Long Way Up featured 2 Rivian trucks as the camera vehicles, and did a great job of selling me on them. Now I've learned they will be selling an SUV in this gorgeous blue color. This might be my next car. :wub:
(https://i.imgur.com/x9XSwaT.jpg)
I am mentally preparing for an EV - probably for late 2022.
Selling the idea to Mrs Minor. She will cross examine me on the whys and wherefores and economics.
I will be getting a 240V outlet put in the garage, and I will need to place it carefully. Perhaps on the ceiling with a pulley-retractable system.
I'd want an EV built ground-up to be an EV on a dedicated platform.
I'll be paying attention to efficiency - watt hours/mile etc.
Apparently mid-size, a la Ford Edge, Discovery Sport, et al, ideal for most families.
Very attractive for what it is. Love the pastel shades.
With the financial backing, it could be one of the future major players.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 29, 2021, 11:12:20 PM
Long Way Up featured 2 Rivian trucks as the camera vehicles, and did a great job of selling me on them. Now I've learned they will be selling an SUV in this gorgeous blue color. This might be my next car. :wub:
I love that blue too, & am pleased we're beginning to edge away from boring black/white/grey/silver.
Beautiful truck in a beautiful color. The price for this (starting at $77,500) is high but not really high for what it is. Hope it succeeds.
I gotta figure out how to wrangle up 80k in the next 2 years. What's the next Gamestok bubble?
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 30, 2021, 12:35:08 PM
I gotta figure out how to wrangle up 80k in the next 2 years. What's the next Gamestok bubble?
Sbarro. Nowhere to go but up, right?
Quote from: Morris Minor on January 30, 2021, 01:36:38 AM
I am mentally preparing for an EV - probably for late 2022.
Selling the idea to Mrs Minor. She will cross examine me on the whys and wherefores and economics.
I will be getting a 240V outlet put in the garage, and I will need to place it carefully. Perhaps on the ceiling with a pulley-retractable system.
I'd want an EV built ground-up to be an EV on a dedicated platform.
I'll be paying attention to efficiency - watt hours/mile etc.
I think I'm going that way too. I've got the Outback and S2000. Girlfriend has a 2012 Focus. She's going to get a new car sometime this year probably. I threw out the idea of a Mustang Mach E, but it's more than she wants to spend, and we don't really want to put a charger in this house, so we'll like end up with a 2021 CX-5. We'll probably move this year too into something with a 3 car garage, and a good chance I update the S2000 to a ND Miata or '22 BRZ.
I imagine in 5 years or so, the house will be 2 crossovers and 1 sport car, with one of the crossovers being an EV. I think we'll always need to have a gas crossover for road trips, and I can't imagine electric sports cars being a viable thing for a few generations still.
Quote from: Laconian on January 30, 2021, 12:43:22 PM
Sbarro. Nowhere to go but up, right?
I came across this today in a bleak & nearly deserted food court, and remembered your post.
(https://i.postimg.cc/G3TH7RNx/IMG-2041.jpg)
Rivian van spotted in Seattle
Quote from: Morris Minor on January 31, 2021, 01:25:01 PM
I came across this today in a bleak & nearly deserted food court, and remembered your post.
(https://i.postimg.cc/G3TH7RNx/IMG-2041.jpg)
I feel like I need to go on antidepressants after having seen that picture. :cry: :lol:
Rivian tackling Hell's Revenge on stock tires.
https://youtu.be/Yeth5v_5dPM
Rivian has a decent chance of being a major league player in the EV market IMO. If not the market leader, then at least #2 or #3.
Market Cap
RIVN: $120bn
GM: $90bn
F: $78bn
Quote from: Morris Minor on November 11, 2021, 06:29:45 PM
Market Cap
RIVN: $120bn
GM: $90bn
F: $78bn
Proof the numbers are all made up. How many vehicles has R sold again compared to the other two? :confused:
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on November 12, 2021, 03:02:24 AM
Proof the numbers are all made up. How many vehicles has R sold again compared to the other two? :confused:
Rivian expects to produce about 1,200 vehicles this year. It has orders for around 56,000. GM & Ford produce millions.
Ultimately, after the speculative dust is shaken out, companies' market caps reflect future prospects. The markets are not betting on the ICE incumbents.
Quote from: Morris Minor on November 12, 2021, 05:08:45 AM
Rivian expects to produce about 1,200 vehicles this year. It has orders for around 56,000. GM & Ford produce millions.
Ultimately, after the speculative dust is shaken out, companies' market caps reflect future prospects. The markets are not betting on the ICE incumbents.
I know it doesn't meet everyone's needs, but Ford's new Maverick Hybrid is cheaper to buy and better gas mileage than a Civic hybrid. Just absolutely mind blowing (to me).
I could see the type of vehicle eventually being converted to EV...
Especially when Americans want larger vehicles but also CHEAP.
It's another meme stock
Quote from: Morris Minor on November 12, 2021, 05:08:45 AM
Rivian expects to produce about 1,200 vehicles this year. It has orders for around 56,000. GM & Ford produce millions.
