the fuse boxes in both my cars have a bunch of unused slots? Oh! the wasted costs of unused capability being needlessly carried forward!!
What makes you think you're the only person with hardware and product development experience on this board? Or configuration/change management and documentation control?
Again, you take a bit of knowledge and the try to apply where it can't be applied. The ATTESA controller is a highly specific custom embedded control system; neither your car stereo nor your PC monitor is this by any stretch of the imagination. Here's why your premise doesn't wash:
First, the output from an accelerometer is some sort of continuous signal, such as analog voltage or current (0-10V) proportional to acceleration. Such signals are touchy WRT to noise (think sensitivity of an FM radio signal) and thus need care and feeding to ensure integrity. This usually takes the form of shielding, conductor design and routing. Preserving the capability of using the third channel means that design of the placement of the sensor has to account for care and feeding of this third TBD channel.
Second, one just doesn't buy a "chip". Whatever the guts - ASIC, microcontroller, etc., it's highly configurable - they are available in a wide range of configurations - size, I/O count, DAC resolution, RAM, clock speed, etc. The issue with analog inputs is they are process intensive - they take a lot of memory, they usually take a lot of processing (high scan rate), and usually take a lot of code (usually filtered). So, why mention this? Nissan pays more now for a microcontroller that can handle 3 analog channels or pay less for a microcontroller that can't and deal with it in the future. The latter presents problems because it may bit a different chip (different size/pin count).
Third, the more there is to a component the more it costs to document and to control - think schematics, programming CAD models (esp. as it concerns designing for #1). Also, this applies to the documentation and training to diagnose/repair/replace the component.
Fourth, is a corollary of Moore's Law. With each passing year sensors and microcontrollers get smaller/cheaper/more capable - investing in 2015 capability to
maybe use in 3, 5, 7+ years' time is an extremely dubious premise. IME it is cheaper to retool in 3, 5, 7+ years' time for the newer tech if any sort of significant feature or capability is added.
Fifth, purely philosophical - if Nissan is already spending a bunch of money developing a hi-po AWD system, why not go all in - why preserve capability?
Sixth, direct material cost - say what you will but a 3-axis acceleramotor will cost more than a 2-axis - this is inarguable.
Others with product design experience are free to speak up. This "just because" premise should set off sirens for those familiar with the craft. Embedded controller products aren't really designed like that, and if they are, it's outside the norm. Since any automaker has been developing high volume custom embedded controllers for many years, pretty much none of them are doing stuff outside the norm.
This is really bad.
GoFail
This is a necessary process though.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 20, 2015, 08:43:47 PM
Again, you take a bit of knowledge and the try to apply where it can't be applied. The ATTESA controller is a highly specific custom embedded control system; neither your car stereo nor your PC monitor is this by any stretch of the imagination. Here's why your premise doesn't wash:
Last I checked, an LED/LCD monitor does indeed have an embedded control system. There's a circuit card with a variety of chips including PWMs, CPLDs/FPGAs, ADCs, clocks/oscillators, etc...
QuoteFirst, the output from an accelerometer is some sort of continuous signal, such as analog voltage or current (0-10V) proportional to acceleration. Such signals are touchy WRT to noise (think sensitivity of an FM radio signal) and thus need care and feeding to ensure integrity. This usually takes the form of shielding, conductor design and routing. Preserving the capability of using the third channel means that design of the placement of the sensor has to account for care and feeding of this third TBD channel.
It's called using twisted/shielded and impedance controlled cabling. It's commonplace and not hard to design for if you know what you're doing. I have a fair bit of experience in this area, as well as electronics packaging in general.
QuoteSecond, one just doesn't buy a "chip". Whatever the guts - ASIC, microcontroller, etc., it's highly configurable - they are available in a wide range of configurations - size, I/O count, DAC resolution, RAM, clock speed, etc. The issue with analog inputs is they are process intensive - they take a lot of memory, they usually take a lot of processing (high scan rate), and usually take a lot of code (usually filtered). So, why mention this? Nissan pays more now for a microcontroller that can handle 3 analog channels or pay less for a microcontroller that can't and deal with it in the future. The latter presents problems because it may bit a different chip (different size/pin count).
I'm talking sensors, not controllers. This in no way presents a logical argument against using a 3-axis sensor and not utilizing the 3rd axis versus a 2-axis sensor. You connect the signals from 2 of the 3 axes to your controller and it works just like a 2-axis sensor. Your micro-controller that's receiving the data will not know the difference.
Yes, analog processing is memory intensive. Probably why Nissan's controller only has a 10Hz sample rate.
QuoteThird, the more there is to a component the more it costs to document and to control - think schematics, programming CAD models (esp. as it concerns designing for #1). Also, this applies to the documentation and training to diagnose/repair/replace the component.
I'm pretty sure Nissan, nor any auto manufacturer, is in the business of designing their own sensors. They'll either find an OTS sensor or work with someone to build one to their specs and control the design via a PCD or SCD. As far as Nissan is concerned, all they have to control is the envelope, interfaces, and I/O. The guts of the sensor itself (what little there are in a 3-axis or 2-axis sensor) are a black box to them. And a sensor manufacturer is likely to rely heavily on some core design features and design re-use of their standard products when making a "custom" design. I see this frequently in my industry.
We're talking about an all-in-one sensor module here (since that's how they come), not adding an extra drive axle. Like an ABS control module, if it goes bad, you yank the whole thing and replace it. You don't try repairing a single channel if one axis of the sensor craps out.
For the record, I'm talking about something like this little 3-axis sensor module:
http://www.analog.com/en/products/mems/mems-accelerometers/adxl335.html#product-overview (http://www.analog.com/en/products/mems/mems-accelerometers/adxl335.html#product-overview)
Lots of these sorts of things available. 2-axis units are much less common. Toss that little board in an EMI-tight box with a shielded Micro-D connector and you're off to the races...
QuoteFourth, is a corollary of Moore's Law. With each passing year sensors and microcontrollers get smaller/cheaper/more capable - investing in 2015 capability to maybe use in 3, 5, 7+ years' time is an extremely dubious premise. IME it is cheaper to retool in 3, 5, 7+ years' time for the newer tech if any sort of significant feature or capability is added.
And yet we have cars today sporting evolutions of, or the same, subsystems developed decades ago. ATTESA-ETS was developed 25 years ago. ETS Pro and ETS GTR subsequent evolutions of that system. Computer operating systems that, at their core, still contain base code from generations ago. The military is flying fighter jets developed decades ago, upgraded again and again with better avionics and weapons systems. Had these been designed "maxed out" and un-upgradeable from the get-go, the designs would be completely obsolete and sent to the scrapyard ages ago.
QuoteFifth, purely philosophical - if Nissan is already spending a bunch of money developing a hi-po AWD system, why not go all in - why preserve capability?
ATTESA-ETS was first developed for the R32. A few years later, the next generation R33 came out and Nissan upgraded the ATTESSA-ETS system to ETS Pro, which included significantly greater capability. Why didn't they just "go all out" and include this capability in the R32 when they first developed ETS? Technology marches perpetually forward. You do the best you can with what you have (time, budget, available tech) and if you can leave your system room to grow and evolve, you can save costs in the long run by building on it rather than starting from scratch every time.
QuoteSixth, direct material cost - say what you will but a 3-axis acceleramotor will cost more than a 2-axis - this is inarguable.
If all anybody makes are 1-axis and 3-axis sensors, you'll pay more getting a custom 2-axis and buying it in relatively small quantities than you will using a OTS 3-axis design that's already in production and only utilizing 2 axes.
QuoteOthers with product design experience are free to speak up. This "just because" premise should set off sirens for those familiar with the craft. Embedded controller products aren't really designed like that, and if they are, it's outside the norm. Since any automaker has been developing high volume custom embedded controllers for many years, pretty much none of them are doing stuff outside the norm.
Again, I'm not talking about controller design. I'm talking about sensors. Self-contained devices separate from the controller that talk to the controller with an analog signal. The ATTESA system's G-sensor is not co-located or embedded with its controller, it's remotely located under the center console.
And to put the whole "ATTESA-ETS monitors vertical accelerations" argument to bed, here's a schematic diagram for ATTESA-ETS from a Nissan manual for the R32 GT-R.
(http://www.raceinfo.no/temp/attesa%20ets%20r32.jpg)
Note, there's a lateral G sensor and a longitudinal G sensor (2 of them, actually), but no connection for a vertical G sensor.
Boom. Roasted.
Lol, Jesus holy hell, so killing all those 'SPIN bytes with this stuff about using two axes of a three axis sensor and there's three axes right there. C'mon, man. This is r0tor levels of hp vs. torque shamefulness. Why do you keep doing this?Note two "longitudinal" axes - oriented in some measure of L/R or F/R, or in some sort of tilted plane or some such.
As to the rest of that stuff above? Most of it is either wrong or irrelevant:
The point is a monitor or radio is designed to interface to existing stuff - there is no nonsense about reserve capability.
If Nissan wanted a two axis sensor it would build one.
That cable has to land at a bulkhead connector and then the conductors have to enter a housing, usually landing on a trace, which eventually finds its way to the controller. None of it is hard but it takes time and real estate to do property for analog signals. They ain't doing it to reserve some TBD capability. And of course you've now proven it with that schematic - there are three axes from the G-sensor.
The point is, if there exists the magical unused axis in reserve for TBD capability, there has to be some sort of plan. If the processor can handle it now there will have to be accommodations (real estate, pin count) for a processor that can in the future. There is a cost either way.
If it goes on Nissan's cars Nissan documents it. It is not a black box. Also if Nissan wanted only a two axis sensor it would be using one, this fact is mute now what with that schematic.
Fighter jets? If you think the ATTESA controller in the G37 is the same used 25 years ago I have some very bad news. Research the look and part numbers of ATTESA controllers - they're different.
Pretty much any configuration of any sensor is available, and there is "popularity" discount like what you're describing. Nissan's sensor was built for their use.
ATTESA monitors what the car is doing, and that includes body motion, if you disagree you are wrong.
Holy shit, the custom obd interface I am building has a 3 axis accelerometer that is embedded I to the connector that I programmed to trigger a display on an LCD screen for 2 of the 3 axis... Never knew I was doing cougs level rocket sciencetry!!
Lol Cougs you are digging a deep, stinky hole.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 21, 2015, 12:09:06 AM
Lol, Jesus holy hell, so killing all those 'SPIN bytes with this stuff about using two axes of a three axis sensor and there's three axes right there. C'mon, man. This is r0tor levels of hp vs. torque shamefulness. Why do you keep doing this?Note two "longitudinal" axes - oriented in some measure of L/R or F/R, or in some sort of tilted plane or some such.
How do you get "vertical" out of L/R and F/R orientation?
QuoteAs to the rest of that stuff above? Most of it is either wrong or irrelevant:
That cable has to land at a bulkhead connector and then the conductors have to enter a housing, usually landing on a trace, which eventually finds its way to the controller. None of it is hard but it takes time and real estate to do property for analog signals. They ain't doing it to reserve some TBD capability. And of course you've now proven it with that schematic - there are three axes from the G-sensor.
Have you ever looked at accelerometer chips or self-contained breakout boards? It takes no more realestate to package a 3-axis vs a 2-axis. Do you want me to design you an EMI tight sensor reporting 2-axis data using a 3-axis chip? I could do it in about 20 minutes. Like I said, you no-connect to the third axis. Your controller, with 2-axis inputs, won't know the difference. It's still getting 2-axis data. That's all it cares about.
QuoteThe point is, if there exists the magical unused axis in reserve for TBD capability, there has to be some sort of plan. If the processor can handle it now there will have to be accommodations (real estate, pin count) for a processor that can in the future. There is a cost either way.
I found one reference, on a GTR forum (and haven't been able to corroborate it anywhere else) that Vspec versions of R33 and R34 GT-Rs did use the vertical axis data for their ATTESA-ETS Pro systems. It wasn't used for monitoring body pitch/roll. It used it to determine if the car was on a slope and would apportion more power to the front wheels if a slope was detected. This makes some sense, but I question it because I can't find anything else that mentions the system, in either ETS, ETS Pro, or ETS GTR forms, monitoring Z-axis G-loads. More on this below.
QuoteIf it goes on Nissan's cars Nissan documents it. It is not a black box. Also if Nissan wanted only a two axis sensor it would be using one, this fact is mute now what with that schematic.
So Nissan doesn't use a single off-the-shelf microchip on any circuit card they build? They schematically control every internal detail of every CPLD, PWM, FPGA, etc that they use? I highly doubt that. They spec a CPLD, they control the interfaces/IO, package size, and environmental requirements (temperature range and such). If they need a sensor module, they'll do the same thing. Physical requirements, I/O and interface control.
QuoteIf you think the ATTESA controller in the G37 is the same used 25 years ago I have some very bad news. Research the look and part numbers of ATTESA controllers - they're different.
Of course they're different. I'm sure nearly every chip on the controller board went obsolete at least twice over the past 25 years. They may have also repackaged it as parts got smaller over the years. Doesn't mean that the system functions differently.
This is a gen 1 NES console
(http://images.eurogamer.net/2013/usgamer/NES-01.jpg)
And this is a later gen 1 NES console.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e0/NES-101-Console-Set.jpg)
Very different packages, but they work the same.
QuoteATTESA monitors what the car is doing, and that includes body motion, if you disagree you are wrong.
Here's an aftermarket replacement ATTESA control setup that replaces the factory 3-D sensor with a 2-D unit.
http://www.full-race.com/store/r14-awd-skyline/ets-pro-center-diff-torque-split-controller-for-r32-r33-r34-skyline-gt-r-1.html (http://www.full-race.com/store/r14-awd-skyline/ets-pro-center-diff-torque-split-controller-for-r32-r33-r34-skyline-gt-r-1.html)
Here's a book on the history of the GT-R with a pretty in-depth explanation of how ATTESA works. Preview doesn't give you 100% access (though you can search 100% of the book), but when I search under "vertical" and "G-sensor", I turn up nothing. No mention of measuring/monitoring or reacting to body pitch and/or roll either.
http://books.google.com/books?id=uqjTj_6z6cQC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false (http://books.google.com/books?id=uqjTj_6z6cQC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false)
Cougs is digging himself deeper every time he posts.
Nissan builds nothing. They assemble a product from parts that are supplied to them. If they want a 2 axis sensor but the low bidder proposes a 3 axis sensor but utilizing just 2 of the 3 axes, that's the one they go with.
These diversions about stuff that doesn't apply (now NES?), then this this 2 vs. 3 stuff and just not understanding embedded controller design in general. You just tried too hard and it went poorly for you. FFT for the future.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 21, 2015, 08:18:04 AM
These diversions about stuff that doesn't apply (now NES?), then this this 2 vs. 3 stuff and just not understanding embedded controller design in general. You just tried too hard and it went poorly for you. FFT for the future.
You're right, let's stop with the diversions and get back to the crux of it.
-The ATTESA-ETS system doesn't monitor vertical accelerations.
-The ATTESA-ETS system doesn't monitor or respond to body pitch and roll movements because it has no way of measuring them.
The evidence is all there in previous posts. Aftermarket systems that replace the factory 3-axis sensor with a 2-axis. Schematics indicating no vertical-direction sensor inputs to the controller. A book describing the functionality of the ATTESA system that makes no mention of body roll or pitch/dive/squat being inputs for the system.
And therefore, suspension modification that alter body motion (pitch and roll) will not interfere with how ATTESA-ETS functions.
Yes, ATTESA-ETS monitors what the car is doing, and that includes body motion, via a 3 axis accelerometer.
Who cares about aftermarket systems.
Mucking with suspension will muck with ATTESA-ETS performance.
Wow. Watching Cougs try to convince everyone he's right when it's painfully obvious he's not, is so much fun.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 21, 2015, 09:13:45 AM
Yes, ATTESA-ETS monitors what the car is doing, and that includes body motion, via a 3 axis accelerometer.
Who cares about aftermarket systems.
Mucking with suspension will muck with ATTESA-ETS performance.
Back to square one. Any proof? Your proclamations of expertise are inadmissible at this point.
1. Has anyone in the auto or aftermarket industry said what Cougs is saying?
2. No, of course not
3. Why is everyone still talking?
Quote from: Secret Chimp on March 21, 2015, 04:11:16 PM
1. Has anyone in the auto or aftermarket industry said what Cougs is saying?
2. No, of course not
3. Why is everyone still talking?
Because-
Quote from: SVT666 on March 21, 2015, 09:20:14 AM
Wow. Watching Cougs try to convince everyone he's right when it's painfully obvious he's not, is so much fun.
I mean, I don't work with AWD systems in particular, but I do a lot of active suspensions that work based on similar principles. We have similar wiring harnesses and are using a lot of the same sensors. I agree with pretty much everything MX said up to this point :huh:
You mean, the point about only using 2 axes of a 3 axis sensor, and all the contextual reasons that is an expensive and wasteful thing to do, and then all of sudden finding out that all 3 axes are indeed used?
Quote from: GoCougs on March 22, 2015, 10:25:01 AM
You mean, the point about only using 2 axes of a 3 axis sensor, and all the contextual reasons that is an expensive and wasteful thing to do, and then all of sudden finding out that all 3 axes are indeed used?
Your clinging to any detail about which you may have been "right" about is charming. That you adjusted your argument from "it's measuring X, Y, and Z direction accelerations because it has a 3-axis sensor" to "I'm right! It measures 3-axes" at the revelation that the 3rd axis is in fact co-planar has been duly noted.
I will concede that I had assumed "3-axis sensor" to mean "3 mutually perpendicular axes", as the term is almost always used to imply rather than 3 coplanar axes. I know most, including yourself, made the same assumption. I was wrong on that point, though it changes little in the overall argument of how the system works and what external inputs it monitors and reacts to.
Doesn't change the fact that I was correct that the system does not monitor vertical motions/accelerations and is ultimately a 2-D system. It doesn't monitor nor account for squat, dive, or roll. The hardware is ill-suited to monitor body motions. If you care about pitch and roll, you use a gyro-type sensor to directly measure these rather than trying to extrapolate from linear accelerometer data. And from a single sensor at that. A single, 3-D linear accelerometer, even one measuring Z-axis accelerations, is not the right tool for the job. Nor is a 10 Hz sample rate appropriate for monitoring body motions. There's a reason why all stability control systems use gyroscopic yaw rate sensors rather than relying on mathematically extracting yaw rate from one (or more) linear accelerometers.
You've yet to provide anything to refute this other than the unsupported statements: "It accounts for body motion" and "If you disagree with me, you are wrong".
I'm going to have to side with slocougs on this one. Sorry guys, but save yourself further embarrassment and hit the showers.
Quote from: MX793 on March 22, 2015, 11:28:57 AM
Your clinging to any detail about which you may have been "right" about is charming. That you adjusted your argument from "it's measuring X, Y, and Z direction accelerations because it has a 3-axis sensor" to "I'm right! It measures 3-axes" at the revelation that the 3rd axis is in fact co-planar has been duly noted.
I will concede that I had assumed "3-axis sensor" to mean "3 mutually perpendicular axes", as the term is almost always used to imply rather than 3 coplanar axes. I know most, including yourself, made the same assumption. I was wrong on that point, though it changes little in the overall argument of how the system works and what external inputs it monitors and reacts to.
Doesn't change the fact that I was correct that the system does not monitor vertical motions/accelerations and is ultimately a 2-D system. It doesn't monitor nor account for squat, dive, or roll. The hardware is ill-suited to monitor body motions. If you care about pitch and roll, you use a gyro-type sensor to directly measure these rather than trying to extrapolate from linear accelerometer data. And from a single sensor at that. A single, 3-D linear accelerometer, even one measuring Z-axis accelerations, is not the right tool for the job. Nor is a 10 Hz sample rate appropriate for monitoring body motions. There's a reason why all stability control systems use gyroscopic yaw rate sensors rather than relying on mathematically extracting yaw rate from one (or more) linear accelerometers.
You've yet to provide anything to refute this other than the unsupported statements: "It accounts for body motion" and "If you disagree with me, you are wrong".
I'm not clinging I'm just saying...
Think of it this way - if you were to put a DMM or o-scope on the output of each of the three axes and while stationary, rock the vehicle by hand from left to right by pushing on the upper door frame and then rock the vehicle fore to aft by pushing down on the trunk, would you see signal output? Of course you will, ergo, it's a factor in the ATTESA algorithm.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 22, 2015, 12:35:22 PM
Think of it this way - if you were to put a DMM or o-scope on the output of each of the three axes and while stationary, rock the vehicle by hand from left to right by pushing on the upper door frame and then rock the vehicle fore to aft by pushing down on the trunk, would you see signal output? Of course you will, ergo, it's a factor in the ATTESA algorithm.
Sure, you'll see something from body motion through the accelerometers. You'll also see something if you park the car on an incline or side slope. These sensor outputs will be small compared to the primary inputs (acceleration, braking, and lateral corner force) by a factor of 10 or 20. Now factor that the car is moving down the road, which is not a perfectly smooth or flat surface, at speed. You have bumps, dips, inclines, declines, and side slopes which will all be registered, at some level, by the accelerometer. Now you need to try to distinguish and isolate these from any pitching and rolling of the body on its suspension associated with driver inputs. All from a single, linear, multi-axis sensor (in this case, one that only measures in a single plane). With a data collection rate of only 10 samples per second. Good luck.
Sample rate aside, that's a lot of math to try to process simply to figure out how to split power between the front and rear axles. It simply doesn't make practical sense to even go through the exercise if your goal is simply to create an algorithm that puts more power to the rear wheels the harder the car is driven and to ignore some rear wheel slip under high cornering load scenarios.
Again, ATTESA will know what the car is doing in sum total as it's looking at all sorts of other stuff.
Sensor output is unknown - gain may very well differ by axes. Again, logically, it's not measuring in a single plane if it has three axes; a plane only needs two axes.
And again, ATTESA isn't controlling high bandwidth mechanics like a shock, it is concerned with macro car movements such as cornering, braking, launching, etc., as it affects traction. Those things do not happen all that quickly (unlike controlling a shock to react to road surface).
Meh, microcontrollers are good at math - that's not a problem. The real work is in the development of the algorithm(s) based on all of the inputs.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 22, 2015, 06:39:03 PM
Again, ATTESA will know what the car is doing in sum total as it's looking at all sorts of other stuff.
Sensor output is unknown - gain may very well differ by axes. Again, logically, it's not measuring in a single plane if it has three axes; a plane only needs two axes.
And again, ATTESA isn't controlling high bandwidth mechanics like a shock, it is concerned with macro car movements such as cornering, braking, launching, etc., as it affects traction. Those things do not happen all that quickly (unlike controlling a shock to react to road surface).
Meh, microcontrollers are good at math - that's not a problem. The real work is in the development of the algorithm(s) based on all of the inputs.
An infinite number of axes may reside in a single plane. One lateral and 2 longitudinals in a single sensor kind of implies "single plane". That at least one aftermarket kit replaces the factory sensor with a simpler 2-axis further supports that the system works 2-D. Why does the factory sensor have 2 longitudinal axes? I don't know. Maybe the two aren't completely longitudinal, but cross each other in the same plane and the controller derives an average value?
Accounting for body motions with a single single-plane sensor, or even a true 3-axis, is simply impractical. The algorithms would have to be exceptionally and unnecessarily complex for what is being asked of the system. I'm not just talking about dealing with shock type of events like bumps and potholes. Banked turns (or partially banked), off-camber turns (or partially off-camber), inclines, and declines all exist in the real world. None of these are "fast" transient events and all would interfere with trying to sense if the body is pitching or rolling and by how much if you're trying to detect that with only a linear accelerometer.
And I again point to the text I found that talks about the workings of the ATTESA system that makes no mention of it monitoring or reacting to body motions (pitch and roll). That would be a pretty fundamental aspect of the way the system works and something that somebody would mention in even a high level writeup of the system. It would be something you'd see Nissan advertising in their tech blurbs. It's not even mentioned as a function in any tech write-up for the latest GTR. Only yaw rate, measured directly by a dedicated yaw rate sensor, is mentioned as far as body motions being inputs to the system. And if the more advanced system in the GTR doesn't have it, the simpler ETS version in the G certainly doesn't have it.
I'm gonna lower my G37 and then get an aftermarket program to keep ATTESA in RWD only unless I press the "snow" button on the centre console. Fuck the sensor.
Can we get back to talking about 140HP Civics
Quote from: MX793 on March 22, 2015, 07:28:37 PM
An infinite number of axes may reside in a single plane. One lateral and 2 longitudinals in a single sensor kind of implies "single plane". That at least one aftermarket kit replaces the factory sensor with a simpler 2-axis further supports that the system works 2-D. Why does the factory sensor have 2 longitudinal axes? I don't know. Maybe the two aren't completely longitudinal, but cross each other in the same plane and the controller derives an average value?
Accounting for body motions with a single single-plane sensor, or even a true 3-axis, is simply impractical. The algorithms would have to be exceptionally and unnecessarily complex for what is being asked of the system. I'm not just talking about dealing with shock type of events like bumps and potholes. Banked turns (or partially banked), off-camber turns (or partially off-camber), inclines, and declines all exist in the real world. None of these are "fast" transient events and all would interfere with trying to sense if the body is pitching or rolling and by how much if you're trying to detect that with only a linear accelerometer.
And I again point to the text I found that talks about the workings of the ATTESA system that makes no mention of it monitoring or reacting to body motions (pitch and roll). That would be a pretty fundamental aspect of the way the system works and something that somebody would mention in even a high level writeup of the system. It would be something you'd see Nissan advertising in their tech blurbs. It's not even mentioned as a function in any tech write-up for the latest GTR. Only yaw rate, measured directly by a dedicated yaw rate sensor, is mentioned as far as body motions being inputs to the system. And if the more advanced system in the GTR doesn't have it, the simpler ETS version in the G certainly doesn't have it.
The point is, there are three axes for a reason - why have two sensors in the same plane? The sensor output will capture body motion. All else follows.
Complex algorithms? No, not really - it's highly likely to be empirical (i.e., drive the car in various ways, adjust ATTESA in various ways, monitor sensor output, and develop a fit). 'Tis done all the time.
Quote from: SVT666 on March 22, 2015, 08:20:28 PM
I'm gonna lower my G37 and then get an aftermarket program to keep ATTESA in RWD only unless I press the "snow" button on the centre console. Fuck the sensor.
Sounds like a good plan - should go well.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 22, 2015, 09:21:40 PM
Sounds like a good plan - should go well.
Yep, it has for thousands of people so I doubt it would be any different for him.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 22, 2015, 09:21:40 PM
Sounds like a good plan - should go well.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 23, 2015, 08:58:44 AM
Yep, it has for thousands of people so I doubt it would be any different for him.
I will be lowering it, but I was joking about the ATTESA programming...unless I can get that programming. Then that would awesome.
Anyway, back to the anemic Civic discussion. Do whatever the fuck you want Sporty. My SVT Focus was the most fun DD I have ever had, so stiffening it up some is a great idea.
Quote from: SVT666 on March 23, 2015, 09:37:51 AM
I will be lowering it, but I was joking about the ATTESA programming...unless I can get that programming. Then that would awesome.
Assuming it works on G37s, that aftermarket ATTESA controller gives manual adjustment of the torque split. Might be able to manually dial it to all rear.
I heart this thread.
