Might have to dump my 2013 Infiniti QX56. It's been my favorite car. 140 thousand miles. I'm out of warranty now and I told myself that if any big repair comes up after the warranty was up, I would fix it and then sell it. I had bought it certified and had gotten an extended manufacturer warranty that would cover it for something like 120 thousand miles. It came in handy. Once my warranty was up, I started taking it to a local independent shop for routine stuff (brakes, oil changes, change out some worn hoses, etc). Car still driving great but last few weeks the car's ass seems low to the ground. I especially noticed it when hitching some bikes.
This car has a complex rear air suspension. Made an appointment at the dealership in a few days for a diagnostic ($170). I have a feeling the repair will be over a thousand dollars. If it's under one thousand five hundred, I'll fix it and then sell it. If it's over that much, I'll probably have the independent shop I go to ditch it and replace it with a standard suspension (by googling, this can be done it seems).
(https://i.imgur.com/wf6GUPU.jpg)
Is it rear only or at all four corners?
Also, is one side lower than the other or is it roughly as low on both sides?
Most of the LX470s eventually have the adjustable front suspension replaced with standard Land Cruiser springs. It used to be a thing with Town Cars too; the rear air suspension eventually got the spring from a Crown Vic.
The solution here sounds like the same- replace the Infiniti parts with Nissan Armada parts.
Air suspensions on light vehicles just seem to be trouble prone for no good reason.
Looks like it's at the rear only.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 28, 2021, 11:27:24 AM
Most of the LX470s eventually have the adjustable front suspension replaced with standard Land Cruiser springs. It used to be a thing with Town Cars too; the rear air suspension eventually got the spring from a Crown Vic.
Air suspensions on light vehicles just seem to be trouble prone for no good reason.
They're super comfy.
I've driven two Mercedes ML's back to back - one with Airmatic and one without. The dlfference is night and day, really - much more supple without any roll or float.
There are a couple of coil replacement kits going for $500 and up online. Looks like new bag + compressor + lines kit (might as well replace the whole thing) starts at $1000
Quote from: Submariner on August 28, 2021, 11:23:14 AM
Is it rear only or at all four corners?
Also, is one side lower than the other or is it roughly as low on both sides?
Yeah it's just the rear. Equal sagging on both sides. The ride of this car has been great even with the 22 in wheels. To me a big repair after a warranty is up on a luxury make is a sign that I should get rid of it sooner rather than later. Especially because it's our long distance travel car. KBB says dealer trade in should yield between 11 and 14 thousand. I'd strongly consider getting a certified same model (now called QX80) newer low mileage car.
Quote from: Submariner on August 28, 2021, 11:29:38 AM
They're super comfy.
I've driven two Mercedes ML's back to back - one with Airmatic and one without. The dlfference is night and day, really - much more supple without any roll or float.
Oh, I know why they use them; I just don't understand why they're so much trouble.
Big trucks use them all the time, and they aren't a major cause of headaches.
Low quality components is the only explanation I can think of. Airbags last forever on big trucks, no?
I can confirm that air ride is a revolution in ride quality. However, yes, they all seem to fail at some point, and it is usually colossally expensive, if you're lucky parts are even available. Perhaps you get (very) lucky and it's cheap fix...
Quote from: Submariner on August 28, 2021, 10:59:08 PM
Low quality components is the only explanation I can think of. Airbags last forever on big trucks, no?
Not forever; but longer than the service life of most passenger vehicles.
The suspension systems that use a closed loop seem to last a bit longer.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 29, 2021, 12:21:43 AM
Not forever; but longer than the service life of most passenger vehicles.
The air system on a commercial rig is for more than just the suspension, and I suspect many times more robust (in terms of MTBF). They also have a dirt simple ride height control system (a T valve on the frame actuated by a rod on the axle that either inflates or deflates the bags based on how compressed the suspension is).
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 28, 2021, 11:27:24 AM
Most of the LX470s eventually have the adjustable front suspension replaced with standard Land Cruiser springs. It used to be a thing with Town Cars too; the rear air suspension eventually got the spring from a Crown Vic.
The solution here sounds like the same- replace the Infiniti parts with Nissan Armada parts.
Air suspensions on light vehicles just seem to be trouble prone for no good reason.
Do the air bags on vehicles such as this also have compressors to replenish/regulate air pressure?
Quote from: FoMoJo on August 29, 2021, 09:16:20 AM
Do the air bags on vehicles such as this also have compressors to replenish/regulate air pressure?