Ultimately, after the speculative dust is shaken out, companies' market caps reflect future prospects. The markets are not betting on the ICE incumbents.
I can't see today's market and think that rings true anymore. The speculative dust doesn't shake out until the SEC starts to enforce the law on the books and the money printing stops.
Well, the money is chasing disruptors: the total addressable market for SUVs & pickups is huge, and now ripe for EV disruptors. So if Rivian can do what's needed, the valuations may not be too outlandish. They have the advantage of a clean sheet, a shitload of capital, a lack of big-corporation inertia, e.g. no need to fund the project from gasoline vehicle sales. The challenge is ramping production... the fuckups underlying that issue nearly broke Tesla's back in 2017/18.
But Tesla's run rate is now approaching a million a year - just from two factories - so Rivian won't be treading uncharted territory.
Ford isn't exactly slacking off. Sure the speculators love the next big door buster, but the incumbents have experience in a lot of the technology.
https://carbuzz.com/news/fords-latest-invention-could-be-a-major-breakthrough
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on November 12, 2021, 09:10:00 AM
Ford isn't exactly slacking off. Sure the speculators love the next big door buster, but the incumbents have experience in a lot of the technology.
https://carbuzz.com/news/fords-latest-invention-could-be-a-major-breakthrough
Ford also as a 12% stake in Rivian.
If (when?) charging is able to do that (charge as fast as it takes to fill up a tank with gas) then that is probably the final nail in the coffin of the ICE. At that point smaller/lighter (and cheaper) EV's with smaller batteries start to make a lot more sense.
The traditional automakers have pretty much all stumbled trying to make EVs at scale... makes the Tesla way of doing things look brilliant in comparison. There seems to be a pretty steep learning curve for EV production - can only guess if Rivian figures it out
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 12, 2021, 09:23:49 AM
If (when?) charging is able to do that (charge as fast as it takes to fill up a tank with gas) then that is probably the final nail in the coffin of the ICE. At that point smaller/lighter (and cheaper) EV's with smaller batteries start to make a lot more sense.
Are WtP buying Teslas (i.e., the Prius effect) or EVs (i.e., the iDevice effect). IMO all indications is it is the former, and government forcing one vs. the other is bound to go very poorly overall.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 12, 2021, 10:18:46 AM
Are WtP buying Teslas (i.e., the Prius effect) or EVs (i.e., the iDevice effect). IMO all indications is it is the former, and government forcing one vs. the other is bound to go very poorly overall.
Cool, so instead of EV subsidies, lets just start to pay at the pump for the security costs, healthcare costs, and environmental damage from the oil industry.
Anyone in for $15 a gallon gas instead of those nasty EV subsidies?
Quote from: FoMoJo on November 12, 2021, 09:14:08 AM
Ford also as a 12% stake in Rivian.
Good point. Of the big auto makers, I'd say Ford has the sunniest future. There's a bit of a struggle going on within the others.
Hyundai seems to be adapting pretty well. They have an impending avalanche of new EV product.
Quote from: r0tor on November 12, 2021, 10:42:56 AM
Cool, so instead of EV subsidies, lets just start to pay at the pump for the security costs, healthcare costs, and environmental damage from the oil industry.
Anyone in for $15 a gallon gas instead of those nasty EV subsidies?
Debit as you like, just as long as you credit as well - jetliners, trains, computers, skyscrapers, cancer treatment, aka, the modern world as you know it.
MKBHD opines.
https://youtu.be/A1uYhkMRLWg (https://youtu.be/A1uYhkMRLWg)
If Rivian were to go down into the mid-$70s I might take a nibble.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/RIVN
https://www.teslarati.com/rivian-r1t-towing-test-range-loss/
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on November 30, 2021, 12:55:00 PM
https://www.teslarati.com/rivian-r1t-towing-test-range-loss/ (https://www.teslarati.com/rivian-r1t-towing-test-range-loss/)
Snips from the article.
"which evidently resulted in a 62% degradation of the battery""one of the more stressful tasks for an EV to perform, as it requires excessive energy from the vehicle"Rivian needs to to cease production and recall all vehicles sold. The cause of the battery degradation & excessive energy use needs to be fixed.
Or it could be that the writer has a weak command of English.
My F250 suffers from fuel storage degradation when I use it to tow :hammerhead: Seriously though, towing heavy stuff affects the range of a vehicle. The impact on my F250 isn't 62% only because it sucks all the time. Big trucks with large inefficient engines start out with horrible gas mileage and go down from there. Smaller trucks are more efficient when unladen but they take a bigger hit when they tow a heavy load.
I like how they excuse Tesla for the same exact thing just because they have more Tesla-branded chargers, which doesn't change the dismal range of towing with a Tesla or any EV. Adding more air resistance will quickly reduce range.
Towing with an EV truck/SUV might not make sense for a while. And that's fine.
Depends if degradation means "degradation" or if it means "discharges."
Quote from: CaminoRacer on November 30, 2021, 03:09:18 PM
I like how they excuse Tesla for the same exact thing just because they have more Tesla-branded chargers, which doesn't change the dismal range of towing with a Tesla or any EV. Adding more air resistance will quickly reduce range.