Quote from: MX793 on March 23, 2015, 09:42:16 AM
Assuming it works on G37s, that aftermarket ATTESA controller gives manual adjustment of the torque split. Might be able to manually dial it to all rear.
Cool.
I think I've learned a lot on this thread.
Quote from: SVT666 on March 23, 2015, 09:39:42 AM
Anyway, back to the anemic Civic discussion. Do whatever the fuck you want Sporty. My SVT Focus was the most fun DD I have ever had, so stiffening it up some is a great idea.
O u know Im gonna do me regardless.
I had a little fun Saturday. Dropped my wife off at the airport and then got on an offramp ahead of an 05 ish Mustang GT convertible. I left him. Would have been even worse if the tires had some grip, but the chassis was balanced enough that I could make decent pace and have an exact feel for the edge of grip. W/summer 225s and a decent suspension this thing will absolutely rip in turns.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 23, 2015, 11:41:51 AM
O u know Im gonna do me regardless.
I had a little fun Saturday. Dropped my wife off at the airport and then got on an offramp ahead of an 05 ish Mustang GT convertible. I left him. Would have been even worse if the tires had some grip, but the chassis was balanced enough that I could make decent pace and have an exact feel for the edge of grip. W/summer 225s and a decent suspension this thing will absolutely rip in turns.
No offense sporty but he/she wasn't trying or can't drive, no way a civic hangs with an 05 and up mustang GT in the straights or corners.
BTW this thread has been epic!
Memoirs of a honda fanboy.
:lol:
Quote from: SVT32V on March 23, 2015, 07:50:25 PM
No offense sporty but he/she wasn't trying or can't drive, no way a civic hangs with an 05 and up mustang GT in the straights or corners.
BTW this thread has been epic!
Hey that's the same way wagon has beaten Audis around corners, it still kinda counts...
Quote from: SVT666 on March 23, 2015, 09:37:51 AM
I will be lowering it, but I was joking about the ATTESA programming...unless I can get that programming. Then that would awesome.
So what exactly are you looking for? Beyond ATTESA/VSD issues, the G37X with 18" wheels already has a good dose of firmness and road noise (and handling performance). It also has a ride height ~0.5" taller than the RWD sedan. Why I'm not exactly sure but I do know the front axle runs through the oil pan. Could have to do with that or drive line angles or just clearance in general.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 23, 2015, 10:46:05 PM
So what exactly are you looking for? Beyond ATTESA/VSD issues, the G37X with 18" wheels already has a good dose of firmness and road noise (and handling performance). It also has a ride height ~0.5" taller than the RWD sedan. Why I'm not exactly sure but I do know the front axle runs through the oil pan. Could have to do with that or drive line angles or just clearance in general.
Tighter and sportier handling and a sportier appearance. The G has good handling already, but there is too much body roll in the corners and the wheel gaps are huge. Also, if you select the right dampers, you can cut down on the road noise.
Quote from: SVT32V on March 23, 2015, 07:50:25 PM
No offense sporty but he/she wasn't trying or can't drive, no way a civic hangs with an 05 and up mustang GT in the straights or corners.
BTW this thread has been epic!
Corners only, he culo blasted me on the straights, and yea he couldnt drive.
This was payback for when that old dude in the other Mustang rag top rekt me on a different on ramp on the bike. Had me like 'yo wtf'
And my threads are always quality bro
I can see the Civic steady-state out cornering a vert GT. Not that difficult IMO. Much lighter and the vert.... well, it's a vert.
most folks with RWD rarely test the traction limits and fear corners. That's just my observation.
There's a couple 280deg-turn onramps I take regularly and I have rarely found anyone I couldn't tailgate or who could tailgate me- in my 18yr old car with probably the original suspension...! :confused:
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on March 24, 2015, 09:41:23 AM
I can see the Civic steady-state out cornering a vert GT. Not that difficult IMO. Much lighter and the vert.... well, it's a vert.
Wasn't the Civic Type R Mugen one of the fastest cars (FWD aside) around a track not that long ago? That's basically Sporty's car with more HP and more aggressive suspension.
Yup, Type R Mugen's are running down Koenigsegg's all over the place.
At least that's what the highly impartial Best Motoring told me.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on March 24, 2015, 09:56:07 AM
most folks with RWD rarely test the traction limits and fear corners. That's just my observation.
There's a couple 280deg-turn onramps I take regularly and I have rarely found anyone I couldn't tailgate or who could tailgate me- in my 18yr old car with probably the original suspension...! :confused:
I got my back tires to squeal through an intersection two days ago. Was turning left and it was completely empty so I went through at 45-50 mph. Tried to get some oversteer but the tires still had some grip. Next time I'll have to try 60 mph. :lol:
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on March 24, 2015, 09:56:07 AM
most folks with RWD rarely test the traction limits and fear corners. That's just my observation.
There's a couple 280deg-turn onramps I take regularly and I have rarely found anyone I couldn't tailgate or who could tailgate me- in my 18yr old car with probably the original suspension...! :confused:
The overwhelming majority of people don't take on-ramps at max cornering speeds. :rolleyes:
Quote from: SVT666 on March 24, 2015, 10:49:57 AM
The overwhelming majority of people don't take on-ramps at max cornering speeds. :rolleyes:
And thank God for that. I very rarely if ever do that on public roads. Maybe on very slow corners to get the tail out a bit for some fun. That's it. The risk is too high. On the track, every corner is a limit corner (to the best I can at least).
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on March 24, 2015, 11:18:11 AM
And thank God for that. I very rarely if ever do that on public roads. Maybe on very slow corners to get the tail out a bit for some fun. That's it. The risk is too high. On the track, every corner is a limit corner (to the best I can at least).
Public roads is the only place I can drive fast. The closest track is 4 hours away. I don't do it with other traffic of course or in a dangerous manner.
Quote from: 2o6 on March 24, 2015, 10:03:15 AM
Wasn't the Civic Type R Mugen one of the fastest cars (FWD aside) around a track not that long ago? That's basically Sporty's car with more HP and more aggressive suspension.
Mugens are pretty hardcore compared to a stock Civic.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on March 24, 2015, 11:18:11 AM
And thank God for that. I very rarely if ever do that on public roads. Maybe on very slow corners to get the tail out a bit for some fun. That's it. The risk is too high. On the track, every corner is a limit corner (to the best I can at least).
Your cars have super high limits though. I can see that. There is a diverging diamond exchange to get off the highway to my house and the off ramp is a left hander bound by a wall on the outside. Couple days ago I hit that turn so fast :facepalm: zero margin for error. Next year once we are settled in the house I definitely need to hit the track. Only about 90 minutes away. I think Road Atlanta is like 3 hours away.
Quote from: SVT666 on March 24, 2015, 11:33:17 AM
Mugens are pretty hardcore compared to a stock Civic.
The platform is the same though. Theres no Mugen equivalent GTIs or Sentras or w/e...
Quote from: SVT666 on March 24, 2015, 10:49:57 AM
The overwhelming majority of people don't take on-ramps at max cornering speeds. :rolleyes:
:lol:
I've driven this car for 5yrs now, and have gotten progressively more aggressive. Never a hint of oversteer so far, i'm very used to the car. Also, it's got the cheapest rubber reputable shops will sell, so they squeal pretty good before any hint of traction loss.
Even when wet, I've been able to get about 55-60mph on the 45mph corners. Dry I can do 65mph..
---------- ----------------------- ------------------------
What KILLS me is the fear people have of the right pedal- merging in 65mph speed limit with a LOOOONG
STRAIGHT onramp and they're still only doing 50-55mph in 70mph traffic.
That's because they're scared of merging. I have seen people stop at the end of the lane with their blinker on waiting for traffic to let up.
The only right way to merge onto the highway is pedal to the metal at the top of 3rd gear.
Quote from: SVT666 on March 24, 2015, 12:10:59 PM
That's because they're scared of merging. I have seen people stop at the end of the lane with their blinker on waiting for traffic to let up.
I want to take away their keys. Right then. And just fling them into the bushes so they are never found again.
Quote from: thecarnut on March 24, 2015, 12:16:45 PM
The only right way to merge onto the highway is pedal to the metal at the top of 3rd gear.
In my car, that still pretty damn slow
Quote from: thecarnut on March 24, 2015, 12:16:45 PM
The only right way to merge onto the highway is pedal to the metal at the top of 3rd gear.
Yea I'm usually looking for my merge spot damn near before I get on the onramp
V8 power = I can be going 40, find a gap, and claim it at 70-75 mph in half a second. :praise:
Quote from: hotrodalex on March 24, 2015, 01:55:06 PM
V8 power = I can be going 40, find a gap, and claim it at 70-75 mph in half a second. :praise:
No you can't.
Lol obviously that was a bit of an exaggeration. But a manual transmission and pooprod V8 makes for fantastic passing power and gap-shooting ability. The powerband is in a much more accessible place - I'm at peak torque at highway speeds.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 24, 2015, 11:37:20 AM
The platform is the same though. Theres no Mugen equivalent GTIs or Sentras or w/e...
So apparently a base lancer with some coilovers and sways is a legitimate performance threat because EVO?
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 24, 2015, 02:41:00 PM
So apparently a base lancer with some coilovers and sways is a legitimate performance threat because EVO?
:rockon:
Quote from: thecarnut on March 24, 2015, 12:16:45 PM
The only right way to merge onto the highway is pedal to the metal at the top of 3rd gear.
Yeah, with 150 bhp it is.
:evildude:
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on March 24, 2015, 02:50:22 PM
Yeah, with 150 bhp it is.
:evildude:
Hey! I have 190. :rage: :lol:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 24, 2015, 02:41:00 PM
So apparently a base lancer with some coilovers and sways is a legitimate performance threat because EVO?
Performance threat to wat? Why are you in your emotions like this, I never said these things.
Lancer/EVO is irrelevant to Civic discussion, you can't make a base Lancer AWD. Plus they heavily modify the EVO chassis with spot welds and shit. Type R just has some front bracing and is 50% stiffer than the DC5. Like I said the platform has a lot of potential and support and is pretty good out of the box. Theres examples of whats been done. Why the butthurt
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 24, 2015, 04:33:45 PM
Performance threat to wat? Why are you in your emotions like this, I never said these things.
Lancer/EVO is irrelevant to Civic discussion, you can't make a base Lancer AWD. Plus they heavily modify the EVO chassis with spot welds and shit. Type R just has some front bracing and is 50% stiffer than the DC5. Like I said the platform has a lot of potential and support and is pretty good out of the box. Theres examples of whats been done. Why the butthurt
You could make a base lancer awd just as easily as you could convert a base civic into a type r mugen. Obviously both would bea ridiculous endeavor.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 24, 2015, 05:20:02 PM
You could make a base lancer awd just as easily as you could convert a base civic into a type r mugen. Obviously both would bea ridiculous endeavor.
No
The AWD conversion alone would kill it. A base Lancer has a totally different body shell from an EVO. Type R is just engine, suspension, lite bracing. Its not like the hand built Type Rs of the 90s, that shit was cool but its pointless as the new base structure is strong enough.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on March 24, 2015, 09:41:23 AM
I can see the Civic steady-state out cornering a vert GT. Not that difficult IMO. Much lighter and the vert.... well, it's a vert.
No, the civic has like what 80% of its weight over the front wheels, and skinny tires. A mustang gt will produce better sustained g-force than an EX civic.
The ricer is strong in this thread, one might even predict at this rate it will overshadow the whole epic MX/cougs saga.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 24, 2015, 06:08:04 PM
No
The AWD conversion alone would kill it. A base Lancer has a totally different body shell from an EVO. Type R is just engine, suspension, lite bracing. Its not like the hand built Type Rs of the 90s, that shit was cool but its pointless as the new base structure is strong enough.
You're starting to sound like the 335i guys who roam the M3 forums.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on March 24, 2015, 07:29:45 PM
You're starting to sound like the 335i guys who roam the M3 forums.
I bet
Quote from: SVT32V on March 24, 2015, 06:49:01 PM
No, the civic has like what 80% of its weight over the front wheels, and skinny tires. A mustang gt will produce better sustained g-force than an EX civic.
Only around 60%
im confused as to what we're arguing.
Quote from: 2o6 on March 24, 2015, 07:42:34 PM
Only around 60%
im confused as to what we're arguing.
There are parallel arguments on this thread:
1. Can a Civic outcorner a Mustang GT on an onramp?
2. Can a few modzzzz turn a regular Civic into an all-conquering Type R?
3. Why would anyone trade a 350Z for a Civic?
4. What is the answer to life, the universe and everything?
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on March 24, 2015, 08:27:19 PM
There are parallel arguments on this thread:
1. Can a Civic outcorner a Mustang GT on an onramp?
2. Can a few modzzzz turn a regular Civic into an all-conquering Type R?
3. Why would anyone trade a 350Z for a Civic?
4. What is the answer to life, the universe and everything?
You forgot The ATTESA debate.....
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on March 24, 2015, 08:39:29 PM
You forgot The ATTESA debate.....
Right! Out of my league however.
Not to mention the whole bmw vs vw thing.
Or
Whether or not to postpone the wedding and buy an m5.
Probably better sticky this thread and make all new members be tested on it's contents.
Who am I kidding, we don't have any new members.
...because of threads like this. But threads like this is why I love this place.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 24, 2015, 09:05:46 PM
Not to mention the whole bmw vs vw thing.
Or
Whether or not to postpone the wedding and buy an m5.
We all agreed VW is the superior choice, given the evidence of BMW owners switching en masse to superior GTIs and GLIs.
M5 is postponed, not cancelled.
Sadly, this is all we have, we are stuck with each other. Nobody wants to strap themselves to this train wreck.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on March 24, 2015, 09:23:02 PM
We all agreed VW is the superior choice, given the evidence of BMW owners switching en masse to superior GTIs and GLIs.
M5 is postponed, not cancelled.
Pffft, postponed. I've seen this hundreds of times. Your next vehicle will be an odyssey minivan.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 24, 2015, 09:24:45 PM
Pffft, postponed. I've seen this hundreds of times. Your next vehicle will be an odyssey minivan.
May the lord protect me from that.
M5 is a family car man. X5M is the closest I'd get to utilitarian transport. If I'm broke, E46 320i wagon.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on March 24, 2015, 09:31:52 PM
May the lord protect me from that.
M5 is a family car man. X5M is the closest I'd get to utilitarian transport. If I'm broke, E46 320i wagon.
But see, it doesn't matter what you want anymore. It's what SHE will let you buy. Sorry man, I really am.
Quote from: SVT32V on March 24, 2015, 06:51:22 PM
The ricer is strong in this thread, one might even predict at this rate it will overshadow the whole epic MX/cougs saga.
The S197 is now a ten-year-old car. A higher mileage pre-facelift 'vert with some all-seasons probably won't out-stick a new(ish) Civic in the corners.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 24, 2015, 09:34:25 PM
But see, it doesn't matter what you want anymore. It's what SHE will let you buy. Sorry man, I really am.
:cry:
Bbbbb...but I want to believe!!!
Quote from: GoCougs on March 24, 2015, 09:43:10 PM
The S197 is now a ten-year-old car. A higher mileage pre-facelift 'vert with some all-seasons probably won't out-stick a new(ish) Civic in the corners.
If both are on all-seasons, I'm going to go with the Mustang. Should have wider tires and less understeer. Someone can research skidpad numbers though.
Quote from: SVT32V on March 24, 2015, 06:51:22 PM
The ricer is strong in this thread, one might even predict at this rate it will overshadow the whole epic MX/cougs saga.
Unpossible!
Only contender I have seen was the cougs vs r0tor slapfight in the truck section. :devil:
People seem to be forgetting the most important factor in that on ramp romp... the drivers
Low key I have never met a Mustang V8 auto
convertible driver who wasnt a douche, and by extension prob defines automotive fun by gas pedal mashing.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on March 24, 2015, 08:27:19 PM
There are parallel arguments on this thread:
1. Can a Civic outcorner a Mustang GT on an onramp?
2. Can a few modzzzz turn a regular Civic into an all-conquering Type R?
3. Why would anyone trade a 350Z for a Civic?
4. What is the answer to life, the universe and everything?
These are easy questions that have already been answered to folks who actually read my posts.
1. Sure if the Mustang driver sucks.
2. Sure if the mods are well chosen. The body shells are 99% the same. A Type-R is not modified like an ///M car or Porsche GTx etc.
3. Lower running costs, lower driver fatigue, more practicality to name a few pretty obvious reasons.
4. To clock mad dollas, bust copious nuts and try to be the king troll of CarSPIN
I wounds be surprised if the Civic (or any small car) has more body rigidity than the SN197
I wouldn't, especially compared to the 'very, but that doesn't mean the Civic's limits are higher.
I used to destroy onramp tailgatards in my Aveo too, when you drive a nose heavy econobox, you take your small victories however you can.
sN197 isn't exactly not nose heavy... I also wouldn't be supraised if they're both around the same percentage of front heavy.
I'm not seeing the SN197 Mustsng (a convertible, nonetheless) being a corner carver. The Mustang hasn't really been able to do that until recently
On the same side, body rigidity and chassis stiffness is very high among compact cars. There's a reason why the Civic Type R or Si Mugen, or Focus ST, or RENAULTSPORT. MEgane. are as fast as they are
Idk what we're even arguing here.
People are making drivers cars out to sound incapable on highway onramps
Quote from: 2o6 on March 25, 2015, 09:08:46 AM
Idk what we're even arguing here.
People dont like my tone or preferences, but cant come up with a logical reason to demand that I dont share their views lol.
"U voluntarily + gladly went from a Z to a Civic and that makes me angry, but I cant figure out why"
Like nobody has ever got rid of a sports car for something more practical lmao.
Both a Mustang and Civic would be going stupid fast to reach their limit on an on-ramp. It's just whichever driver is more reckless.
Quote from: hotrodalex on March 25, 2015, 09:18:44 AM
Both a Mustang and Civic would be going stupid fast to reach their limit on an on-ramp. It's just whichever driver is more reckless.
They'd both plow into the guardrail
I was just pointing out the foolishness to compare a base civic to one that has had considerable modifications as just being a good set of springs away from the latter.
But the difference between a Civic Ex - Si - Si Mugen is not a big as Lancer DE vs Evo
Quote from: 2o6 on March 25, 2015, 09:30:26 AM
But the difference between a Civic Ex - Si - Si Mugen is not a big as Lancer DE vs Evo
The lancer to evo change includes unique bodywork, different drivetrain, a different rear subframe and of course massive differences in tuning.
The base civic to mugen type r(which was mentioned) includes unique bodywork(or materials), a different drivetrain, as well as different suspension components(aren't all the control arms aluminum?).
Doesn't sound too different to me.
The point is that both of these have SIGNIFICANT changes from their base models to their range topping performance models. Enough of a difference to make bestowing the performance of the higher models to the base models foolish.
ETA: And let's not move the bar by bringing up the base - si comparison. THat was NOT the original comparison. It was from the base to the Mugen Type R.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 25, 2015, 09:13:25 AM
Like nobody has ever got rid of a sports car for something more practical lmao.
GUILTY! And I wish like hell I hadn't sold my C6 EVERY SINGLE DAY! :cry: :cry: :partyon: :cry: :cry:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 25, 2015, 09:39:58 AM
The lancer to evo change includes unique bodywork, different drivetrain, a different rear subframe and of course massive differences in tuning.
The base civic to mugen type r(which was mentioned) includes unique bodywork(or materials), a different drivetrain, as well as different suspension components(aren't all the control arms aluminum?).
Doesn't sound too different to me.
The point is that both of these have SIGNIFICANT changes from their base models to their range topping performance models. Enough of a difference to make bestowing the performance of the higher models to the base models foolish.
ETA: And let's not move the bar by bringing up the base - si comparison. THat was NOT the original comparison. It was from the base to the Mugen Type R.
Doesn't sound different cause u arent listening/looking into it. Lancer has different floorpan, gas tank and chassis bracing. For example the back pass through on the EVO is much smaller than that of the regular Lancer. All that shit is the same on all the Civic. To change a base Civic to a whatever Civic u can just swap parts out. To change a Lancer to an EVO you have to change the structure of the car. So yeh they are actually pretty different in scope. Mugen Civic Type R doesnt have any structural mods either, just more parts. So no, Lancer to EVO is not comparable, no goalpost moving necessary. Why does it bother u so much that someone is enthusiastic about some econocar platform? Just let it be.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on March 25, 2015, 10:06:17 AM
GUILTY! And I wish like hell I hadn't sold my C6 EVERY SINGLE DAY! :cry: :cry: :partyon: :cry: :cry:
Im surprised u sold it. Im entering a new stage in life though. Z cant hold a baby seat. U on the other hand have multiple whips and a kid who can drive themselves. I think the G8 will turn out to be a collector item anyway, C6s are a dime a dozen.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 25, 2015, 10:19:22 AM
Doesn't sound different cause u arent listening/looking into it. Lancer has different floorpan, gas tank and chassis bracing. For example the back pass through on the EVO is much smaller than that of the regular Lancer. All that shit is the same on all the Civic. To change a base Civic to a whatever Civic u can just swap parts out. To change a Lancer to an EVO you have to change the structure of the car. So yeh they are actually pretty different in scope. Mugen Civic Type R doesnt have any structural mods either, just more parts. So no, Lancer to EVO is not comparable, no goalpost moving necessary. Why does it bother u so much that someone is enthusiastic about some econocar platform? Just let it be.
But do you really need to change the floorpan to get the same performance as the Evo?
"To save weight, aluminium is used extensively and bonded with adhesive instead of welded"
Those are very fundamental chassis changes that are not just "bolting parts on"
but whatever, honda fanboys have never been known to yield to logic so I might as well be arguing with char or cougs.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on March 25, 2015, 10:06:17 AM
GUILTY! And I wish like hell I hadn't sold my C6 EVERY SINGLE DAY! :cry: :cry: :partyon: :cry: :cry:
I'm sure that GSXR makes it easy to forget. :lol:
Wait, what? A civic can't out corner a mustang if the driver sucks. We're talking about the vehicles themselves. This is driver irrelevant.
If what you're saying is true, an Odyssey can out perform a 918 spyder on the track...if the 918 is driven by a 3 year old. :lol:
Quote from: MrH on March 25, 2015, 12:08:21 PM
Wait, what? A civic can't out corner a mustang is the driver sucks. We're talking about the vehicles themselves. This is driver irrelevant.
If what you're saying is true, an Odyssey can out perform a 918 spyder on the track...if the 918 is driven by a 3 year old. :lol:
That first sentence is worded very awkwardly. And we're talking SN197 Mustang
Quote from: 2o6 on March 25, 2015, 12:17:02 PM
That first sentence is worded very awkwardly. And we're talking SN197 Mustang
Those cars are pretty capable in higher trim, so that chassis is nothing to balk at.
2005 GT vert: 0.83 g skidpad
2008 Civic EX: 0.81g
I'm honestly not sure what we're arguing about
Quote from: 2o6 on March 25, 2015, 12:31:38 PM
I'm honestly not sure what we're arguing about
I was just pointing out that with a few bolt ons that mustang can compete with the best of them.
Quote from: 2o6 on March 25, 2015, 09:01:57 AM
sN197 isn't exactly not nose heavy... I also wouldn't be supraised if they're both around the same percentage of front heavy.
I'm not seeing the SN197 Mustsng (a convertible, nonetheless) being a corner carver. The Mustang hasn't really been able to do that until recently
On the same side, body rigidity and chassis stiffness is very high among compact cars. There's a reason why the Civic Type R or Si Mugen, or Focus ST, or RENAULTSPORT. MEgane. are as fast as they are
I think we're on the same page and the operative word in your post I responded to was misspelled.
Quote from: hotrodalex on March 25, 2015, 10:27:36 AM
But do you really need to change the floorpan to get the same performance as the Evo?
I guess not, if u are OK with having the driveshaft going through the cabin :huh:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 25, 2015, 01:10:09 PM
I guess not, if u are OK with having the driveshaft going through the cabin :huh:
ehh nbd :lol:
Quote from: 2o6 on March 25, 2015, 09:01:57 AM
sN197 isn't exactly not nose heavy... I also wouldn't be supraised if they're both around the same percentage of front heavy.
I'm not seeing the SN197 Mustsng (a convertible, nonetheless) being a corner carver. The Mustang hasn't really been able to do that until recently
On the same side, body rigidity and chassis stiffness is very high among compact cars. There's a reason why the Civic Type R or Si Mugen, or Focus ST, or RENAULTSPORT. MEgane. are as fast as they are
No, The SN197 was 54:46, much better than a civic.
The SN197 was always a good handler.
And a garden variety mustang gt would absolutely own all of those cars on any reasonably sized track
Quote from: hotrodalex on March 25, 2015, 12:29:19 PM
2005 GT vert: 0.83 g skidpad
2008 Civic EX: 0.81g
Well there you have it, but who knows, that 10 yr old car may be trashed.
That car was tested new
Civic is only 60% front weight
Front weight isn't the end all on how good a driver it is or isn't
And a car with 300 HP damn well better be able to outrun a 150 hP civic.
But I'd wager the Civic will match or bettercornering speed than the Mustang
That solid axle isn't that good without mods or going to the now previous gen with remapped suspension.
The Civic (Si and up especially) are goddamn scaplels. The new Type R is the fastest FWD ever on the nurburgring
Solid axle is only a real hindrance on a bumpy track, otherwise it's not a big deal at all.
Shouldn't the lack of axle independence make transitional and any sort of curve with an uneven bank put the solid axle at a severe disadvantage?
Quote from: 2o6 on March 25, 2015, 02:58:37 PM
That solid axle isn't that good without mods or going to the now previous gen with remapped suspension.
The Civic (Si and up especially) are goddamn scaplels. The new Type R is the fastest FWD ever on the nurburgring
S197 was the previous gen (ran from '05-'14). Spring and damper rates were adjusted for the '10 face-lift, but it's otherwise the same suspension design in the '05 as was in the '14.
Quote from: 2o6 on March 25, 2015, 03:20:44 PM
Shouldn't the lack of axle independence make transitional and any sort of curve with an uneven bank put the solid axle at a severe disadvantage?
Assuming "transition" means transitioning from a left turn to a right turn, solid axle is at no great disadvantage to an IRS.
Solid axles do not undergo any camber change as the suspension compresses. Struts, wishbones, and multi-links do. As far as "variable" banked corners (where the banking is steeper at bottom than top, or vice-versa), an IRS doesn't have any real advantage there either. Wheel camber on an IRS (excluding a pure trailing arm setup, which I don't think anyone has used in 25 years) is a function of suspension compression, not road surface. They won't follow a variable-camber road surface and keep the tire tread flat to the road any more than the live axle will.
The biggest downfall of the live axle is uneven bumps (bump struck by the wheel on one end of the axle but not the other). These tend to upset the chassis as a bump hit by the wheel on one side will upset the wheel on the other side, changing the wheel camber (albeit briefly) at a minimum. This causes the back end to "dance around" rather than staying more firmly planted. Increased unsprung mass also affects ride quality. On a smooth track or road surface, there is effectively zero disadvantage for a live axle.
I thought live axles had problems with location in travel... thats why mods like Watts link upgrades (to keep motion vertical) are popular
As the axle loads up the car is shifting laterally.... thats no bueno
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 25, 2015, 10:21:34 AM
Im surprised u sold it. Im entering a new stage in life though. Z cant hold a baby seat. U on the other hand have multiple whips and a kid who can drive themselves. I think the G8 will turn out to be a collector item anyway, C6s are a dime a dozen.