Yes.
Quote from: MX793 on August 29, 2021, 08:58:04 AM
The air system on a commercial rig is for more than just the suspension, and I suspect many times more robust (in terms of MTBF). They also have a dirt simple ride height control system (a T valve on the frame actuated by a rod on the axle that either inflates or deflates the bags based on how compressed the suspension is).
Yes, the compressor is a big deal: but IME, its not the compressor or even the ride height system that usually fails, but the air bags themselves.
Quote from: FoMoJo on August 29, 2021, 09:16:20 AM
Do the air bags on vehicles such as this also have compressors to replenish/regulate air pressure?
There are 2 types of air suspension systems in cars... One is an open loop system where air is vented to atmosphere and new air is drawn in from the compressor. The other is a closed loop system which is sealed from the outside so there is never any makeup air.
Benefit of the closed loop is the system is always clean and dry. Downside is no way of making up the air lost from a leak by itself
On a dealer trade in inspection, I doubt they would notice if I had a standard suspension installed. That would likely save me a lot of money. Once this car is repaired, I'll most likely trade it in. My appointment with the Infiniti dealership is this Wednesday. $170 diagnostic fee seems high but they've treated me well (this dealership) for years.
I would investigate the removal of the air suspension. MY2013 is new enough that there may be all sorts of side effects (such as warning and error lights on the dash (my Audi has them)) that would negatively affect resale.
IME having lots of crappy cars in the past, it's never worth it to "invest" in a vehicle. If it's got major problems, live with it, unload it immediately or fix it and use/enjoy it for what it is, with zero expectation of any sort of return.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 29, 2021, 10:21:43 AM
I would investigate the removal of the air suspension. MY2013 is new enough that there may be all sorts of side effects (such as warning and error lights on the dash (my Audi has them)) that would negatively affect resale.
IME having lots of crappy cars in the past, it's never worth it to "invest" in a vehicle. If it's got major problems, live with it, unload it immediately or fix it and use/enjoy it for what it is, with zero expectation of any sort of return.
Did not think of this (warning/error lights). I'll have to query this on an Infiniti forum. Yeah, I never expect any good return on my cars. Just the most return I can get :lol: I will most likely trade the car in once this is fixed. It depends on what the Dealer quotes me to fix the air suspension whether I go that route or remove it and have an independent shop put in a standard suspension.
Quote from: veeman on August 29, 2021, 09:50:12 AM
On a dealer trade in inspection, I doubt they would notice if I had a standard suspension installed. That would likely save me a lot of money. Once this car is repaired, I'll most likely trade it in. My appointment with the Infiniti dealership is this Wednesday. $170 diagnostic fee seems high but they've treated me well (this dealership) for years.
Let me explain what actually took place and the reason you were charged $170. ($150 at my place). A technician connected a scan tool, very likely an expensive make specific one, to the DLC and pulled all the active suspension and related codes. He then had to lift the vehicle, inspect and pintest the wiring to determine if it's an electronic problem or a mechanical one. Then, the high tech part. Activate the pump using the scan tool and inspect/spray soapy water on or hear the damn leak. There's about 200 yards of shitty nylon tubing. Then, if it's not the bags, try to determine the relative condition of the rest of the system (warranty 12/12000 on repairs).
Then, send a parts Req(uistion) see if the parts are in stock, or ETA on them, prepare an estimate, then give it to the smiling idiot (sevice advisor, sorry JWC) that wrote up your car.
The tech only gets about $38 or so, the company takes the rest.
Quote from: shp4man on August 29, 2021, 01:06:07 PM
Let me explain what actually took place and the reason you were charged $170. ($150 at my place). A technician connected a scan tool, very likely an expensive make specific one, to the DLC and pulled all the active suspension and related codes. He then had to lift the vehicle, inspect and pintest the wiring to determine if it's an electronic problem or a mechanical one. Then, the high tech part. Activate the pump using the scan tool and inspect/spray soapy water on or hear the damn leak. There's about 200 yards of shitty nylon tubing. Then, if it's not the bags, try to determine the relative condition of the rest of the system (warranty 12/12000 on repairs).
Then, send a parts Req(uistion) see if the parts are in stock, or ETA on them, prepare an estimate, then give it to the smiling idiot (sevice advisor, sorry JWC) that wrote up your car.
The tech only gets about $38 or so, the company takes the rest.