Towing with an EV truck/SUV might not make sense for a while. And that's fine.
It's Teslarati, what would you expect?
Also towing at what looks to be 70+ mph, which will greatly accelerate "degradation."
Back it down to the advisable 55 mph and it'll be about what you'd get with a ICE truck (~50% drop, as Rivian noted).
Probably. Since drag increases at velocity cubed, that delta v stings.
yeah, totally not surprised, just cements what I figured- electric pickups won't be great for cross-country trailer camping trips.
Imagine having to stay at the camp site more days than you want because the 110v(low amps) takes forever to charge the ginormous batteries... :)
IF there's power available, if you have to go somewhere else to charge back up even further complicates things.
And that wind resistance is Defintely a thing! But no one drives 55mph, not even the people towing "max speed 55mph" Uhaul trailers.
When I towed Scrappy with the minivan from VA to SC, I put the transmission on "no overdrive" which puts it into 3rd (of five) gear. RPMs were high so I set the cruise at 60mph and was getting passed by EVERYONE. And the 8hr drive took more like 10hrs. Hopefully my transmission lasts many more years though!
Quote from: GoCougs on November 30, 2021, 05:44:09 PM
Also towing at what looks to be 70+ mph, which will greatly accelerate "degradation."
Back it down to the advisable 55 mph and it'll be about what you'd get with a ICE truck (~50% drop, as Rivian noted).
My gas tank suffers accelerated "degradation' when the car's loaded & in hilly terrain.
Edit - oh wow - I just read another Teslarati article. The standard of writing is at academically weak middle-schooler level.
Quote from: Morris Minor on December 01, 2021, 04:19:14 AM
My gas tank suffers accelerated "degradation' when the car's loaded & in hilly terrain.
Edit - oh wow - I just read another Teslarati article. The standard of writing is at academically weak middle-schooler level.
lol, have you read the comment section?
Quote from: NomisR on December 01, 2021, 09:18:32 AM
lol, have you read the comment section?
I suspect reading the comments would cause degradation to your mental state.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on December 01, 2021, 10:14:18 AM
I suspect reading the comments would cause degradation to your mental state.
:lol:
Quote from: SJ_GTI on December 01, 2021, 10:14:18 AM
I suspect reading the comments would cause degradation to your mental state.
It wasn't that bad, it's people actually calling out the author and people saying that it's typical for this author to write about things he doesn't know anything about.
When writing for public consumption, writing abilities count for far more than enthusiasm for the subject. Teslarati, Jalopnik & the rest need editors with English language degrees. But then you're into paid-content territory.
It's plausible that these guys will be major players. Most difficult challenge is scaling up to volume production - they won't want to repeat Tesla's 2017 Fremont nightmare.
Rivian to Build $5B Electric Truck Plant in Georgia
Sources briefed on the decision say electric truck maker Rivian Automotive will announce Thursday that it's building a $5 billion battery and assembly plant east of Atlanta projected to employ 7,500 workers.
More...
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/michigan/articles/2021-12-15/sources-rivian-to-build-5b-electric-truck-plant-in-georgia (https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/michigan/articles/2021-12-15/sources-rivian-to-build-5b-electric-truck-plant-in-georgia)
Tesla is the exception to scaling production in automotive, not the rule.
Is Rivian only selling in America or abroad too?
Thumbs-up from Car and Driver.
Tested: 2022 Rivian R1T Launch Edition
The first electric pickup of the modern era proves to be a practical workhorse and an impressive bit of electric-vehicle technology.
BY K.C. COLWELL
FEB 2, 2022
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a38904754/2022-rivian-r1t-launch-edition-by-the-numbers/ (https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a38904754/2022-rivian-r1t-launch-edition-by-the-numbers/)
Wow I'm glad I didn't order an R1S already. Definitely out of my price range now.
https://motorlinks.net/rivian-changes-specs-increases-prices-for-r1t-and-r1s-affects-all-pre-orders/
What's the deal with everyone going to pleather? What if I prefer a real dead cow under my ass? And I thought these people are all about renewables, cows are renewable, but pleather is made from oil..
Why does NomisR support the torture and murdering of innocent animals?
Quote from: NomisR on March 02, 2022, 09:38:53 AM
What's the deal with everyone going to pleather? What if I prefer a real dead cow under my ass? And I thought these people are all about renewables, cows are renewable, but pleather is made from oil..
Cow leather is meh. I prefer full grain black rhino leather.
Cloth is best for real renewable/sustainable/not murdering animals.
Quote from: NomisR on March 02, 2022, 09:38:53 AM
What's the deal with everyone going to pleather? What if I prefer a real dead cow under my ass? And I thought these people are all about renewables, cows are renewable, but pleather is made from oil..
There's too much crossover between vegans and EV owners, so they go pleather to try to placate them. But yeah, I agree. Leather is a co-product from the meat industry. Polyurethane materials is probably much dirtier than leather from an environmental standpoint.
Nothing beats the fart-permeability of cloth.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on March 02, 2022, 11:22:21 AM
Cloth is best for real renewable/sustainable/not murdering animals.
Sorry, cloth requires way to much water and industrial farming.