I think so too. But I don't think I'll be keeping it. We'll see how things turn out.
Quote from: thecarnut on March 25, 2015, 11:00:32 AM
I'm sure that GSXR makes it easy to forget. :lol:
This is true! :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 25, 2015, 05:39:54 PM
I thought live axles had problems with location in travel... thats why mods like Watts link upgrades (to keep motion vertical) are popular
As the axle loads up the car is shifting laterally.... thats no bueno
Lateral shift due to a Panhard bar is pretty minimal. I get the slightest hint of lateral motion sensation only went going over very large bumps (large speed bumps, very rough railroad track crossings). You're talking about a ~50" Panhard bar sitting at a ~10-degree angle when the suspension is at full extension (car jacked up with wheels off the ground). That's only like .75" total possible lateral movement.
Quote from: MX793 on March 25, 2015, 03:57:31 PM
Assuming "transition" means transitioning from a left turn to a right turn, solid axle is at no great disadvantage to an IRS.
Solid axles do not undergo any camber change as the suspension compresses. Struts, wishbones, and multi-links do. As far as "variable" banked corners (where the banking is steeper at bottom than top, or vice-versa), an IRS doesn't have any real advantage there either. Wheel camber on an IRS (excluding a pure trailing arm setup, which I don't think anyone has used in 25 years) is a function of suspension compression, not road surface. They won't follow a variable-camber road surface and keep the tire tread flat to the road any more than the live axle will.
The biggest downfall of the live axle is uneven bumps (bump struck by the wheel on one end of the axle but not the other). These tend to upset the chassis as a bump hit by the wheel on one side will upset the wheel on the other side, changing the wheel camber (albeit briefly) at a minimum. This causes the back end to "dance around" rather than staying more firmly planted. Increased unsprung mass also affects ride quality. On a smooth track or road surface, there is effectively zero disadvantage for a live axle.
Still lots of advantage for IRS even on a smooth track/road such as transition from flat to banked (usually not constant radius) esp. when applying power or braking.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 26, 2015, 11:34:29 AM
Still lots of advantage for IRS even on a smooth track/road such as transition from flat to banked (usually not constant radius) esp. when applying power or braking.
An IRS is generally not going to provide a much better contact patch on uneven radius (concave or bowled) banked turn or surface. Wheel camber is driven by suspension geometry, it doesn't follow the road surface camber. Unless by some happy coincidence the two are the same. A double wishbone (or old school trailing arm) with a constant zero-camber setup will actually be worse than a solid axle on a banked surface, even a conical banked curve.
Quote from: 2o6 on March 25, 2015, 02:56:54 PM
But I'd wager the Civic will match or bettercornering speed than the Mustang
I'd wager it can't, the gt has faster slalom speeds and better 300 ft skidpad, a garden variety civic just isn't that great of a handler vs a mustang GT.
Quote from: 2o6 on March 25, 2015, 02:58:37 PM
That solid axle isn't that good without mods or going to the now previous gen with remapped suspension.
The Civic (Si and up especially) are goddamn scaplels. The new Type R is the fastest FWD ever on the nurburgring
If by scalpel you mean butter knife then OK, have you driven a mustang GT in the last ten yrs? I know you like them but really, a regular civic is nothing to write home about.
It should be noted that pure cornering ability is not the same as chassis behavior, which is normally what we think of when we talk about good handling cars.
Quote from: hotrodalex on March 26, 2015, 07:20:19 PM
It should be noted that pure cornering ability is not the same as chassis behavior, which is normally what we think of when we talk about good handling cars.
Quote from: 2o6 on March 25, 2015, 02:56:54 PM
But I'd wager the Civic will match or bettercornering speed than the Mustang
But the comments here were not about "feel" , this was about actual performance, in which case the mustang wins handily.
:partyon: :popcorn:
Oh my god, no one gives a shit
This forum is jumping the shark
Best. Thread. Ever.
I'm so sad I only get hate from r0tor
Quote from: 2o6 on March 26, 2015, 11:09:30 PM
Oh my god, no one gives a shit
This forum is jumping the shark
If jumping the shark means getting super duper awesome, then yes, it is jumping the shark. :lol:
Why are we talking about type R and Si when its completely not relevant to the civic in the conversation?
Quote from: 2o6 on March 26, 2015, 11:09:30 PM
Oh my god, no one gives a shit
This forum is jumping the shark
You're the one making silly statements. :huh:
Who gives a shit?
Quote from: r0tor on March 27, 2015, 07:28:04 AM
Why are we talking about type R and Si when its completely not relevant to the civic in the conversation?
I should have mentioned Boss 302s and GT350Rs.
A mirage could out handle a Mustank
I don't really like Mustangs, but that's no secret. I also don't like Camaros, either
:pee: https://youtu.be/b0Jl_8caNc8
ITT: 206 says dumb things, gets called out on it, then throws a hissy fit about how shitty this forum is.
Quote from: r0tor on March 27, 2015, 07:28:04 AM
Why are we talking about type R and Si when its completely not relevant to the civic in the conversation?
A base civic is just a
DETUNED Mugen Type R.
Quote from: MX793 on March 26, 2015, 12:13:35 PM
An IRS is generally not going to provide a much better contact patch on uneven radius (concave or bowled) banked turn or surface. Wheel camber is driven by suspension geometry, it doesn't follow the road surface camber. Unless by some happy coincidence the two are the same. A double wishbone (or old school trailing arm) with a constant zero-camber setup will actually be worse than a solid axle on a banked surface, even a conical banked curve.
Sure camber is driven by (smooth) road surface, if you're on a non constant radius bank or crown, especially when transitioning - suspension articulation will be different right to left, which will be an issue for a live axle (= camber changes on one side induces camber changes on the other).
Quote from: thecarnut on March 27, 2015, 08:08:39 AM
ITT: 206 says dumb things, gets called out on it, then throws a hissy fit about how shitty this forum is.
Several people agreed with me
And it just gets stupid with everyone calling each other out ALL THE TIME
It's not even a consistent call out; pretty sure in like two days you'll all be having this same conversation in reverse.
That's what makes this place interesting.
Quote from: 2o6 on March 27, 2015, 09:35:50 AM
Several people agreed with me
And it just gets stupid with everyone calling each other out ALL THE TIME
It's not even a consistent call out; pretty sure in like two days you'll all be having this same conversation in reverse.
U dont have to post here
Thats not a command/threat/edict, just an idea
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 27, 2015, 09:20:58 AM
A base civic is just a DETUNED Mugen Type R.
Oh yea.. keep forgetting that. Just like a standard Golf is a detuned TT-RS
Quote from: r0tor on March 27, 2015, 10:30:03 AM
Oh yea.. keep forgetting that. Just like a standard Golf is a detuned TT-RS
You have to look at it through the eyes of a fanboy.
Remember the jetta's with half a lambo v10?
Quote from: r0tor on March 27, 2015, 10:30:03 AM
Oh yea.. keep forgetting that. Just like a standard Golf is a detuned TT-RS
Nah brah, standard Golf is a detuned Veyron!
Quote from: 2o6 on March 27, 2015, 09:35:50 AM
Several people agreed with me
And they were also wrong.
Without threads like this every once in a while the Spin gets a little boring.
I don't understand why it's interesting to argue to practically no end.
Quote from: SVT32V on March 27, 2015, 10:41:29 AM
And they were also wrong.
who the fuck wants this bullshit?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 27, 2015, 09:57:25 AM
U dont have to post here
Thats not a command/threat/edict, just an idea
:lol:
It's a sporty-buys-a-Honda thread. Everyone should know what this thread is going to be like.
Quote from: Secret Chimp on March 27, 2015, 01:16:39 PM
I don't understand why it's interesting to argue to practically no end.
who the fuck wants this bullshit?
Don't be soooo afraid to engage.
Obviously some want it, since it happens with regularity.
Quote from: MrH on March 27, 2015, 01:33:26 PM
:lol:
It's a sporty-buys-a-Honda thread. Everyone should know what this thread is going to be like.
Its going about as well as I wanted it to.
Sold the Z last nite. Man. As much as a PITA it was to commute in sometimes, that was one sexy ass car. Seeing it (adn the hot little blonde who bought it) drive away.... Im not gonna lie, for a second I missed it. I swear, it looks like a little baby Vantage in profile. But now, on to more responsible, cheaper to run, more practical, quieter things, and hopefully a home. Then in a year or two... well, we will see how this side gig does for me this year. I have plans :)
Quote from: Secret Chimp on March 27, 2015, 01:16:39 PM
I don't understand why it's interesting to argue to practically no end.
who the fuck wants this bullshit?
Its not arguing, it is simple straightforwardly correcting a false view based on empirical data.
Quote from: SVT32V on March 27, 2015, 02:00:01 PM
Its not arguing, it is simple straightforwardly correcting a false view based on empirical data.
(http://planetsave.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/someone-is-wrong.jpg)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 27, 2015, 02:03:35 PM
(http://planetsave.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/someone-is-wrong.jpg)
this
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 27, 2015, 01:58:58 PM
Its going about as well as I wanted it to.
Sold the Z last nite. Man. As much as a PITA it was to commute in sometimes, that was one sexy ass car. Seeing it (adn the hot little blonde who bought it) drive away.... Im not gonna lie, for a second I missed it. I swear, it looks like a little baby Vantage in profile. But now, on to more responsible, cheaper to run, more practical, quieter things, and hopefully a home. Then in a year or two... well, we will see how this side gig does for me this year. I have plans :)
Sorry to hear. Glad it sounds like you were happy with the sale.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 27, 2015, 09:35:05 AM
Sure camber is driven by (smooth) road surface, if you're on a non constant radius bank or crown, especially when transitioning - suspension articulation will be different right to left, which will be an issue for a live axle (= camber changes on one side induces camber changes on the other).
Yes, suspension articulation will be different left to right in the transition, but that doesn't necessarily translate into the "correct" camber to follow the road surface on both wheels. Many IRS setups increase negative camber (decrease camber?) with suspension compression, but not all (trailing arm being a prime example). And even though camber is increasing, that doesn't mean it's increasing to exactly follow the road surface to keep the tire contact patch flat, though it will be flatter than a live axle on a concave banking. And on a convex (crowned) road surface, your contact patch decreases (you ride more on the edges of the tires) with an IRS that increases negative camber with articulation, meaning you lose contact patch as you're trying to put power down.
In the case of a live axle, as you said, it's going to lose contact patch on all but a conical banking because articulation on one side changes camber on the other. But at the same time, it favors neither concave nor convex/crowned surfaces. You could say that it's equally poor in either case in terms of tire contact patch. IRSes that increase negative camber with compression favor concave bankings.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 27, 2015, 01:58:58 PM
Its going about as well as I wanted it to.
Sold the Z last nite. Man. As much as a PITA it was to commute in sometimes, that was one sexy ass car. Seeing it (adn the hot little blonde who bought it) drive away.... Im not gonna lie, for a second I missed it. I swear, it looks like a little baby Vantage in profile. But now, on to more responsible, cheaper to run, more practical, quieter things, and hopefully a home. Then in a year or two... well, we will see how this side gig does for me this year. I have plans :)
Smart skipping the "hot little blonde" part on your FB post.
Well the Z is gone, so you have a ton of money to put into the civic.
:ohyeah:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 27, 2015, 02:03:35 PM
Ehh, you guys are trying too hard not to backtrack, this is just obfuscation, but if all else fails...
Quote from: hotrodalex on March 27, 2015, 10:36:55 AM
Nah brah, standard Golf is a detuned Veyron!
Shit, how can I be so blind
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on March 27, 2015, 02:52:40 PM
Smart skipping the "hot little blonde" part on your FB post.
Im kickin it with the fellas, u know how we do :partyon:
She was interesting. She had a Scion tC she had sitting on the bumpstops with undersized tires on wide wheels and she wanted something RWD she could drift. Her dad is a dirt track racer. I thought it was all pretty cool. I was not expecting that at all.
Quote from: MX793 on March 27, 2015, 02:27:01 PM
Yes, suspension articulation will be different left to right in the transition, but that doesn't necessarily translate into the "correct" camber to follow the road surface on both wheels. Many IRS setups increase negative camber (decrease camber?) with suspension compression, but not all (trailing arm being a prime example). And even though camber is increasing, that doesn't mean it's increasing to exactly follow the road surface to keep the tire contact patch flat, though it will be flatter than a live axle on a concave banking. And on a convex (crowned) road surface, your contact patch decreases (you ride more on the edges of the tires) with an IRS that increases negative camber with articulation, meaning you lose contact patch as you're trying to put power down.
In the case of a live axle, as you said, it's going to lose contact patch on all but a conical banking because articulation on one side changes camber on the other. But at the same time, it favors neither concave nor convex/crowned surfaces. You could say that it's equally poor in either case in terms of tire contact patch. IRSes that increase negative camber with compression favor concave bankings.
It's not necessarily about "correct" camber - it's about not letting one side induce motion on the other.
Which is only a big problem on bumpy surfaces.
Lots of race cars with a live axle that are just as fast/faster than IRS cars. Lots of other factors are more important.
We should dump this car on cheap coils and make it ride like shit and handle no better then the stock Z!
Quote from: Char on April 23, 2015, 09:53:06 AM
We should dump this car on cheap coils and make it ride like shit and handle no better then the stock Z!
I think he was going to buy a cold air intake first and then have it dynoed six or seven times for hundreds of dollars first. I'm sure once he gets that nailed down he'll move to the suspension.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on April 24, 2015, 07:46:49 AM
I think he was going to buy a cold air intake first and then have it dynoed six or seven times for hundreds of dollars first. I'm sure once he gets that nailed down he'll move to the suspension.
You ricer trolls sure stick together.
:lol:
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on April 24, 2015, 07:58:04 AM
You ricer trolls sure stick together.
:lol:
Shouldn't you be out shopping for a new beenie and a lanyard to go with your upcoming VW purchase?
Quote from: Char on April 23, 2015, 09:53:06 AM
We should dump this car on cheap coils and make it ride like shit and handle no better then the stock Z!
:zzz:
Note the post date gap too. Chartard cares more about this build than I do
Quote from: Char on April 23, 2015, 09:53:06 AM
We should dump this car on cheap coils and make it ride like shit and handle no better then the stock Z!
nah, totally needs a tint and a new air intake box. don't forget the before and after dynos
Fukin trollin. Cant keep up with what is actually going on. List what is done to car now.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on April 28, 2015, 11:51:21 AM
Fukin trollin. Cant keep up with what is actually going on. List what is done to car now.
Cut coils and installed shocker sticker.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on April 28, 2015, 12:06:18 PM
Cut coils and installed shocker sticker.
You can't just cut coils. Springs are designed to work as a unit. One side of the spring knows if the other side is still there, just like your right and left brain. Once a piece is cut off, the whole thing is no longer a spring, but a piece of curly metal tangled up in your suspension. It's better just to remove them altogether.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on April 28, 2015, 12:17:21 PM
You can't just cut coils. Springs are designed to work as a unit. One side of the spring knows if the other side is still there, just like your right and left brain. Once a piece is cut off, the whole thing is no longer a spring, but a piece of curly metal tangled up in your suspension. It's better just to remove them altogether.
He plugged them into his computer and reprogrammed them to know they are cut.
Don't be such a noob.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on April 28, 2015, 11:51:21 AM
Fukin trollin. Cant keep up with what is actually going on. List what is done to car now.
Car is still bone stock. It still surprises me. It goes into little 4 wheel drifts if you trail brake aggressively enough. It's actually pretty fun.
For now all I am thinking is
Lighting- Murano projector retrofit
Audio- 10" sub, tund box, amp
Brakes- TSX front brakes with Brembo blanks
Tires/wheels- some cheap 17s with Michelin PSS in 225/45
Suspension- ST coilovers, RSB, sperical bearings & under body + strut tower bracing up front
Might do a little cold air intake for fun but only thing I would consider doing to the engine for real is turbo and I will prob have kids by the time I could save up for that. Still tho that list is not bad, it will be a pretty fun daily driver. House is eating all the monies though so all I will prob be able to do this year are the headlights (projectors are sitting in a box somewhere) and the sub. Nothing exciting at all
Welcome to the " want but won't ever have" club. ;-)
Man with all this fcking heat.... I kind of wish I had got one of these without a sunroof in a lighter color. AC needs a charge I think.... can barely keep up. Still having fun though. I really love how this thing trail brakes. It's kind of amazing. Hope I don't fuck that up when I upgrade the brakes and suspension and shit.
Popping the ricer cherry on this one. Ordered a CAI but I will run a K&N cone filter on it. Just wanted the piping. Also ordered HID projectors. TRS was having a sale.
Gonna order a suspension for my bday I think. Or maybe in August. I will probably do Tein S Tech with some assortment of Konis to start. Gotta figure out what I wanna do with the tires/wheels/brakes. I can prob get away with stockers and the Legend double piston brake upgrade up front. I just don't know if it's worth going up to 17s. Sidewall height on 225/50-16 vs 225/45-17 is pretty much the same and obviously 16s would be lighter. Tires for 16s aren't much cheaper. IDK I will figure it out.
:muffin: Ricing begins this weekend....
:popcorn:
Pop that intake on and go hunting.
Get us some street race kill videos.
What color neons are you going to run underneath? You going full or just under the rockerz?
Pics or it didn't happen.
Im gonna get the K&N filter tomorrow morning and hopefully get it in before it gets too hot.
I got it in but it was still way too hot. Summarized impressions:
Pros: Added just the kind of growl I wanted. It reminds me a lot of my new puppy. She is as gentle as can be, but sometimes she lets out little growls like when we play tug of war that remind me, "o yea she is a descendant of a grey wolf". The intake gives it just that little extra amount of throat to further increase the level of driving engagement.
Butt dyno has registered some gains. Slight stumble at 2200 but otherwise it seems to pull a little stronger. Feels a good bit stronger with the A/C on.
Cons: Fitment was HORRIBLE. None of the bracketry lined up with stock holes. Removing the bumper was a bit of a pain but nothing terrible. Would go a lot faster next time. Cleaning that K&N is gonna be a PITA. Filter changes now require removing the bumper which sucks.
Not really stressing it and I'm not gonna upgrade to an Injen or anything. I'm saving up for a turbo :mask: This should do for now. Just gonna monitor things to make sure nothing is fucked up. So far I'm pleased though. Not bad for $90 and literally 3lb of sweat.
Man I am itching to drive it. Looking forward to the commute tomorrow.
Idk about the 1.8, but in the Si the only CAIs that actually do anything are 3.5' fatties that you need to relocate the battery for. The rest are pretty much just noise.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yea I dont think this yielded much real power but it sounds cool and feels a little faster. Folks have seen 3-5WHP gains which is a lot on a motor that dynos ~110WHP stock.
Quote from: Xer0 on July 12, 2015, 04:09:53 PM
Idk about the 1.8, but in the Si the only CAIs that actually do anything are 3.5' fatties that you need to relocate the battery for. The rest are pretty much just noise.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Shhhh let him live out his little ricer fantasies in peace :lol:
I feel 20 again :lol:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCcxz29a2GY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCcxz29a2GY)
Aw shit. Vtec is kicking in yo!!!
:lol:
Removing bumper to change air filter? No thanks.
Quote from: mzziaz on July 12, 2015, 10:55:33 PM
Removing bumper to change air filter? No thanks.
You mean add an intake into the airbox
Quote from: 2o6 on July 12, 2015, 11:04:38 PM
You mean add an intake into the airbox
Adding the intake has resulted in him needing to take the bumper off to change the filter.
Simple solution, run the car without a bumper.
No way dude I will need the aero and downforce.
You can bolt a wing on the hood for downforce.
That's gonna kill my top speed though. This thing should be good for at least 125
I lol'd
Been getting abysmal gas mileage. 26-27 mpg last few tanks. Checked tire pressure.... 27psi all around :facepalm: pumped them to 32 cold. Hopefully that gets me the 30-31 I deserve
Tires feel much better. Definitely grippier. Again though hoping the reduced slop will help my mileage. Fuelly average is 31 for my engine but I think I can even get more with all my highway driving. Still better than the 19-21 I was getting in the Z though.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 13, 2015, 09:06:33 PM
I deserve
Typical Honda fanboy entitlement mentality.
:lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 14, 2015, 06:59:45 AM
Tires feel much better. Definitely grippier. Again though hoping the reduced slop will help my mileage. Fuelly average is 31 for my engine but I think I can even get more with all my highway driving. Still better than the 19-21 I was getting in the Z though.
Huh, I thought deflating tires a bit was considered good for grip (but bad for mileage)?
re FBC: i lol'd
Raises straight line grip but it compromises sidewall integrity which kills lateral grip. Only other time lower than normal temps are good is if you are doing a track day or something where you are getting the tires super hot. For the street a cold pressure ~2PSI below the recommended or ideal pressure is probably best.
Proper tire pressure works and unricer driving techniques work. Been shifting to 5th as early as possible and I am running 32 PSI in front and 33 in the back. Fixed the tire pressures at about 150 miles into the last tank.... got 29 MPG. I think next tank I should be able to break 30.
(http://i.imgur.com/CTiOIz2.jpg)
Looks like rota makes a pretty nice rpf1 knockoff.
If I get new wheels I want light ones. Kosei K1s in 17s and Rota SVNs are pretty light and cheap. $$$ is tite like prom nite right now though. Most I will be able to do this year is suspension and maybe brakes. Stock tire size is 205/55R16.... I feel like that's too tall to warrant getting a decent tire for. That's the only reason I'd go to new wheels.
205/55 is not too tall. It is almost perfect if you intend to drive on real roads.
Or just get 225/50/16's...
Stock wheels are 6x5" wide... 225s on that is doable but a bit much. I had too wide tires on my last Maxima and it felt and looked really weird. Rota SDR/SDX/Titans in 17x7 are pretty light and affordable. With some Ventus RS-3s I should be OK.
It's been rainy AF lately but that has enabled me to safely see what this thing's at the limit balance and general feel is like. I still really like it. It does understeer, particularly on downhill turns, which is weird because my bike seems to grip even harder on downhills. Steering gives a good amount of feedback on front tire grip though. It weights up nicely up to the limit and then goes limp once you go past. Makes it really easy to manage traction. Stock tires really really suck though. I imagine with better tires and solid balljoints feedback will skyrocket.
Aren't RS3's a bit much for a daily driven economy car?
You'll need a new set every year.
U may be right. I am currently doing about 20-22K miles per year as well. I had some Kuhmo Ecstas on my first Accord in the stock size (195/60R15) I was super happy with, like 12 years ago lol. Probably more practical to just get a tire that's better than the POS on my car now. With the suspension it should all work a lot better.
Yeah I'd get V12 Evos or DZ102's or something. I wouldn't do RS-3's on a DD Civic.
I have RS-3's on my car because it sees like 3k miles a year now.
I suppose if I ever go turbo I will just get regular tires in a much wider size
Fucking Honda. Been suffering without reliable A/C for a while.... did some research, common problem is a failed compressor clutch relay. This is after having spent $1K for a compressor replacement early this year. For $6 my A/C works like a charm. I just need to get the charge dropped back to spec.... I am almost certain it's overcharged.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 14, 2015, 05:59:00 AM
Fucking Honda. Been suffering without reliable A/C for a while.... did some research, common problem is a failed compressor clutch relay. This is after having spent $1K for a compressor replacement early this year. For $6 my A/C works like a charm. I just need to get the charge dropped back to spec.... I am almost certain it's overcharged.
Get an old bottle and try to attach it, some will leak out................. :mask:
I have a connector with a "gauge".... I will release some R-134A to get the pressure where it's supposed to be. It was definitely high when I checked it last.
Just some updates, not like anybody cares but w/e. Finally got the A/C fixed; had a hole in the condenser. Much more livable. Still getting ~29-30 MPG which is cool, and the drop in temperature has really put some pep in this thing's step.
Due for new tires which I will do at the end of the year before I have to get it inspected in January. I need new brakes and fluid too. I think I will just keep the brakes stock and use better parts for now. Only thing I am kind of torn on is suspension. Good coilovers are only like $300 more than springs/shocks. Roads are smooth here too so I can get a little low. But I feel like big suspension mods are overkill. IDK. I do want to get some new camera gear too so that $$$ would go a long way. Either way I'm getting some shit done for Xmas.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 16, 2015, 08:30:41 AM
not like anybody cares but w/e.
:rolleyes:
Don't be a drama queen.
What are "good" coilovers? Please tell me you're getting Racelands :lol:
Suspension Techniques Speedtech coilovers.... basically unbranded KW V1s for half the price. It's either those or Tein S Techs and Koni STR.Ts. I am feeling like the coilovers will ride better up front as I am pretty sure they adjust for height and preload separately. W/DWS06s, better pads + rotors, balljoint spacers and camber bolts this thing will handle pretty well
I wouldn't put Racelands on Klackamas' car :lol:
I do have a question though. Why can't shock companies make a shock that handles higher spring rates and less travel? Isn't it just a matter of shaft length and valving? My only gripe with my car's damping as it is is the low speed stuff is a little sloppy. That could just be wear.
Just do the coilovers.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 17, 2015, 04:30:27 PM
Proper tire pressure works and unricer driving techniques work. Been shifting to 5th as early as possible and I am running 32 PSI in front and 33 in the back. Fixed the tire pressures at about 150 miles into the last tank.... got 29 MPG. I think next tank I should be able to break 30.
FWD cars should have higher PSI at the front, and you should pretty much follow the sticker on the door for your pressures.
Quote from: SVT666 on November 16, 2015, 11:04:47 PM
FWD cars should have higher PSI at the front, and you should pretty much follow the sticker on the door for your pressures.
But if he has higher pressures in rear, tail slides easier.
Quote from: SVT666 on November 16, 2015, 11:04:47 PM
FWD cars should have higher PSI at the front, and you should pretty much follow the sticker on the door for your pressures.
I run higher in the front too. Much more side load so the higher psi keeps it from rolling over.
Got my DWS06s. Pretty wet around here and they still feel great. My front tires were ballllld. Man this thing will be a riot once I get the suspension on.
Can confirm excellent wet traction. And dry traction. Even autocross traction, for an all season.
I'm just bummed it looks like my driving style will chew through a front tire in a year :facepalm: I am pretty sure all 4 of the tires were close to brand new.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 23, 2015, 05:35:44 PM
I'm just bummed it looks like my driving style will chew through a front tire in a year :facepalm: I am pretty sure all 4 of the tires were close to brand new.
uhhh... rotate? stop trying to do things fwd cars can't do?
What was the treadwear on your last set?
I will have to check when I pull them out of my trunk.
Rotating them would have been a bad idea.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5a0_WQn6r8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5a0_WQn6r8)
Nose-heavy FWD compacts with skinny tires chew through rubber like nobody's business. I was averaging ~20K per set on the Aveo until I said screw it and bought the cheapest, hardest compound I could find.
Ha. Just looked them up. Goodyear Eagle RS-A... 260AA. DWS06s are 560AA :lol: Those Goodyears are the OEM tires. No grip, fast wearing, shit feel... utter crap :lol:
I only went through 2.5 sets of tires in 70K of Accent driving. They wore pretty evenly with occasional ROTATIONS
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 23, 2015, 07:04:06 PM
Ha. Just looked them up. Goodyear Eagle RS-A... 260AA. DWS06s are 560AA :lol: Those Goodyears are the OEM tires. No grip, fast wearing, shit feel... utter crap :lol:
You can't compare UTQG ratings from different manufacturers.