I am now enlightened. Thanks! The fee goes towards the repair if I decide to get it done. It's a drop off with a free loaner (which is always the case for anything more involved than an oil change or brakes at this dealership).
Quote from: shp4man on August 29, 2021, 01:06:07 PM
The tech only gets about $38 or so, the company takes the rest.
The tech gets $38 per hour in their paycheck. Another $2.xx per hour is paid on behalf of the tech to Social Security. If health benefits are offered, that's another $2.xx per hour, assuming the shop covers $500/month in premiums. Federal Unemployment insurance is another $.20 an hour for the tech. State UI will vary. Then there's making sure that there is money for back office support staff whose work is necessary but doesn't directly generate revenue. People like housekeeping staff or the folks who do payroll/billing. Also need money for supplies like paper, ink, pens, computers, printers. And facilities equipment (and upkeep of) like lifts, wheel and tire machines, air compressors, and HVAC. And then there are property costs (insurance, lease payments, taxes...) and utilities (water, electric, gas, trash).
Quote from: MX793 on August 30, 2021, 05:25:50 AM
The tech gets $38 per hour in their paycheck. Another $2.xx per hour is paid on behalf of the tech to Social Security. If health benefits are offered, that's another $2.xx per hour, assuming the shop covers $500/month in premiums. Federal Unemployment insurance is another $.20 an hour for the tech. State UI will vary. Then there's making sure that there is money for back office support staff whose work is necessary but doesn't directly generate revenue. People like housekeeping staff or the folks who do payroll/billing. Also need money for supplies like paper, ink, pens, computers, printers. And facilities equipment (and upkeep of) like lifts, wheel and tire machines, air compressors, and HVAC. And then there are property costs (insurance, lease payments, taxes...) and utilities (water, electric, gas, trash).
And profit for the owners who put the whole thing together. Not sure I'd want to own an Infiniti franchise.
FWIW, my dad's best friend owns an independent shop. He has done well. He has purchased quite a bit of commercial land/buildings around his shop that he leases out to other small businesses.
One of his sons is a mechanic (had been working at a MB dealership) and he wanted to hand the shop down to him. So he had his son come start working for him so he could not only start running the shop itself but also start to get him familiar with how to handle all the paperwork (payroll, accounts payable, taxes, etc...). After a about a year his son decided it was too much work (without enough rewards) to run a shop and went back to work at the dealership. I think employees often underestimate how much work/stress it is to run a business (small or large) and assume the owners/managers are just sitting around doing nothing and the whole place could operate just fine if they let the front line workers do their own thing.
So as a follow-up so far, I dropped off the car yesterday early morning. I love this particular dealership experience. I'm in the covered spacious waiting bay and the guy comes to the window of my car. He looks around the car documenting any dents and checks the odometer. He verifies what I want done (check rear suspension, oil change). I decline either tire rotation or wheel alignment and window wiper change (lol, I didn't ask for that). He makes me sign some documents on his IPAD with my finger tip while I'm still sitting in my car in the waiting bay. I give him my license, credit card, and auto insurance card for him to take pictures of. Then I get from the seat of my car to the waiting loaner car (a QX50) which is in the lane next to me with the key in the ignition and the car running. So from the time I get into the waiting bay to the time I'm driving off in the loaner, my total wait time was less than 10 minutes. This QX50 is nice. Looks great, very comfortable with luxury interior, and is quick. Stupid forgettable Infiniti model naming nomenclature aside, I wouldn't mind daily driving this car.
I'm surprised they haven't texted or called me yet with the diagnostic. I'm hoping I'll get to keep the loaner over the long weekend...
Quote from: shp4man on August 29, 2021, 01:06:07 PM
e, then give it to the smiling idiot (sevice advisor, sorry JWC) that wrote up your car.
Bite me.
I tried letting techs talk directly to customers, then have to explain to the customer that the work they agreed to do with the tech wasn't for free. "But he didn't say anything about charging me, I thought he was doing me a favor".
Yeah, he was doing you a $600 favor. :huh: Of course then you have a pissed off tech arguing that the guy told him to do it, he didn't ask how much.
My neighbor owned a Town Car with air suspension and needed air bags---$800. I told him to do away with those and buy the conversion kit. He had that installed with parts for $300.
Quote from: JWC on September 02, 2021, 03:04:04 PM
Bite me.