The real answer is that we should all have to stand while we drive.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on March 02, 2022, 12:36:44 PM
Sorry, cloth requires way to much water and industrial farming.
The real answer is that we should all have to stand while we drive.
What about rocks? We can't make seat from wood since it requires chopping down trees, so rocks!
Quote from: CaminoRacer on March 02, 2022, 11:22:21 AM
Cloth is best for real renewable/sustainable/not murdering animals.
Since cloth seats are not made from cotton but instead made from nylon or polyester, both of which are made from petroleum. Alcantara of course is also a petroleum based product since it's a synthetic material. And then there's pleather/leatherette/vinyl/vegan leather which is also petroleum based.
The only thing that's actually not petroleum based is leather.
Quote from: NomisR on March 02, 2022, 11:10:07 PM
Since cloth seats are not made from cotton but instead made from nylon or polyester, both of which are made from petroleum. Alcantara of course is also a petroleum based product since it's a synthetic material. And then there's pleather/leatherette/vinyl/vegan leather which is also petroleum based.
The only thing that's actually not petroleum based is leather.
Cows eat feed corn, which is almost always grown in petrochemical fertilizers.
Therefore; cows are petroleum byproducts.
There are a number of interiors which use fabrics produced from recycled plastics as their upholstery, like the Ioniq 5.
Quote from: Laconian on March 03, 2022, 04:57:02 AM
There are a number of interiors which use fabrics produced from recycled plastics as their upholstery, like the Ioniq 5.
I always wonder about the specifics of those claims. All plastic contains a certain amount of recycled material- its more a matter of degree than any one product being made "from recycled material" or not. And there's also the difference between pre- and post-consumer recycling.
Anyways- cows aren't exactly good for the environment either when it comes down to it.
I dumped my small holding in Rivian - cut my losses. Lesson learned.
They way they did this price increase was insulting to deposit holders. Bait & switch destroys goodwill, &, right now, goodwill is all they have. Someone wasn't thinking.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on March 03, 2022, 05:29:05 AM
I always wonder about the specifics of those claims. All plastic contains a certain amount of recycled material- its more a matter of degree than any one product being made "from recycled material" or not. And there's also the difference between pre- and post-consumer recycling.
Anyways- cows aren't exactly good for the environment either when it comes down to it.
You can make pretty convincing leather out of fungus, but it only lasts a few years.
All joking aside, using petroleum to make products that are intended to be long lasting is actually perfectly fine from an environmental point of view, and often a better choice for the environment than "renewable" sources. Single use plastic bags are only bad for the environment because they are single use. A reusable nylon grocery bag is only more environmentally friendly than the single use option if it is used many time (usually hundreds). Given the total life cycle, cotton bags could theoretically be better than single use plastic bags (if used enough times) but they are far worse than multi-use nylon bags for a given number of uses, and since nylon bags deteriorate so slowly (and are far easy to clean) you are far more likely to use the nylon bag more times anyway. I have been using the same nylon bags for well over a decade now. I got them when I was living in Montreal (were given to me free as promotional items IIRC) and they still feel as good as new.
When it comes to car seats I expect the math is similar. Nylon/Polyester/pleather seats should last longer and be more environmentally friendly than organic choices. Leather could maybe last the life of a car (~50 years) as long as it is maintained well. It is hard to see organic cloth lasting that long.
The "environmental" downside to petrochemicals is when you burn them. If you use petroleum materials to make long last products there is no pollution upon use, and generally speaking the pollution created during manufacturing petroleum products is generally less than non-petroleum equivalents.
Quote from: Laconian on March 03, 2022, 06:03:48 AM
You can make pretty convincing leather out of fungus, but it only lasts a few years.
You can- and I have some.
But it doesn't hold up; and worse, as it ages, it just sort of crumbles away.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on March 03, 2022, 06:26:51 AM
All joking aside, using petroleum to make products that are intended to be long lasting is actually perfectly fine from an environmental point of view, and often a better choice for the environment than "renewable" sources. Single use plastic bags are only bad for the environment because they are single use. A reusable nylon grocery bag is only more environmentally friendly than the single use option if it is used many time (usually hundreds). Given the total life cycle, cotton bags could theoretically be better than single use plastic bags (if used enough times) but they are far worse than multi-use nylon bags for a given number of uses, and since nylon bags deteriorate so slowly (and are far easy to clean) you are far more likely to use the nylon bag more times anyway. I have been using the same nylon bags for well over a decade now. I got them when I was living in Montreal (were given to me free as promotional items IIRC) and they still feel as good as new.
When it comes to car seats I expect the math is similar. Nylon/Polyester/pleather seats should last longer and be more environmentally friendly than organic choices. Leather could maybe last the life of a car (~50 years) as long as it is maintained well. It is hard to see organic cloth lasting that long.
The "environmental" downside to petrochemicals is when you burn them. If you use petroleum materials to make long last products there is no pollution upon use, and generally speaking the pollution created during manufacturing petroleum products is generally less than non-petroleum equivalents.
As far as car seats go, I's wager that most car seats last the life of the car regardless of how good or bad they are.