Fuck these tires are amazing.... they have more grip in the wet than my old tires did in the dry.
RS-As aren't particularly good tires. Acceptable dry grip, mediocre wet grip, marginal snow grip, and not very long-lived. Not sure if prices have come down on them, but when I had my Mazda3 (they were the OE tire), they weren't particularly cheap, either.
Hoosiers are pretty good all-around tires
Quote from: MX793 on December 24, 2015, 10:17:48 AM
RS-As aren't particularly good tires. Acceptable dry grip, mediocre wet grip, marginal snow grip, and not very long-lived. Not sure if prices have come down on them, but when I had my Mazda3 (they were the OE tire), they weren't particularly cheap, either.
They are about the same as the DWS06s last I checked. They are the OEM tire for the car which is nutty IMO.
All tires from a brand are not created equal though.... wifey has some Continental something or others and they are awful as well.
Tire tech has come a long way in the past 3 years. Their chemical engineers are doing crazy stuff with rubber compounds to make them stick like glue and still have decent life.
Did some more research into suspension options... definitely going with shocks/springs instead of coilovers. There are shocks by a company called Truhart.... the damping curve is very close to the Koni STR.Ts I want, but the shocks are a good $200 less. They also have a shorter shaft up front which will be great for keeping the car off the bumpstops. And they have a lifetime warranty. So basically I can get my springs and shocks for $400 rather than $650 which is great. I will use some of those savings to get extended lower ball joints up front to keep the lower arm geometry in check. Should work very nicely!!!
Had a fender bender over the summer I still haven't got fixed yet.... just bumped somebody from behind. Need a new bumper and the front pulled a little bit. I just mention that because I have HID projectors waiting to be retrofitted. Looks like some big strides have been made in the realm of plug and play LED bulbs though. Might throw a set of LED bulbs in my wife's headlights since a full retrofit would not be worth it. Only thing besides suspension and headlights I want next year is a new stereo I can operate my phone through, with an amp and new inside speakers. Oh and to cash in on a paint recall... clearcoat is going on my roof and trunk (???). Once all that is in place I will be good for a while.
Only thing I can think of beyond that is digging into the engine and I want to go balls deep with that. I will either have to get custom pistons made or get custom rods made to use B series pistons. Wouldnt be a huge thing as engine blocks are dirt cheap. I'd stroke it out to 2L and leave it be. W/a cam that would be more than enough for a daily driver. And it would give me a few more years with the car. Keep it lighter and more responsive than a turbo setup too.
Wouldn't it just be cheaper and easier to swap a K20 from an RSX or Canadian CSX?
Quote from: MX793 on December 28, 2015, 08:16:56 AM
Wouldn't it just be cheaper and easier to swap a K20 from an RSX or Canadian CSX?
It would probably be cheaper and easier to have bought an 8th gen Si in the first place, but I think Sporty just wants to tinker with this car and see how far he can go before hitting a wall.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah, why not just by an Si?
I didn't even know you could use B series pistons in an R series engine... interesting.
Sounds like a ton of money and work though.
Quote from: Xer0 on December 28, 2015, 09:52:27 AM
It would probably be cheaper and easier to have bought an 8th gen Si in the first place, but I think Sporty just wants to tinker with this car and see how far he can go before hitting a wall.
No wall to hit. This is not my first Honda rodeo. I've driven and owned a lot of DOHC VTEC Hondas.... I just don't like how the smaller displacement ones make power, and the K20 is in there. I could have had one with the same mileage and price but I just didn't like the character of the engine. I haven't driven the 9th gen yet but the 2.4 in that seems like it would be cool. But overall I like the way the SOHC engines make power more. They don't make as much but they make power more naturally. I am years out from that anyway, I will probably get another car before I get that deep into it. But the suspension and stereo are gonna happen in 2016. Plus I would have to do the suspension/stereo/headlights to the Si anyway.
Fuuuaarrrkk I cannot unstick this thing
Commute in was a deluge.... tires were rock solid on all my hard turns.
Spherical bearings up front are only $300 :mask: Overkill? Heard a lot of good reviews and I think I would enjoy the better steering feedback. With a front under brace this thing's front end will be awesome. I might have to track this thing next summer.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 28, 2015, 10:14:43 AM
No wall to hit. This is not my first Honda rodeo. I've driven and owned a lot of DOHC VTEC Hondas.... I just don't like how the smaller displacement ones make power, and the K20 is in there. I could have had one with the same mileage and price but I just didn't like the character of the engine. I haven't driven the 9th gen yet but the 2.4 in that seems like it would be cool. But overall I like the way the SOHC engines make power more. They don't make as much but they make power more naturally. I am years out from that anyway, I will probably get another car before I get that deep into it. But the suspension and stereo are gonna happen in 2016. Plus I would have to do the suspension/stereo/headlights to the Si anyway.
Have you driven any twin cam Hondas with iVTEC (RSX, newer CSi)? That should provide a more natural delivery than old school, stepped VTEC.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 29, 2015, 08:49:19 AM
Fuuuaarrrkk I cannot unstick this thing
Use the handbrake. Or get something with power.
Quote from: MX793 on December 29, 2015, 09:37:06 AM
Have you driven any twin cam Hondas with iVTEC (RSX, newer CSi)? That should provide a more natural delivery than old school, stepped VTEC.
The old school DOHC VTEC motors (especially the B series) switchovers were so amazing.
Quote from: MX793 on December 29, 2015, 09:37:06 AM
Have you driven any twin cam Hondas with iVTEC (RSX, newer CSi)? That should provide a more natural delivery than old school, stepped VTEC.
Yea I tested the CSi when I was shopping for this car. It was faster no doubt but like all the other DOHC VTEC cars I didn't like the way it made speed. Felt like it made the same gs as my car but just pulled them for a little longer. It was pretty loud and a little drony completely stock too.
I think the 9th gen CSi with the 2.4L would be a much better fit for me. I was pissed when it came out and killed the K20 but I get/appreciate it now. High revving engines are great technical achievments that work on the track but I just don't like them on the street. On the flip side the K24 in the 9th gen makes about the same WTQ as my old Maximas, but with more power and like 30% better gas mileage. Aside from the 4 banger vs V6 sound its a no brainer.
Here is a dyno of the 8th vs 9th gen CSi:
(http://sohc.vtec.net/article_files/998268/06_vs_12si.gif)
Avg power, especially in the midrange, is way way higher.
I will probably make that move before tearing into the engine and all that. Especially since all the suspension parts transfer over. I think next time I go to the dealer I will give a 9th gen a test drive.
The 9th gen's K24 has the silly header-in-block design, right?
Quote from: thecarnut on December 29, 2015, 11:40:39 AM
The 9th gen's K24 has the silly header-in-block design, right?
that's not silly, that's efficient
Quote from: thecarnut on December 29, 2015, 11:40:39 AM
The 9th gen's K24 has the silly header-in-block design, right?
Yea, no matter though, will add +20-30 WHP with bolt ons and a tune, and that torque is everywhere
I like tubular headers but w/cams this stupid port engine will do 250WHP no problem. Not really a factor.
Problem with the 9g CSi is that Honda didn't revise the gearing when the went to the larger motor with lower redline. 2nd gear taps out well short of 60 mph, and there's no reason for it to be geared that short.
I would have to see how it actually feels on the road. That 2nd shift only matters for mag times. But a reflash will move the redline up and there are some OEM final drive options.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 29, 2015, 01:55:33 PM
I would have to see how it actually feels on the road. That 2nd shift only matters for mag times. But a reflash will move the redline up and there are some OEM final drive options.
Guy I autocross with who goes to Nationals and won our regional points title 2 years in a row with an 8th gen wouldn't consider a 9th gen when it came time for a replacement. Said the gearing was a big part of that. Ended up getting an FR-S, which is in a significantly faster/harder class.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 29, 2015, 01:55:33 PM
I would have to see how it actually feels on the road. That 2nd shift only matters for mag times. But a reflash will move the redline up and there are some OEM final drive options.
If you're ever in be Chicago area, you can drive mine to get a feel for it. It's a pretty fun little package with enough power for most situations. But yeah, the gearing can be annoying, 2 tops out too soon along with 5 and 6 that practically feel like the same gear.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I could see how gearing could be huge for auto x. I'm guessing there wouldn't be the option to swap out gears in that class (though how would they know? :mask: )
Great thing about the K series is it covered everything from the Element to the Civic Type R with Accords, TSXs and RSXs in between. They even have a kit to convert the 5 speeds to 6 speeds. If I got a 9th gen I would probably tear into the transmission.... they have 4.0 and 4.3 final drives which make speeds sane. 4.058 FD has you doing 80 @ 3K on the highway in 6th and hitting 60 in 2nd no problem. There are a ton of options for individual gears too but I won't fuck with all that. But I think that would be money well spent if the gearing really is that bad. My little performance simulator has 2nd ending at like 52 MPH lmao.
I will def take you up on that offer Xer0. Don't know if I will ever make my way up there though
sooooooo, Why haven't you found the Japanese kit cars and just gone that route ??? :lol:
Responsibilities :(
Cant blow money on car stuff like I used to. I miss it
Quote from: MX793 on December 28, 2015, 08:16:56 AM
Wouldn't it just be cheaper and easier to swap a K20 from an RSX or Canadian CSX?
It would have been cheaper to get an Si.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 04, 2016, 06:26:28 PM
It would have been cheaper to get an Si.
Or, you know, simply keeping the RWD, V6 actual sports car that he had before.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 05, 2016, 09:08:16 AM
Or, you know, simply keeping the RWD, V6 actual sports car that he had before.
Everyone isnt made of $$$$ and going to the race track every weekend. Is there anything keepign the Z would have gained me besides your approval?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 05, 2016, 01:45:44 PM
Everyone isnt made of $$$$ and going to the race track every weekend. Is there anything keepign the Z would have gained me besides your approval?
Not sure why you seem to think you have to go to the track if you own a sports car. Are you not equally as obligated if you hop up a regular car to perform on par with a sports/performance car?
Quote from: MX793 on January 05, 2016, 02:07:58 PM
Not sure why you seem to think you have to go to the track if you own a sports car. Are you not equally as obligated if you hop up a regular car to perform on par with a sports/performance car?
For me, yes, that obligation is there. If I buy something I want to get my money's worth. Buying a sports car and not wringing it out on the track is a waste of money to me.
On the flip side, skewing the ride/handling balance on a street driven economy car more towards the sporty side makes sense. I have a good amount of winding roads near my house and on my commute. But I still need a usable trunk and adult sized back seats. Like I said before had I bought a 6MT G sedan instead of the Z I probably would have kept it. But I am still happier with the Civic over the Z to live with on a daily basis.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 05, 2016, 01:45:44 PM
Everyone isnt made of $$$$ and going to the race track every weekend. Is there anything keepign the Z would have gained me besides your approval?
This is an enthusiast forum (supposedly). Tough to expect not to get flak about trading a Z for a run of the mill Civic, whatever the rationalization may be. Especially when spending money to soup up said Civic to increase the performance above the level lost in such a trade.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 05, 2016, 02:35:07 PM
For me, yes, that obligation is there.
Yet you don't feel that way about motorcycles. What a shitty obligation.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 05, 2016, 04:02:20 PM
Yet you don't feel that way about motorcycles. What a shitty obligation.
For me, tracking a motorcycle moves from thrilling to fearing for my life. Too much risk IMO, and for that reason, I won't track my bike(s), but I try and track my car as much as I can.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 05, 2016, 02:35:07 PM
For me, yes, that obligation is there. If I buy something I want to get my money's worth. Buying a sports car and not wringing it out on the track is a waste of money to me.
On the flip side, skewing the ride/handling balance on a street driven economy car more towards the sporty side makes sense. I have a good amount of winding roads near my house and on my commute. But I still need a usable trunk and adult sized back seats. Like I said before had I bought a 6MT G sedan instead of the Z I probably would have kept it. But I am still happier with the Civic over the Z to live with on a daily basis.
So you can't just enjoy a sports car on winding roads? The vast majority, including your old Z, are designed as road cars, not race cars. They are designed first and foremost for use on the street.
I get that the Z was simply too impractical for your needs. To small, too uncomfortable, no trunk, expensive to run... But this notion that you MUST take your car to a track if you have a sports car is a bit... much. If we were talking about a track-day toy like an Atom or X-bow, yeah, I'd agree with that, but those aren't built to be road cars.
I also get fine tuning a vehicle's ride to suit your preferences (either firmer or softer). Maybe even some bolt-ons like an intake or exhaust for a nicer sound. Boring/stroking a motor and installing a hotter cam is more than some springs and shocks or bolt-on intake/exhaust mods. That's right up there with adding forced induction to an NA motor.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 05, 2016, 03:42:45 PM
This is an enthusiast forum (supposedly). Tough to expect not to get flak about trading a Z for a run of the mill Civic, whatever the rationalization may be. Especially when spending money to soup up said Civic to increase the performance above the level lost in such a trade.
Where did I say anything about wanting to build the Civic beyond the Z's performance level? Lol. Some tires, suspension parts and bolt ons on a 140HP Civic will not move the needle much. Not even I am that delusional.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 05, 2016, 04:02:20 PM
Yet you don't feel that way about motorcycles. What a shitty obligation.
Lol, the only person getting hurt in your crusade here is you; please remember that. ;)
Z had too much overlap with the bike and the Civic. When I had all 3 the Z sat idle the most. Plus with track days, with mild mods on the Civic I could go whenever. Consumables are cheap, gas is cheap. 2-3 track days a year on it with my little mods won't do much. With the bike I need a one piece leather suit (~$500+), gauntlet boots (~$250+), and a rental van or a trailer + hitch on my car (need a car to carry food and parts). The track days themselves are much cheaper ($120 vs $250) but that initial investment is steep and there's other shit I'd rather spend my money on right now. But I do want to go eventually which is why I'm keeping it. Plus it's a lot of fun on the street... much more than the Z. Civic is stuck behind traffic just like the Z so it's not much less fun. I don't miss it.
Honda's are (the sexual orientation of the majority of carspin members).
:popcorn:
You think $750 is a steep initial investment and you want to do track days in your daily driver? :confused:
And you've been talking about changing internals on your civic.
I can't follow your train of thought at all.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on January 05, 2016, 04:49:57 PM
Honda's are (the sexual orientation of the majority of carspin members).
:popcorn:
You fucking take that back bro..... never disrespect Civic nation
Quote from: MrH on January 05, 2016, 05:05:11 PM
You think $750 is a steep initial investment and you want to do track days in your daily driver? :confused:
And you've been talking about changing internals on your civic.
I can't follow your train of thought at all.
You built up a track car and don't even drive it, let alone track it. I am not surprised you can't follow basic logic.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 05, 2016, 05:08:22 PM
You built up a track car and don't even drive it, let alone track it. I am not surprised you can't follow basic logic.
I wouldn't say coilovers and wheels/tires on a BRZ is building a track car.
He didn't even do any sweet, resale killing weight reduction mods!
Quote from: MrH on January 05, 2016, 05:05:11 PM
You think $750 is a steep initial investment and you want to do track days in your daily driver? :confused:
And you've been talking about changing internals on your civic.
I can't follow your train of thought at all.
Well, nobody can follow yours either, so.....
:lol:
Is civic nation a real thing?
Do they have local chapters and such.
I knew this thread was gonna be epic............
If Mike built a track car then so did I :lol:
Brah. Coilovers and wheels = race car. Civic with fully built engine, coilovers, wheels = backroads fun :lol:
Quote from: MrH on January 05, 2016, 10:07:54 PM
Brah. Coilovers and wheels = race car. Civic with fully built engine, coilovers, wheels = backroads fun :lol:
Oh thank god I upgraded passed track car. :lol:
Quote from: 68_427 on January 05, 2016, 10:10:05 PM
Oh thank god I upgraded passed track car. :lol:
You go full custom turbo setup, you might even get downgraded to junker, only fit to sit in driveway status.
Quote from: MrH on January 05, 2016, 10:07:54 PM
Brah. Coilovers and wheels = race car. Civic with fully built engine, coilovers, wheels = backroads fun :lol:
I qualify for backroads fun. :rockon:
I wouldn't have a choice :lol:
Quote from: MX793 on January 05, 2016, 04:18:58 PM
So you can't just enjoy a sports car on winding roads? The vast majority, including your old Z, are designed as road cars, not race cars. They are designed first and foremost for use on the street.
I get that the Z was simply too impractical for your needs. To small, too uncomfortable, no trunk, expensive to run... But this notion that you MUST take your car to a track if you have a sports car is a bit... much. If we were talking about a track-day toy like an Atom or X-bow, yeah, I'd agree with that, but those aren't built to be road cars.
I also get fine tuning a vehicle's ride to suit your preferences (either firmer or softer). Maybe even some bolt-ons like an intake or exhaust for a nicer sound. Boring/stroking a motor and installing a hotter cam is more than some springs and shocks or bolt-on intake/exhaust mods. That's right up there with adding forced induction to an NA motor.
OK, maybe I should just limit that sentiment to myself. For me, the Z would only be justifiable to keep as a track focused beast. But it was wayyyy too expensive for that. Esp given how limited my time on the weekends are. I get the same thrills and then some from the bike, and much more utility out of the Civic.
Z is kind of a wack road car. Too loud, too fast for speed limits, too impractical for daily use if you are older than like 24. We had our moments, and as I watched it drive away I thought "damn that is a SEXY ass car".... but to borrow an old saying from the streets, "you show me a dime (a beautiful woman) and I can show u a dude tired of [sleeping with] her." Just having a back seat and trunk to throw shit is huge.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 06, 2016, 04:25:34 AM
Too loud, too fast for speed limits, too impractical for daily use if you are older than like 24.
:lol: Need to get you into a pro-touring beast. I think you'd piss yourself.
On a track Id be yellin hell yea. 458 Italia was fun as fuck on the track
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 06, 2016, 10:46:10 AM
On a track Id be yellin hell yea. 458 Italia was fun as fuck on the track
You could mod the civic to match the performance of a 458 for hella cheap. Plus it would get 30+ on your daily and have mad functionality.
4 doors for more whores
I don't disappoint.... I am definitely with the shits
Things have been chill with the Civic.... I really want to get the front end fixed so I can do this headlight retrofit. Lighting SUCKS right now.
You're doing a full projector swap into it?
Yea, Morimoto Mini D2S 3.0s from The Retrofit Source.... have had oen in the bike for like 2 years and it works great. Still works great sitting in the elements. Easy to install too. Those and suspension/brakes will probably be it this year
I'm jelly.
I'd like to have the money to spiff up the car(s)- Odyssey needs those hideos black fillers replaced with fog lights, would love better stereo.
Impreza could take a double-DIN Bluetooth stereo, already has powered sub under passenger seat and some decent speakers. Needs some paint attention..
Once I get a Miata I'm torn between just keeping it stock or zooming it up. I would want to do longer trips, so real harsh suspension wouldn't be my thing. But would be sooooo much fun!
I would pass on the Miata and put that money into your other cars. You will prob spend more time in the Odyssey and Impreza than the Miata... might as well make those rides nice instead of taking money from them for a car you might not get to drive often. $2-5K would go a LONG way in mods. I could afford a Miata on the side but I know I would never drive it.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 25, 2016, 01:17:36 PM
I would pass on the Miata and put that money into your other cars. You will prob spend more time in the Odyssey and Impreza than the Miata... might as well make those rides nice instead of taking money from them for a car you might not get to drive often. $2-5K would go a LONG way in mods. I could afford a Miata on the side but I know I would never drive it.
As we sit right now, Odyssey should be good for a long while but while I would 'like' a little more in it, I'll never get around to it.
Impreza is wife's baby and at only 90k miles it will be with us for a long long time. So I figure in a few years we might be able to afford something else, I would get a daily driver slash 'cheap fun car'.
I cannot describe the 6months of joy when I could pick which car to drive to work- I had Miata, my old Subie, and wife never wanted to drive either so I could pick whichever one caught my mood. Subie was my go-to when the weather was crappy, otherwise I rocked the top down as often as possible.
-safer than a motorcycle
-no helmet necessary ;)
-got 28mpg even driving it full-throttle up to 3rd gear EVERY stoplight. That right there is a blast!!
-way low maintenance costs.
My former in-laws (in New Hampshire) bought one around the same time I bought then sold mine, maybe I'll plant the bug if they ever want to sell it I'll buy it. They keep it in a neighbor's garage during the winter. You really can see why they are so successful if you can spend a little time in one with top-down weather!
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 25, 2016, 01:31:20 PM
As we sit right now, Odyssey should be good for a long while but while I would 'like' a little more in it, I'll never get around to it.
Impreza is wife's baby and at only 90k miles it will be with us for a long long time. So I figure in a few years we might be able to afford something else, I would get a daily driver slash 'cheap fun car'.
I cannot describe the 6months of joy when I could pick which car to drive to work- I had Miata, my old Subie, and wife never wanted to drive either so I could pick whichever one caught my mood. Subie was my go-to when the weather was crappy, otherwise I rocked the top down as often as possible.
-safer than a motorcycle
-no helmet necessary ;)
-got 28mpg even driving it full-throttle up to 3rd gear EVERY stoplight. That right there is a blast!!
-way low maintenance costs.
My former in-laws (in New Hampshire) bought one around the same time I bought then sold mine, maybe I'll plant the bug if they ever want to sell it I'll buy it. They keep it in a neighbor's garage during the winter. You really can see why they are so successful if you can spend a little time in one with top-down weather!
We've been over this - you can't compare riding a motorcycle to driving a car, unless it's something batshit crazy like an Atom.
Quote from: thecarnut on January 25, 2016, 01:50:06 PM
We've been over this - you can't compare riding a motorcycle to driving a car, unless it's something batshit crazy like an Atom.
I haven't been on that conversation- but I understand and disagree. You can compare whales to pencils, in that you'll find a lot of dissimilarities.
People compare helicopters to airplanes- super different.
Miata vs. motorcycle= both vehicles are transportation, ICE, rubber tires, built more for "fun" than utility.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 25, 2016, 01:01:40 PM
I'm jelly.
I'd like to have the money to spiff up the car(s)- Odyssey needs those hideos black fillers replaced with fog lights, would love better stereo.
Impreza could take a double-DIN Bluetooth stereo, already has powered sub under passenger seat and some decent speakers. Needs some paint attention..
Once I get a Miata I'm torn between just keeping it stock or zooming it up. I would want to do longer trips, so real harsh suspension wouldn't be my thing. But would be sooooo much fun!
If the question cannot be answered completely with Miata, then the obvious answer is Miatas.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 25, 2016, 01:17:36 PM
I would pass on the Miata
the fuck you say??
:hammerhead:
I only have so much time, and I'd rather give it to bikes than cars. I know if I got a Miata it would just sit.... if the weather is good for top down stuff it's good for riding.
That's just poppycock.
The solution is to have several bikes and a Miata.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 25, 2016, 02:35:22 PM
If the question cannot be answered completely with Miata, then the obvious answer is Miatas.
Genius! :mrcool:
On the other hand, what could be more fun than doing 80 down a back road in a worn out Mighty Max?
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 26, 2016, 09:51:44 AM
On the other hand, what could be more fun than doing 80 down a back road in a worn out Mighty Max?
A Staph Infection?
Mighty Max can do 80 down a back road?!?
:rage:
Wow, had to give her all she had to stand my ground from a stoplight to a 2-1 merge against a Kia Soul :facepalm: I was in the left lane too, he was supposed to yield
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 27, 2016, 04:52:11 PM
Wow, had to give her all she had to stand my ground from a stoplight to a 2-1 merge against a Kia Soul :facepalm: I was in the left lane too, he was supposed to yield
Hamster power, man.
Shoulda gotta Si?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 27, 2016, 04:52:11 PM
Wow, had to give her all she had to stand my ground from a stoplight to a 2-1 merge against a Kia Soul :facepalm: I was in the left lane too, he was supposed to yield
That's because you were granny shifting, not double clutching like you should've.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 27, 2016, 04:53:09 PM
Hamster power, man.
Shoulda gotta Si?
That is an instance where the extra power would have come in handy. I think my intake gave me the edge. I nailed the launch and every shift too.
Kia Souls are pretty spunky.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 27, 2016, 04:52:11 PM
Wow, had to give her all she had to stand my ground from a stoplight to a 2-1 merge against a Kia Soul :facepalm: I was in the left lane too, he was supposed to yield
I have a G8 GT for sale. Problem solved..... :stirspot:
I still would have lost in the G8 as I would have had to pull in for gas by the 2nd gear change
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 27, 2016, 05:17:27 PM
I have a G8 GT for sale. Problem solved..... :stirspot:
Ooooooo what's next? New camaro?
Quote from: MrH on January 27, 2016, 05:39:02 PM
Ooooooo what's next? New camaro?
I looked at a couple! They're (V8) out of my price range. Looks like it'll be another C6.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 27, 2016, 05:32:25 PM
I still would have lost in the G8 as I would have had to pull in for gas by the 2nd gear change
:shakesfist: Hamster mobile would have been annihilated before shifting out of 1st....
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 27, 2016, 04:59:36 PM
That is an instance where the extra power would have come in handy. I think my intake gave me the edge. I nailed the launch and every shift too.
Your NOS meter fills up with every perfect shift, too.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on January 27, 2016, 05:40:54 PM
I looked at a couple! They're (V8) out of my price range. Looks like it'll be another C6.
C6's are still gorgeous
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 27, 2016, 05:52:13 PM
C6's are still gorgeous
I hate electric door latches.
Otherwise it is Corvette perfection.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 27, 2016, 05:53:48 PM
I hate electric door latches.
Otherwise it is Corvette perfection.
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--2KqOOq6c--/1292771558512974438.jpg)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 27, 2016, 07:04:50 PM
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--2KqOOq6c--/1292771558512974438.jpg)
Overly complicated bullshit.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 27, 2016, 05:52:13 PM
C6's are still gorgeous
Yes! I love the C7 (Especially the interior) but it's something about the 6 that draws me in! I wish the prices would come down on the GS tho!
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 27, 2016, 07:06:35 PM
Overly complicated bullshit.
I agree! And that's the only thing I despised about my last C6!
Thankfully we did not get gaped by taxes like we thought we would... gonna get my front end fixed in March and maybe order all the suspension and brake shit April-May.
*EDIT* Scheduled to get it fixed in like 10 days. Looking forward to throwing my projectors in.
Hopefully today is the day. They haven't called yet. Mazda 3 has me jonesing for a better stereo with BT and navigation. Might have to do that before the springs and shocks... I just don't want to spend a ton of $$$$. $500 or so tops for the HU/speakers/amp.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 17, 2016, 07:56:32 AM
Hopefully today is the day. They haven't called yet. Mazda 3 has me jonesing for a better stereo with BT and navigation. Might have to do that before the springs and shocks... I just don't want to spend a ton of $$$$. $500 or so tops for the HU/speakers/amp.
Ebay is best for that. It's all probably hot as fuck, but I always get my car audio on ebay for way cheap.
Quote from: SVT666 on March 17, 2016, 11:14:43 AM
Ebay is best for that. It's all probably hot as fuck, but I always get my car audio on ebay for way cheap.