I tried letting techs talk directly to customers, then have to explain to the customer that the work they agreed to do with the tech wasn't for free. "But he didn't say anything about charging me, I thought he was doing me a favor".
Yeah, he was doing you a $600 favor. :huh: Of course then you have a pissed off tech arguing that the guy told him to do it, he didn't ask how much.
My neighbor owned a Town Car with air suspension and needed air bags---$800. I told him to do away with those and buy the conversion kit. He had that installed with parts for $300.
:lol:
Quote from: shp4man on September 02, 2021, 04:14:29 PM
:lol:
Seriously, you should be grateful there's somebody who works the desk and is willing to deal with customers so you don't have to. Especially when the customer is the general public.
So the culprit was the compressor partially rusted off the bracket. $1250 to fix it (parts and labor). I got it done. Car back to normal.
Looking to trade it in for another same model newer car pronto. Scouring the autotrader ads. Wife wants a 3 row Audi or Mercedes but I'm steering her away from those. They're not as large (Audi Q7/ Merc GLS), more expensive to buy, more expensive to maintain, and I don't think as reliable (Sorry Wimmer :lol:). The QX80 is more thirsty but using fueleconomy.gov, the extra cost over the other options isn't that much compared with overall cost of ownership. The largeness of the car doesn't bother us. We're in rural suburbia and I've driven the car many times in NYC as well. It's manageable.
(https://i.imgur.com/7kK2Ws0.jpg)
Sounds about the least painful that you could expect, and really, not related to the system itself. Impressive, really. I too would've just paid to get it fixed.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 05, 2021, 03:40:17 PM
Sounds about the least painful that you could expect, and really, not related to the system itself. Impressive, really. I too would've just paid to get it fixed.
Yeah thanks I got lucky i think. Winter salt road driven car's lifespan seems to be mostly dictated by rust.
I think undercoatings are a good investment if you plan on keeping your rust belt car for a while. NH Oil, Woolwax, Fluid Film aren't that expensive and do a pretty good job of keeping the rust at bay.
Alternatively, get an chassis attachment for a pressure washer and clean the underside with a mix of dish soap and "Salt Away" which neutralizes and removes road salt.
Welp, the ass on the Infiniti QX80 is low again.
Periodically searching for certified replacement same model newer year cars on Autotrader. Haven't bitten because pricing isn't so attractive. May need to drive my current saggy butt car through the winter. Everything else works fine. Is it inherently dangerous to drive the car because it's air suspension is non-functional? I don't offroad.
Other than having your headlights pointing up and some extra wear on the ball joints, nothing too bad will happen.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 16, 2021, 07:59:07 AM
Other than having your headlights pointing up and some extra wear on the ball joints, nothing too bad will happen.
Thanks!! This is what I needed to hear. My wife doesn't even notice it. Headlights pointing fine. My wife also put a hole in the front passenger bumper by hitting a big rock as she was pulling out of someone's driveway. $1500 to fix was the estimate so I put some silver colored duct tape on it (Alabama Chrome baby) and it looks fine.
Didn't you just replace the suspension? Was it just the pump or did you get the lines and bags replaced too?
Quote from: Submariner on November 16, 2021, 08:19:51 AM
Didn't you just replace the suspension? Was it just the pump or did you get the lines and bags replaced too?
I did. 2 and a half months ago. The compressor had partially rusted off the bracket. $1250 fix. I had a gut feeling this wasn't going to be a long term fix because there's a lot of rust underneath there. I don't know what's wrong now. I don't feel like going back to the dealership though and having them take a look at it again. The diagnostic isn't cheap and whatever it is, I don't want to throw more money at it. Especially with the new cosmetic damage to the front of the car, it's worth much less now as a trade in.
I can get what I want (2018 or newer same model car, certain colors, uplevel options, < 30 thousand miles on the odometer) within 100 miles of me for about $60 thousand dollars. New is around $80 thousand. A year or so ago I could get it for low to mid $50 thousand dollars. My wife and I test drove a bunch of competitors. Navigator is freaking awesome but significantly more. Escalades are stupidly priced. Mercedes GLS is expensive, doesn't do anything for me looks wise (plain jane), doesn't even come standard with a tow hitch (wtf), extended maunfacturer warranty options suck. Audi Q7 is significantly smaller and extended manufacturer warranty options similarly suck. If it was up to me entirely, I'd get a new Hyundai Palisade which comes standard with a great manufacturer warranty and feels and looks like a premium car but my wife want's luxury car branding. Genesis is too small (3rd row) but I may have my wife test drive it anyways. Everything else about it is awesome.