People just don't replace car seats very often. I did know one guy that would Rotate his passenger and driver seat every year- and I have to admit that makes a lot of sense, but its probably not an option for most newer cars.
I think the great majority of leather products get manufactured in China or other developing nations. A lot of the leather actually comes from U.S. cow hide, gets shipped overseas where it is made into whatever (let's say car seat covering), and then get's shipped to wherever final assembly takes place. The process of taking the cow hide and making it into the product is very bad for the environment in 3rd world countries. In India for example, they just dump the tannery water which is full of chromium straight into the river.
Most modern cars with leather seats actually have leather seating surfaces. The sides and back of the seat are vinyl. I prefer leather or good vinyl (leatherette or whatever they call it) because it's much easier to stain cloth. My current Veloster and prior Crosstrek had cloth. I don't really like it but it's not that big a deal. The cloth on the base Crosstrek I had was very cheap and started ripping on the driver's seat. So I bought a real cheap car seat cover and just put it on the driver's seat. When I sold it to the dealer, I don't think the person who inspected the car and drove it even realized the driver's seat had a car seat cover on it.
Mercedes has an option for upgraded leather seats (over their standard seats) as an expensive option. Those upgraded seats are sweet.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on March 03, 2022, 07:09:54 AM
You can- and I have some.
But it doesn't hold up; and worse, as it ages, it just sort of crumbles away.
How about a latex interior? Natural, renewable, perfectly in character for Spyker.
Quote from: veeman on March 03, 2022, 08:34:59 AM
I think the great majority of leather products get manufactured in China or other developing nations. A lot of the leather actually comes from U.S. cow hide, gets shipped overseas where it is made into whatever (let's say car seat covering), and then get's shipped to wherever final assembly takes place. The process of taking the cow hide and making it into the product is very bad for the environment in 3rd world countries. In India for example, they just dump the tannery water which is full of chromium straight into the river.
Most modern cars with leather seats actually have leather seating surfaces. The sides and back of the seat are vinyl. I prefer leather or good vinyl (leatherette or whatever they call it) because it's much easier to stain cloth. My current Veloster and prior Crosstrek had cloth. I don't really like it but it's not that big a deal. The cloth on the base Crosstrek I had was very cheap and started ripping on the driver's seat. So I bought a real cheap car seat cover and just put it on the driver's seat. When I sold it to the dealer, I don't think the person who inspected the car and drove it even realized the driver's seat had a car seat cover on it.
Mercedes has an option for upgraded leather seats (over their standard seats) as an expensive option. Those upgraded seats are sweet.
I mean, shipping work to countries with no real environmental protections isn't limited to tanning. Its a
real problem with basically everything that produces any sort of waste.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on March 03, 2022, 04:30:07 AM
Cows eat feed corn, which is almost always grown in petrochemical fertilizers.
Therefore; cows are petroleum byproducts.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on March 03, 2022, 05:29:05 AM
I always wonder about the specifics of those claims. All plastic contains a certain amount of recycled material- its more a matter of degree than any one product being made "from recycled material" or not. And there's also the difference between pre- and post-consumer recycling.
Anyways- cows aren't exactly good for the environment either when it comes down to it.
I didn't know you were a NWO globalist :lol:
But yeah, it's why they don't want us to eat meat...
However, aren't cows mostly grass fed when they can and finished on grain based diet to bulk up at the end? I guess it depends on the cow factory they're from.
Quote from: NomisR on March 03, 2022, 09:28:28 AM
I didn't know you were a NWO globalist :lol:
But yeah, it's why they don't want us to eat meat...
However, aren't cows mostly grass fed when they can and finished on grain based diet to bulk up at the end? I guess it depends on the cow factory they're from.
I believe that we can do things better. But I also believe that will come through advancing technology, and the availability of better processes, rather than authoritarianism.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on March 03, 2022, 09:39:27 AM
I believe that we can do things better. But I also believe that will come through advancing technology, and the availability of better processes, rather than authoritarianism.
This I can agree with.. but in some ways, we're limited by how quickly the government allows us to advance in some ways.
Quote from: Laconian on March 03, 2022, 09:15:45 AM
How about a latex interior? Natural, renewable, perfectly in character for Spyker.
There are not an insignificant number of people with latex allergies though. I think around 10% of health care workers have some latex sensitivity and a few have it really bad (anaphylaxis).
Quote from: veeman on March 04, 2022, 10:22:48 AM
There are not an insignificant number of people with latex allergies though. I think around 10% of health care workers have some latex sensitivity and a few have it really bad (anaphylaxis).
We use nitrile gloves in our factory, I think these are less likely to cause allergic reactions.
Rivian reverses course and will no longer hike the price of their cars for people who have put down money on reservations. Haha.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/rivian-rolls-back-price-hike-orders-before-march-1-2022-03-03/
Quote from: Laconian on March 03, 2022, 09:15:45 AM
How about a latex interior? Natural, renewable, perfectly in character for Spyker.
I think they start decomposing after 5 years.
I think they have a great product, competing in Range Rover & M-B GLS lifestyle territory. They obviously realized they were severely underpriced, and that early buyers will be flipping their Rivians for money that should be theirs. But the way they went about remedying it was a damaging mistake: ruining trust and goodwill. It will take a while to recover those.