Yup! Check Cruthfield for all the components you want then buy on Ebay!
Lol yup :lol:
Hahaha. I am a fan of Sonic Electronix and Parts Express personally.
Sonic sells on ebay too.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Ordered a second pair of headlights for the retrofit. Should be in today but in laws are gonna be here this weekend so I will fuck with it during the week. I hope to do the install next week. Already took the bumper off to do my CAI so it should go quickly. Will be nice to be able to see at night! That's probably the biggest thing I miss about the Z. The Z33B HID headlights were excellent. I drive a good bit on backroads for my commute during the winter so this shit will help.
i replaced a bulb the other day. :huh: :lol:
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on April 09, 2016, 02:04:48 PM
i replaced a bulb the other day. :huh: :lol:
Next week DOHC V8 rebuild!!! :cheers:
Ordered coilovers and the alignment shit. I'm ready to do my headlights but they don't fit in my oven. Gotta get a heat gun and drill bit.
Awww sookie sookie they are at my house right nah!!!!
Front brake rotors are a little glazed I think... still have a good amount of pad left but I'm debating how far to go. I think I'm gonna do the TSX upgrade... adds another inch of diameter and a good amount of thickness ( :winkguy: ) along with a bigger caliper. I'm just nervous that it won't fit under my stock wheels. I have seen folks with TSXs on 16s but wheel designs vary. Car has EBD so I don't think the brake balance will shift too far forward. I think it should clear the rim but I don't know about the spokes. In any case I think I'm gonna hold off on that till next month. Get TSX calipers/brakes/rotors for the front and matching pads for the back.
Pics? What'd you buy? Please tell me it's Racelands :lol:
Hell no... do it once, do it right. I got STs. I'm hoping to get them on this weekend. Once they are on I will update my sig pic.
What are STs?
Are these twin tube or mono tubes? Adjustable height? I have no idea what your Civic suspension is even like :lol: They aren't still double wishbones all around, are they?
Quote from: MrH on May 03, 2016, 01:57:29 PM
Are these twin tube or mono tubes? Adjustable height? I have no idea what your Civic suspension is even like :lol: They aren't still double wishbones all around, are they?
I think they're MacPherson front and multi-link rear now.
Yea, struts up front, multilink in the back. Honda's first pass with front struts was a complete disaster, as was their attempt to make the rear more space efficient. They fixed all those problems with my car.
http://news.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=2005083039848 (http://news.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=2005083039848)
ST coilovers, as far as anyone can tell, are just budget priced KW V1s. They are twin tube, which kind of sucks, but they have a lowish spring rate which works really well on the street but doesn't let the car bottom out. They are stiffer than most lowering springs but softer than all the other coilovers. The website I bought them from is owned by a guy who seems tech savvy... he's done some spring and damper tests. Here's what he had to say about these:
QuoteDoing my testing and review of the ST Coilover, the first thing that I realize is how astonishingly similar to the KW V1 it is, for a fraction of the price. Things even have the same part numbers on them. Springs are the same and most of the kit is identical.
The only 2 differences are:
1) The ST Coilovers have a nickel plated mild steel front strut housing where the KW V1 (and V3) use a stainess steel strut housing (called inox in Europe). Note that nickel plating is a super durable plating and these should last a long long time. And what's more interesting is that mild steel is stronger than stainless steel; so as a structural thing, the ST is actually better. When we at RedShift do our custom housings, we always use non-stainless steel for just this reason. ( :wanker: )
2) The thread pitch on the strut housings is different; so the perch thread is different... who cares.... The perch color is also different from the KW, but the perch is otherwise identical.
3) Warranty - this is the only real difference as far as I can see. The KW is a lifetime warranty where the ST is only 5 years. Put that in perspective... most other coilovers on the market are only year warranty. Konis are lifetime warranty; so if you are debating this coilover vs Konis, that can be a determining factor for some. But 5 years is a LONG time. So, I would think that is good enough to cover just about any issues you are likely to have and care about.
The spring rates on this kit as I tested them on our spring rater is 240F/305R, which is the softest sprung coilover kit I have tested to date. It's wonderful! This is EASILIY my favorite street kit because of its great quality, great comfort, excellent handling, and amazingly low price. You have to have a very good reason to not get this coilover.... like you want something with stiffer springs and adjustable shocks (consider the D2 coilover).
I probably could have got away with springs/shocks but I don't like doing lowering springs on struts. Travel is too limited. On my last Maxima I ran some no-name twin tube coilovers about 3" below stock ( :ricericebaby: ) and those rode pretty well and took a pounding everyday driving from BK to the Bronx and back. Roads down here are a lot better but I didn't want to go too stiff, and I like KW better than Tein & D2. These are adjustable height (what coilovers aren't???) but from what I can tell they change height and preload together which I'm not crazy about, but is pretty much de rigeur for a reputable brand at this price point.
Hopefully this weekend I can do the suspension, and next weekend I can do my headlights. Then next month I'll do my brakes and be done for the year... only thing left will be the stereo which I will probably do around Xmas if we have any money left. Our Europe trip is looking a lot cheaper than I thought it would be.
Eww, twin tubes :lol:
Just kidding. Yeah, they're just budget KWs I guess. Weird. How much for the car set?
I'm not sure how it is on the Civic on but on the Miata, KW V1's don't let you independently change ride height (you have to do it through preload which sucks).
Quote from: MrH on May 03, 2016, 02:26:19 PM
Eww, twin tubes :lol:
Just kidding. Yeah, they're just budget KWs I guess. Weird. How much for the car set?
Twin tubes are better for MAX LOWS and MAX COMFORTS which seems to be the direction that Sporty's headed in. :evildude: :lol:
If this thing makes it to the track more than once a year I would be surprised. But we do have a lot of roundabouts and backroads. The car would need new struts at some point... this is just maintenance guys :evildude:
Not going to slam it though I did get front/rear camber kits and a balljoint extender. No cheaping out this go round. Been there, done that, got the t shirt.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on May 03, 2016, 02:29:36 PM
Twin tubes are better for MAX LOWS and MAX COMFORTS which seems to be the direction that Sporty's headed in. :evildude: :lol:
They're also better for MIN COST and MAX PACKAGING :lol: That's the real reason why.
Soft springs and big sway bars are the way to go, especially with a good stiff chassis.
Twin vs. mono is rather unimportant in a street car IMO.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on May 03, 2016, 03:13:11 PM
Soft springs and big sway bars are the way to go, especially with a good stiff chassis.
Twin vs. mono is rather unimportant in a street car IMO.
No, stiff spring and throw out the sway bar. :nono:
:lol:
For a track car, sure.
Quote from: MrH on May 03, 2016, 02:35:33 PM
They're also better for MIN COST and MAX PACKAGING :lol: That's the real reason why.
Im not putting PSS9s on a 160HP school teacher's car
Custom valved Ohlins or bust!
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 03, 2016, 04:34:49 PM
Im not putting PSS9s, Performance Tires/Rims, Engine Mods/Tune, Intake or Exhaust or Upgraded Brakes on a 160HP school teacher's car
:lol:
Sweet, the stuff arrived tonight. If I do one corner a day I should be done by Monday :lol:
Naw I'm gonna do it Saturday morning after I work out. Get it aligned Sunday and drive in Monday. Gotta get a spring compressor.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 04, 2016, 04:47:40 PM
Sweet, the stuff arrived tonight. If I do one corner a day I should be done by Monday :lol:
Naw I'm gonna do it Saturday morning after I work out. Get it aligned Sunday and drive in Monday. Gotta get a spring compressor.
Why do you need a spring compressor?
EDIT: nevermind, your sweet ST's don't come with top hats, huh? Even my BC RACING coilovers came with top hats so it was a quick swap. :devil: :praise: :lol:
Your BC RACNIG coils also come with 16384 levels of damping with herra crosstalk :lol:
Naw but that does kinda suck. We gonna make it though
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 04, 2016, 06:46:53 PM
Your BC RACNIG coils also come with 16384 levels of damping with herra crosstalk :lol:
Naw but that does kinda suck. We gonna make it though
Bruh, at least my BC RACINGS see some (occasional, terribly driven) track days. :devil:
Thankfully you should only need the compressors to get the tophats off. Don't need dat shiz for installing the hats on the new coilovers.
It does come with helper springs. I should be ok for the install though. The back is gonna be hella easy
Ricer's log.... VTEC x-over date: 5302.638A
Front is complete after about 6 hours lol. Got the parts out OK, but getting the strut shaft nut out was a nightmare. I broke down and went to Lowes and got some hollow sockets. They actually work pretty well.
The "easier" backs are probably going to have to wait until tomorrow. The strut shaft threads are completely rusted, and the spring they said would be "easy peasy" to come out needs compressors. Those hollow sockets came in handy for the back though. Letting WD-40 soak and prob calling it a day. Wifey is pestering me about wanting to see my face and shit.
Keeping the lowering mild. Stock fender to tire center was 14.5" I think. I'm going to leave it at 13.5" this week, let it settle and get it aligned next week. I'm hoping it will settle around 13-13.25". Turning it around in my driveway with the ST fronts and stock rear, the rear def took a little more time to settle after the curb but the STs were not rough. Just curt. Looking forward to getting this done. Also kind of forgot how much I enjoy working on cars. Crazy that such a "simple" job is taking me so long though. That's how it always is I guess.
The simple jobs are ALWAYS the ones that take the longest! SMH......
Just finished the back... still gotta button shit up, gonna let it settle.
OK, here she is
(http://i.imgur.com/sHrJA4D.jpg)
Overall impressions: pretty good. Car feels way more planted, but the ride is pretty close to stock. Shocks eat up all the little bumps well and deals with the big ones quickly but comfortably. Only downside now is the rest of the car's deficiencies are more glaring. Engine is pretty soggy below 2500 and the brakes absolutely need a flush. The tires I thought were excellent now give up a little too easily. Steering seems a little vague too but I need an alignment. Tracks fine on the highway though and feels planted. Also just from eyeballing it I don't think I need the camber kits I bought. It's only 1 1/4" below stock (I measured). It's fun to re-learn the car as well. It's very different.
Needs more low.
m0ar low
Naw man, I already have to slow down for driveways. This height is pretty much perfect.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 08, 2016, 12:53:46 PM
Naw man, I already have to slow down for driveways. This height is pretty much perfect.
Don't you already have to slow down for driveways in a stock car? :huh:
More lift and then your trophy truck stops for no driveways!
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 07, 2016, 03:04:10 PM
Ricer's log.... VTEC x-over date: 5302.638A
....Wifey is pestering me about wanting to see my face and shit.
:lol:
Quote from: Cookie Monster on May 08, 2016, 01:01:51 PM
Don't you already have to slow down for driveways in a stock car? :huh:
No... I live in a cul de sac so I was already pretty slowed down in the first place. Now I have to basically come down to a crawl and approach at an angle.
I take that back- it bobs a lot less, I can approach my driveway at regular speed.
Man this thing is fun lol. And it looks funny. Like a little demon hahaha
I'm digging it. Are those real Honda wheels??
Those were the stock wheels on the EX
If you want to upgrade take a look into STi BBS wheels. I see them on EP3s here all the time. $500 for a set of forged OEM wheels
I have been thinking about those and EVOs
Hard to find wheels that flow with this car though. I want something CE28 or TC105N style. I just got these tires though so I will think about upgrading when they're done
The Evo Enkeis I think would look a little nicer, but they're heavier
TL-S wheels look awesome too.
My dream EVO wheels would be the X MR BBSs. I can only imagine how much those go for
Get a nice rear sway bar now and a slightly aggressive alignment and you should be able stamp out most of that cars annoying understeer. Can you defeat the stability control on this model year?
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I think only the Si's have stability control. If I have it it's non defeatible... but I have 4 wheel drifted and peeled the tires quite a bit.
The 20mm RSB off of your car has been confirmed to work on ours. Not bad for $100 from Honda. I am kind of surprised they keep them in stock in the first place. I think I will pick one up next month when I do my brakes. I'm going TSX up front.
I've heard a lot about the TSX brakes being used, let me know how that goes.
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I've never liked the stock Enkei Evo wheels. My IX had the SE package OZ's which where the best EVO VIII or IX wheel IMO. My VIII had the enkei, started looking the day I got it for someone getting rid of the optional OZ's.
The base VIII Enkeis look good on our cars. Pretty much any sporty 17 does with the right offset
Isn't it true that getting high end aftermarket wheels for Civics is like traveling in Europe by rail with a visible Rolex on your wrist. It's not a matter of if, but when, will they get stolen. You know it's going to happen.
Down hurrrr it's all about a big new Silverado Z71 on 22s, or a 20 year old Ram 2500 diesel rolling coal. Nobody cares about Civics. Plus I live in a super safe + quiet + nosy neighborhood with security. No problems. I could buy an Integra Type R and park it in my driveway with no worries.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 11, 2016, 10:43:34 AM
Down hurrrr it's all about a big new Silverado Z71 on 22s, or a 20 year old Ram 2500 diesel rolling coal. Nobody cares about Civics. Plus I live in a super safe + quiet + nosy neighborhood with security. No problems. I could buy an Integra Type R and park it in my driveway with no worries.
Bullshit. That's not possible anywhere in the world. :nono:
Seriously though, I also live in one of the safest neighborhoods and have done shit like leaving my Miata unlocked and left the key to a friend's RX7 in the hatch key hole for a few days, and I would still be scared to keep an ITR uncovered in the driveway. :mask:
I could leave an ITR in my neighborhood forever. No one would steal it. Blue collar Ohio folks don't even know what an ITR is.
Quote from: MrH on May 11, 2016, 11:14:45 AM
I could leave an ITR in my neighborhood forever. No one would steal it. Blue collar Ohio folks don't even know what an ITR is.
Nah, someone from the Dayton Swim Club would probably steal it.
I'm telling you man, I think we are in a *SAFE SPACE*
Plus car theft in general is way down from its peak (along with other crime)
I would still probably get one in black, remove the decals and put some steelies or non Type-R wheels on :mask: But that's a far cry from the vault with armed guards you needed ~15 yrs ago.
I never understood the theft rate on those. Sure they're pretty good cars, but they're just a fast FWD Honda. :nutty:
Quote from: CaminoRacer on May 11, 2016, 01:33:15 PM
I never understood the theft rate on those. Sure they're pretty good cars, but they're just a fast FWD Honda. :nutty:
Interchangeable parts with numerous Honda models and the booming Fast & Furious tuner scene made them prime candidates to be chopped and parted out. Plus they were easier than the average car to steal.
Quote from: MX793 on May 11, 2016, 01:52:02 PM
Plus they were easier than the average car to steal.
How so?
Quote from: CaminoRacer on May 11, 2016, 01:33:15 PM
I never understood the theft rate on those. Sure they're pretty good cars, but they're just a fast FWD Honda. :nutty:
Also named one of the best handling FWD cars of all time. They have a cult status.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on May 11, 2016, 01:56:47 PM
How so?
Honda was slower than many other manufacturers in adopting chipped immobiliser keys. They were simply easy to get into and either drill out the ignition switch or hotwire.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on May 11, 2016, 02:22:58 PM
Also named one of the best handling FWD cars of all time. They have a cult status.
RWD >>>>>>
Quote from: MX793 on May 11, 2016, 02:24:33 PM
Honda was slower than many other manufacturers in adopting chipped immobiliser keys. They were simply easy to get into and either drill out the ignition switch or hotwire.
I have a key hidden on my car. You can literally walk up to at any time and take it of you want. If you're smart enough. :lol:
Quote from: CaminoRacer on May 11, 2016, 03:18:26 PM
RWD >>>>>>
It depends. For that gutless 1.8L, I'd call it a wash.
Best handling fwd car is totally a second place loser kind of trophy. Same with fastest fwd car around the ring, fastest fwd to 60, etc.
Honda made a much better car. It's called the s2000 :praise:
ITR got the subjective best of a few important RWD cars too, including the E30 M3 and GT86 :whistle:
DOHC VTEC + double wishbones + LSD is a must do driving experience.
I would rather ITR over S2k.
Yes, I know what it says in my sig.
Depends on the S2K for me. AP2, maybe. AP1's weak low cam pissed me off. ITR is light enough that it kind of doesn't even matter.
There's only a 250 lb difference between the two really
Thats a lot for a car that weighs 2500lbs lol.
Weirdness.... front right rubs on hard right turns, but front left doesn't rub on hard left. I think the right has less negative camber than the right. Debating just going full negative with spacers up front
If I can find some time this weekend I'm gonna build a little wood oven to bake my headlights in. I need to get that shit done along with my bike's brake lines and coolant flush
Did your coilivers come with camber bolts as well as plates?
Quote from: 68_427 on May 14, 2016, 07:08:46 AM
Did your coilivers come with camber bolts as well as plates?
No but they have a slot that lets them tilt up front. I like that because I would rather keep the stock top hats. Car is noisy enough as is
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 14, 2016, 08:04:26 AM
Car is noisy enough as is
It's not too noisy until you have to wear earplugs on road trips.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on May 14, 2016, 08:23:22 AM
It's not too noisy until you have to wear earplugs on road trips.
I have to wear earplugs every time. :cry:
Quote from: Cookie Monster on May 14, 2016, 09:55:58 AM
I have to wear earplugs every time. :cry:
Same here with the VW.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on May 14, 2016, 09:55:58 AM
I have to wear earplugs every time. :cry:
This seems pointless, even for a purely track car.... all that noise sounds exhausting.....
My car has no muffler and I can cruise in silence.. Wtf did y'all do to your shit
Quote from: 68_427 on May 14, 2016, 05:47:39 PM
My car has no muffler and I can cruise in silence.. Wtf did y'all do to your shit
No carpet, catless header and no sound insulation or black tar shit.
Quote from: 68_427 on May 14, 2016, 05:47:39 PM
My car has no muffler and I can cruise in silence.. Wtf did y'all do to your shit
aircooled fury
Quote from: Cookie Monster on May 14, 2016, 06:14:33 PM
No carpet, catless header and no sound insulation or black tar shit.
JFC why I am getting a headache just thinking about it
Quote from: Cookie Monster on May 14, 2016, 06:14:33 PM
No carpet, catless header and no sound insulation or black tar shit.
Or the Subaru EJ is far superior to anything else on the road
Quote from: 68_427 on May 14, 2016, 09:01:26 PM
Or the Subaru EJ is far superior to anything else on the road
You should swap it into a Lumina and have the ultimate chick magnet.
I can swap my luggage rack ontoto the trucnk
This autocorrect iss pretty cgood
Quote from: 68_427 on May 14, 2016, 09:01:26 PM
Or the Subaru EJ is far superior to anything else on the road
You need more inline secks in your life.
Quote from: Char on May 15, 2016, 05:44:46 AM
You need more inline secks in your life.
Is that like a human centipede?
Quote from: Char on May 15, 2016, 05:44:46 AM
You need more inline secks in your life.
I drove an N52 equipped car in February for two weeks. It was nice
Quote from: 68_427 on May 14, 2016, 09:01:26 PM
Or the Subaru EJ is far superior to anything else on the road
Must be why you had to rebuild yours and why every used listing for an EJ has "omg needs headgaskets pls", right? :devil:
Quote from: Cookie Monster on May 15, 2016, 11:27:22 AM
Must be why you had to rebuild yours and why every used listing for an EJ has "omg needs headgaskets pls", right? :devil:
It builds character. Like a good father figure :lol:
Or like an abusive spouse :hammerhead:
Small price to pay to have the automotive relative of the best handling car ever on the spin. :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 14, 2016, 08:54:28 PM
JFC why I am getting a headache just thinking about it
I am a firm believer in the idea that racecars don't belong on the street.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on May 15, 2016, 02:05:13 PM
I am a firm believer in the idea that racecars don't belong on the street.
A street car can be a race car and vice versa. Im pretty sure some race cars have power steering and air conditioning. A muffler only costs like 3 hp
Battery died :confused:
Gonna see if I can get charging system check. Hoping I don't need a new alternator. We got culo blasted this month financially :facepalm:
When I changed the battery the radio got locked out... forgot to get the code from the last time I disconnected the battery :facepalm: Window shopping for a new one. Decent car stereo stuff is cheap.... I might grab a head unit soon and get all the amps/speakers and shit for Xmas.
Still gotta get these fucking headlights done too. I have a ton of spare wood in the house... might build a little oven to bake them in
Heard some knocking up front.... nut threads on the front right top hat started to back out :facepalm: Hopefully I can pick up a cheap ratchet at lunch time. That SUCKS
The nuts holding the piston rod tenons to top hat started to back off? What'd you torque them down to?
Did you actually damage the threads?
Threads are fine. I don't have a torque wrench and a torque wrench head wouldn't have fit where these nuts are anyway. Thinking about getting some locking washers. Left side is fine so I probably just didn't torque the right down enough
Yeah, just be careful. Some of those piston rod tenons are pretty small. It's not hard to yield the threads, then the whole thing is fucked.
Thankfully it used the stock top hat so if the threads get fucked I can just replace it. But yea, I went over everything twice before I started driving it... kind of disappointed I didn't catch this.
Nylocks, lock washers, or a second lock nut are probably a good idea.
Hmmm, I suspect there's an issue with my right front suspension, and your noise description sounded similar to what I hear over low speed road imperfections.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 18, 2016, 07:50:14 AM
Thankfully it used the stock top hat so if the threads get fucked I can just replace it. But yea, I went over everything twice before I started driving it... kind of disappointed I didn't catch this.
Oh, the actually hat is loose, not the tenon then? Yeah, torque the shit out of those :lol:
Haha! That's what happened to me and my Focus! Remember when a strut "broke"?
What the hell is a strut tenon???
It's the threaded end of the piston rod sticking out of a shock.
Im from the streets cuz. Where I'm from we call that the shock shaft
Quote from: MrH on May 18, 2016, 08:56:33 AM
It's the threaded end of the piston rod sticking out of a shock.
Get me a deal on some B14 PSS coilovers
Quote from: Char on May 18, 2016, 03:43:08 PM
Get me a deal on some B14 PSS coilovers
He changed jobs. He can now get you a deal on Viagra or extenz.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on May 18, 2016, 03:43:45 PM
He changed jobs. He can now get you a deal on Viagra or extenz.
Why not both? :winkguy:
B14 PSS would probably work as both for me.
:lol: :golfclap:
:lol: I could have hooked you guys up if I was still there.
Now, I gotta bum my cheap shocks off former co-workers. That's a bit of a tougher spin. I just ordered two sets myself
:lol: I could have hooked you guys up if I was still there.
Now, I gotta bum my cheap shocks off former co-workers. That's a bit of a tougher spin. I just ordered two sets myself
Bilstein needs to make a budget brand like KW/ST
I dont give a fuck about how pretty it is. Just keep it from rusting and give it good internals
Where are they supposed to cut cost from?
The only places they can really cut costs is the zinc plating on the pss series, but that's not a gigantic cost driver honestly. And they need to distinguish them looks wise from their lower end stuff. They could just paint them black or yellow, but the tiny cost to make them pretty makes them more desirable.
The adjustable damping system is actually where the cost is. The needle valves, piston rod, assembly, and tune is expensive. There's a reason why the non adjustable ones are so much cheaper.
Yea adjustable shocks are tough. At least to do well. Do they send out dynos with each set? For what they charge and the fact that they tune them anyway they should. That's a big selling point for Fortune Auto
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 18, 2016, 06:41:52 PM
Yea adjustable shocks are tough. At least to do well. Do they send out dynos with each set? For what they charge and the fact that they tune them anyway they should. That's a big selling point for Fortune Auto
All the adjustable pss9 & pss10 are done in an aftermarket plant in Germany. I think there's some very basic setup to get them set in a very wide range, but they're not putting every shock on a dyno. Setup alone takes 10 monites. But if you take two of the same part number and test what a level 4 is on each, they're not going to be spot on in relation to each other.
Basically, you have to set the knob at a certain point during construction. The new Viper ACR is actually using the same tech, but you can adjust the rebound and damping independent of each other. Those are all put on a dyno and actually tested and set.
Quote from: MrH on May 18, 2016, 08:07:20 PM
All the adjustable pss9 & pss10 are done in an aftermarket plant in Germany. I think there's some very basic setup to get them set in a very wide range, but they're not putting every shock on a dyno. Setup alone takes 10 monites. But if you take two of the same part number and test what a level 4 is on each, they're not going to be spot on in relation to each other.
Basically, you have to set the knob at a certain point during construction. The new Viper ACR is actually using the same tech, but you can adjust the rebound and damping independent of each other. Those are all put on a dyno and actually tested and set.
But, Ideally I wanted the PSS because the damping was fixed for the springrate, and it would be one less adjustment to make. When it comes to their fixed dampers, how good is the dampening?
Welp, I lost my job so this is just a pipe dream for me at this point.
Quote from: Char on May 18, 2016, 09:58:25 PM
Welp, I lost my job so this is just a pipe dream for me at this point.
Fuck bro, sorry to hear that man. Hope you get back on your feet, losing a job always sucks.
Quote from: Char on May 18, 2016, 09:58:25 PM
Welp, I lost my job so this is just a pipe dream for me at this point.
sorry to hear!!
Quote from: Char on May 18, 2016, 09:58:25 PM
But, Ideally I wanted the PSS because the damping was fixed for the springrate, and it would be one less adjustment to make. When it comes to their fixed dampers, how good is the dampening?
Welp, I lost my job so this is just a pipe dream for me at this point.
I agree that a good fixed rate shock can be nicer. It's not like I touch my adjustable shocks all that often anyway - only when I go to autox events. For a regular street car, I think it's unnecessary.
Quote from: Char on May 18, 2016, 09:58:25 PM
But, Ideally I wanted the PSS because the damping was fixed for the springrate, and it would be one less adjustment to make. When it comes to their fixed dampers, how good is the dampening?
Welp, I lost my job so this is just a pipe dream for me at this point.
Yeah, I had pss10s on the brz. I spent awhile trying to dial them in, but it was mostly to just try and get a good match to the springs. Too soft and they pogo stick around. Too stiff and you feel like the spring isn't doing anything.
I went with the pss for the s2000 this time. Substantially cheaper. The fixed stuff is vastly better than most aftermarket. They have a ride engineer tune it and everything. But it's nothing compared to the amount of work that goes into OEM suspension tuning. That's an entirely different game.
Sorry to hear about your job. I thought you were in med school?
Quote from: MrH on May 19, 2016, 05:55:03 AM
But it's nothing compared to the amount of work that goes into OEM suspension tuning. That's an entirely different game
Then why are so many stock suspensions complete shite? Seems like the default setting is too little rebound though now some manufacturers are going too far the other way
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 19, 2016, 07:59:26 AM
Then why are so many stock suspensions complete shite? Seems like the default setting is too little rebound though now some manufacturers are going too far the other way
How are they complete shit? If you're looking at total ride comfort + acceptable handling for the general population, they usually hit the mark pretty spot on. Enthusiasts tend to want a more controlled, stiffer ride. What you think is perfect is generally too stiff for the average joe.
They're also a lot more cost conscious on the OEM side. It's brutally competitive and they have to make design compromises sometimes.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 19, 2016, 07:59:26 AM
Then why are so many stock suspensions complete shite? Seems like the default setting is too little rebound though now some manufacturers are going too far the other way
Manufacturers design for a wide variety of road conditions. Short of active damping, you'll never get a solution that isn't in some way compromised.