The Infiniti QX80 is ancient, has literally almost two decade old tech, and is a premium fuel hog. But all SUVs in this class are fuel hogs so a few miles a gallon doesn't make any difference. And my wife and I don't require new tech. The interior is a very nice place to be, it's quiet, it's easy to park, and it's heft is gratifying to pilot especially on long distance interstate highway travel.
Carolina squat
The saggy butt has now corrected itself, for now. Weird, it's an intermittent thing.
Anyways I've been scouring the Autotrader ads for a replacement. It's happened now twice where I see something I like, make an appointment at the dealership for the next day to take a look at it, and then find out the next morning prior to the appointment that the car was just sold. Crazy man.
Sounds like it's a ride height position sensor then if it's intermittent
Quote from: veeman on December 06, 2021, 09:44:52 AM
The saggy butt has now corrected itself, for now. Weird, it's an intermittent thing.
Anyways I've been scouring the Autotrader ads for a replacement. It's happened now twice where I see something I like, make an appointment at the dealership for the next day to take a look at it, and then find out the next morning prior to the appointment that the car was just sold. Crazy man.
The used car market is like the housing market. Gotta buy sight unseen and hope it's as advertised.
Could be a lot of things- bad ground on something somewhere is a good bet. Finding it is another story.
Quote from: r0tor on December 06, 2021, 11:54:30 AM
Sounds like it's a ride height position sensor then if it's intermittent
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 07, 2021, 06:46:49 AM
Could be a lot of things- bad ground on something somewhere is a good bet. Finding it is another story.
Yeah, thanks for the comments. Over the Thanksgiving Holiday I drove it with the family 8 hrs back and forth interstate to my parents' house and it didn't sag. Car still drives really good and the interior switch gear still looks and feels like new. My prior Buick Enclave, by the time I got rid of it at 110 thousand miles, a lot of the markings on the knobs on the dashboard were rubbing off. This car at 147 thousand miles still looks almost new inside the cabin. Just well put together.
Quote from: MX793 on December 07, 2021, 06:36:00 AM
The used car market is like the housing market. Gotta buy sight unseen and hope it's as advertised.
Carvana has good prices but their warranty is different than that of a "certified" car from a brick and mortar dealership where I can also buy a manufacturer sponsored extended warranty. Carvana has their own extended warranties but I'm very weary of non-manufacturer sponsored warranties. Because I don't need another car right now (current Infiniti still drives OK), I'm limiting my Autotrader search to within 50 miles of where I live.
Carmax seems to have a lot less pickings compared with Carvana. Maybe that's just for the particular car I want though.
I don't think I'll buy unseen but I can't be waiting for the next day anymore. If something tasty comes along, just drive there and put down a deposit if it's late in the day.
With Carmax you can reserve the car online and then have a couple of days to go check it out. But if they don't have inventory you're interested in, that doesn't help much. :lol:
Quote from: CaminoRacer on December 07, 2021, 09:56:45 AM
With Carmax you can reserve the car online and then have a couple of days to go check it out. But if they don't have inventory you're interested in, that doesn't help much. :lol:
Yeah thanks. I'm mostly concerned with the lack of a manufacturer sponsored extended warranty which you can get when buying a "certified car" from a brick and mortar dealership. I spent a lot of money (4 grand I think) on one when I had bought my current Infiniti. It was a 2013 model and was a few years old with 20 something thousand miles on the odometer. The extended warranty covered a lot of stuff for a lot more years and mileage. I used it a few times and it was nice to know I wouldn't be raped on repairs (outside of autobody) during the next several years. Just oil changes and wear and tear stuff (like brakes, spark plugs, and fluid changes.). That's one of the main things keeping me from getting a Mercedes GLS. Their manufacturer certified extended warranty options suck hard.
Anyways when stuff broke, I never experienced any nonsense from the dealership. If it was covered, there was no pushback whatsoever. It was always them telling me, "this is covered by your extended certified car warranty" without me asking if it was. I don't want to deal with a third party (like Carvana or Carmax sponsored) warranty. I want a manufacturer sponsored extended warranty. I don't want to make any phone calls, deal with any bullshit, etc. I don't want to submit documentation etc.