Quote from: veeman on March 03, 2022, 08:34:59 AM
I think the great majority of leather products get manufactured in China or other developing nations. A lot of the leather actually comes from U.S. cow hide, gets shipped overseas where it is made into whatever (let's say car seat covering), and then get's shipped to wherever final assembly takes place. The process of taking the cow hide and making it into the product is very bad for the environment in 3rd world countries. In India for example, they just dump the tannery water which is full of chromium straight into the river.
Most modern cars with leather seats actually have leather seating surfaces. The sides and back of the seat are vinyl. I prefer leather or good vinyl (leatherette or whatever they call it) because it's much easier to stain cloth. My current Veloster and prior Crosstrek had cloth. I don't really like it but it's not that big a deal. The cloth on the base Crosstrek I had was very cheap and started ripping on the driver's seat. So I bought a real cheap car seat cover and just put it on the driver's seat. When I sold it to the dealer, I don't think the person who inspected the car and drove it even realized the driver's seat had a car seat cover on it.
Mercedes has an option for upgraded leather seats (over their standard seats) as an expensive option. Those upgraded seats are sweet.
Wait, what? Maybe a car cover from Amazon is made in China. I can't think of a single plant that sources OEM leather from China that's being manufactured in the North America. Pretty much all plants in the US mostly have their coming from Mexico. Sometimes it's done in the US. Leather in Germany is often cut and sewn in something like Romania. Cut and sew is typically really labor intensive, but there's a lot of issues with shipping leather long distance. It's sensitive to temp and humidity changes.
And I don't think there are any OEMs with leather and vinyl seats. It's typically just different grade leathers, depending on the area of the seat.
As long as there are people eating hamburgers, there'll be leather for car seats.
I still prefer cloth.
Quote from: MrH on March 05, 2022, 02:37:13 PM
Wait, what? Maybe a car cover from Amazon is made in China. I can't think of a single plant that sources OEM leather from China that's being manufactured in the North America. Pretty much all plants in the US mostly have their coming from Mexico. Sometimes it's done in the US. Leather in Germany is often cut and sewn in something like Romania. Cut and sew is typically really labor intensive, but there's a lot of issues with shipping leather long distance. It's sensitive to temp and humidity changes.
And I don't think there are any OEMs with leather and vinyl seats. It's typically just different grade leathers, depending on the area of the seat.
I'm pretty sure leather trimmed or leather seating surfaces means the face of the seat bottom and seat back are leather and the rest of the seat (sides and back) are some form of vinyl.
You're right that the leather on car seats in American and European cars isn't usually finished in China. For Europe a lot of it comes from Czechoslovakia and for the U.S. a lot of it comes from Mexico.
Leather seats are almost always a combo of leather surfaces and vinyl sides and back. My recliner is the same. It is really visible with the night vision on the security cameras. The different materials reflect differently.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acSdPy38XKU
Saw that it was faster than the new Hummer too. The Rivian has a higher speed limited (~110 vs ~106) but it was ahead of the Hummer right from the start. The Hummer is more powerful but also heavier.
I saw 2 Rivians on Thursday. One was charging at my office park. Very cool, although big. A Maverick-sized model would be my preference.
I hope they succeed. If they can scale & get profitable it would be wonderful.
They do have the advantage not being stuck in legacy automaker cultural quicksand. Disadvantage is their cash burn.
Sandy Munro was so impressed by the engineering he sold his Rubicon & bought one for himself.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=munro+%26+associates+rivian (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=munro+%26+associates+rivian)
Hopefully their 3rd model will be a smaller cheaper model.
Saw an R1T in an auto museum last week. It is beautiful, a work of art & no-expense-spared engineering.
I just don't see how they'll ever make money on this trajectory. They build Rolls-Royce & Ferrari-level componentry, engineering & quality... & sell it at bargain basement prices.
Quote from: Morris Minor on July 16, 2022, 02:04:24 PM
Saw an R1T in an auto museum last week. It is beautiful, a work of art & no-expense-spared engineering.
I just don't see how they'll ever make money on this trajectory. They build Rolls-Royce & Ferrari-level componentry, engineering & quality... & sell it at bargain basement prices.
It really is a pretty truck, but I do believe it will be a failure.
Rivian however, will likely be OK, as it will find its niche in medium duty commercial fleets (local service).
Have seen many many R1Ts in the wild - they looked small to me, and sure enough, checking specs, it is - barely mid size (a bit shorter than the Tacoma crew cab short bed). Overall looks okay but I don't like the front end.
Rivian is indeed DOA on retail product. Not so much a criticism of Rivian - that affects all EV endeavors anywhere. Rivian's death knell is that it is run by competent, normal people, who will be naturally adverse to lying, cheating and scamming, i.e., will be less likely to engage in behaviors that pushed Tesla to the foreWRT financial reporting, product advertising and government regulation.