Obv everything is compromised to some degree, but IDK.
I had pretty soft springs on my first Accord (~20% stiffer than stock) with Koni Yellows... to this day the best balance of ride and handling I've ever experienced. It ate up road imperfections like nothing but still kept the car balanced with low speed damping. This was in NYC too on their completely shit roads. Seems like most cars are too soft or too stiff
Finally got off my ass with this retrofit. Taking my time in this bitch. Used a box, digital thermometer and heat gun as a makeshift oven since my headlights won't fit in my actual oven.
(http://i.imgur.com/kn25tWW.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/wmKCcsz.jpg)
^^^Cooked em at ~225-250 for 10 minutes
(http://i.imgur.com/LLjWg2P.jpg)
^^^Made the inside smaller for more heat
(http://i.imgur.com/nNz2vqD.jpg)
^^^Heat gun fires on the other side of that piece of cardboard. So no direct heat. Everything is stapled
(http://i.imgur.com/MXN5IpY.jpg)
^^^Tada!
Next steps are:
- Cut reflectors up (will be easy- projectors mount with a big shaft and nut, just need a stepped drill bit)
- Cut and glue shrouds
- Reassemble headlights, install and aim in Demon Civic
Gotta figure out where to put the ballasts and relays too. Trying to figure out how to keep my DRLs but use the high beams in the projector. Probably won't get this shit done till next weekend at the earliest.... no rush whatsoever.
Heads up, stepped drill bits are expensive. I needed one for the hid kit for the 4runner. Was set to buy one, but they were like $60 at home depot. Fuck that noise :lol:
Found a bit that was close enough, then dremeled the rest.
$19.99 at Harbor Freight bruh. Even less if you wait for a sale and bring a 20% off coupon.
Home Depot/Lowes are generally ripoffs.... I found a bit for ~$11 shipped on Amazon. Should be here tomorrow
Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 04, 2016, 08:50:10 PM
$19.99 at Harbor Freight bruh. Even less if you wait for a sale and bring a 20% off coupon.
Yup!
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 05, 2016, 08:59:40 AM
Home Depot/Lowes are generally ripoffs.... I found a bit for ~$11 shipped on Amazon. Should be here tomorrow
Yup.....
Thank god for having all my dad's tools, and my best friend being a mechanic. I've always got everything I need. :lol:
Except a welder... damn
Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 04, 2016, 08:50:10 PM
$19.99 at Harbor Freight bruh. Even less if you wait for a sale and bring a 20% off coupon.
Harbor Freight tools get a bad reputation because they're all made in China. The thing is, most of the name brand tools are made in China, so I feel like I can shop at Harbor Freight guilt free now. :lol:
Maybe HFT are built in SuperChina by starving children. I don't know.
Quote from: 68_427 on June 06, 2016, 10:37:55 PM
Thank god for having all my dad's tools, and my best friend being a mechanic. I've always got everything I need. :lol:
Except a welder... damn
I have access to nice tools while I'm at home, Harbor Freight tools while I'm at college. :lol: Although I do Craftsman for some of the frequently used tools.
HFT is OK with me. I got the rearstands for my bike there. If they have the front locally I am probably gonna grab that too, along with a low profile jack. I don't know that I would trust HFT for anything electric/hydraulic/pneumatic though. Like I'd be pretty sketched to buy a HFT compressor or something..
Re: Civic.... gonna drill the holes in the headlights tonight. Plan is to do the install and aiming Friday night. Though I guess if I'm riding the motorcycle all week I can do the install as soon as I'm done.
Made some mods to the headlights and the projectors fit. Unfortunately the shrouds are no go. Had to order new ones and a DRL module. They are just in ATL so hopefully they will get here by this weekend.
So much projects this weekend and it's gonna hit 100 degrees :cry:
If the parts come in hopefully I can get the headlights done. Gotta change my bike chain and sprockets too
I feel u bruh. Got 2 engine swaps to complete this weekend. Luckily it'll only be 94 degrees. :lol:
You should install a window in the garage so you can get a window AC unit in there.
Those are old Mrrcn V8s though I'm guessing. Thats like 8 bolts and a couple of hose clamps :lol:
I have a portable A/C but it can barely keep a 200 sq ft room cool. It would probably just melt in the garage :facepalm:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 09, 2016, 08:30:46 PM
Those are old Mrrcn V8s though I'm guessing. Thats like 8 bolts and a couple of hose clamps :lol:
:lol:
Get an AC for your AC so it doesn't melt
Paint it blue
Man wrenching is a lot more fun with space and time. Got the chain off the bike pretty quickly and the shit for the headlights should be here tomorrow. I should have everything buttoned up Sunday.
QuoteMan wrenching is a lot more fun with space and time.
:confused:
Gay sex in the Q continuum?
Ahh Q, that son of a bitch. Humans are but a play thing of the Q.
Quote from: Laconian on June 10, 2016, 09:44:48 PM
:confused:
Gay sex in the Q continuum?
:clap:
Jesus, take the wheel. I'm finished :lol:
:clap: Another fine example of the importance of proper comma use, and punctuation in general
English is my second language. I haven't figured out what's my first
Ricer?
A/C acting up again :facepalm: Already had the compressor and condenser replaced. I think there has to be a leak they haven't found yet. If it's the evaporator coil I'm gonna be pissed. Hoping it's an O-ring or something.
One of these is in your future.
(http://www.thegreenhead.com/imgs/xl/breezie-bladeless-handheld-misting-fan-xl.jpg)
Test fit the shrouds. Not bad but not great. Downside of using these screw in projectors rather than a full on retrofit.
(http://i.imgur.com/FHDB0KZ.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/ChS7Ehx.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/thOduqQ.jpg)
Quick update and primer on an aspect of headlight optics
Foreground glare is a big problem for projectors. They make everything right in front of the car bright which makes it harder to see far ahead where you need the light. OEMs usually put a limiter in, but my projectors didn't have them, so I fabbed some up. Here's how the output of an OEM projector looks:
(http://i.imgur.com/ioZkCyX.jpg)
Here's how my projector output looked out of the box.... note the light below the garage door handle:
(http://i.imgur.com/hRGNLL5.jpg)
I fabbed a shield out of aluminum sheetmetal:
(http://i.imgur.com/SSDhLaT.jpg)
Here's the output of my projector now:
(http://i.imgur.com/r4scYyL.jpg)
Not losing much light... the light levels at the top and center (which will provide distance lighting) is about 10-20x brighter than the light at the edges. When it's projected onto the road it becomes even.
Lol just painted the different pieces of my headlights..... I can't deny my rice roots any longer. I think it will look good though, nothing crazy.
So, what was wrong with the stock headlights?
A good bit of my commute through out the year is driving in the dark on 2 lane back roads. Plus the stock halogens really suck after coming from the HIDs on the Z. Stock halogen headlights suck in general.
Post pictures of the whole assembly when you're done. I feel like ripping apart entire headlight assemblies is a total hit or miss. I've seen a lot that turn out looking rough, but I've seen others that are totally amazing.
It's definitely not going to be up to OEM standards :lol:
I cut too much of a shroud on one side, and I got a little overspray with the paint. Other than that it should be OK. If I remember I will cobble one together and get pics tonight.
Got it together and got them in the car. Aim is a problem though. Crosseyed
(http://i.imgur.com/oGL2893.jpg)
Crosseyed?
Give it a good slap
Yea the headlights were aimed awfully. I took all morning to re-aim them. Got it buttoned up, will get pics tonight.
(http://i.imgur.com/QlsbQKM.jpg)
(http://i.imgur.com/3tg5X2l.jpg)
I like your dealer advertising on the front. How much are you getting paid a month for that? Way to monetize your vehicle :lol:
Gah I fucking hate that dealer too. Was glad to see they took the badge off the back when they repainted my car under recall.
Some updates.
Threaded collar mounting method = fail. It ONLY works if you can use the stock bulb hole without modification. I had to bore mine out and then try and make a flat mounting surface. After playing with shims and shit it started to crack, and the final straw was the mounting nut cross threading the shaft. So with that I said fuck it, cut the nut off and decided to mount it with little corner braces. Actually working really well. Repainted the housing and shrouds as well. Just waiting for new bulbs and epoxy and I'll be done. I will get some pictures tonight.... pretty sure all the paint is dry, it's been like 3 days.
I want to do the stereo too. I'm just debating on which way to go. I don't know if I want a double DIN unit with Mirrorlink or a single DIN unit with a tablet mirroring my phone. Cost is the same, functionality is the same (I'd have Waze, OBDII app, anything on my phone), but I'm torn about the tablet. Properly mounted (I would fab something up with the storage space opened up) it would be cool AF, but storing/connecting the tablet every time would be a PITA; solutions to keep it in permanently haven't convinced me functionally and it would be a mega theft magnet. Main gripe with the double DIN units is the ones in my price range are butt ugly. The graphics are really awful too. It's a real toss up. May have to go used to get a better looking one.
Also not sure what to do about bass.... I could do 2 6.5" subs in the rear deck, but for like $100-150 more and some wood work I could do 2 15s in an infinite baffle setup. Wouldn't need a lot of power, would sound a lot better, would only weigh like 50lbs (I'd just take out my spare). Not looking to blow the block down, I am a tax paying homeowner. But all that surface area + the huge volume of the trunk would make for crazy efficiency and super linear response. Just afraid I may have to Dynamat the trunk which would add even more weight. In any case I have time... system is gonna be an Xmas gift. I want a new camera for my bday/this Europe trip. Project is moving though.
Seems like a single 15 would be plenty without shaking the whole neighborhood
I'm debating. They are cheap and light enough that if I'm going through the hassle I might as well double up. Plus with infinite baffle surface area is king since you can't control the stroke like you would in an enclosure. It's so much more efficient as well, I'll probably only have to run like 200-250W/channel max. Really cheap and effective setup if I can dampen the vibrations and I will still have full use of my trunk. Surprised this isn't more mainstream.
dat npr base doe
I need that thump for my Migos and Young Thug interludes
Quote from: MrH on June 27, 2016, 07:27:05 AM
I like your dealer advertising on the front. How much are you getting paid a month for that? Way to monetize your vehicle :lol:
Blows my mind how many people leave their rusty, nasty dealership badges and plates/frames on their car. You bought the car...you don't need to advertise for them. Let me clean up the look of your car for you!
Quote from: MrH on June 27, 2016, 07:27:05 AM
I like your dealer advertising on the front. How much are you getting paid a month for that? Way to monetize your vehicle :lol:
Quote from: giant_mtb on July 06, 2016, 02:37:29 PM
Blows my mind how many people leave their rusty, nasty dealership badges and plates/frames on their car. You bought the car...you don't need to advertise for them. Let me clean up the look of your car for you!
Pet peeve of mine too.
Quote from: Rich on July 06, 2016, 08:53:17 AM
dat npr base doe
Love NPR.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 06, 2016, 09:34:11 AM
I need that thump for my Migos and Young Thug interludes
Young Thug is garbage as hell, but the headlights look good.
I can get you a good price on some aftermarket OEM headlamps, just in case.
I always thought leaving dealer advertisements on cars was lame too until someone told me on this forum that leaving it on was sure to get you faster and better service when you bring your car to said dealership for maintenance/repair :huh:
Quote from: veeman on July 08, 2016, 08:32:09 AM
I always thought leaving dealer advertisements on cars was lame too until someone told me on this forum that leaving it on was sure to get you faster and better service when you bring your car to said dealership for maintenance/repair :huh:
Nah.
Quote from: veeman on July 08, 2016, 08:32:09 AM
I always thought leaving dealer advertisements on cars was lame too until someone told me on this forum that leaving it on was sure to get you faster and better service when you bring your car to said dealership for maintenance/repair :huh:
The FIRST thing I do is remove ANY advertisement!
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 07, 2016, 08:53:08 PM
I can get you a good price on some aftermarket OEM headlamps, just in case.
Can you?
If I remember tonight I will remove that plate. Need that airflow anyway
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 08, 2016, 11:10:31 AM
If I remember tonight I will remove that plate. Need that airflow anyway
:praise: best mod yet
Quote from: veeman on July 08, 2016, 08:32:09 AM
I always thought leaving dealer advertisements on cars was lame too until someone told me on this forum that leaving it on was sure to get you faster and better service when you bring your car to said dealership for maintenance/repair :huh:
Correct, that came from a multiple-different-dealerships service dept. manager.... (JWC)
I'd take the plate off except for when it's time to take it in :lol:
Plate is for a different dealer than the one I get service done at :pee:
Retrofit is 99.9% done. I had to fix the left side and when I put it in the car the tilt was off. But it's not bad enough for me to want to disassemble it again... gonna enjoy it for now. Maybe if it bothers me in the winter I will attack it again. Any fucking way gonna get a video up tonight.
Gonna trickle my camber kit shit on through the week and get an alignment next weekend. Finally be done for a while till the stereo goes in this winter
New shift knob and boot.... also new camera coming (A7II) and a suction cup mount for it. Gonna get some footage this weekend, thread has too many words.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 18, 2016, 11:08:00 AM
New shift knob and boot.... also new camera coming (A7II) and a suction cup mount for it. Gonna get some footage this weekend, thread has too many words.
In car footage from a Honda Civic? Are we supposed to be excited? :lol:
Quote from: SVT_Power on July 19, 2016, 09:43:35 AM
In car footage from a Honda Civic? Are we supposed to be excited? :lol:
This is a bonafide driver's car in the spirit of the 205 GTI, Clio Renaultsport etc. Serious business
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 19, 2016, 10:30:26 AM
This is a bonafide driver's car in the spirit of the 205 GTI, Clio Renaultsport etc. Serious business
The only bonafide driver's car in that category is the Clio V6 Renault Sport. Everything else is just FF nonsense.
Quote from: SVT_Power on July 19, 2016, 11:42:31 AM
The only bonafide driver's car in that category is the Clio V6 Renault Sport. Everything else is just FF nonsense.
French Cars? Hahahahaha
I would rock an old Clio RS on the dai-leee bruh.
Got a $15 fake Momo shift knob
Wow
Best money I've spent on the car. Cheapest short shifter ever and it feels great in hand. I do wish it were tighter though. Need to get longer set screws. If I remember to bring the camera out I'm gonna install all my camber shit this weekend. Get pics of all the latest shit.
One of my damn headlight ballasts went out. Probably had something to do with it sitting between the battery and coolant overfill bottle :facepalm: Need to tap and drill a better place for it.
Camber things?
Is this still a double wishbone car or has honda cheapened out(like everyone else)?
Wait, did you get a shift knob or a short shifter? Those are two different things.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on July 29, 2016, 07:26:18 AM
Camber things?
Is this still a double wishbone car or has honda cheapened out(like everyone else)?
Honda ditched the double-wishbone a couple of generations ago (2000 or 2001).
Quote from: MrH on July 29, 2016, 07:32:17 AM
Wait, did you get a shift knob or a short shifter? Those are two different things.
I know the difference between a shift knob and a short shift linkage :rolleyes:. I bought a shift knob. It is shorter than the stock one, which makes the whole shift assembly/throws shorter.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 29, 2016, 10:51:03 AM
I know the difference between a shift knob and a short shift linkage :rolleyes:. I bought a shift knob. It is shorter than the stock one, which makes the whole shift assembly/throws shorter.
How much shorter should a shift knob be?
Quote from: SVT_Power on July 29, 2016, 10:53:52 AM
How much shorter should a shift knob be?
The top of the knob shouldn't be more than like 1/4-1/2" higher than the end of the lever IMO.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 29, 2016, 10:51:03 AM
I know the difference between a shift knob and a short shift linkage :rolleyes:. I bought a shift knob. It is shorter than the stock one, which makes the whole shift assembly/throws shorter.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 28, 2016, 06:51:41 PM
Got a $15 fake Momo shift knob
Wow
Best money I've spent on the car. Cheapest short shifter ever and it feels great in hand.
:huh:
What's wrong with long knobs?
Lol I have a 4" (I think, might be 2.5") shift extension on my shifter.
Quote from: MrH on July 29, 2016, 01:10:49 PM
:huh:
Miss me with this passive aggressive shit dude. It's pretty obvious I was joking.
For the lolz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTBl8i3tEYU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTBl8i3tEYU)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 29, 2016, 12:57:10 PM
The top of the knob shouldn't be more than like 1/4-1/2" higher than the end of the lever IMO.
Oops I meant how much shorter COULD it be :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 29, 2016, 04:04:33 PM
Miss me with this passive aggressive shit dude. It's pretty obvious I was joking.
:confused:
Finally got it aligned. -1.3 up front, -2 out back (didn't bother with the rear camber kit). Feels so much better. Also installed those extended balljoints. Did NOT really feel a huge difference there, and in the process I snapped one of my ABS speed sensor wires :cry: Only a $20 part but still man.
Getting the first balljoint on was a bitch... I made the mistake of totally removing the nut, which forced me to have to remove the whole knuckle to get it out. It was kind of fun though. Disassembling the front suspension was easy AF. On the right side the whole process took like 30 minutes. Gotta rotate the tires.... after that and a beefier RSB I think I'm done with this thing's suspension.
Tall balljoints to improve camber gain? That's tough to notice unless you already knew your understeer limit. I only notice mine on tight autox courses, where it'll grip a bit more when the front end gets loaded.
Nah the longer balljoints help make the LCAs more horizontal when you lower the car. Helps maintain better suspension geometry. Front end feels much better now though
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 18, 2016, 11:08:00 AM
New shift knob and boot.... also new camera coming (A7II) and a suction cup mount for it. Gonna get some footage this weekend, thread has too many words.
just saw this fuck u tho
Also just get camber bolts for the rear. I think I got over 2 degrees out of mine.
Stock geometry has me at -2 in the rear. I gotta sell the rear kit
Rod knock :cry:
On the upside next week looks like it will be cool and dry so I can bike.... but it looks like an engine replacement is in order
Debating whether to just do a straight swap or get a little creative.... but getting the R20 from the ILX would cost an extra $1000 at least for the Flashpro and added cost of the engine
Fucking sucks :cry: I think I need a faster car. I'm very hard on this one to keep moving at a pace I like. Warmed up to the Focus ST but I'm gonna roll with this for a while first.
How many miles are on this thing?
Not enough for this to not be 100% my fault. I'm thinking just under 120K, haven't checked in a while.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 17, 2016, 06:15:52 AM
Rod knock :cry:
On the upside next week looks like it will be cool and dry so I can bike.... but it looks like an engine replacement is in order
Debating whether to just do a straight swap or get a little creative.... but getting the R20 from the ILX would cost an extra $1000 at least for the Flashpro and added cost of the engine
Fucking sucks :cry: I think I need a faster car. I'm very hard on this one to keep moving at a pace I like. Warmed up to the Focus ST but I'm gonna roll with this for a while first.
Shudda got the Si....... :popcorn:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 17, 2016, 06:15:52 AM
Rod knock :cry:
On the upside next week looks like it will be cool and dry so I can bike.... but it looks like an engine replacement is in order
Debating whether to just do a straight swap or get a little creative.... but getting the R20 from the ILX would cost an extra $1000 at least for the Flashpro and added cost of the engine
Fucking sucks :cry: I think I need a faster car. I'm very hard on this one to keep moving at a pace I like. Warmed up to the Focus ST but I'm gonna roll with this for a while first.
Sorry. But can't help but gloat a bit. All that talk about Honda "reliability" and "no need for a fast car".
:nutty:
How the fuck did this thing throw a rod? Are you 100% sure?
It's knocking bro. I know what rod knock sounds like.
Eh, mistakes are made. I still enjoy the car. Probably not gonna sell it soon after I fix it. Just can't beat on it too much.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on August 17, 2016, 11:49:09 AM
Sorry. But can't help but gloat a bit. All that talk about Honda "reliability" and "no need for a fast car".
:nutty:
:lol:
You sure it's rod knock and not lifter tick or something else?
Im gonna get Honda to look at it Friday. Hopefully is nothing
Exhaust leak
Earth Dreams V6 swap. Light 'em up
I checked the oil last night... down 2 quarts out of 4 :banghead:
I did the oil change not even 2-3 months ago. I got the level back up and it sounds a lot better. I guess we will see what happens. Hoping it's just some top end shit, I did have a misshift a couple months ago
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 18, 2016, 05:39:45 AM
I checked the oil last night... down 2 quarts out of 4 :banghead:
I did the oil change not even 2-3 months ago. I got the level back up and it sounds a lot better. I guess we will see what happens. Hoping it's just some top end shit, I did have a misshift a couple months ago
Is there a leak somewhere?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 18, 2016, 05:39:45 AM
I checked the oil last night... down 2 quarts out of 4 :banghead:
I did the oil change not even 2-3 months ago. I got the level back up and it sounds a lot better. I guess we will see what happens. Hoping it's just some top end shit, I did have a misshift a couple months ago
Hopefully it will be something simple. This is why electronic measurements of oil level are a thing.
You car has no oil light or anything? I've been too busy to check the last couple weeks but my oil light popped on and grabbed a quart and I'm good to go now till i can make it to the store and change it.
Quote from: 68_427 on August 18, 2016, 05:59:46 AM
You car has no oil light or anything? I've been too busy to check the last couple weeks but my oil light popped on and grabbed a quart and I'm good to go now till i can make it to the store and change it.
That Honda oil light won't come on until the pressure drops to nuthin.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on August 18, 2016, 05:43:22 AM
Is there a leak somewhere?
Not that I can see.... driveway is bone dry where I park. Bizarre that it would burn that much oil though
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 18, 2016, 06:39:43 AM
That Honda oil light won't come on until the pressure drops to nuthin.
Exactly. Most oil lights mean loss of oil pressure, stop immediately, do not proceed to the next off-ramp. I have seen more than one engine destroyed because somebody saw the oil light come on and decided they would be okay to keep going because their destination was only a couple of more miles.
K series engines do use a hydraulic tensioner for the timing chain, and low oil level can cause that to fail enough to let the timing jump a sprocket, which can sound a hell of a lot like a rod knock.
Also, a valve that's gone badly out of adjustment can also sound almost like a rod knock
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 18, 2016, 07:47:19 AM
Not that I can see.... driveway is bone dry where I park. Bizarre that it would burn that much oil though
Gotta keep out of the VTEC. Preludes were notorious for drinking oil if you spent much time above the VTEC changeover.
I've never heard any Honda fail in such a manner as to where it was still drivable. You sure it's rod knock?
I remember driving a CX-7 that everyone was sure had rod knock, and it was an AC compressor.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 17, 2016, 06:15:52 AM
Rod knock :cry:
On the upside next week looks like it will be cool and dry so I can bike.... but it looks like an engine replacement is in order
Debating whether to just do a straight swap or get a little creative.... but getting the R20 from the ILX would cost an extra $1000 at least for the Flashpro and added cost of the engine
Fucking sucks :cry: I think I need a faster car. I'm very hard on this one to keep moving at a pace I like. Warmed up to the Focus ST but I'm gonna roll with this for a while first.
Impossible! :confused:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 18, 2016, 07:47:19 AM
Not that I can see.... driveway is bone dry where I park. Bizarre that it would burn that much oil though
Should've seen some smoke if it burned that much.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 18, 2016, 08:44:45 AM
K series engines do use a hydraulic tensioner for the timing chain, and low oil level can cause that to fail enough to let the timing jump a sprocket, which can sound a hell of a lot like a rod knock.
Also, a valve that's gone badly out of adjustment can also sound almost like a rod knock
I have the lowly R series, but I would not be surprised if it were the same setup.
Quote from: FoMoJo on August 18, 2016, 10:19:15 AM
Should've seen some smoke if it burned that much.
My engine is drinking oil like crazy and isn't smoking. Little bit of drinking + little bit of leaking and it can go unnoticed unless you keep on top of it.
Plus I think synthetic doesn't smoke as much... and more importantly when I drive I am usually looking forward :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 18, 2016, 11:03:57 AM
Plus I think synthetic doesn't smoke as much... and more importantly when I drive I am usually looking forward :lol:
In the consideration that it might be a valve problem, it would smoke on start up. That it consumed a couple of quarts in a short period of time and began knocking, it would seem too short of a time for a rod, big end, to wear to the point of knocking. I would look at the cylinder head for the problem.
K20A2 swap time.
Fuck that, if I went through all that I'd go with a K24. But it would be cheaper for me to just get a 9th gen. I am pretty sure the next ride is going to be a GTI/Focus ST though. Maybe a Forte5 SX if someone besides a cheapo Taiwanese outfit makes some coilovers for it.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 18, 2016, 01:37:03 PM
Fuck that, if I went through all that I'd go with a K24. But it would be cheaper for me to just get a 9th gen. I am pretty sure the next ride is going to be a GTI/Focus ST though. Maybe a Forte5 SX if someone besides a cheapo Taiwanese outfit makes some coilovers for it.
K24's don't rev that high. K20A2's rev to 7800 stock. If you can find a Z1 out of a newer RSX-S that'll rev to 8100 stock.
Also, what's wrong with cheap Taiwanese coilovers for a DD? :huh:
Turbo Busa swap
Quote from: Cookie Monster on August 18, 2016, 01:40:32 PM
K24's don't rev that high. K20A2's rev to 7800 stock. If you can find a Z1 out of a newer RSX-S that'll rev to 8100 stock.
Also, what's wrong with cheap Taiwanese coilovers for a DD? :huh:
If I wanted an Si I'd have bought one. I didn't like its powerband. Revving in that is mandatory rather than optional. For all that $$$ and hassle I'd rather get the 2L crank and turbo this motor. Plus you have to change the harness and shit... it's a waste of time.
Taiwanese coilovers like D2 etc don't have great dampers. Dampers are critical. The non-adjustable ones I can live with but the adjustable ones... if they don't come with a dyno I wouldn't fuck with them. They're often inconsistent from side to side and even click to click. You go a couple clicks up and come back it's a different setting. I guess on the street that can be OK but I have lots of fun twisty roads on my commute... I don't want wonky damping sapping my confidence. Helps with comfort too.
I drive the shit out of my BC coilovers and I don't give a fuck. :lol:
Same the fuck. Just get the car corner balanced and drive the damn thing. It's a Civic not some carbon tubbed racecar or tubular framed motorcycle. I doubt there's enough rigidity there for you to notice any minute difference between the dampers from corner to corner if set up properly in the first place.
Bad damping is bad damping. It is what it is. And yea it's just a street car, which makes 32 levels of damping that much sillier. One level calibrated to street use and stock weight should be enough (which it is, for me at least)
If I get adjustable coilovers next go around they will be from a company that can back their shit up like Fortune Auto or a race proven outfit like Bilstein/Koni etc.
http://www.fortune-auto.com/shockdynobasics.htm
I've heard good things about Fortune Auto, but I'm pretty sure they all use the same China/Taiwan sourced parts as BC/Megan do and just valve it to their own spec.
Quote from: 68_427 on August 18, 2016, 09:41:48 PM
Same the fuck. Just get the car corner balanced and drive the damn thing. It's a Civic not some carbon tubbed racecar or tubular framed motorcycle. I doubt there's enough rigidity there for you to notice any minute difference between the dampers from corner to corner if set up properly in the first place.
My car isn't corner balanced. The pass. side rear is way too uneven if I do, and looks > performance. :lol: Still handles very well.