Quote from: veeman on December 07, 2021, 10:09:10 AM
Yeah thanks. I'm mostly concerned with the lack of a manufacturer sponsored extended warranty which you can get when buying a "certified car" from a brick and mortar dealership. I spent a lot of money (4 grand I think) on one when I had bought my current Infiniti. It was a 2013 model and was a few years old with 20 something thousand miles on the odometer. The extended warranty covered a lot of stuff for a lot more years and mileage. I used it a few times and it was nice to know I wouldn't be raped on repairs (outside of autobody) during the next several years. Just oil changes and wear and tear stuff (like brakes, spark plugs, and fluid changes.). That's one of the main things keeping me from getting a Mercedes GLS. Their manufacturer certified extended warranty options suck hard.
Anyways when stuff broke, I never experienced any nonsense from the dealership. If it was covered, there was no pushback whatsoever. It was always them telling me, "this is covered by your extended certified car warranty" without me asking if it was. I don't want to deal with a third party (like Carvana or Carmax sponsored) warranty. I want a manufacturer sponsored extended warranty. I don't want to make any phone calls, deal with any bullshit, etc. I don't want to submit documentation etc.
How much stuff broke and how much would it have cost without the extended warranty?
Quote from: veeman on December 07, 2021, 10:09:10 AM
Yeah thanks. I'm mostly concerned with the lack of a manufacturer sponsored extended warranty which you can get when buying a "certified car" from a brick and mortar dealership. I spent a lot of money (4 grand I think) on one when I had bought my current Infiniti. It was a 2013 model and was a few years old with 20 something thousand miles on the odometer. The extended warranty covered a lot of stuff for a lot more years and mileage. I used it a few times and it was nice to know I wouldn't be raped on repairs (outside of autobody) during the next several years. Just oil changes and wear and tear stuff (like brakes, spark plugs, and fluid changes.). That's one of the main things keeping me from getting a Mercedes GLS. Their manufacturer certified extended warranty options suck hard.
Anyways when stuff broke, I never experienced any nonsense from the dealership. If it was covered, there was no pushback whatsoever. It was always them telling me, "this is covered by your extended certified car warranty" without me asking if it was. I don't want to deal with a third party (like Carvana or Carmax sponsored) warranty. I want a manufacturer sponsored extended warranty. I don't want to make any phone calls, deal with any bullshit, etc. I don't want to submit documentation etc.
Clearly, you've never been a GM customer...
Quote from: MX793 on December 07, 2021, 11:49:58 AM
How much stuff broke and how much would it have cost without the extended warranty?
I throw away all my service records so I don't remember exactly. Off the top of my head: rear wheel bearing, low range 4WD (an expensive fix if I remember), catalytic converter (probably fixed for free without extended warranty), and something leaking under the engine bay (twice, same problem). I know this doesn't tell you anything but whatever it was, it was fixed and I got a free loaner Infiniti, and I didn't have to fight for anything. Stress free experience. The car has been reliable. I'm not sure if I recouped the $4 thousand dollar investment in the extended warranty but I never worried about a potential (oh shit, this is a $5 thousand dollar fix) which is not uncommon with high mileage luxury make SUVs.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 07, 2021, 11:54:51 AM
Clearly, you've never been a GM customer...
GM is known for screwing people on stuff that a manufacturer sponsored warranty should cover? I never experienced that with my Infiniti.
My Dad only buys GM, Ford, or Chrysler/Dodge to this day (living in Ann Arbor during the 1960s I guess does that to you). We had a '71 Chevy Nova, an '84 Chevy Celebrity, an '87 Buick Regal, and since I left home he's gotten a few other Chevys (Malibu and Equinox). I loved my Buick Enclave (especially it's shiny chrome) and it was a great price. But yeah I don't think they're built to go 200,000 miles. I think the Tahoe, Yukon, Suburbans and Silverado's are built to last but GM's large body on frame SUVs are stupidly priced IMHO. Plus their third row has always had your knees up to your chest except for this latest generation.
Quote from: veeman on December 07, 2021, 12:45:17 PM
GM is known for screwing people on stuff that a manufacturer sponsored warranty should cover? I never experienced that with my Infiniti.
My Dad only buys GM, Ford, or Chrysler/Dodge to this day (living in Ann Arbor during the 1960s I guess does that to you). We had a '71 Chevy Nova, an '84 Chevy Celebrity, an '87 Buick Regal, and since I left home he's gotten a few other Chevys (Malibu and Equinox). I loved my Buick Enclave (especially it's shiny chrome) and it was a great price. But yeah I don't think they're built to go 200,000 miles. I think the Tahoe, Yukon, Suburbans and Silverado's are built to last but GM's large body on frame SUVs are stupidly priced IMHO. Plus their third row has always had your knees up to your chest except for this latest generation.