I think it's more that they don't have their costs under control. And their products are built to ultra-luxury specs and sold only for upper-premium prices.
the jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJbZjJNq9NM
The Boy Who Cried This Is The Most Amazing Wolf
"This has decent legroom" - WTF, he's completely folded into a paperclip shape in those cramped back seats. What the hell!
Oh, boy is he painful to watch. The exaggerations get me before the frumpy dress and slacked jaw. Just Jesus, 4.5MM subs.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 28, 2022, 08:33:34 AM
Oh, boy is he painful to watch. The exaggerations get me before the frumpy dress and slacked jaw. Just Jesus, 4.5MM subs.
Remember those old timey jumping jack toys where you pull a string and they would wave their arms up and down?
Doug Demuro reminds me of those in every video.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 28, 2022, 08:33:34 AM
Oh, boy is he painful to watch. The exaggerations get me before the frumpy dress and slacked jaw. Just Jesus, 4.5MM subs.
That's his brand! :lol:
I refuse to click and add to the views.
But seriously, there's no excuse for such a big car to look so cramped inside.
One reviewer (on Fully Charged I think it was) characterized the SUV form factor: large yet still somehow cramped inside. (certainly applies to my CX-5.) SUVs are bad for aerodynamic drag too. Brief search turns up no Cd numbers for the R1S.
(Again - my gassers: CX-5 - drag coefficient 0.33. Roomier G37 - Cd 0.29)
Quote from: Morris Minor on September 29, 2022, 04:51:28 AM
One reviewer (on Fully Charged I think it was) characterized the SUV form factor: large yet still somehow cramped inside. (certainly applies to my CX-5.) SUVs are bad for aerodynamic drag too. Brief search turns up no Cd numbers for the R1S.
(Again - my gassers: CX-5 - drag coefficient 0.33. Roomier G37 - Cd 0.29)
Pretty much all of the small "SUVs" feel cramped inside. They're just sedans with taller bodies that make them seem bigger. Escape, Equinox, CX-5, Cherokee...they're all rather small inside. They just seem bigger because they have a higher floor without a giant transmission tunnel hump messing with the rear seat area.
CX-5 back seat is massive compared to the sedans I grew up in
Quote from: Morris Minor on September 29, 2022, 04:51:28 AM
One reviewer (on Fully Charged I think it was) characterized the SUV form factor: large yet still somehow cramped inside. (certainly applies to my CX-5.) SUVs are bad for aerodynamic drag too. Brief search turns up no Cd numbers for the R1S.
(Again - my gassers: CX-5 - drag coefficient 0.33. Roomier G37 - Cd 0.29)
Drag coefficient is independent of frontal area. It's basically a measurement of how close to a tear drop shape the vehicle is.
So what's to drag coefficient of a tear drop shape
Quote from: r0tor on October 01, 2022, 01:08:43 PM
So what's to drag coefficient of a tear drop shape
Depends
:wtf:
Hyundai Ioniq 5 - Cd: 0.29 (SUV-thingy shape)
Hyundai Ioniq 6 - Cd: 0.21 (Blobby-teardrop-thingy shape)
The 6 has basically the same motors/underpinnings as the Ioniq 5: IIRC Hyundai is claiming an extra 100 miles or so on highway runs.
(https://i.postimg.cc/D0wFGvR7/cd21or29.jpg)
I think the number you're really searching for is CdA. I'm not sure how to calculate frontal area though. Is it only height x width, or more detailed to capture the silhouette of the frontal area.
Quote from: Morris Minor on October 02, 2022, 06:12:58 AM
Hyundai Ioniq 5 - Cd: 0.29 (SUV-thingy shape)
Hyundai Ioniq 6 - Cd: 0.21 (Blobby-teardrop-thingy shape)
The 6 has basically the same motors/underpinnings as the Ioniq 5: IIRC Hyundai is claiming an extra 100 miles or so on highway runs.
(https://i.postimg.cc/D0wFGvR7/cd21or29.jpg)
:lol:
I'm also conflicted. I can never decide if the ioniq 6 is hideous or not. But there is something appealing about the efficiency of it.
Quote from: Rich on October 02, 2022, 06:47:45 AM
I think the number you're really searching for is CdA. I'm not sure how to calculate frontal area though. Is it only height x width, or more detailed to capture the silhouette of the frontal area.
The whole silhouette. Cd is a bit misleading without the frontal area context. You can have cars with a great Cd but lots of drag, simply because it's huge.
Rivian is having a rough time:
SAN FRANCISCO, Feb 1 (Reuters) - Rivian Automotive (RIVN.O) is laying off 6% of its workforce in an effort to cut costs as the EV maker, already grappling with falling cash reserves and a weak economy, braces for an industry-wide price war.
The company is focusing resources on ramping up vehicle production and reaching profitability, Chief Executive R.J. Scaringe said in an email to employees on Wednesday announcing the job cuts. Reuters obtained a copy of the email.
More...
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ev-maker-rivian-cut-6-jobs-amid-price-war-internal-memo-2023-02-01/
I usually see a Rivian Amazon delivery truck at least once a day. Today I drove past their local warehouse and there were HUNDREDS of them parked in a big lot, all charging. Pretty impressive. So much electricity, I'd be interested to see all the electrical installation for that. How many warehouses worth of power did they have to install? :lol:
I worked, briefly, for Rivian.