The thing I dislike most about cheap coilovers is the lack of preload adjustment.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on August 19, 2016, 09:08:29 AM
I've heard good things about Fortune Auto, but I'm pretty sure they all use the same China/Taiwan sourced parts as BC/Megan do and just valve it to their own spec.
That design/accountability is what makes the difference. You buy Megan/BC/Godspeed etc you have no idea what you are getting. Fortune Auto at least there is some kind of target.
My hunch is Megan/BC etc use one set of shocks for every application. They just change the shaft length and mounts.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 19, 2016, 09:49:26 AM
That design/accountability is what makes the difference. You buy Megan/BC/Godspeed etc you have no idea what you are getting. Fortune Auto at least there is some kind of target.
My hunch is Megan/BC etc use one set of shocks for every application. They just change the shaft length and mounts.
That seems like a stretch.... I know a guy who works at Megan and I can ask but I don't know why you think a $1200 set of FA coilovers would be any different.
Anyways, I feel that unless you're tracking a car competitively, most sets of decently built coilovers would be fine. My BCs ride pretty soft at full soft and feel fine on the track too. Sure they could be better but my until I improve my skills on track I'm not going to bother upgrading and for DD and fun driving use they're more than enough.
The lower end coilover companies don't do anywhere near the tuning the better ones do. The biggest thing you're paying for is the experience of the guys tuning the shocks. I know with Bilstein aftermarket, basically engineers are laying out the dimensionals for piston rods, shock body, determining amount of oil needed, etc. They have a decent idea of where they want to be in terms of rebound and compression. The real value is that there are ride engineers that then go out and tune the vehicle. So they've got calibrated butt cheeks and drive it, figure out where they want to tweak things, take the shock apart and revalve, go drive it again. Rinse and repeat until they're happy. I imagine Ohlin is the same way.
And they're doing this for each product. Companies like Raceland don't do that at all. They just guess at valving and throw something together.
Raceland is the worst of the worst but I would not be surprised if companies like BC don't just have a target ride frequency/Q factor and just have the same dampers sent out for a range of corner weights and motion ratios. I.e. the only difference between coilovers for a Sentra and a Corolla is the mounting bracket. Wouldn't doubt them pulling from that same pool for cars with finicky tuning requirements like the 7th gen Civics or something like the Miata or Z. I have no faith in those companies at all. Only company I would even consider is D2 and even they are so-so. Tein's entry level adjustable coilovers are the same money and legitimately individually tuned.
Back in the demon Civic. Driving around more and listening, I'm thinking/hoping it's a top end thing. The VTEC in this thing is weird so it comes on for economy. The rattle goes away if I cane it and get out of eco-VTEC. I'm going to have Honda look at it while we are on vacation.
Had a little scare... there was some weird knocking on the front left suspension. Cotter pin on the lower balljoint backed out and the nut was loose :mask: I put another one back in and tightened it up. Weird thing is the hole for the cotter pin is way above the nut with this aftermarket kit. Noise seems to have gone away so hopefully that's good.
Hopping back into the car after a few days on the bike... car seems a little sloppy. Shocks could use more rebound and more low speed control in general. Though I know they went softer to maintain ride comfort. Whatever car I get next, I will probably go with a different brand for coilovers. Roads here are generally pretty new and in good shape. I want something more aggressive.
It's the bottom end :( Gonna arrange a replacement while we are away. Wish I had someone like 2o6's homie.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 30, 2016, 10:26:22 AM
It's the bottom end :( Gonna arrange a replacement while we are away. Wish I had someone like 2o6's homie.
Surprising.
That sucks, man. Best of luck.
Did the dealership tell you it's the bottom end?
And replacement car or engine?
Engine, car would not be worth much with a dying engine.
OK, called around. I can get a replacement for about $1000. I can live with that. Gonna give this car another year and a half and move on.
K20 Z1 OR BUST
pls?
Fuck no....... if anything, boost, but I would rather just get a faster car at this point. I'm kind of not minding driving an automatic, which would open things up a LOT....
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on August 30, 2016, 12:55:51 PM
Fuck no....... if anything, boost, but I would rather just get a faster car at this point. I'm kind of not minding driving an automatic, which would open things up a LOT....
wat
Why?! :cry:
Yea no I can't do that. That's too much. MK7 GTI, Focus ST, E90 335i, all 6MT. But we are like a year out from that at least.
Looks like the going rate for engine replacements for the Demon Civic is ~$1100. I can live with that.
Oh god, the Manhattan project has spread to TTAC!
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/09/piston-slap-tsx-brake-upgrade-eighth-generation-civic/
Ugh vellum venom is dumb. I legit cringe at those articles.
Also why don't you just buy some upgraded slotted rotors and ceramic pads? I feel like upgrading them a biggger car won't do shit
Quote from: 2o6 on September 27, 2016, 09:13:10 AM
I legit cringe at those articles.
Do you sometimes fake cringe?
Sporty hot takes:
- bottom end gave out because sporty mis-shifted. Conveniently left that part out of the story here :lol:
- 09 Civic is underrated from the factory by 21 hp.
Quote from: MrH on September 27, 2016, 09:31:46 AM
Sporty hot takes:
- bottom end gave out because sporty mis-shifted. Conveniently left that part out of the story here :lol:
- 09 Civic is underrated from the factory by 21 hp.
:lol:
QuoteI'm down with getting a non-Si, stick-shifted Civic. I considered it until I decided a modest, five-speed compact truck was almost as fun
daym
Quote from: Cookie Monster on August 18, 2016, 05:12:35 PM
I drive the shit out of my BC coilovers and I don't give a fuck. :lol:
I'm wishing I went this route.
Quote from: Char on September 29, 2016, 10:34:35 PM
I'm wishing I went this route.
What do you have on there now?
I have no plans of upgrading mine right now, but if I were to do it again I'd look at FA coilovers as well. I don't think they had released FA ones for my car back then, and I needed something ASAP since my previous set of coilovers didn't work (shitty top hat design) and the car was beached on jack stands.
Still, though, I maintain that on a DD car that won't see the track there is absolutely nothing wrong with BCs. I have 10k/8k springs so yes, the ride won't be comparable to stock, but even on its softer settings it feels fine.
Replace your car with this one. :mask:
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/honda-civic-type-r-prototype-photos-and-info-news
Uglier than any Lexus ever^
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on October 02, 2016, 08:06:26 AM
Replace your car with this one. :mask:
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/honda-civic-type-r-prototype-photos-and-info-news
Plz tell me it is real
New engine feels good. Hoping I get some better gas mileage.... been taking it easy.
Got a lot of maintenance to do. P/S fluid, brake pads/rotors/flush, spark plugs and that ripped ABS wire. Not putting any more $$$ into this car besides maintenance and maybe a bigger rear sway bar. Gonna enjoy it while I have it though
Oh man. If I was paying the money for a new engine and they were already working on it for awhile, I would have just had them finish off all of those maintenance items too.
I had them do some preventative stuff that was easier to get to when the engine was out. Water pump & some seals. The rest of the shit is not that difficult.... I can probably knock it out over a Saturday morning. Only thing I might have someone else do is the brake fluid.
You could get a Motiv Power Bleeder if you have to do it yourself. Just don't fill the tank up with fluid and use the pump only so you don't have to clean it out.
It isn't as easy as just having a second person but it's useful if you're in a bind and don't have anyone to help.
I think I have one laying around somewhere. I liked the Speed Bleeders on my bike though. I will definitely grab those.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 03, 2016, 06:37:08 PM
I think I have one laying around somewhere. I liked the Speed Bleeders on my bike though. I will definitely grab those.
Did they work well for you? I never trusted those as much as the conventional method (though I don't have a good reason not to).
Easy AF. Once I figured out my ass from my elbow it took like 15 minutes. Open the valve, pump, keep the MC full, repeat until the hoses pump clean. No open close bullshit. It's brilliant.
Only thing I'm worried about with the Civic is the ABS circuit. But the fluid has nowhere to go and unlike the Z I haven't seen anyone recommend a pressure bleeder in DIYs.
Gravity bleed. :violin:
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on October 03, 2016, 07:01:56 PM
Gravity bleed. :violin:
(https://memecrunch.com/image/50c6fd6cafa96f38e6000009.jpg?w=367)
:popcorn:
I need to get speed bleeders next time I mess with my brakes. My dad's Camaro has them and it was quick AF last time we bled them.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 03, 2016, 06:53:38 PM
Easy AF. Once I figured out my ass from my elbow it took like 15 minutes. Open the valve, pump, keep the MC full, repeat until the hoses pump clean. No open close bullshit. It's brilliant.
Only thing I'm worried about with the Civic is the ABS circuit. But the fluid has nowhere to go and unlike the Z I haven't seen anyone recommend a pressure bleeder in DIYs.
I know how they work, but I read that air could sometimes get in past the one way valves.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on October 03, 2016, 08:31:57 PM
I know how they work, but I read that air could sometimes get in past the one way valves.
I haven't had any problems on the bike
Man with a healthy engine and these cooler temps the car is kind of running awesome
Cooler temps are also helping the suspension, seems like the shock oil is really susceptible to heat. Def felt *squishy* on the hottest days of summer
Little exhaust leak has me wanting to maybe get an exhaust :mask: I know I said I was done spending money but I'm redoing my headlights :mask:
Hondas love cold air. This cold morning made a huge difference in the Element. It almost snapped my neck back when I punched it off the line.
*also has little exhaust leak
*also needs headlights polished
Hondas.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 11, 2016, 05:36:08 AM
Man with a healthy engine and these cooler temps the car is kind of running awesome
Cooler temps are also helping the suspension, seems like the shock oil is really susceptible to heat. Def felt *squishy* on the hottest days of summer
Little exhaust leak has me wanting to maybe get an exhaust :mask: I know I said I was done spending money but I'm redoing my headlights :mask:
You're overworking your shocks on a hot day? What are you running again?
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on October 11, 2016, 06:08:34 AM
Hondas love cold air. This cold morning made a huge difference in the Element. It almost snapped my neck back when I punched it off the line.
*also has little exhaust leak
*also needs headlights polished
Hondas.
The S2000 was the most sensitive modern car to air temp, elevation and fuel differences that I've ever driven. Only the Beetle was more finicky when it was running dual Webers.
Quote from: MrH on October 11, 2016, 07:17:12 AM
You're overworking your shocks on a hot day? What are you running again?
I'm on ST coilovers. I don't think I'm overworking them... most cars I've had have a discernible change in damping feel as the temperatures change. When it's cold the damping is more brittle, when it's hot it's squishy. I prefer brittle, especially with the smooth ass roads in NC.
My shocks feel different on a cold day. Gotta drive a few miles to warm them up.
I have electric shock warmers installed on the Element. I plug it in every night the temp is expected to drop below 72F.
My whole car feels brittle when it's cold out. :mask:
I don't find that cars feel brittle until temperatures get well below freezing.
I also find it really hard to believe that there's any perceivable difference in damping between shock absorbers at 85-90F and shock absorbers at 55-60F. That's not that large of a temperature swing for oil. More probably, you are feeling the difference in tire pressure, which is ~3-4 psi for a ~30F temperature swing.
Wouldn't tires feel harder in hot weather and squishier in cold? At least based on pressures? I definitely feel the opposite.
And I'm pretty sure it's the shocks. I drive the same stretch of highway home every day. In the summer the car bobs a good bit more than it does now. Low speed damping definitely feels weaker
When I said cold day, I meant in the 30s.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 11, 2016, 05:27:49 PM
Wouldn't tires feel harder in hot weather and squishier in cold? At least based on pressures? I definitely feel the opposite.
And I'm pretty sure it's the shocks. I drive the same stretch of highway home every day. In the summer the car bobs a good bit more than it does now. Low speed damping definitely feels weaker
The tires are a part of the total suspension spring constant ("k"). Damping ratio is a function of 1/sqrt(k). Stiffer tires = higher k = reduction in damping ratio. Stiffer tires can, effectively, make the car less damped. Softer tires, meanwhile, have a lower k value and add damping via sidewall flex, allowing the tire to take on some of the damping duties from the shock absorbers.
My car hates the heat as well. Been thinking about going with a cooler thermostat.
Quote from: 68_427 on October 11, 2016, 10:35:36 PM
My car hates the heat as well. Been thinking about going with a cooler thermostat.
Drill speed holes in thermostat. Speeed hooles.
I also want to put a gopro on the bumper. I think I might shoot flames.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on September 30, 2016, 12:54:25 AM
What do you have on there now?
I have no plans of upgrading mine right now, but if I were to do it again I'd look at FA coilovers as well. I don't think they had released FA ones for my car back then, and I needed something ASAP since my previous set of coilovers didn't work (shitty top hat design) and the car was beached on jack stands.
Still, though, I maintain that on a DD car that won't see the track there is absolutely nothing wrong with BCs. I have 10k/8k springs so yes, the ride won't be comparable to stock, but even on its softer settings it feels fine.
It's H&R on ZSP (sport package) Dampers. I have a set of B16 PSS9s I was going to have revalved for linear springs, but Bilstein isn't really helping me out, plus the cost is
$200 per shock, plus
$450 for the linear springs and another
$450 for camber plates.
@MrH any suggestions?
How much time are you going to spend on the track annually to where you need $7000 coilovers
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 18, 2016, 11:07:38 AM
How much time are you going to spend on the track annually to where you need $7000 coilovers
Exactly.
FYI, if you drive a lot, I would consider the 335i Auto (N55) Or a V6 Mustang
I'm hoping the F30 335s are in shooting range next year (<$20K)
They're getting damn close
No coupes.... big driver of the purchase:
https://www.cars.com/articles/2013/06/2013-bmw-3-series-car-seat-check/
(https://www.cstatic-images.com/stock/765x765/80/2137309974-1425510455080.)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 18, 2016, 11:24:04 AM
I'm hoping the F30 335s are in shooting range next year (<$20K)
They're getting damn close
No coupes.... big driver of the purchase:
https://www.cars.com/articles/2013/06/2013-bmw-3-series-car-seat-check/
(https://www.cstatic-images.com/stock/765x765/80/2137309974-1425510455080.)
Don't do an F30 - an E90 335i N55 (msport) would be the best option.
Quote from: Char on October 18, 2016, 11:02:23 AM
It's H&R on ZSP (sport package) Dampers. I have a set of B16 PSS9s I was going to have revalved for linear springs, but Bilstein isn't really helping me out, plus the cost is $200 per shock, plus $450 for the linear springs and another $450 for camber plates.
@MrH any suggestions?
I guess my first question would be, why are you wanting to go to linear springs instead of the included springs? If you're going custom valve codes, PSS9s probably aren't the best place to start.
Quote from: MrH on October 18, 2016, 11:35:37 AM
I guess my first question would be, why are you wanting to go to linear springs instead of the included springs? If you're going custom valve codes, PSS9s probably aren't the best place to start.
I swooped in and grabbed them for an amazing price - less than the cost for a set of PSS (which is what I was going to grab originally.) I don't need the knobs and such, I'm more concerned with proper valving, and good "performance" and longevity (like I hear Bilstien's have)
Go ahead and put them on. I wouldn't worry about custom springs and valve codes until you try them out. Basically what you're getting is what the ride engineers thought were the best balance. Unless you have very specific needs, you're probably not going to do a whole lot better by getting all this custom stuff done.
Quote from: MrH on October 18, 2016, 11:48:42 AM
Go ahead and put them on. I wouldn't worry about custom springs and valve codes until you try them out. Basically what you're getting is what the ride engineers thought were the best balance. Unless you have very specific needs, you're probably not going to do a whole lot better by getting all this custom stuff done.
AutoX and HPDE.
And one of the adjusters is frozen I think (with no marking...how do I know?!)
Quote from: Char on October 18, 2016, 11:29:05 AM
Don't do an F30 - an E90 335i N55 (msport) would be the best option.
Not for baby seat.......................... E90 is about as small inside as my Civic... they are damn near the same size in and out
Better chassis of the E90 is irrelevant on commute, maybe ~5-10 of my 35 mile commute is on twisties and even then there's traffic
Plus biek
I prefer the E90 but there are bigger considerations at play
The F30 is about the same size inside as the E90
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 18, 2016, 01:08:51 PM
Not for baby seat.......................... E90 is about as small inside as my Civic... they are damn near the same size in and out
Better chassis of the E90 is irrelevant on commute, maybe ~5-10 of my 35 mile commute is on twisties and even then there's traffic
Plus biek
I prefer the E90 but there are bigger considerations at play
Fuel economy, reliability, upkeep and space are all considerations. But I don't really see any issues with the N55 powerplant, and you get MORE car with an E90 than you do with the F30. Plus the E90 looks better.
I'm also really in love with the Accord Sport - Goodness what an attractive car.
I dont like the latest Accord
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 18, 2016, 05:39:31 PM
I dont like the latest Accord
I can't remember the last time I liked ANY Accord...... Or Honda product! S2000?
Got brakes. Generic rotors and Stoptech Sport pads. Just keeping it basic and minimizing cost without being a total cheapass. Gotta bed the brakes in right
I like brakes. Good brakes on a slow car at least make stopping fun.
Meh, I run Centric blanks in my car. Costs like $140 shipped for all 4.
When the fuck am I gonna get the time to do this shit :facepalm:
Gotta clean out the garage too, winter is coming.
Your winters are nothing. You can work in the garage in winter.
I might buy a heater for the garage this winter. I've got a lot of s2000 work to do
Real question is - why you so slow? I can do brakes in like 35 minutes a side. :devil:
Quote from: 2o6 on October 22, 2016, 10:08:53 AM
Real question is - why you so slow? I can do brakes in like 35 minutes a side. :devil:
For me, at least, it takes a while because I spend at least 30 minutes complaining about how I don't want to work.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on October 22, 2016, 11:02:20 AM
For me, at least, it takes a while because I spend at least 30 minutes complaining about how I don't want to work.
LOL lazyass.
If I don't have a garage with a lift, it can take me all day. I spend an hour unfolding cardboard boxes and setting them around the car. Playing with jacks, jackstands, and scraps of 2x4. Spraying fireants with pesticides. Going in and out of the house getting beers. Etc. Etc.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on October 22, 2016, 11:20:24 AM
LOL lazyass.
If I don't have a garage with a lift, it can take me all day. I spend an hour unfolding cardboard boxes and setting them around the car. Playing with jacks, jackstands, and scraps of 2x4. Spraying fireants with pesticides. Going in and out of the house getting beers. Etc. Etc.
My new place has a lift. :rockon:
Unfortunately, I still have to do the engine/diff oil and brake fluid tomorrow on the garage floor since I haven't moved into the new place yet. :cry:
Quote from: Cookie Monster on October 22, 2016, 05:56:42 PM
My new place has a lift. :rockon:
Unfortunately, I still have to do the engine/diff oil and brake fluid tomorrow on the garage floor since I haven't moved into the new place yet. :cry:
What place is this with a lift?
Are you moving out, moving jobs, moving friends?
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 22, 2016, 07:08:14 PM
Are you moving out, moving jobs, moving friends?
Moving out. Found a killer deal on a baller place.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on October 22, 2016, 07:21:52 PM
Moving out. Found a killer deal on a baller place.
It has a lift. It must be baller.
Link! I want to say what place comes with a lift
For real
Fuck that, I'm not giving you fuckers my address. :lol:
I'll take some pics and post up a new thread when I move in.
Is it in SF?
Yea we need deets bro
I would kill for a home lift.... $1500 is just a little too rich for this right now
(https://www.quickjack.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/600x/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/b/l/bl5000xl-portable-car-lift_1.jpg)
Maybe I could rent it out to recoup
It's in San Jose. I'm transferring offices.
It's one of these lifts:
(http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/121265367089-0-1/s-l1000.jpg)
I've seen it :devil:
:lol:
So does this commence project "Make Green Tin Can Streetable Again?" :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 23, 2016, 06:56:36 AM
Yea we need deets bro
I would kill for a home lift.... $1500 is just a little too rich for this right now
(https://www.quickjack.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/600x/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/b/l/bl5000xl-portable-car-lift_1.jpg)
Maybe I could rent it out to recoup
I was looking at those. They're really cool, I'd like to have a set, but yeah, at $1500, I can't justify it either.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 23, 2016, 03:24:47 PM
So does this commence project "Make Green Tin Can Streetable Again?" :lol:
Hell no. :lol:
I just put the OEM muffler back on for Laguna. Now I'm depressed because that thing is fucking heavy and I had to take the tow hitch off.
Quote from: MrH on October 23, 2016, 03:26:55 PM
I was looking at those. They're really cool, I'd like to have a set, but yeah, at $1500, I can't justify it either.
Same here... My biggest problem was getting one that could handle my Jeep but fit under the Mazda
Fuck, that sucks. I didn't even check clearance
Ermahgerd, you're transferring to SJ?! Congrats! What the hell are you going to do with all that time you'll be reclaiming?
Quote from: Laconian on October 23, 2016, 06:23:51 PM
Ermahgerd, you're transferring to SJ?! Congrats! What the hell are you going to do with all that time you'll be reclaiming?
Thanks! The office culture isn't quite as nice as SF (way too intense), but my work was suffering this past year, and while the SF office goes out to happy hours and such a lot, I can never really enjoy them since I have to ride home anyways.
I'm so looking forward to the commute. 7 miles each way compared to 43.
Quote from: MrH on October 23, 2016, 03:26:55 PM
I was looking at those. They're really cool, I'd like to have a set, but yeah, at $1500, I can't justify it either.
Make your own dewd
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 23, 2016, 06:56:36 AM
Yea we need deets bro
I would kill for a home lift.... $1500 is just a little too rich for this right now
(https://www.quickjack.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/thumbnail/600x/17f82f742ffe127f42dca9de82fb58b1/b/l/bl5000xl-portable-car-lift_1.jpg)
Maybe I could rent it out to recoup
What keeps that from collapsing on you????
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on October 24, 2016, 06:48:39 AM
What keeps that from collapsing on you????
(https://imgflip.com/s/meme/Ancient-Aliens.jpg)
I'm thinking there is some kind of ratcheting mechanism or safety lock? I would definitely double up with jackstands (not sure where though)
Guys we should do a timeshare on this thing. I wanna do my brakes this weekend.... I'm gonna spend more time jacking the car up and down than doing the work :facepalm:
How long does it take you to jack the car up and down? :confused: :wtf:
It takes like 2 min to get the car on 4 jack stands. I just don't like crawling on the ground to access stuff under the car.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on October 26, 2016, 01:06:57 PM
How long does it take you to jack the car up and down? :confused: :wtf:
It takes like 2 min to get the car on 4 jack stands. I just don't like crawling on the ground to access stuff under the car.
If you're using the emergency jack it's a serious pain......
Naw I have a hydraulic jack. Maybe I need to buy another pair of jackstands.
I prefer to use ramps instead of jackstands, if I can. It's even easier.
Not seeing how I could use ramps to do brakes
Ramps take up a ton of room in the garage and still doesn't let you do any work where the wheels have to come off.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 28, 2016, 05:44:11 AM
Naw I have a hydraulic jack. Maybe I need to buy another pair of jackstands.
The price is well worth the extra convenience.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on October 28, 2016, 08:38:11 AM
Ramps take up a ton of room in the garage and still doesn't let you do any work where the wheels have to come off.
My ramp sits on the short side in a corner of my garage
They are pretty much only good for changing oil though and even that is so-so since they slide. You need a sturdy curb to anchor them to
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 28, 2016, 10:38:49 AM
My ramp sits on the short side in a corner of my garage
They are pretty much only good for changing oil though and even that is so-so since they slide. You need a sturdy curb to anchor them to
No, I mean they have to be super long to get any sort of height since my car is too low.
You can still lay a super long ramp on its short side. A garage is what.... 8 ft tall? That's plenty for a long ramp.
(http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu91/okmtbr/ramps.jpg)
Still easier to just use jack stands. :huh:
Can't really transport the ramps, either, and you have to have them anchored somehow so they don't slide when you try to drive up them.
I use the plastic ramps that come apart for easy storage. Half the time I don't drive up, I just use a jack and then rest the tires on the ramps. Usually gives you more space to move under the car, since you don't have to work around jackstands.
Ramps are bigger than jack stands, though... :confused:
Again, mine have two pieces. One part is the actual ramp, the other part is the flat elevated surface where the tire sits. If you just use that part, the car is magically 8 inches higher with just a block under the wheels, which don't get in the way any more than the wheels themselves would.
O now that's a good idea. Where did you buy that
I still need a way to brace the ramps in my garage though.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 28, 2016, 12:53:33 PM
Again, mine have two pieces. One part is the actual ramp, the other part is the flat elevated surface where the tire sits. If you just use that part, the car is magically 8 inches higher with just a block under the wheels, which don't get in the way any more than the wheels themselves would.
Oh, I see.
I still don't see how it's any less in the way than a jack stand, but whatever.
Only time I use ramps is for oily changes. Tacoma doesn't need any elevation for oily changes.
Stands are cheap. Can get a pair of 3-ton stands at Walmart for like $20, and a 6-ton bottle jack for the same price. I couldn't fit a 6-ton bottle jack under the Audi from the ground, so I had to use the mini 3-ton and then the high-lift 6-ton to get the wheels off the ground. Usually just ended up using the scissor jack instead. :lol:
Now that I have Tacoma, nearly maxing out my 3-ton stands to get the wheels off the ground is freaky. I need a nice high-lift (not-bottle) jack and some truck stands with nice wide bases.
They make scissor jacks with 1/2" drives.... I mite do that. Hydraulic jacks are a PITA IMO
What's wrong with a hydraulic floor jack?
Hydraulic is way faster
Just get a floor jack???
Quote from: 2o6 on October 28, 2016, 08:28:36 PM
Just get a floor jack???
Indubitably. I recommend a low profile aluminum jack, and a two post frame lift.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on October 28, 2016, 08:39:53 PM
Indubitably. I recommend a low profile aluminum jack, and a two post frame lift.
:rolleyes:
You get one in your personal garage then you can recommend. ;) Cuz I recommend a shop that has a lift and industrial air hoses, exhaust hose/fan system, and super-well equipped tool shop. :lol:
Quote from: Cookie Monster on October 28, 2016, 06:46:34 PM
What's wrong with a hydraulic floor jack?
Car is too low plus my garage is a mess so having the jack out to the side + the stick = interference. Plus if I can have something that uses a power tool I want it
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on October 29, 2016, 10:52:22 AM
:rolleyes:
You get one in your personal garage then you can recommend. ;) Cuz I recommend a shop that has a lift and industrial air hoses, exhaust hose/fan system, and super-well equipped tool shop. :lol:
I recommend hiring a telepathic NASCAR pit crew.
I have an aluminum craftsman floor jack... If if fits under my Mazda, it will fit under a civic :huh:
Quote from: r0tor on October 29, 2016, 03:54:18 PM
I have an aluminum craftsman floor jack... If if fits under my Mazda, it will fit under a civic :huh:
No way, dude. Hondas are totally way stanced out.
I have to lift the Civic to get the jack under sometimes. Squatting 235lbs sounds like less work than getting my brakes done right now.... hopefully I can do both
You are physically lifting your car to get your jack under it...? Wut
Get a small 2x4 and drive onto it before jacking it up :huh:
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 30, 2016, 01:38:52 PM
Get a small 2x4 and drive onto it before jacking it up :huh:
Yup...