Every single GM car my mother and wife ever owned had something go bad that "should have been replaced under warranty but wasn't" for any number of reasons, and the times when the warranty did cover things, they acted like they were doing you a favor.
There's also a reason why I, having worked in or connected to the automotive industry in the Detroit area most of my life, bought a Toyota.
Let's just say there's nobody walking around at Toyota with a copy of "The Stellantis/FCA/Cerberus/DaimlerChrysler Production System" on their bookshelf.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 07, 2021, 01:07:36 PM
There's also a reason why I, having worked in or connected to the automotive industry in the Detroit area most of my life, bought a Toyota.
Let's just say there's nobody walking around at Toyota with a copy of "The Stellantis/FCA/Cerberus/DaimlerChrysler Production System" on their bookshelf.
Wasn't there some story about Toyota buying and tearing apart a Neon and being impressed by how Chrysler had managed to engineer something that could be so cheaply manufactured?
Quote from: MX793 on December 07, 2021, 11:49:58 AM
How much stuff broke and how much would it have cost without the extended warranty?
Oh I also remember one more thing. This really stood out. My battery died and for some reason I had trouble jumping it with my other car. I'm usually always able to jump a dead battery but this one wouldn't jump. So I called a local Infiniti dealership I didn't buy the car from (the dealership I bought the car from was over an hour's drive away). I asked them if I could call a tow truck to bring the car to them. They said that since I had my extended Infiniti warranty, just call the number and Infiniti arranges the towing to them and it's free. That was cool.
Quote from: MX793 on December 07, 2021, 01:11:41 PM
Wasn't there some story about Toyota buying and tearing apart a Neon and being impressed by how Chrysler had managed to engineer something that could be so cheaply manufactured?
Probably. There are many similar stories to that. I don't necessarily believe all of them, but what I am involved in quite frequently is bidding for supplier contracts. All manufacturers have standards you have to meet to make parts for them. Toyota's are quite frankly a step above everybody else's. Sometimes its in things that don't even seem to matter, but they're unwavering on suppliers meeting them.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 07, 2021, 01:04:42 PM
Every single GM car my mother and wife ever owned had something go bad that "should have been replaced under warranty but wasn't" for any number of reasons, and the times when the warranty did cover things, they acted like they were doing you a favor.
I also trust Toyota most after working with nearly every OEM in some capacity. They're so much more thorough in their validation, testing, and overall approach.
If a Prius had a manual transmission option, I would daily drive that car as my back and forth to work car. Bullet proof engineering, incredible efficiency, great price. I like the newest generation weird styling too.
Quote from: veeman on December 07, 2021, 02:14:43 PM
If a Prius had a manual transmission option, I would daily drive that car as my back and forth to work car. Bullet proof engineering, incredible efficiency, great price. I like the newest generation weird styling too.
Can't have that. Half of the brilliance of the Prius is the E-CVT. The other half is some kind of marketing shit.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 07, 2021, 01:38:54 PM
Probably. There are many similar stories to that. I don't necessarily believe all of them, but what I am involved in quite frequently is bidding for supplier contracts. All manufacturers have standards you have to meet to make parts for them. Toyota's are quite frankly a step above everybody else's. Sometimes its in things that don't even seem to matter, but they're unwavering on suppliers meeting them.
I've heard from people who work for companies that supply parts to the auto industry that Chrysler's acceptance standards are some of the most lax. More willing to accept stuff with minor defects.
Quote from: MX793 on December 07, 2021, 02:23:33 PM
I've heard from people who work for companies that supply parts to the auto industry that Chrysler's acceptance standards are some of the most lax. More willing to accept stuff with minor defects.
You don't even need to hear that from parts suppliers just open a door on a new Stellantos product for verification.
Quote from: MX793 on December 07, 2021, 02:23:33 PM
I've heard from people who work for companies that supply parts to the auto industry that Chrysler's acceptance standards are some of the most lax. More willing to accept stuff with minor defects.
They'll still send back the defects they find; they don't find as many though. And when they do, they just send it back.
Where other manufacturers will follow up with investigations on how the defect made it to the customer, and verify the supplier institutes a process to prevent it from happening again.