Between the time I was hired and the time I actually started, their CEO was fired and the proposed plant I was supposed to work in was cancelled.
I'm seeing the pickup trucks around town more often now- but also at the side of the road disabled, which isn't a good look.
https://jalopnik.com/rivian-loses-33k-on-every-truck-it-sells-report-1850899055
It's okay to lose money as you scale up to full production. You learn as you go, get better and speedier at churning out the product, and your costs per unit sold drop, moving you into profitability. That's the general idea anyway. Haha.
It really helps if the product has been designed with ease of manufacture & assembly built-in from the outset - lessens the pain & costs along the way. I think it's in this area that the startups often stumble.
From another general automotive forum I'm on:
"Just got home with mine. This thing rips. Drove it from KC home, about 180ish miles, and averaged 2mi/kW going 77mph in conserve mode.
Wife loves it, daughters love it, more legroom (all that matters with two car seats) in the second row than our 2019 Yukon it replaced. More storage behind the third row than the Yukon, and a front trunk the Yukon doesn't even have."
(https://imgur.com/uhS48Hf.jpg)
So is 2 miles/KW good? Last I checked, most EV cars are over 50% better than that. 50% more consumption means 50% more charging and 50% more headaches with charging.
I saw an Rivian truck towing a small airstream trailer a few months ago. The thing was bouncing uncontrollably on the highway. Definitely was not designed for basic truck duty.
Quote from: r0tor on October 05, 2023, 08:47:18 AMSo is 2 miles/KW good? Last I checked, most EV cars are over 50% better than that. 50% more consumption means 50% more charging and 50% more headaches with charging.
Did you note he was talking about 77 mph? Efficiency drops rapidly with speed. I can get 4.5 miles/kWh in my Bolt at 60, 3.8 at 70 and only 2.5 at 80. The fact that he said it "rips" means he wasn't driving efficiently at all and was kind of hooning it around and having fun. Even fuel efficient gas cars get worse mileage when you drive fast and accelerate hard everywhere. Whoda thunk it?
Quote from: ChrisV on October 05, 2023, 10:16:35 AMDid you note he was talking about 77 mph? Efficiency drops rapidly with speed. I can get 4.5 miles/kWh in my Bolt at 60, 3.8 at 70 and only 2.5 at 80. The fact that he said it "rips" means he wasn't driving efficiently at all and was kind of hooning it around and having fun. Even fuel efficient gas cars get worse mileage when you drive fast and accelerate hard everywhere. Whoda thunk it?
I cruise at 75-80 going to work. Is 77mph supposedly excessive by some definition?
C&D got 230 miles at 75mph out of 135kwh battery. That's 1.7 miles per KWh. For your Bolt C&D got 190 miles at 75mph. Thats 3.2 miles per KWh.
Imagine your Bolt ownership if it literally took 2x longet to charge - how would that change things for you? When 6hrs on a home charger becomes 12 or 1hr at a supercharger becomes 2 to go the same distance.
Imagine your bolt taking
A couple of weeks ago I was driving up US-101 in California and saw this Porsche in the mid-distance. As a 'SPINner you know how you subconsciously register a car that might be a bit interesting. It was a few cars ahead and never budged out of the center lane, just tooling along right at the marked speed limit, which is highly unusual for a Porsche.
As we got closer to the city I got a bit closer and thought, "Christ, those are skinny tires for a Porsche, and what's with all the aero add-ons underneath?" Then the penny dropped; it was an Ioniq 6. And I'm guessing he was sticking to 65mph and maintaining his miles/kWh somewhere in the excellent range.
They're very handsome vehicles IMO.
But what I know now, I wouldn't touch one nor recommend them- they may not be around in 5 yrs.....
I drove a cousin's Rivian R1S in a suburb of Chicago for 15 minutes last weekend. Local mostly empty roads. I don't know what configuration he got it in. Gorgeous "Rivian Blue" color.
Even though he makes too much money to qualify for the federal tax rebate, he got the rebate because when he put the deposit on it, there were no income limits. I'm not sure how that works because he took delivery of it last month but whatever.
He wanted to impress me with its fast acceleration but I told him I wasn't impressed with that much to his humorous chagrin. I told him I was used to fast acceleration with my Kia EV6 and most EV are super fast. I also told him I wasn't impressed with the stereo as I'm not an audiophile. When I'm test driving a car I don't want to listen to music. I want to hear what the NVH of the car is like.
Interior is nothing special. It's nice and all but not anything better than any other 70 plus grand SUV. Ride is fantastic. Little NVH which is great. Really great looking large SUV on the outside.
Apparently this SUV is really good off road too.
If I was in the market for an electric 3 row SUV, I'd consider it but I'd probably instead get a Kia EV9 because it's about 15 to 20 grand cheaper and I wouldn't be off-roading it.
IIRC what he is saying is true about the rebate. I don't think it was necessary to put a down payment down, you just had to have prove that you ordered it prior to the new rules taking place. Putting a down payment on something of course is a very good way to show that something has indeed been ordered though.