Quote from: CaminoRacer on October 30, 2016, 01:38:52 PM
Get a small 2x4 and drive onto it before jacking it up :huh:
Woodworking can be quite impossible for some people. We should be careful not to encourage it so haphazardly, or someone may end up with several scraps of wood nailed to their radiator, and just as many finger tips missing from their hands.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on October 30, 2016, 02:59:03 PM
Woodworking can be quite impossible for some people. We should be careful not to encourage it so haphazardly, or someone may end up with several scraps of wood nailed to their radiator, and just as many finger tips missing from their hands.
:lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 30, 2016, 12:40:14 PM
I have to lift the Civic to get the jack under sometimes. Squatting 235lbs sounds like less work than getting my brakes done right now.... hopefully I can do both
My side skirts are 3" off the ground and I still fit a jack under it... There are these things called low profile jacks
Lol. My car is lowered quite a bit plus has bigger aftermarket side skirts and I can jack it up just fine with a hydraulic low profile jack.
Sporty just likes to be contrarian for no reason.
If you have to lift your civic to get a jack under you have the wrong jack. I know you're lowered slightly but I don't even have that problem.
It is a cheapo regular jack
I don't wanna spend 150 on a low profile one if I'm getting another car next year
I'd rather just complain
Another car that you might lower? Just do it mang
Harbor Freight jack is like $65...
Come on bro. 1 I already have a jack. How do you think I swapped over my sweet coiloverz? 2 your guesstimate is a lie
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=low+profile+jack
Last time I was there the only one they had was $140. And as you see the handle is huge:
(http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_23414.jpg)
I do all my work in my garage... even if I clean it out, if I want to jack up both sides of the car this shit's not gonna fly. Not enough room. Probably not enough room if I parked the car on one side.
I like this (http://www.harborfreight.com/2-1-2-half-ton-trailer-stabilizer-jack-96406.html) cause I can just throw the socket on the impact gun and it won't take up a ton of room. Just have to be super quick about getting it under stands. I will probably go this route.
If there were something in the middle for like $500 I could do it. Like a big scissor jack that could just do one end of the car or something.
Wait, so you're actually physically trying to pick up your car to get your jack under it? I still can't picture what you're doing exactly?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 31, 2016, 10:36:22 AM
Come on bro. 1 I already have a jack. How do you think I swapped over my sweet coiloverz? 2 your guesstimate is a lie
http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=low+profile+jack
Last time I was there the only one they had was $140. And as you see the handle is huge:
(http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_23414.jpg)
I do all my work in my garage... even if I clean it out, if I want to jack up both sides of the car this shit's not gonna fly. Not enough room. Probably not enough room if I parked the car on one side.
I like this (http://www.harborfreight.com/2-1-2-half-ton-trailer-stabilizer-jack-96406.html) cause I can just throw the socket on the impact gun and it won't take up a ton of room. Just have to be super quick about getting it under stands. I will probably go this route.
If there were something in the middle for like $500 I could do it. Like a big scissor jack that could just do one end of the car or something.
Broseph pls:
http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/floor-jacks/15-ton-compact-aluminum-racing-floor-jack-with-rapid-pump-62160.html
That thing gets under my low, riced out car. And it's on sale all the time at HF. If you pay retail for anything at HF maybe you deserve to use a shitty scissor jack anyways.
I have the little one. Good for portability and fits under the car well, only drawback is limited lift height.
Quote from: MrH on October 31, 2016, 11:25:19 AM
Wait, so you're actually physically trying to pick up your car to get your jack under it? I still can't picture what you're doing exactly?
The jack point is like 1/4" lower than the jack up front. Sometimes I have to lift the car by the fender and kick the jack under to get it at the right place. Not really a ricey thing.... Z had the same problem stock, car is not that low.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on October 31, 2016, 12:18:15 PM
Broseph pls:
http://www.harborfreight.com/automotive-motorcycle/floor-jacks/15-ton-compact-aluminum-racing-floor-jack-with-rapid-pump-62160.html
That thing gets under my low, riced out car. And it's on sale all the time at HF. If you pay retail for anything at HF maybe you deserve to use a shitty scissor jack anyways.
The thing could be free; still wouldn't address the issue of garage space. I don't work on my cars outside, sport. I'm a man of means :praise:
This conversation is so much :facepalm: and :wtf:.
You're literally trying to pick your car up by the fender and kick a jack under it instead of paying $60? :wtf:
I feel like the more I hear about sporty's daily life, the more confused I am.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 31, 2016, 01:18:38 PM
The jack point is like 1/4" lower than the jack up front. Sometimes I have to lift the car by the fender and kick the jack under to get it at the right place. Not really a ricey thing.... Z had the same problem stock, car is not that low.
The thing could be free; still wouldn't address the issue of garage space. I don't work on my cars outside, sport. I'm a man of means :praise:
So put the jack at an angle so the handle isn't perpendicular to the car? If you have enough space to open the door to the car you have the space to use a jack.
Nice way to fuck up your fenders by lifting up from there. C'mon man, I didn't think you were so ghetto.
My parent's garage is super cramped as well and i've jacked up the Miata and my dad's G countless times (the G, not so much, but still).
Quote from: MrH on October 31, 2016, 02:55:50 PM
You're literally trying to pick your car up by the fender and kick a jack under it instead of paying $60? :wtf:
I feel like the more I hear about sporty's daily life, the more confused I am.
You're very easily confused though
Quote from: Cookie Monster on October 31, 2016, 03:20:44 PM
So put the jack at an angle so the handle isn't perpendicular to the car? If you have enough space to open the door to the car you have the space to use a jack.
Nice way to fuck up your fenders by lifting up from there. C'mon man, I didn't think you were so ghetto.
My parent's garage is super cramped as well and i've jacked up the Miata and my dad's G countless times (the G, not so much, but still).
I'm getting the scissor jack with the nut drive.... there's nothing the low profile jack will do better for me
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 31, 2016, 03:57:43 PM
You're very easily confused though
I'm getting the scissor jack with the nut drive.... there's nothing the low profile jack will do better for me
Not bend and fall over?
Quote from: Cookie Monster on October 31, 2016, 04:09:26 PM
Not bend and fall over?
On a concrete floor? :confused: Locked into the jacking point? :confused:
You do things your way and I will do them mine :ohyeah:
Quote from: MrH on October 31, 2016, 02:55:50 PM
You're literally trying to pick your car up by the fender and kick a jack under it instead of paying $60? :wtf:
I feel like the more I hear about sporty's daily life, the more confused I am.
Repression dude... It's real
Did the front brakes.... new rotors + pads and I fixed the ripped ABS sensor wire. Much better, no more vibration and it seems to grab a little harder. Might return the back pads, they have plenty of meat.
I got my tires about a year ago.... fronts are done :wtf: Gonna get a new set and put the rear ones up front. It was that month or so where I was out of alignment I think. Gonna have them flush my brakes and do my P/S fluid too.
Eh, wiggling the car a 1/4 inch doesn't take much force. You're literally just bouncing the springs a little. (Hint; if it took much force, the fender would crumple anyways).
WTF kind of tires only last a year, unless you got some cheater slicks? :wtf:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 07, 2016, 10:12:55 AM
Eh, wiggling the car a 1/4 inch doesn't take much force. You're literally just bouncing the springs a little. (Hint; if it took much force, the fender would crumple anyways).
Let them have their fun.... Mr. H worked at a suspension company but doesn't know how little force it takes to lift a corner of a car a fraction of an inch :lol:
I figured out how to get around that anyway... car is slightly raked so I just place the jack further back on the rail and put the jack stand under the mounting point. Problem solved for free
Fuck floor jacks. Gotta get those gains somehow. SWOLL.
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 07, 2016, 11:01:26 AM
Fuck floor jacks. Gotta get those gains somehow. SWOLL.
BEEFCAKE
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 07, 2016, 10:12:55 AM
Eh, wiggling the car a 1/4 inch doesn't take much force. You're literally just bouncing the springs a little. (Hint; if it took much force, the fender would crumple anyways).
I'm just imagining sporty wrapping his knees, putting on a belt, chugging some preworkout. Calls his wife out to the garage. "Woman, I gotta work on the car, come help"
He grabs the fender, tries to deadlift the thing while his wife is trying to line up the jack :lol:
I know it doesn't take a ton of force, but the whole idea is so funny I can't help but laugh. Most people would just go buy the cheap low profile jack from Harbor. Not sporty though.
I do have to say, a decent jack makes things a bit easier.
My front crossmember is usually a bit too low for our main jack. I'll either pull up on the bumper a bit or get the jack underneath as much as possible and jack it up a bit, then reset it in the proper spot.
I like my low profile aluminum jack, but it can't lift the car as high.
Quote from: MrH on November 07, 2016, 11:19:58 AM
I'm just imagining sporty wrapping his knees, putting on a belt, chugging some preworkout. Calls his wife out to the garage. "Woman, I gotta work on the car, come help"
He grabs the fender, tries to deadlift the thing while his wife is trying to line up the jack :lol:
I know it doesn't take a ton of force, but the whole idea is so funny I can't help but laugh. Most people would just go buy the cheap low profile jack from Harbor. Not sporty though.
You regularly demonstrate having a rough time with understanding simple things though.
Why would I buy a second jack if the one I have works just about as well? Low profile jack would not add much value over the one I have. That scissor lift definitely would though
front crossmember of Legacy was just a radiator holder btw. (somehow didn't bust the radiator, but pushed up the hood an inch.) :rage:
I think I'm gonna run extended studs + spacers all around. Not feeling the sunk battleship look. Wheel bearings are cheap and easy to replace :lol: I can even get those cheesy fake titanium look lugnuts #ricer
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 11, 2016, 10:59:49 AM
I think I'm gonna run extended studs + spacers all around. Not feeling the sunk battleship look. Wheel bearings are cheap and easy to replace :lol: I can even get those cheesy fake titanium look lugnuts #ricer
scrub radius
Car is lowered an inch and a half, geometry is ruined as is
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 11, 2016, 11:31:40 AM
Car is lowered an inch and a half, geometry is ruined as is
Might as well make it worse :lol:
Enjoy the ride :rastaman: Def not spending $$$ on new wheels/tires. Next car
So, extra wide track on the stock wheels? Studs are a PiTA. If you want, you can get extended thread lug nuts. They stick into the wheel past the taper just a few mm to grab more threads.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 11, 2016, 02:37:51 PM
So, extra wide track on the stock wheels? Studs are a PiTA. If you want, you can get extended thread lug nuts. They stick into the wheel past the taper just a few mm to grab more threads.
That can't really be a thing, can it?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 11, 2016, 02:48:31 PM
That can't really be a thing, can it?
Yes, and they work well. I used them on Swift when I put Maxima wheels on it.
I also used them on Accent with the aftermarket wheels, though I had to drill a tiny amount of aluminum out of the hole.
Seems sketchy at best.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 11, 2016, 03:45:25 PM
Seems sketchy at best.
Sketchy is everyone else just expects you to make do with three threads of engagement on regular lug nuts (including certain major wheel/tire retailers). Believe it or not, I don't actually half ass this stuff. I full ass.
I don't drive nice enough for half ass to last.
Yah doing the studs take a cool hour or so with most of the work being jacking + taking wheels on and off. Hammer out, hammer in
Just get spacers with studs in them -shrug-
I don't trust those. ARP extended studs please
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 11, 2016, 04:19:18 PM
I don't trust those. ARP extended studs please
Good. How thick ass are these spacers going to be, anyway?
20mm most likely
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 11, 2016, 04:54:48 PM
20mm most likely
That is big. I wonder if your fenders will survive.
Why come ARP doesn't list any extended studs for Nissans? I feel left out.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 11, 2016, 04:19:18 PM
I don't trust those. ARP extended studs please
much more trustworthy then long ass studs -shrug-
Quote from: r0tor on November 12, 2016, 09:01:37 AM
much more trustworthy then long ass studs -shrug-
This statement is invalid.
Don't know why but I get a huge sense of accomplishment from finishing an oil change. Quadruple checked everything, gonna try and check the level with each fill up.
Thing's probably gonna turn over 120K miles by next spring.... hopefully will be time to move on. It was fun though, it's stance still makes me chuckle
Quote from: r0tor on November 12, 2016, 09:01:37 AM
much more trustworthy then long ass studs -shrug-
:wtf:
ARP >>> any shitty spacer. Get the ARP studs and then throw some giant spacers on there if you want and then replace wheel bearings with every oil change. :devil: :lol:
120K is a lot of miles. I hope you've been using TOP TIER™ Detergent Gasoline.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on November 19, 2016, 01:31:02 PM
:wtf:
ARP >>> any shitty spacer. Get the ARP studs and then throw some giant spacers on there if you want and then replace wheel bearings with every oil change. :devil: :lol:
Spacers with studs are old racing tech that is pretty well proven
Quote from: r0tor on November 19, 2016, 09:11:09 PM
Spacers with studs are old racing tech that is pretty well proven
Yeah but. Those spacers have to be at least as thick as originsl studs, unless you replace them with shorter ones.
Yea I don't think I need to go that extreme.
Prob gonna have to put the spacers on hold. Sounds like a bushing is bad in the back.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 20, 2016, 02:02:10 AM
Yeah but. Those spacers have to be at least as thick as originsl studs, unless you replace them with shorter ones.
Nah, just cut the original studs down.
Quote from: MX793 on November 20, 2016, 03:17:21 PM
Nah, just cut the original studs down.
Fine, make sense.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 20, 2016, 07:04:05 AM
Yea I don't think I need to go that extreme.
Prob gonna have to put the spacers on hold. Sounds like a bushing is bad in the back.
Straight pipe exhaust. No more hearing bad bushing.
Damn, got a lot of shit to take care of. Need new front tires and I gotta find out what the hell is clunking out back. Will be a good excuse to get ES bushings. All just in time to sell it next year
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 24, 2016, 12:29:56 PM
Damn, got a lot of shit to take care of. Need new front tires and I gotta find out what the hell is clunking out back. Will be a good excuse to get ES bushings. All just in time to sell it next year
ES bushings are what?
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 24, 2016, 12:33:41 PM
ES bushings are what?
Energy Suspension bushings. I'm thinking a rear shock bushing went. I will give it a look this weekend
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 24, 2016, 12:45:34 PM
Energy Suspension bushings. I'm thinking a rear shock bushing went. I will give it a look this weekend
Oh yeah, duh. Bushings are a PITA, like wheel studs. You love the fun stuff.
Bushings are over the line for me. I will leave those to the stealership. Studs are probably off the table too
We did bushings once.
Never going that again without proper tools.
Whats so hard about bearings and bushings? :huh:
Quote from: CaminoRacer on November 24, 2016, 01:21:49 PM
Whats do hard about bearings and bushings? :huh:
I know. Just use the oxy-acetylene torch and bam.
Looked at suspension diagrams.... if it's the shock bushing it will be easy. Just gotta pop the shock out. Disappointed that the bushing is toast in like 6 months. Gonna see what Honda says when I take it in.
Sometimes it is better to look at the actual car when trying to spot a bad bushing. :lol:
"New" engine feels pretty good. May just be the cool air but still.... it's in the 70s today and it's still putting in twork. Been averaging 27-28 MPG too which is incredible considering how I drive. Still bored though and ready for the next project.
Did a 0-60 app. 8.4 seconds :facepalm: I want to find one that can do 5-60
Launch control
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 04, 2016, 05:25:53 PM
Did a 0-60 app. 8.4 seconds :facepalm: I want to find one that can do 5-60
I never seem to be able to get a good launch when I attempt that. I launch perfectly when I do autox but for some reason on the street I can't get myself to do it.
C&D got 7.7s stock. I can get a decent launch at a light if I concentrate. I need new front tires as well. I really just want to see the 5-60 time. The app I have only allows starts in 10 MPH increments :facepalm:
I wish there were a 1/4 mile track around here. There are only 1/8ths
I just have a mental block wrt 3k clutch dumps on the street.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on December 04, 2016, 11:38:59 PM
I just have a mental block wrt 3k clutch dumps on the street.
That is not a bad thing ... for your license ... pussy :devil:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 04, 2016, 05:25:53 PM
Did a 0-60 app. 8.4 seconds :facepalm: I want to find one that can do 5-60
Should have gotten a Versa S
yep
(http://i.imgur.com/8ZhPHTX.jpg)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 18, 2016, 11:17:51 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/8ZhPHTX.jpg)
The proper method would include an average of the three runs.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 18, 2016, 11:55:51 AM
The proper method would include an average of the three runs.
(http://cdn3.sbnation.com/assets/3914361/Russ-Troll.gif?_ga=1.197388011.572984712.1424373408)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 18, 2016, 11:17:51 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/8ZhPHTX.jpg)
Car really seems to suffer some power loss at altitude.
"New" engine burns oil. Def gonna stay on top of that. This thing's gotta go
Random Civic thoughts
Car has been running pretty well... got 28 MPGs on a recent tank but it's usually 26-27. Raised the right rear corner... I didn't tighten the set screw on the collar and it was sagging. Rear rattling noise seems to have gone away and the stance looks a lot better. A little disconcerting that there's like 1" difference in the collar height to get the same height in the rear though.
New engine isn't doing too bad... it has a little knock/rattle when it's cold but it goes away when it's warm. Just have to take it easy until the engine warms up. I got scared that the new engine was bad but the knocking is light and disappears once the engine reaches temp. When the last one went the knocking got louder and louder and didn't disappear with warm weather.
Wifey's car is the priority for this year so IDK that I will be able to replace Demon Civic this year. We did just pay wifey's car off though. IDK, we'll see
Why do you call it demon Civic?
Quote from: CALL_911 on January 31, 2017, 10:31:13 PM
Why do you call it demon Civic?
Can only assume because it is more powerful than the new Dodge Demon...?
It's so fast and handles so well it tempts him to break the speed limit?
Quote from: SJ_GTI on February 01, 2017, 05:53:44 AM
Can only assume because it is more powerful than the new Dodge Demon...?
Or maybe it's an undercover test car for Dodge. :hmm:
Woke up today, right rear tire was flat. I haven't had a flat tire in 15 years. Under warranty though
I call it a demon the same reason I call my 15lb dachshund a demon.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 01, 2017, 06:44:46 AM
Woke up today, right rear tire was flat. I haven't had a flat tire in 15 years. Under warranty though
I call it a demon the same reason I call my 15lb dachshund a demon.
You dachshund is also more powerful than the Dodge Demon...?
Quote from: CALL_911 on January 31, 2017, 10:31:13 PM
Why do you call it demon Civic?
It's riddled with demons (issues)...
Civic is the correct car. Civic can stay, just like datsun dog.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Wc_q_4blyw
Cant see here but Im guessing that's The Smoking Tire's one take from this morning? Impressive but a little weird. Runs 11s but shifts 4 times in the quarter
Anyway, update on the car, I think the rear shocks are on their way out. They are covered under warranty, but that's kind of stupid... what do I drive on in the meantime? I ordered some Koni Yellows. $300 or so for a set, not bad.
O man, Koni all the things :wub: Rear shocks were definitely blown. Disappointed, KW is supposed to be quality. Seems like there's separate low + high speed valving and the high speed valving went. So quiet! Looking forward to the commute tomorrow. REALLY looking forward to the shock for the bike
I want a Civic rap
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd_6P_AQj6U
You know whats fucked up
I dont know if you remember 3-6 Mafia's "Riding Spinners" song.... but in college a buddy and I were fucking around in the studio and did "Riding Civics"
I remember one of the lines being something about revving to 4K to leave a stop light... fun times :lol: Lost it of course
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 24, 2017, 05:23:31 AM
You know whats fucked up
I dont know if you remember 3-6 Mafia's "Riding Spinners" song.... but in college a buddy and I were fucking around in the studio and did "Riding Civics"
I remember one of the lines being something about revving to 4K to leave a stop light... fun times :lol: Lost it of course
:lol:
Ugh fuck this car
Ps pump bracket broke. Looks like whoever swapped it broke it and shit welded it. Just out of warranty. Might have to go car shopping for real
So many questions.
Why was it swapped?
How hard is it to put a new bracket in?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 24, 2017, 05:23:31 AM
You know whats fucked up
I dont know if you remember 3-6 Mafia's "Riding Spinners" song.... but in college a buddy and I were fucking around in the studio and did "Riding Civics"
I remember one of the lines being something about revving to 4K to leave a stop light... fun times :lol: Lost it of course
There was a Civic one from High School, parody of Vanilla Ice. Probably pretty horrible but the one line I remember was "rollin, in my 2.0 with the plastic in the back where the window goes."
Quote from: Rich on March 03, 2017, 01:13:34 PM
So many questions.
Why was it swapped?
How hard is it to put a new bracket in?
I spun a bearing, got a cheapo engine replacement.
Bracket isn't a bracket, its the bolt hole for the PS pump on the timing chain cover.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 03, 2017, 11:33:18 AM
Ugh fuck this car
Ps pump bracket broke. Looks like whoever swapped it broke it and shit welded it. Just out of warranty. Might have to go car shopping for real
Chevy SS?
Or do you wanna buy my Golf R? :devil:
Quote from: SJ_GTI on March 03, 2017, 02:35:26 PM
Chevy SS?
Or do you wanna buy my Golf R? :devil:
TBH your Gold R would be perfect. I think Cougs wants one too
I would "settle" for a same vintage GTI 6MT. Aside from the engine note, tactility, and long term reliability.... it's the right thing to do.
My family's had 4 VWs, 3 of them for more than 3-4 years. We've had good luck with each of them.
lol maybe don't drive so hard??? I have never heard of one of these with this many problems.
My friend has one just like yours and it's nearing 300k (!!) and it's generally problem free. :huh:
I need something I don't have to drive as hard to go as fast. I could make similar haste in the Z with half the revs
Plus this wasn't a result of me driving hard, it was a result of me cheaping out on the swap. You live and learn
Seriously though, don't discount the GTI because of its supposed poor reliability. It's a great car if a little boring
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 04, 2017, 10:20:55 AM
I need something I don't have to drive as hard to go as fast. I could make similar haste in the Z with half the revs
Plus this wasn't a result of me driving hard, it was a result of me cheaping out on the swap. You live and learn
*cough*Celeron*cough* Don't cheap out when you've sunk 80% of the costs in better stuff.
Quote from: Laconian on March 04, 2017, 12:01:35 PM
*cough*Celeron*cough* Don't cheap out when you've sunk 80% of the costs in better stuff.
*cough*Civic Si*cough*
wait wat
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 04, 2017, 10:20:55 AM
I need something I don't have to drive as hard to go as fast. I could make similar haste in the Z with half the revs
Plus this wasn't a result of me driving hard, it was a result of me cheaping out on the swap. You live and learn
What? You said you misshifted, over revved it, and that's how you needed a new engine. This is exactly a result of driving hard :lol:
Right? I am not exactly EASY on a car, but IDK why this car is so "problematic"
Quote from: MrH on March 04, 2017, 12:05:25 PM
What? You said you misshifted, over revved it, and that's how you needed a new engine. This is exactly a result of driving hard :lol:
If I had got the engine through Honda rather than from a junkyard it's pretty much impossible this bracket would have broken
This is a result of where I got the engine, not needing a swap in the first place
If these guys had done engine out work on my old engine the same shit could have happened
Quote from: CALL_911 on March 04, 2017, 10:06:37 AM
My family's had 4 VWs, 3 of them for more than 3-4 years. We've had good luck with each of them.
3-4 years, huh?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on March 04, 2017, 01:23:14 PM
3-4 years, huh?
Sporty's probably not keeping his next car longer than that
Quote from: CALL_911 on March 04, 2017, 02:21:56 PM
Sporty's probably not keeping his next car longer than that
Well, apparently it's kind of like a dog years vs. real years kind of thing.
3-4 sporty years is 20 regular car years?
:popcorn:
Management gave the green light for a new ride. I typed out a long explanation for what I plan on getting but I think it will be more triggering to keep you guys in the dark. Once I get the Civic back it's getting detailed and going up for sale.
Stanced Camry is coming!
Quote from: MrH on March 11, 2017, 08:59:18 AM
Stanced Camry is coming!
No, not this one. But it is inevitable.
at least you won't be able to miss a shift this time
:devil:
Shifting is still in the cards. I'm still not sure I can live with an automatic daily driver, though the Jetta & 328i rentals were not bad.
Finally got the Civic back. Looks like everything is on the up and up. It's a fun little thing for sure.... I was shocked by the amount of grip it has, and the steering is even better than I remembered. But I'm dreading having to commute in it while the Rabbit gets fixed. G has a hair more road noise than I'd like but the Civic is like an empty cargo van.
Only things left to do now are get a new front bumper (it caught on my bike's wheel stand one morning while I was backing out at a weird angle and totally ripped off :facepalm: ) and get it detailed. I *might* put the stock intake back on. Other than that and paying off the loan it's ready to go.
Had a little issue.... looks like the spark plugs from engine #3 were toast. I'd be spinning the hamster up to redline, and the car would hit about 5.5K, bog, and then go into limp mode. Wouldn't even accelerate, which made for some scary moments. Had to turn the car off while rolling a few times. Got codes pulled.... misfires on cylinders 2-4. Sure enough, pull the plugs and 2-4 are white. Did a test run with some new plugs, good as new. Zinged up to 7K in typical fashion.
Now I just have to get it detailed, replace the bumper + undercarriage tray, find an exhaust rattle and put it up. Gonna list it once I get back from Israel. Hoping some young punk will pay 7-8 for it
OK, looks like things are on the up and up. Spark plugs did the trick for the revving issue, and there was a weird grounding issue that stalled it which turned out to be a missed ground :facepalm: It was overheating too so I changed the thermostat and did a coolant flush. When it's working right it's still pretty fun.... soooooo much grip, it's really unbelievable how this thing clings. But after like 15 minutes it gets old. Just gotta clean it up and put it up now.
Bottom bolt on the driver side rear shock backed out... thought I blew another one :facepalm:
Impact gun is not enough.
Use a torque wrench and do it right :facepalm:
I have never owned a torque wrench. First time this has happened
(http://www.thdstatic.com/spin/26/100371826/100371826_S01.spin?thumb&profile=400)
You dont want to overtighten the bottom shock bolt; you can deform the mount and bind up the bottom of the shock. You want to tighten it to spec (with a torque wrench) and loctite it.
Thankfully it's just a 75mm M12 bolt so I will grab one at Lowes. Going to suck driving home with that rattle though... hope I don't end up actually blowing the right side.
It wasn't a shoulder bolt?
No it was a regular old flange bolt. I don't know if Lowes will have that size but I'll get a regular bolt and order the OEM one. Sucks! How does this happen.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 10, 2017, 11:38:32 AM
I have never owned a torque wrench. First time this has happened
For somebody who likes to make things needlessly complex, you should totally have a torque wrench. Think of all the torque specs you get to look up and utilize. :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 10, 2017, 01:58:13 PM
No it was a regular old flange bolt. I don't know if Lowes will have that size but I'll get a regular bolt and order the OEM one. Sucks! How does this happen.
It happens when you don't torque things down to the proper specs. You're basically the Spin's Tavarish.
Quote from: giant_mtb on May 10, 2017, 02:04:33 PM
For somebody who likes to make things needlessly complex, you should totally have a torque wrench. Think of all the torque specs you get to look up and utilize. :lol:
+1, they aren't very expensive. I barely do the basics when it comes to car maintenance but I have one (and use it).
Lug nuts need a torque wrench, so even a non-mechanic should have one.